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Parler Sues Amazon For Site Takedown, Alleges Antitrust Violations 339

Social networking service Parler sued Amazon on Monday, accusing its web hosting service of breaking anti-trust laws in taking off the platform that is popular with many right-leaning social media users. You can read the court document here.
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Parler Sues Amazon For Site Takedown, Alleges Antitrust Violations

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  • Marketing stunt (Score:5, Informative)

    by morcego ( 260031 ) on Monday January 11, 2021 @01:08PM (#60926994)

    That is not how antitrust laws work.
    This is 100% a marketing stunt.

    PS: Yes, I AM a lawyer with a masters in constitutional law. No, this is not legal advice, since you didn't pay me.

    • by Synonymous Cowered ( 6159202 ) on Monday January 11, 2021 @01:14PM (#60927048)

      No, this is not a marketing stunt. Much like all of their service providers, Parler's lawyers have abandoned them too ( https://www.theverge.com/2021/... [theverge.com] ). This lawsuit is what happens when you have to resort to hiring Lionel Hutz for legal counsel.

    • Ok, we didn't pay you. But I would be interested in some analysis to back up "this is not how antitrust laws work."

      (IANAL, but the antitrust argument does seem to be weak, as it would require evidence of a "cabal" between AWS and Twitter.)

      • Re:Marketing stunt (Score:5, Informative)

        by morcego ( 260031 ) on Monday January 11, 2021 @01:21PM (#60927114)

        It is only possible to have an issue if you can show monopoly practices. Thus, you could, very weakly, make an antitrust case between facebook and twitter for cancelled accounts.
        On the other hand, AWS service is a completely different issue. It is like alleging anti competitive practices between a gas station and a bakery.
        Because that is the hearth of the antitrust laws: to stop anticompetitive practices that lead to monopolies.
        No yeah, nothing to do with AWS.
        Also, since they were booted for repeated and clear violations of terms of service that are both legally sound and are not restrictive of otherwise permissive actions, the motivation for the boot is clearly demonstrated. For they to have an antitrust case regarding facebook and twitter they would have to show that those terms had the direct intent or indirect result of reducing competition. Which they clearly are not.

        I'm sorry if I'm being vague. I'm trying my best to avoid lawyer-speak.

        • by PolygamousRanchKid ( 1290638 ) on Monday January 11, 2021 @01:29PM (#60927192)

          'm sorry if I'm being vague. I'm trying my best to avoid lawyer-speak.

          Well, this being Slashdot . . . it might help if you tried to use a car analogy.

          Then again . . . it might not help, either.

        • by PPH ( 736903 )

          It is only possible to have an issue if you can show monopoly practices.

          No. Restraint of trade stands on its own, separate from monopolization.

          • Yeah, I'm kind of doubting that Mr Morcego is indeed a lawyer.

            • Yeah, I'm kind of doubting that Mr Morcego is indeed a lawyer.

              The law is a big profession with many specialties. A patent lawyer may know surprisingly little about, say, real estate law. Sorta like expecting a brain surgeon to be an expert on toenail fungus.

          • by cusco ( 717999 )

            There's no 'restraint of trade' by refusing to do business with Parler, there are literally dozens of other cloud services they could use, including Ali Baba's. AWS is just the largest.

        • Also, since they were booted for repeated and clear violations of terms of service that are both legally sound and are not restrictive of otherwise permissive actions, the motivation for the boot is clearly demonstrated

          fwiw Parler is also claiming that AWS violated the contract even if Parler was in violation of the terms of service, because apparently the contract says they have 30 days to remedy any violations upon being notified of them. (I'm not going to read AWS terms to see if that's true).

          • by Cyberax ( 705495 )

            fwiw Parler is also claiming that AWS violated the contract

            Quite possible. And they might get something in damages (likely not much). But what does antitrust have to do with this?

        • On the other hand, AWS service is a completely different issue.

          Twitter is a competitor to Parler who hosts many threatening and hateful posts (google for many examples, including Hamas and the Iranian government).

          Amazon dropped Parler but not twitter, Parler has not been convicted of violating any crime.

          It *seems* like a breach of contract, and it also seems like dropping them without a 30-day notice is also a breach of contract. All of this is spelled out in the Sherman act.

          This all seems anticompetitive on its face.

          • From AWS Customer Agreement:

            6.1 Generally. We may suspend your or any End User’s right to access or use any portion or all of the Service Offerings immediately upon notice to you if we determine:

            (a) your or an End User’s use of the Service Offerings (i) poses a security risk to the Service Offerings or any third party, (ii) could adversely impact our systems, the Service Offerings or the systems or Content of any other AWS customer, (iii) could subject us, our affiliates, or any third party to liability, or (iv) could be fraudulent;

            (b) you are, or any End User is, in breach of this Agreement;

            (c) you are in breach of your payment obligations under Section 5; or

            (d) you have ceased to operate in the ordinary course, made an assignment for the benefit of creditors or similar disposition of your assets, or become the subject of any bankruptcy, reorganization, liquidation, dissolution or similar proceeding.

            ...

            7. Term; Termination.
            7.1 Term. The term of this Agreement will commence on the Effective Date and will remain in effect until terminated under this Section 7. Any notice of termination of this Agreement by either party to the other must include a Termination Date that complies with the notice periods in Section 7.2.

            7.2 Termination.

            (a) Termination for Convenience. You may terminate this Agreement for any reason by providing us notice and closing your account for all Services for which we provide an account closing mechanism. We may terminate this Agreement for any reason by providing you at least 30 days’ advance notice.

            (b) Termination for Cause.

            (i) By Either Party. Either party may terminate this Agreement for cause if the other party is in material breach of this Agreement and the material breach remains uncured for a period of 30 days from receipt of notice by the other party. No later than the Termination Date, you will close your account.

            (ii) By Us. We may also terminate this Agreement immediately upon notice to you (A) for cause if we have the right to suspend under Section 6, (B) if our relationship with a third-party partner who provides software or other technology we use to provide the Service Offerings expires, terminates or requires us to change the way we provide the software or other technology as part of the Services, or (C) in order to comply with the law or requests of governmental entities.

            I bolded the relevant sections. This could be interpreted as: We can suspend your account because you and/or your end users "poses a (physical) security risk to ... any third party". And then... "we may also terminate your account immediately because we were able to suspend your account and we wanted to".

            Additionally, folks agree to the Acceptable Use Policy which states

            You may not use, or encourage, promote, facilitate or instruct others to use, the Services or AWS Site for any illegal, harmful, fraudulent, infringing or offensive use, or to transmit, store, display, distribute or otherwise make available content that is illegal, harmful, fraudulent, infringing or offensive.

            A lawyer could probably argue that by Parler having their completely hands off moderation policies, there

    • It's hard to imagine how any company that willingly signs a contract for hosting and then through willful action or at least complete inaction, violates that contract, can then declare that the hosting company is abusing antitrust law. It's not like Amazon is the only hosting platform out there; either in the US, or elsewhere. It sure seems like a stunt, but you would think a company serious about staying afloat would, at this point, dedicate its resources to getting itself online. It's almost as if Parler'

      • by cusco ( 717999 )

        so they could launch just such a suit

        They're probably hoping AWS will pay them to go away. Not bloody likely to work, which is why they had to go to a quack to file the suit.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by magzteel ( 5013587 )

      That is not how antitrust laws work.
      This is 100% a marketing stunt.

      PS: Yes, I AM a lawyer with a masters in constitutional law. No, this is not legal advice, since you didn't pay me.

      Did you read the complaint?

      • Re:Marketing stunt (Score:5, Informative)

        by morcego ( 260031 ) on Monday January 11, 2021 @01:26PM (#60927178)

        That is not how antitrust laws work.
        This is 100% a marketing stunt.

        PS: Yes, I AM a lawyer with a masters in constitutional law. No, this is not legal advice, since you didn't pay me.

        Did you read the complaint?

        The first 4 pages, including "NATURE OF THE ACTION", which are enough to show minimum legal grounds.
        I know we are on slashdot, but I wouldn't have commented without reading at least that much.

    • Re:Marketing stunt (Score:5, Interesting)

      by BeerFartMoron ( 624900 ) on Monday January 11, 2021 @01:25PM (#60927158)
      Pot, this is Kettle. You both have something in common [archive.org].

      9. Parler may remove any content and terminate your access to the Services at any time and for any reason to the extent Parler reasonably believes (a) you have violated these Terms or Parler’s Community Guidelines, (b) you create risk or possible legal exposure for Parler, or (c) you are otherwise engaging in unlawful conduct—although Parler endeavors to allow all free speech that is lawful and does not infringe the legal rights of others. Any invitation made by Parler to you to use the Services or submit content to the Services, or the fact that Parler may receive a benefit from your use of the Services or provision of content to the Services, will not obligate Parler to maintain any content or maintain your access to the Services. Parler will have no liability to you for removing any content, for terminating your access to the Services, or for modifying or terminating the Services.

    • That is not how antitrust laws work.

      This is the best explanation you could give as a Constitutional law expert?

    • Obviously IANAL as well as 99.99% of the posters here, but it was news to me that AWS has a contract to host Twitter. To treat Parler's competitor so differently, certainly seems fairly serious:

      AWS’s decision to effectively terminate Parler’s account is ... apparently designed to reduce competition in the microblogging services market to the benefit of Twitter ...Thus, AWS is violating Section 1 of the Sherman Antitrust Act in combination with Defendant Twitter.

      There's a claimed breach of contra

    • by PPH ( 736903 )

      Restraint of trade (originally common law) is codified in the Sherman Act. That's separate from monopolization. But also a felony. Not a good position for Amazon to be in if they expect to bid for a government contract.

      • by cusco ( 717999 )

        Restraint of trade would only come into effect if they somehow managed to convince the other hundreds of cloud hosting companies out there to also refuse to do business with Parler. (IINAL, but that's my understanding of the phrase.) I'm sure Tencent would love to host them.

    • 30 seconds of reading the definition of what 'anti-trust' means in this context is enough to tell you that.
      This 'Parler' is being removed by companies for moral and ethical reasons, not because they have some competing service or product they want to promote instead.
      As typical for Trump sycophants they're attempting to distort the truth and attempting to distort reality because truth and reality don't suit/serve them.
      Their behavior amounts to bald-faced anarchy.
      • 30 seconds of reading the definition of what 'anti-trust' means in this context is enough to tell you that.

        This 'Parler' is being removed by companies for moral and ethical reasons, not because they have some competing service or product they want to promote instead.

        As typical for Trump sycophants they're attempting to distort the truth and attempting to distort reality because truth and reality don't suit/serve them.

        Their behavior amounts to bald-faced anarchy.

        30 seconds of reading the suit tells you they claim AWS is applying their "moral and ethical" standards inconsistently, and they violated their contract terms regarding the termination notice.

    • since you didn't pay me.

      Parler is not going to pay anyone after Amazon presents them with their bill for all the data usage. All those database downloads will have massively increased their data-out charges.

      Parler is likely going to be bankrupt and abandoned by its sponsors very soon.

  • Any good analysis out there already on the merits of the suit? I doubt many readers (myself included) have the qualifications to read the filing and come to an informed conclusion.
    • by DarkOx ( 621550 )

      I was expecting a lot of contract interference suits and reflated litigation. This will be interesting to see how this plays out.

      Its worth noting the ultimate politics of this are not settled. Decidedly non-Trump-y voices like Angela Merkel have not been friendly to big tech's response to all this. Has what Angela Merkel thinks anything to do with US law - of course not, but the left wing talking heads in this county (any you can make similar criticism of the right's punditry) have a strong tendency to eng

    • Re:Analysis? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by im_thatoneguy ( 819432 ) on Monday January 11, 2021 @01:22PM (#60927138)

      Hot air. GCloud and Azure are both perfectly acceptable alternatives. And unlike Apple, customers can simply move their content to another host.

      Their best shot at winning a lawsuit IMO (not a lawyer) is the Epic vs Apple lawsuit. Since Apple customers can't install an alternative app store, Apple has an obligation to provide a way to sideload.

      • Except Epic v Apple doesn't apply to terrorist content.

      • Except Parler's owners know perfectly well that neither Alphabet or Microsoft are going to let them on their hosting platforms. It's doubtful any of the second tier hosting companies (many of which are just resellers of AWS and Azure anyways) are going to let Parler on board. Sure, there's probably some basement-dwelling CHUD MAGA type out there with a cluster of Raspberry PIs who will happily host them, but Parler needs a lot more infrastructure than that. Assuming this lawsuit fails (and it's likely too,

    • Any good analysis out there already on the merits of the suit? I doubt many readers (myself included) have the qualifications to read the filing and come to an informed conclusion.

      I'm not a lawyer, but nothing there smells like a valid anti-trust case. The document makes it sounds as if AZN and Twitter are in collusion somewhat. The first example they give is that AWS hasn't banned Twitter for some tweets that say 'Hang Mike Pence', but it doesn't provide a differentiation of the context in which these tweets were made.

      OTH, we know for a fact that people used Parler to incite a riot and even murder. We know for a fact that Twitter has banned similar content in the past (the very re

    • Parler is alleging that there was collusion between AWS and Twitter. Here is what they present as evidence of collusion [courtlistener.com]:

      Less than a month ago, AWS and Parler’s competitor, Twitter,
      entered into a multi-year deal. Late Friday evening, Twitter banned President
      Trump from using its platform, thereby driving enormous numbers of its users to
      Parler. Twenty-four hours later, AWS announced it would indefinitely suspend
      Parler’s account.
      AWS’s reasons for doing so are not consistent with its treatment of
      Twitter, indicating a desire to harm Parler.

      As evidence of inconsistent treatment, they point out that "Hang Mike Pence" was trending on Twitter, and AWS did nothing to stop it.

      As to whether they will win or not, of course Parler makes their case look as good as possible, based on existing law and the evidence they presented. If that's all there were, they would absolutely win. Fortunately in the courts, each side gets to present t

      • I've noticed a lot of MAGAs taking Parler and Twitter out of context, and then claiming it was disparate treatment. On Parler, you have a lawyer closely aligned with the President calling for Mike Pence to be executed for treason. On Twitter, you have people going "OMG, President's lawyer wants Pence hung!" In both cases the hashtag could be the same, but obvious the content of the message is very different.

        This slight of hand argumentation will work fine for creating flamewars on social media, but I don't

  • You can't throw a rock without hitting a hosting provider, so not a monopoly. In terms of collusion sometimes you really don't need it and there's nothing illegal about various entities deciding independently to stop platforming some specific group.

    But desperate grifters gonna do grifting thing. They'd have a gofundme up to fleece people if they could, but it would probably be taken down and I doubt many credit card processors will help them fleece the suckers either.

    • While it is true that there are lots of hosting providers, they will still have a lot of trouble finding one. Hosting provides don't want the "notorious". They don't host spammers not because they don't want their money, but because they don't want the blow-back (and DOS attacks) that come from hosting spammers.

      This would be even worse. Host them, and a vendor risks getting cut-off from their transit vendors. Off-shore is about the only choice that is left.

      • I'm sure some Russian provider will happily provide Parler with some hosting, providing it has nice back door access to user accounts, so it can gain the details of the most dedicated would-be insurrectionists. A sort of hand delivered Fifth Column. Heck, most of them have so thoroughly bought into Russia's newest version of the Protocols of Elders of Zion, this seems like a match made in heaven (or more accurately, in hell).

    • by DarkOx ( 621550 )

      Bullshit. To host something like Parler you need enormous capacity and things like DDOS protection you can actually only get for a handful of operators at least if you want to stay domestic.

    • You only say "fleece" because your on the other side of the political isle.
  • Those who can, do.

    Those who can't, sue.

  • The latest victim is Ron Paul [twitter.com]

  • Read the complaint! (Score:5, Informative)

    by magzteel ( 5013587 ) on Monday January 11, 2021 @01:26PM (#60927172)

    As usual people are throwing out opinions without having read the complaint first. They may have a case

    NATURE OF THE ACTION
    1. This is a civil action for injunctive relief, including a temporary
    restraining order and preliminary injunctive relief, and damages. Last Month,
    Defendant Amazon Web Services, Inc. (“AWS”) and the popular social media
    platform Twitter signed a multi-year deal so that AWS could support the daily
    delivery of millions of tweets. AWS currently provides that same service to Parler,
    a conservative microblogging alternative and competitor to Twitter.
    2. When Twitter announced two evenings ago that it was permanently
    banning President Trump from its platform, conservative users began to flee
    Twitter en masse for Parler. The exodus was so large that the next day, yesterday,
    Parler became the number one free app downloaded from Apple’s App Store.
    3. Yet last evening, AWS announced that it would suspend Parler’s
    account effective Sunday, January 10th, at 11:59 PM PST. And it stated the reason
    for the suspension was that AWS was not confident Parler could properly police its
    platform regarding content that encourages or incites violence against others.
    However, Friday night one of the top trending tweets on Twitter was “Hang Mike
    Pence.” But AWS has no plans nor has it made any threats to suspend Twitter’s
    account.
    4. AWS’s decision to effectively terminate Parler’s account is apparently
    motivated by political animus. It is also apparently designed to reduce competition
    in the microblogging services market to the benefit of Twitter.
    5. Thus, AWS is violating Section 1 of the Sherman Antitrust Act in
    combination with Defendant Twitter. AWS is also breaching it contract with
    Parler, which requires AWS to provide Parler with a thirty-day notice before
    terminating service, rather than the less than thirty-hour notice AWS actually
    provided. Finally, AWS is committing intentional interference with prospective
    economic advantage given the millions of users expected to sign up in the near
    future.
    6. This emergency suit seeks a Temporary Restraining Order against
    Defendant Amazon Web Services to prevent it from shutting down Parler’s account
    at the end of today. Doing so is the equivalent of pulling the plug on a hospital
    patient on life support. It will kill Parler’s business—at the very time it is set to
    skyrocket.

    • by leonbev ( 111395 )

      Hmm... I guess that Parler got themselves some new lawyers. I thought that their existing legal council quit along with the rest of their vendors?

    • I wonder if they read the Terms of Service -> 1.4. In connection with your use of the Services, you are responsible for maintaining licenses and adhering to the license terms of any software you run. If we reasonably believe any of Your Content violates the law, infringes or misappropriates the rights of any third party, or otherwise violates a material term of the Agreement (including the documentation, the Service Terms, or the Acceptable Use Policy) (“Prohibited Content”), we will notify
    • by Ed Tice ( 3732157 ) on Monday January 11, 2021 @02:09PM (#60927508)
      I am not a lawyer but this reads like a political commentary not a lawsuit. How does it matter whether AWS suspended Twitter or not? The question is whether Parler violated the terms of service. Would they consider it an appropriate remedy if AWS also suspended Twitter?! Could the lawyers who filed this be sanctioned?
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by klipclop ( 6724090 ) on Monday January 11, 2021 @01:33PM (#60927218)
    Some on Slashdot (another article) made a good observation that a bakery won in the Supreme Court that they can refuse service to anyone they see fit based on their personal ideologies. So it seems like some very stupid short-term thinking caused this to boomerang back with some unintended consequences.
    • My understanding in this case is that the ruling was narrower than that. A baker can refuse to decorate a cake with a pro-gay message or symbolism, but he doesn't have some unilateral right to refuse to serve a gay person. But that doesn't help Parler's defenders. Sure, Amazon won't likely refuse to sell hosting space to a N@zi, but if that N@zi tries to host jewsinovens.com or uses his site to promote or plan an insurrection, Amazon, like the cake baker, can say "Nope, not on my property."

    • Some on Slashdot (another article) made a good observation that a bakery won in the Supreme Court that they can refuse service to anyone they see fit based on their personal ideologies. So it seems like some very stupid short-term thinking caused this to boomerang back with some unintended consequences.

      The Masterpiece Bakery case hinged on freedom of religion. The baker felt that his religious beliefs were incompatible with creating a custom work for a gay wedding. He was fine with selling anything else they wanted, and of course there was n issue with them seeking the services of another baker. There certainly was no financial loss or injury to the client.

      How are you comparing that case to one where Parler has a paid services contract to host their business on AWS, one of the largest hosting services

      • Agreed when amazon the corporation can successful prove what church the corporation has joined they can they attempt an argument based on freedom of religion.

    • Some on Slashdot (another article) made a good observation that a bakery won in the Supreme Court that they can refuse service to anyone they see fit based on their personal ideologies.

      Yeah, but is it a gay insurrection cake?

  • Now that parlor is the only place lefties can go to get their rage-on, parlor business will boom. People on both side WANT to be outraged, and if since twitter is banning everyone on the other side, the only place lefties can be outraged is on alt sites.
  • If only the right wing populists had inventors and makers of technology. Right now the biggest inventor they have is the MyPillow guy.

    • If only the right wing populists had inventors and makers of technology. Right now the biggest inventor they have is the MyPillow guy.

      You mean like the guys who invented Parler? It's hard to grow a business under these circumstances.

      • Apparently it's just some stock PHP software. I don't think editing a config file qualifies as "building" in the context of developing some new technology.

  • by GodWasAnAlien ( 206300 ) on Monday January 11, 2021 @02:34PM (#60927702)

    Unless AWS conspired with Twitter (either privately or publicly), there is likely no legal remedy for parler.

    But the direction in general is very dangerous.

    Mobs, right wing or left wing are dangerous.

    But the most dangerous, is a corporate mob.

    Here, corporations collectively make decisions of what is allowed. What speech, discussions, what protests. Not by any law. Not even by internal rules. But instead by selective enforcement of any such rules.

    Once the corporate collective has decided, it may "cancel" an individual or a company.

    The corporate peer pressure comes from other companies and prevailing thought. It does not come from any elected official, and representative, and is not governed by any judge or jury.

    There is no recourse for the cancelled party because there is no major company left to turn to.

    Of course you still have "free speech", you are free to build your own social networking, cloud infrastructure and mobile operating system.

    If the corporate mob is on your side, you may be happy.

    But it will likely not always be on your side.

Keep up the good work! But please don't ask me to help.

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