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Microsoft Privacy

Microsoft Also Patented Tech to Score Meetings Using Filmed Body Language, Facial Expressions (geekwire.com) 78

Posted by EditorDavid from the I'll-be-seeing-you dept.
Remember when Microsoft was criticized for enabling "workplace surveillance" over "productivity scores" in its Microsoft 365 office software which gave managers highly detailed profiles of each individual employee's activity. Long-time Slashdot reader theodp writes: The Microsoft 365 Productivity Score apparently has roots in another Microsoft patent application for Systems, Methods, and Software for Implementing a Behavior Change Management Program, which also lays out plans for as yet unimplemented features to automatically schedule hundreds of employees for months of productivity re-education, including preventing employees from scheduling meetings with others if the service deems it counter-productive. So, could the HAL 9000's "I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that" be considered prior art?
But Microsoft "has even bigger ideas for using technology to monitor workers in the interest of maximizing organizational productivity," reports GeekWire: Newly surfaced Microsoft patent filings describe a system for deriving and predicting "overall quality scores" for meetings using data such as body language, facial expressions, room temperature, time of day, and number of people in the meeting. The system uses cameras, sensors, and software tools to determine, for example, "how much a participant contributes to a meeting vs performing other tasks (e.g., texting, checking email, browsing the Internet)."

The "meeting insight computing system" would then predict the likelihood that a group will hold a high-quality meeting. It would flag potential challenges when an organizer is setting the meeting up, and recommend alternative venues, times, or people to include in the meeting, for example... A patent application made public Nov. 12 notes, "many organizations are plagued by overly long, poorly attended, and recurring meetings that could be modified and/or avoided if more information regarding meeting quality was available." The approach would apply to in-person and virtual meetings, and hybrids of the two...

The filings do not detail any potential privacy safeguards. A Microsoft spokesperson declined to comment on the patent filings in response to GeekWire's inquiry. To be sure, patents are not products, and there's no sign yet that Microsoft plans to roll out this hypothetical system. Microsoft has established an internal artificial intelligence ethics office and a companywide committee to ensure that its AI products live by its principles of responsible AI, including transparency and privacy. However, the filings are a window into the ideas floating around inside Microsoft, and they're consistent with the direction the company is already heading.
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Microsoft Also Patented Tech to Score Meetings Using Filmed Body Language, Facial Expressions More

Microsoft Also Patented Tech to Score Meetings Using Filmed Body Language, Facial Expressions

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  • Good (Score:5, Interesting)

    by nospam007 ( 722110 ) * on Sunday November 29, 2020 @02:51PM (#60776358)

    So the AI sees that everybody hates the boss even if nobody says a word.

    • Re: Good (Score:5, Interesting)

      by BarbaraHudson ( 3785311 ) <barbara.jane.hud ... minus physicist> on Sunday November 29, 2020 @03:21PM (#60776426) Journal
      Can imagine how it would have scored Stephen Hawking.

      "Wooden, doesn't engage, just sits there."

      'seems this is not only illegal discrimination against the handicapped under the ADA, but that ass-kissers will learn how to game it pretty quickly. Expect more shouting, gestilation, histrion, abuse, etc

      Another prop to enable poor managers to justify their jobs.. Because actually measuring the things that count requires REAL intelligence, as well as motivation,and understanding, none of which an AI possesses.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Cederic ( 9623 )

        Nice example.

        I'd also throw in everybody that's autistic. "You need to smile more" is a fucking fantastic way to stop me feeling relaxed and content.

      • "'seems this is not only illegal discrimination against the handicapped under the ADA, but that ass-kissers will learn how to game it pretty quickly. Expect more shouting, gestilation, histrion, abuse, etc "

        The word you're looking for is Crystal Meth.
        Ok 2 words.

    • Yeah, this would murder my manager.

      She's so awkward and stilted, her meetings are painful to sit through, and she has the emotional range of a robot made from a brick.

      For example, I wished her a happy thanksgiving in an email on Wednesday before I took off, and this was her full response:

      "Thank you"

      That was it- no "you too!" or "have a nice thanksgiving" or "enjoy the holiday"...nothing. ZERO.

      To her it was merely a communication that must be replied to, like a transmission handshake, nothing more. I'm sure

    • It also registers the vinegar face of Jeffrey Toobin as he rubs one out.
    • No no no no no! Even if it's for analytical data and it's "anonymized" can you imagine if they used the camera to monitor your face even in voice only calls? Two meetings and I'd be sacked based on eye-rolling alone!

  • Solution (Score:3)

    by lessSockMorePuppet ( 6778792 ) on Sunday November 29, 2020 @02:54PM (#60776364) Homepage

    Ban meetings.

    IME, the only people who call formal meetings are management, and it's always scheduled when their ego needs some stroking, or they want to pontificate for 4 hours.

    Those of us doing the actual work just lean over and say, "hey, would you mind taking a look at something when you get a moment?"

    • Meetings are called by people who aren't literate enough to compose a coherent email.

      • Meetings are called by people who aren't literate enough to compose a coherent email.

        Meetings are called because employees don't read emails.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by rtb61 ( 674572 )

      Ijiot, this technology is not just for meetings it is for all of the time, not only facial recognition but monitoring your behaviour, ALL OF THE TIME. Look wrong at a boss, your employment is over, all of them time. Only M$ could be so sick.

    • Take drugs. Employee active, revved up - bright eyed bushy tail, I can see the AI rewarding liars, actors, con-men, who lack the technical talent to DO. On this subject, if we filmed Parliament/Congress - what would it make of our politicians performances. It is not novel to micromanage, see Pavlov's dogs and London sweat shops. Taiwan once removed desk phones, before portable mobiles were invented. The time/cost/quality triangle remains - pick any two. A pig wearing lipstick, or in an Amarni suit, is stil

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Cederic ( 9623 )

      Riight.

      So you don't like to work collaboratively with a diverse group of people to solve a problem? That's a meeting.

      You don't understand the benefits of providing an in-person explanation of something to multiple people at once? That's a meeting.

      You can't comprehend the political necessity of getting someone to say something in front of witnesses? That's a meeting.

      You don't want to engage socially with a group of your peers and build strong working relationships? That's a meeting.

      Shit, I'm fucking autistic

      • No, you're autistic and decided to lump all forms of social interaction at work into "meeting".

        Hint: they're not all meetings.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Cederic ( 9623 )

          No, I engage socially in other ways at work too. I do some of the things I mentioned outside of meetings too.

          I also do them in meetings. Because a scheduled interaction between a group of people can add value to all involved.

          If you can't understand that then it's not my fucking autism that's the problem.

  • Time to disable the webcam and the microphones.

    But the only way to be sure, other than nuking your work laptop from orbit, is to put black tape over the webcam.

    • Tape, and plug a dead microphone into the mic port.

      Or just threaten to quit. If you're appreciated, you'll win. If you don't, why not go where you are appreciated? The pandemic has made competent IT people in a good bargaining position - work from home, flex time, more money, and lots of competition looking to hire.

      • I think most of us need to, at some point, speak in these meetings, so I maybe just a microphone with an actual on-off switch in the cord or on the headset.

        • And an actual "ON vs OFF" switch, not those stupid "press-to-switch-state" button that you never have any way of knowing in which state it's in.

  • Glad I'm getting out of the ratrace in a few years. Shit's getting ridiculous.

    • Same here. A few more years until retirement and I'm done. (Unless, that is, some fool is willing to pay my insanely high consulting fees.)

      But yeah, aside from that I'm glad to be getting out of the workforce.

      • Covid is THE golden opportunity to hit employers up for better working conditions. Everyone is short of tech.

      • Got out alive (retired) in 2019.

        Stuff like this finished me off:

        Callout at 0400, critical mainframe system stalled, OK, I've got 2 hours to sort it before 0600 SLA kicks in. No problems...but I've got to get permission to reload the stalled CICS services (mainframe online servers for those who don't know).
        So...we need to have a conference call, with about 20 people on it, and discuss it for four hours before I can fix the problem. Now it's an SLA violation. Massive financial penalties. A whole day doing a '

  • Can we have unions NOW! for office work? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Joe_Dragon ( 2206452 ) on Sunday November 29, 2020 @03:06PM (#60776394)

    Can we have unions NOW! for office work?

    • Tech workers have employers over the barrel. The options are either outsourcing to Mumbai and never getting anything done or better working conditions because everyone has a serious case of skilled manpower shorts. -

      Strike while the iron is hit. And no, things will not return to whatever passed for normal before. There's simply too much money to be saved on office space, facilities maintenance, and wasted travel time. -

      Plus it's a great opportunity to get rid of ineffective managers who think counting bum

    • You can if you can get enough of your co-workers to agree with you. However, at the places I have worked over the last 20+ years it would not have helped me. I have been able, at many turns, to negotiate for the specific things that helped my situation at that point in time. More money at several points along the road, more time off at others, telecommuting at various times when they were not so keen on it, out of cycle promotions, change of boss once. Most of this was at a Fortune 100 corporation. The unio

  • Just in case I was on the fence about going to a meeting, this would be just the enticement I would need to convince me to go because who doesn't want every little movement analysed, every facial muscle movement 2nd guessed by a computer which I'm sure is infallible and would never get it wrong. / sarc

    • "Science says Vitamin D is COVID-19 prevention and cure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]"

      No, science does NOT say that.

      It seems that there *might* be a connection between taking vitamin D and a *possible* "reduced likelihood" of becoming infected, but no study says it "prevents" or "cures" COVID-19. That's bullshit and you're an ass for spreading this crap.

      But feel free to take some vitamin D and go on a doorknob-licking frenzy if you like.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by MrL0G1C ( 867445 )

        Get a life, I can't fit the results of several papers into a sig. Watch the video. Or read the papers linked.

        COVID-19 deaths and adverse outcomes are mostly avoidable. If people have an MMR jab, are vitamin D and zinc sufficient and are getting a good amount of anti-oxidants then the odds are that they won't even notice they had COVID.

        The gov'ts and media have been completely shit at getting the facts straight.

        https://mbio.asm.org/content/1... [asm.org]
        https://www.sciencedirect.com/... [sciencedirect.com]
        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p.. [nih.gov]

        • Where's your Nobel Prize for discovering all this, and why aren't scientists saying, "Yeah, MrL0G1C figured it out, he's the shizzle!"?

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by MrL0G1C ( 867445 )

            All credit goes to this guy:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

            He's a bloody good researcher. It's a shame the right people don't listen to him.

            If you want to know 10x more than most people know about COVID then watch his videos. And don't go dismissing them without looking closely at what level of professional he is.

            • I don't disagree that he may be a good researcher etc etc etc etc etc, the point is that there's *no* proof that "Science says Vitamin D is COVID-19 prevention and cure". There isn't.

              It *MAY* help reduce infections, it *MAY* assist in recovery, but there's no actual proof whatsoever of that at this time. I personally hope he's right, but I'd like to see a consensus in the scientific community before claiming that "Science says Vitamin D is COVID-19 prevention and cure".

              After all, there were a bunch of peopl

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by MrL0G1C ( 867445 )

                It really depends, If you are vitamin D sufficient then you could easily get COVID and not even know. There is proof of this in papers. If you get COVID and they give you a large dose of calcifediol which is the activated form of vitamin D then you chances of ending up in ICU are drastically reduced (25x less likely), again, there is good science done to prove this.

                So it's not a huge stretch to say it is prevention and it is not a huge stretch to say it is a cure.

                At this point in time, the vast majority of

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Cederic ( 9623 )

            A number of studies indicate vitamin D might have a positive impact in protecting against COVID-19.

            -- https://www.gov.uk/government/... [www.gov.uk]

            In the meantime high levels of vitamin D are recognised as beneficial to general health so stop being a twat about it.

            • A number of studies indicate vitamin D might have a positive impact in protecting against COVID-19.

              I don't disagree, but that's a long, long way from "Science says Vitamin D is COVID-19 prevention and cure".

              So how about you stop being a twat and weighing in with your deflection bullshit.

  • Creepy beyond belief (Score:3)

    by Dutch Gun ( 899105 ) on Sunday November 29, 2020 @03:10PM (#60776404)

    Seriously, what sort of sociopath thinks these things up? You really need an AI to tell if a meeting is productive or not? If so, your organization is probably doomed anyway. Just let nature take its course.

    Keep in mind, though, that there's only the weakest correlation between what's filed in a patent and what a company actually plans to incorporate into its products. Lots of pie-in-the-sky nonsense gets patented that never sees the light of day. Honestly, this sounds so creepy and dystopian, I have a hard time imagining it would actually make it into a product.

    Would any of you voluntarily submit to being scanned and judged like this? I would likely quit before I allowed it, and I can't imagine I'd be alone.

    • Would any of you voluntarily submit to being scanned and judged like this? I would likely quit before I allowed it, and I can't imagine I'd be alone.

      Employment is usually not 100% voluntary, if all employers eventually adopt these practices and if you don't have the means to / don't have success at starting your own business, you'll need to choose between submitting to it or scraping out your own existence in a shack in the woods like the Unabomber.

    • Seriously, what sort of sociopath thinks these things up?

      Microsoft is the company that both tricked and forced people into downgrading to Windows 10 despite their express instructions to the contrary. And they're trying with some success to force everyone on their platforms into a rent-to-not-own model wherein both applications and users' files can be disappeared on a whim. Those actions sound pretty sociopathic to me.

      You really need an AI to tell if a meeting is productive or not? If so, your organization is probably doomed anyway.

      That depends on the size of the corporation. Inertia is a wondrous thing, and companies can survive and even thrive for many years in the state you

      • That depends on the size of the corporation. Inertia is a wondrous thing, and companies can survive and even thrive for many years in the state you just described.

        Oh sure, the biggest ones can last for decades feasting on their own rotting flesh. Doesn't mean they aren't still dying a slow death.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      This is why engineers need to take ethics classes.

      You can imagine how this happened. Manager says "I want to know if meetings need improvement". Without considering the ethics of the situation some programmer starts thinking about ways they can measure engagement at meetings. It doesn't occur to them that some people might have disabilities or health issues that need to be accounted for, it doesn't cross their mind that it is hugely invasive and probably illegal in some countries (e.g. Germany).

      We see this

  • Lol, no way. No fuckin' way.

    Just another of the many reasons I'd never, EVER work at Microsoft again.

  • Setting aside the whole "Big Brother" aspect of this...

    I've worked with a small number of actually good managers who would try to make meetings productive and cancel those which seemed pointless - they might actually endeavor to use this data as intended. However, most managers I've known would not see a low-scoring meeting as unnecessary or poorly-led; instead, they would almost certainly blame the attendees for letting themselves get distracted (I say this because I've seen it happen).

    A previous departmen

    • I'm working with someone like this. She setup a bunch of recurring meetings, but the meetings didn't evolve with the project. When I was brought on to help straighten things out, I tried politely pointing this out. But I was only partially successful at getting her to realign the meetings. I quietly told other team members to only have one person from their team/company dial in to help minimize productivity losses.

    • However, most managers I've known would not see a low-scoring meeting as unnecessary or poorly-led; instead, they would almost certainly blame the attendees for letting themselves get distracted (I say this because I've seen it happen).

      At my last place of employment, we had quarterly "pseudonymous" polls where corporate would ask us about our opinion on management (5 questions on global level, 3 questions on division level and 2 questions on direct manager) and our global job satisfaction. Corporate insisted on honest feedback as they "wanted to improve the company" (thinly veiled "rank and yank" for management).

      As a manager, being in the poll analysis meetings was physically painful. The local management would receive the aggregate resul

    • Re:Orwell would be proud. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Drishmung ( 458368 ) on Sunday November 29, 2020 @03:45PM (#60776484)
      “It was terribly dangerous to let your thoughts wander when you were in any public place or within range of a telescreen. The smallest thing could give you away. A nervous tic, an unconscious of anxiety, a habit of muttering to yourself__anything that carried the suggestion of abnormality, of having something to hide. In any case, to wear an improper expression on your face (to look incredulous when a victory was announced, for example) was itself a punishable offense. There was even a word for it in Newspeak: facecrime, it was called.”

      1984 George Orwell

  • The Meeting Opens (Score:5, Funny)

    by gtall ( 79522 ) on Sunday November 29, 2020 @04:07PM (#60776526)

    Chair: we begin this meeting to discuss the new Whizzy we are going to produce. I must warn you, we are using Microsoft's new technology to judge your reaction, attention span, etc. Yes, you in the back, you have question?

    Guy in Back: Sir, we're to be judged in how we conduct ourselves in this meeting by a Microsoft Bot?

    Chair: Yes, we expect it to become an useful management tool.

    Guy in Back: And it will interpret our body language?

    Chair: Yes, body language is a window onto your soul.

    Guy in Back: How does it interpret this gesture (holds middle finger up)?

    Chair: Uh, I don't know. It is connected to AI, let's ask it. Microsoft Bobbette, how did you interpret that gesture?

    M. Bobbette: Chair, I've taken down the vital information and would like to inform the gesturer that if he is willing, I"m ready to meet him after the meeting for a bit of frolicking and dirty dancing.

    Chair: Uh-oh. We'll be turning off the Microsoft technology for this meeting. Now, down to business.

  • If you flip the double bird in a meeting, is that considered bonus points, or a combo?

  • To start with, it seems to be begging for a discrimination lawsuit - given statistical differences in behavior in meetings and speech patterns by gender, ethnicity and age.

    Then there are people who will try to game the system by constantly interrupting in meetings in order to show that they are "participating".

    Then how does it rank people who are constantly making trivial comments from the person who sits in the back and at one point says "That alloy is susceptible to hydrogen entitlement which could cause

  • ... do you have to be to work on something like that?

    • @Hizonner [slashdot.org]: “So what kind of amoral piece of shit ... do you have to be to work on something like that?”

      billg [youtube.com] the human borg, here he is pretending to have written DOOM.
  • Lets monitor [nucleustechnologies.com] everyones online activity, lets video them while doing it, lets have more meetings.

  • Anyone else disappointed that MS won't be using AI to compose a score for meetings? Y'know, a light, airy overture at the start of the meeting, when the mood is optimistic, dropping to something ominous when Gary joins...

  • ... and they could detect cases of sleep apnea as well.

  • It's only a patent. Some researchers had an idea and there was some promising technology as a result, so the lawyers decided to patent it. Everyone was doing their job correctly here.

    Technology is neither inherentlt good nor evil. This has potential harmful uses, but it would have such uses if it wasn't patented. It might have potential benefits - perhaps for making meetings less tedious.

    Safeguards should be put into final implementations. Not patent applications.
    • Sometimes employers sneak spies/monitors/agents and even negotiators into meetings. Some are trained to recognize all tells, including flushes, blood pressure, pulses, blinks ect. These human experts are very good. Back at HR they snoop through emails for dirt. I won't be far wrong if this was done at least 700 years ago. You have lost when the groupthink / one pager's / those that only read the first 50 words of any email, and those who make upbeat generic comments, and action points to delegate.

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