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Government

Another California City Launches a Two-Year Guaranteed Income Program (msn.com) 136

The Los Angeles Times reports a new guaranteed income pilot program which within a few months "will begin giving 800 Compton residents free cash for a two-year period," according to mayor Aja Brown: So far, private donors have contributed $2.5 million to the Fund for Guaranteed Income, a charity headed by Nika Soon-Shiong, daughter of Los Angeles Times owner Patrick Soon-Shiong... Each selected family will receive at least a few hundred dollars on a recurring basis, as well as tools that will help them access financial guidance, Brown said. Parents or other residents caring for dependents may receive more. Anonymous researchers will track the participants' spending and well-being.

Brown said she had been aware of the concept of universal guaranteed income for years, but got to see it in action in February 2019 when Stockton Mayor Michael Tubbs launched the Stockton Economic Empowerment Demonstration, which gave 125 residents $500 a month for 18 months... The concept of giving citizens free money with no strings attached was once a radical idea that has begun gaining traction, partly as a result of the pandemic. Opponents of guaranteed income have argued that extra cash with no strings attached would lead to higher levels of unemployment and that recipients might spend the money on drugs or alcohol or other "temptation goods."

But decades of research has indicated that very few people work less after receiving cash transfers, and those who do use usually spend more with their families, said Halah Ahmad, head of public relations and policy communications for the Jain Family Institute, a nonprofit research firm that helps design guaranteed income pilot programs. In a review of 19 studies on cash transfers between 1997 and 2014 by the World Bank, authors found that "Almost without exception, studies find either no significant impact or a significant negative impact of transfers on temptation goods."

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Another California City Launches a Two-Year Guaranteed Income Program

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  • I'd put it in the bank.

    • $500 hardly amounts to an income. I'm sure there's plenty of lower and even middle income households (especially those with kids) who are more or less living paycheck to paycheck, always a payment or 2 behind on their car, maybe with an appliance that desperately needs replacing or needing some new clothes for the kids, for whom that $500 would be most welcome to help balance their budget. And I'm sure with most of them, anything left over will be saved up against a rainy day or perhaps for a family vacati
  • an unworkable idea that will never work in the real world for society as a whole..
    • 125 people paid $9,000 over the course of 18 months amounts to a hair over a million bucks. Great start! Now try that for the entire population of California, and tell me where the money (about 185 billion per year, if you only include people 18 and over) will come from.

      • Re:Now scale it up (Score:5, Informative)

        by quintessencesluglord ( 652360 ) on Sunday October 18, 2020 @11:29PM (#60623606)

        The GDP of California is 3.2 Trillion and the fifth largest economy in the world.

        As such, that would be a little less than 6% of their economy and would actually be one of their cheapest anti-poverty measures. :-)

        • 6% of their economy

          Engineers and business men will go to work, but plumbers, construction workers, burger flippers, and welders will stay home and drink and beat their spouses. The GDP will plummet for sure.

          • 6% of their economy

            Engineers and business men will go to work, but plumbers, construction workers, burger flippers, and welders will stay home and drink and beat their spouses. The GDP will plummet for sure.

            Well over half of American GDP is based on consumer spending.

            We practically asked for this shit.

          • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Also it wouldn't actually cost $185 billion because the tax system could be adjusted to claw 100% of it back from people who don't need it.

          • by Anonymous Coward
            sooo you are saying instead of UBI you want a welfare system? isn't that exactly what we have now? you just want welfare to be higher.
        • Being dependent upon an allowance from some arrogant debutant or government agency just means you're being kept comfortably trapped in poverty, not lifted out of it.
          • Except that wages are way way below the levels they should be. Median wages have retreated in the last 40 years compared to inflation.

            In1985 my father could own a large house two cars 5 acres a boat and afford a stay at home wife with the kids.

            In 2015 at the same salary I could afford a house half that size let alone a wife or kids.

            The 2010 economic recovery recovered everything but wages. Right now amazon and hobby lobby have nation wide minimum wages of $15 -$17 an hour. It is the only way to hire peop

            • How would free money from the government increase wages? That only makes accepting a low wage easier.

              There are a number of reasons wages stagnated (they were recovering, pre-covid numbers were awesome), not one was a lack of a government funded allowance. The very notion that a radical new wealth-redistribution program is a reasonable approach to restoring conditions from 40 years ago is pretty silly. No offense, but since your father didn't buy that house using universal income, I don't see how it co

        • This won't do anything to poverty. You give everyone UBI and rents will skyrocket because everyone will now try to get apartments. Then the govt will need to put caps on rent. So UBI will lead to full blown Communism.
        • Relative to the total economy is a terrible way to measure the cost of new government programs. The current state budget is $214.8B [wikipedia.org]. So an extra $185B would increase the budget, and thereby the taxes, by 86%. In a state where people already complain about the taxes being too high.

          • Um, keep in mind you take out current welfare spending.
            if it is ~100 billion already, making it 185 only adds 85

            https://www.marketwatch.com/st... [marketwatch.com]

            "California, with its suffocating cost of living and huge population, is home to an inordinate number of households receiving public assistance. In fact, with $103 billion going toward welfare, the Golden State’s spending on the financially needy is more than the next two on the list combined."

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by ranton ( 36917 )

        125 people paid $9,000 over the course of 18 months amounts to a hair over a million bucks. Great start! Now try that for the entire population of California, and tell me where the money (about 185 billion per year, if you only include people 18 and over) will come from.

        Well for starters we spend about $462 billion in welfare per year, or about $2200 per person over 18. That wouldn't completely go away with a $6k yearly UBI, but if even half of it went away you are nearly 20% there. Then there is $1250 per person on police and prisons, which would also slightly reduce if the primary catalyst for crime was reduced. Even a 20% reduction goes a long way.

        The other 75% or so comes from progressive taxation. If actually put into place, you would probably see something like no ta

        • The top 25% of tax paying households would then pay for the benefits of the rest.

          Why try to be successful then? Why not be a hack and let the successful pay you for it? A person in the 26th percentile will be worse off for being in the 25th percentile.

          • by Anonymous Coward
            Ah yes, the old "Why earn a million dollars and pay 500,000 (50%) in taxes, when you can just earn 250,000 and only pay 50,000 (20%) in taxes?!" argument. I can think of 300,000 reasons.
  • Entire countries give far more - its called free medical...thats worth far more than a few hundreds a month.
    • Free medical for everyone is cheaper that UBI for everyone. Wow, I would like to see the numbers. After all, I'm sure there are many open minded people willing to take a look. I personally have never seen that claim before.
      • by SirSlud ( 67381 )

        You talk like you you're always giving everyone medical treatment or a everybody draws a basic income. Neither of those things are true.

    • We have free medical in the USA. Go to a hospital or urgent care and they will fix you up even if you open declare you will ignore the bill (if uninsured).
      • What if you need regular medication ?
      • by Anonymous Coward
        really? try going for a knee replacement, hip replacement or any other voluntary but necessary surgery. Tell me how well you manage to get that free.
    • No they don't. Only a handful countries like Switzerland and Norway spend more than $500 a month (or $6,000 a year) per person [wikipedia.org] on healthcare.

  • by oldgraybeard ( 2939809 ) on Sunday October 18, 2020 @09:51PM (#60623438)
    This anonymous everything is getting out of hand.
    • Wonder if they will be using anonymous data, in anonymous ways to prove anonymous truths. Truths so super powerful they must remain anonymous to the unwashed.
  • What good is cash if people are going to steal your stuff and cops aren't really able to do anything about it? Sounds like CA is trying to attract people back but that's kind of hard when you walk down the street in fear of druggies.

    • Sadly, California is still affected by the federal government's war on unprofitable drugs. That really shits on the whole country, and much of the rest of the world besides.

  • "Opponents of guaranteed income have argued that extra cash with no strings attached would lead to higher levels of unemployment and that recipients might spend the money on drugs or alcohol or other "temptation goods.""

    No, the biggest argument against it is who pays, scalability, affect on economy, affect on job market, affect on inflation etc etc. Those that blindly support it cherry pick an argument like the above.

    • by ranton ( 36917 )

      "Opponents of guaranteed income have argued that extra cash with no strings attached would lead to higher levels of unemployment and that recipients might spend the money on drugs or alcohol or other "temptation goods.""

      No, the biggest argument against it is who pays, scalability, affect on economy, affect on job market, affect on inflation etc etc. Those that blindly support it cherry pick an argument like the above.

      They were only mentioning the reasonable arguments against UBI. It is reasonable to be worried about what would happen to our economy if the working class felt less inclined to work. It also used to be a reasonable concern they would spend it mostly on "temptation goods" but there has been a significant amount of research in the past decades to show that is a very low concern.

      Worrying about how it would be paid for is a red herring from conservatives, since progressive taxation would easily pay for such mea

      • Worrying about how it would be paid for is a red herring from conservatives, since progressive taxation would easily pay for such measures.

        you were doing well till you made this moronic statement. No one has ever been able to come up with a model that is easily paid for yet, they pretty much all would require a huge amount of taxation reform and tax increases as the current taxation base doesn't come close to covering the costs.

      • Motivation for people to work is a big thing... and not just for those not working or at the very bottom. I actually worry far less about a UBI for those unemployed. Hey, if I could pay people to just smoke weed and play video games and they'd otherwise wouldn't burden society, I would.

        I worry far more about those actually working. The key to a UBI is that everyone gets it regardless of circumstance. I'm a hardworking person with so-called immigrant values. Why would I work if I could grab a UBI without any

        • Hey, if I could pay people to just smoke weed and play video games and they'd otherwise wouldn't burden society, I would.

          You lost me there.

  • by eatvegetables ( 914186 ) on Sunday October 18, 2020 @10:44PM (#60623512)

    "So far, private donors have contributed $2.5 million"

    Hey, if it's private money, not a big deal. In my universe, private people can spend their own money in any smart, dumb, legal way they want to.

    Certainly, giving people money for nothing isn't the best use of money. You'll get people buying stem cells, mechanical stilts, a hundred cups of coffee, and/or burglar tool sets. However, the occasional goos soul might spend their free money buying food for hobos.

    • You're saying they are going to buy stem cells to improve their night vision, so they can use the mechanical stilts to climb up to a window late at night while on coffee to rob a place using burglar tools? Sounds legit.

    • "So far, private donors have contributed $2.5 million"

      Hey, if it's private money, not a big deal. In my universe, private people can spend their own money in any smart, dumb, legal way they want to.

      Certainly, giving people money for nothing isn't the best use of money. You'll get people buying stem cells, mechanical stilts, a hundred cups of coffee, and/or burglar tool sets. However, the occasional goos soul might spend their free money buying food for hobos.

      +1 Futurama reference

  • Any experiment is worth doing, but you've created an elite class (granted $500 a month won't get you country club membership.) It's not really mimicing UBI exactly, but OK I guess it will provide some useful data. Although we kinda already have that experiment it's called trust fund kids. Can we google what happens to them?

  • My brother got laid off for corona and got a fat 1100 per week on unemployment and OD'd on heroine. Please don't give my brother any money.
    • Depending on what state it is unemployment benefits are up to but typically less than 35% of your employed income... so if your brother was getting $1100 with $600 of that being the boost that expired way back in the end of July, your brother was making about 75%-80% of his employed income. And you say that's too much and that's why he OD'd on heroin? I don't think you understand how drug addiction or depression works.
  • Firstly, this one is not really universal basic income, as the recipient families are selected. The fundamental idea of UBI is that *everyone* gets a certain amount of cash (or more likely credit), regardless if that one is a billionaire or a homeless person. Taxation (flat or progressive) doesn't disappear. Secondly, it's not just a leftist/sjw/marxist/reptilian-hillary-conspirator idea. Friedrich Hayek supported such a scheme himself.
    • Economists like Friedrich Hayek and Milton Freeman supported UBI as a substitute for government programs. Being strong believers in the free market they believed that spending money on government programs was wasteful. Giving that money directly to people instead would results in markets and free enterprises that would deliver these same services more efficiently than the government ever could.

      Giving people free money and keeping government programs completely misses the point.

  • What does $500/month actually buy in California? Not a place to live, for sure; maybe a cheap tent on a sidewalk somewhere. Even food may be tricky at that price level, given that the homeless have a more difficult time cooking their own (which is both the cheapest and healthiest option, but requires a kitchen with a minimum level of utensils). So your idea of social security is "if you play it right, you might be able to avoid starvation"?

    The socialist nations of Europe do this better: the unemployed are n

  • Why don't all of these experiments combine and do an actual, true UBI test - provide a living wage guaranteed income to 3 generations of people in one small city. Don't pick "only people who need it", give it to everyone from a local millionaire to the people who live under the bridge. You need 3 generations so that you can study the behavior of parents when they know their kids have lifetime UBI, and behavior of kids having parents who have UBI and knowing their kids will have UBI too. You can even limit t

    • UBI proponents like to wave their hands over how to pay for it

      Enter proponents of MMT, which also can never be put to a real test, but only can be revealed like a magic trick

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  • That a small number of people continue to promote a bad idea very loudly does not mean it has ceased to be radical. That an idea has gained traction among some rich idiots does not mean it has ceased to be radical.

    It's starting to seem like there is a coordinated effort to promote this, inherently ridiculous, idea with excessive coverage of miniscule pseudo-implementations that are too small and too carefully targeted (cherry-picked sample = worthless results) "experiments" designed to show positive resu

    • When you are in control, and people become reliant on you for everything, you will always be in control.
      It has, and always will be, a power play disguised as humanitarianism.

  • I just overheard a few college age guys talking about socialism the other day saying they wish they could get into a program like this so they don't have to work and can get high all day. Their sole reason for them holding a job is to pay for their drugs. I suppose it has its benefits, there would be a much smaller chance that your life would be in the hands of a druggie coworker.
  • by PopeRatzo ( 965947 ) on Monday October 19, 2020 @09:33AM (#60624724) Journal

    In the past year, the Fed has increased the M2 money supply by $3 TRILLION dollars, and our Federal Government has increased the US budget deficit by another $3 TRILLION (if there is another "stimulus" bill, it will be over $4 TRILLION). Most of that was used to keep stock prices inflated (in the case of the Fed) or to provide tax cuts to rich people. This is over 4x higher than any previous administration.

    If the US can spend this kind of money to enrich wealthy people it can goddamn well spend a small fraction of that to make people's lives better.

    https://apnews.com/article/vir... [apnews.com]

  • I think Snoop Dogg recorded a bunch of hits about this 25+ years ago. Expect similar results to what he prophesized, and at least as much weed.
  • They would be better off investing the money in teaching people about how to handle money.

  • If where I live did this, I would refuse the money outright, and if 'forced' on me somehow (i.e. they just send a check) I'd either return it or tear it up. I don't believe in 'UBI', I think it's the worst CANCER we could inflict on ourselves, and will never stop discouraging it.
  • Damnit, if you're going to throw 'free government money' at poeple then throw it at the homelessness problem or some other extant problem that need attention, not cancerous nonsense like 'UBI' experiments!

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