America Pushes Europe to Reject Chinese Baggage Screening Tech (engadget.com) 96
An anonymous reader quotes Engadget:
The U.S. fight against Chinese technology appears to be extending to another category: the security screening you normally see at the airport or border. Wall Street Journal sources understand the National Security Council and other U.S. agencies are pushing European governments (including Germany, Greece and Italy) to avoid using baggage, cargo and passenger screening systems from Nuctech, a Chinese state-run company that already has a foothold in the continent. American officials are reportedly worried any connected devices could pass sensitive data like passenger info and shipping manifests to Chinese spies.
Much like the claims against Huawei, there's no publicly available evidence of Nuctech forwarding data to Chinese surveillance systems. The U.S. Transportation Security Administration barred Nuctech from many U.S. airports in 2014 following a review, although the report is classified... The U.S. is supposedly asking European nations to replace Nuctech equipment with American equivalents — it stands to benefit if the Chinese company gets kicked out. That's a strong incentive to keep up the campaign, even if the surveillance claims are unwarranted.
Much like the claims against Huawei, there's no publicly available evidence of Nuctech forwarding data to Chinese surveillance systems. The U.S. Transportation Security Administration barred Nuctech from many U.S. airports in 2014 following a review, although the report is classified... The U.S. is supposedly asking European nations to replace Nuctech equipment with American equivalents — it stands to benefit if the Chinese company gets kicked out. That's a strong incentive to keep up the campaign, even if the surveillance claims are unwarranted.
Build their own? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why doesn't Europe just make their own?
Why are they stuck buying from either China or the US?
What's the point of a huge economic union if you can't provide for your member nations' most basic economic security needs?
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Definitely, both US and China equipment are a security risk in theory.
But chinese airport scanning stuff..lol. Does it even have wifi? US bullshitting campaign again, don't listen to them.
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One startling difference comes to mind: if the Chinese would like an ally to replace American screening technology with Chinese manufactured products, they wouldn't attempt to justify the request with security concerns... and it wouldn't come across so much like a request, as it would a threat or an order.
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Which is quite similar to the stance the US took towards European countries picking 5G suppliers.
Re:Build their own? (Score:4, Insightful)
Which is quite similar to the stance the US took towards European countries picking 5G suppliers.
And yet there are no US suppliers of 5G network equipment. The alternatives to Chinese are... European. The US was arguing to buy European goods instead of Chinese goods. But don't let that stand in the way of anti-US feelings.
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Wikipedia lists Cisco and Qualcomm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org].
Re: Build their own? (Score:2)
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Why doesn't Europe just make their own?
Because it is a small niche market. It makes sense to consolidate production in one place to gain economies of scale.
Re: Build their own? (Score:5, Informative)
Europe built their own GPS satellite system. Europe builds their own cars. Europe has a huge amount of core science of all types going on. Europe builds their own military equipment: tanks, jets, etc. But security equipment is too niche?
More niche than a fighter jet of which only a few hundred will be built over 10-15 years?
Re: Build their own? (Score:2)
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The reason to buy Chinese equipment is not because there are no products from within the EU, it's most likely because the Chinese products are much cheaper. And because various governments in the EU have more trust in China as a trade partner than in the US these days. Not a smart move in my opinion, but that's how it is.
Though it wouldn't surprise me if you could find a lot more Thales equipment in France. The govern
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But I would neither say that China gained any trust nor that the US acted more reliable during the last years.
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But security equipment is too niche?
Again you've at no point justified why having an xray machine at an airport is a basic security need for a nation, and if it were you've not justified the security implication of buying the technology from a foreign source.
"Security needs" for a nation are typically divided into a few core things:
1) Necessary consumables (fuel, medicine, food)
2) Equipment for national security (information which a foreign source could use to attack you).
Now identify how having a Chinese or an American company selling this p
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Military aircraft are vital for national security. We need full control over their manufacture.
Baggage scanning equipment isn't. The worst that could happen is someone sneaks a bomb onboard an aircraft, or somehow it exfiltrates large image files without anyone noticing or being connected to the internet. Not sure why they would want to do that though.
I think we can risk it.
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Why doesn't Europe just make their own?
You have touched on the economic conundrum that is advanced nations trading with each other. "Why doesn't ${country} manufacture their own ${product}?" is a phrase that can be applied to every single advanced nation in the world when you chose to select a specific product on the market.
The answer always lies in economics. It's not a question of being "stuck" to buy from one or the other, it's a question of it making the most financial sense to do so, that same answer is also why the leading contender is Chi
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There's a gigantic risk in building these systems as well. Each one has to be custom designed for the airport, the airlines, the percentage of baggage staying domestic vs international, even the percentage of each aircraft type that will be predominant in each concourse of the airport. In addition it needs to be adaptable for changes in any of these, and other, variables, plus it has to integrated into the existing infrastructure and built space. Finally, it needs to be installed without major disruption
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Wait what? You're talking about something completely different to the rest of us. You're talking about the engineering and design of a complex cross airport handling system. What TFA is about, and what the rest of us are talking about is the supply of individual components in these systems, and these are typically off the shelf (as far as a CT scanner can be) parts.
Literally no one is going to the Chinese and asking them to build them an airport baggage handling system. That is still very much a local desig
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Well, all the X-Ray machines I've seen at airports over here were from Smith Heimann in Wiesbaden.
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and yet
Has the USA gotten this desperate? (Score:5, Insightful)
The U.S. is supposedly asking European nations to replace Nuctech equipment with American equivalents — it stands to benefit if the Chinese company gets kicked out.
First, it was Huawei despite lack of any evidence. It's now this Nuctech company
I think the USA has become so desperate. I also think it's because its sanctions on the likes of Russia, Venezuela etc etc haven't produced any desired results even with years in place.
Administration officials must be feeling some [huge] lump in their throat.
Re:Has the USA gotten this desperate? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Has the USA gotten this desperate? (Score:5, Informative)
European nations already have military alliance with the USA which makes USA equipment safer than Chinese
...bold mine...
I guess you mean safer to be snooped on like the Germans learned [reuters.com] not so long ago.
Let me inform you that E Snowden [newyorker.com] also revealed a lot about one 3 letter agency I am sure you know about.
Re:Has the USA gotten this desperate? (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, the USA has tons of transparency laws, which china does not have.
It is a joke right ? When it is well known that the NSA put backdoor in routers for years while claiming the ones from China were not safe for the same reason (and without any proof) https://www.theregister.com/20... [theregister.com] Then we got allegations about spying ships on motherboards made in China which proved unfounded. Meanwhile US can make secret court order to force US corporation to give them data: https://www.theguardian.com/wo... [theguardian.com]
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USA has tons of transparency laws
Snowden has taught us one thing, and that's the USA is horrible for pointlessly killing trees by putting those worthless laws on paper.
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Yes, transparency - like "trad secrets". Transparent like mud.
Re:Has the USA gotten this desperate? (Score:5, Interesting)
I always take these "warnings" from the US as a good sign. They only reasons they would make them are if the products are too competitive or they don't have US backdoors or both.
Re: Has the USA gotten this desperate? (Score:2)
Yeah that's the only reason. Hmm let's see. Germany gets its energy from Russia, EU is getting its 5G and security equipment from China. What's next? Maybe buy a vote counting system from a Russian/Chinese joint partnership company?
Smh
How sad you can't tell the difference between a reasonable passive western super power and a very hostile dictatorial brutal murderous communist regime. If the Chinese had the economic and military power the US has had for 70+ years your country would be a Chinese fiefdom
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Wow, if you think that US voting technology is in any way preferable then your naivete has reached a new low.
Your version of history must be equally blinkered if you don't think that the US has an equally bloody history, the difference being that our victims weren't domestic.
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If their technology is superior, which it seems to be, why should they not be allowed to sell their equipment to whoever wants it? Just because the US companies won't get a cut? There's a simple answer, build better equipment for a better price.
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> First, it was Huawei despite lack of any evidence. It's now this Nuctech company
Check the immediately previous top-level article before this one. It's about a "mandatory tax-prep software" that companies doing business in China were required to install. Several months after installation, the software went ahead and installed back-doors in these companies' systems, using notorious back-door software that really has no purpose except for remote control and snooping.
Given Huawei's (and several other Chi
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it's not an unreasonable suspicion that there might be backdoors in these systems, too.
I agree. That suspicion is anything but unreasonable.
However, no matter how strong that suspicion is, we shouldn't forget that US hardware has actually been caught with hardware backdoors.
So, at least when buying 5G equipment, the sensible thing to do would be to add the requirement for an independent security audit into the tender and only pick a vendor that allows you to do a complete audit including source and verifying the installed build against that source. And now guess which was the only bidder who
Re: Has the USA gotten this desperate? (Score:3, Interesting)
Correct. The world's view of the US has shifted quite a bit in the last years. From big powerful leading empire before the NSA leaks and before W. Bush, to mostly laughing stock and desperate and in denial of its loss of power now.
It is really hard to not let it overflow into thinking that of regular US cititens too. I have to repeadetly tell myself that people are just people, and you're mostly quite alright. Just like Americans will perhaps do with thinking about regular Russian or Chinese people.
I just w
NATO (Score:2)
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Airport baggage scanners are civilian.
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Military alles. This is a civilian matter, is it so hard to understand?
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Trump's adversarial behaviour has broken many of these ties, so nope, not anymore.
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It is starting with the retaliation for the American tariffs - unthinkable just a decade ago - and ends with Merkel refusing to attend Trump's G7 circus.
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You overestimate the importance of it since it is just a followup to a treaty of 1923 and we all know how that has worked out.
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And what was the purpose of NATO again? Wasn't it to "protect" us against the Warsaw Pact countries? Now most of them are NATO members. So what is its purpose now?
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It's looking more and more like that from the inside, as well.
Re: NATO (Score:2)
Yeah... NATO...aka official "vassals of the USA".
Or how we say in Germany:
North
American
Totalitarian
Oppression
WW2 was a long time ago. We have the EU now. The NATO can piss right off.
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Yeah... NATO...aka official "vassals of the USA".
Or how we say in Germany:
North
American
Totalitarian
Oppression
WW2 was a long time ago. We have the EU now. The NATO can piss right off.
Despite the way you Germans push the "right to be forgotten" we have not forgotten.
NATO was an attempt to divide the world between the two superpowers USA and USSR. The USSR has fallen, but Russia is still there, still trying to exert it's former influence. The USA hasn't fallen, but is a shadow of it's former self.
The world would be better off if the EU would step up and take the lead in world affairs, military and other. The US could finally stand down it's excessive military, stop fighting in so many
How is airport baggage a security risk? (Score:3)
Re: How is airport baggage a security risk? (Score:1)
Here's 2 off the top of my head:
1- tracking the travel of millions of people, in particular dissidents and other anti-China types
2- knowing the holes in the system they would know what can be smuggled through or possible disable the scans for special cases
I'm sure you can think of other reasons why controlling another country's airport security scanners could be useful.
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Re: How is airport baggage a security risk? (Score:1)
Uhm ok what's any of that have to do with why buying Chinese airport scanners might be a bad idea?
Re: How is Way More Cocks Sucked Than You a risk? (Score:1)
Uh, yeah, seek help. AC was the only smart thing you did today.
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How exactly does a baggage scanner allow you to track the movement of anyone? All it does (or should be doing anyway) is show an x-ray image of whatever is passed through the machine so the guy watching can determine if the bag is safe.
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1-Tracking is already done on a passport level. Governments know where you go when you're overseas.
2-Security holes are not technology based it's people based, and going about it this way would be an insanely complex exercise easily foiled by basic network management. In other words, little more than a glorified conspiracy theory.
This isn't a security risk for any country.
Re: How is airport baggage a security risk? (Score:2)
What's your problem with a dildo? (I think you mean a vibrator, if it's got batteries.)
Don't tell me you think it's not normal to masturbate when in a relationship.
Hell, what's to say you won't enjoy that dildo too? ^^
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Yeah, I might want to know my wife is hauling a dildo with extra battery capacity around with her.
Given you're allowed 2x 160Wh of battery in your carry on or up to 20x 100Wh of battery, I really really want to meet your wife.
Why is EU doing business with a modern Nazi state (Score:5, Insightful)
What China is doing to the Uyghurs and Falun Gong should make them a global pariah state.
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Are you of the opinion that US elites are different? Sorry, wrong.
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You might as well have substituted China for Saudi Arabia (who are worse) but of course the Saudis have oil, which is why they can fly planes into buildings in New York and suffer no consequences.
Re: Why is EU doing business with a modern Nazi st (Score:2, Insightful)
Says the American, off all states ... LOL
The only fuckin country on the planet that still clings to race theories, acting like there is such a thing as "races", despite being debunked by every sane country , about 100 years ago.
The country that fueled the Nazi empire and had its own human experiments and racist societies etc, until oh shh..., they realized the Nazis are gonna lose, while the Soviets, French and Brits were about to win, quickly turned their coat around, stormed to the front, kicked over the
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Same reason why American companies did business with the actual Nazis. Money, because the dollar doesn't have morals, and cares even less when the morally questionable acts happen to others.
Before asking why the EU should care about China, one needs to first get rid of anyone wearing a #MAGA hat, because until the world is rid of people who only give a shit about themselves or their own country you can't even begin to consider someone caring about something that's going on to "other people" on the other sid
Re: A simple solution to Chinese crimes (Score:2)
Thank you for your proof that average Americans are more evil, vile and psychopathic than even the worst Chinese concentration camp torturers.
I mean, the world knew, just by looking at your "economy" aka "society", but still, thanks.
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Well, I wouldn't bet money that no Chinese concentration camp torturer hasn't come up with that idea already, but it speaks volumes that average Americans - with no professional connection to the torture business - come up with such ideas, too.
Then again, professional tortures in both countries probably would prefer procedures not inducing potentially lethal trauma right away.
Ok then (Score:1)
"We're Europe. Nobody tells us what to do! Besides the US is the real problem in the world!" -- A Chinese state-sponsored troll.
Re: Ok then (Score:2)
Lol. Nice try, US drone. (Why sponsor you when you're so easily manipulated to do it for free?)
Literally everyone here in Europe thinks this. You're just in denial. Well, hate to tell ya, but you as a country don't matter anymore. Throw one of your tantrums. Bully the world some more. It won't help. It's over.
Look at me. You're the second world now.
Think about screening for Coronavirus... (Score:1)
Re: Think about screening for Coronavirus... (Score:2)
Lol, fun fact: US Americans are currently banned from entering the EU.
And nobody here is stupid enough to enter the infested USA anyway. Like entering Nazi Germany in 1937.
Nice dreams you got there, Murica... (Score:4, Interesting)
From Germany, those stories read quite a bit different.
Like how the relations to the US and UK are currently quite "tense" and "strained", and the EU "sits between the US and China/Russia".
And how US citizens are currently banned from entering the EU, because of its failure to control the Coronavirus.
Instead of the US's, quite frankly, propaganda view of EU countries still being pretty much vassal lapdogs of the US.
Yeah, there's still some US moles in the EU. But the UK is almost kickbanned already. But when Trump "threatens" to pull out US troops and bases, all we can do is laugh heartily. Oh noes! The occupyiers and hostile state meddlers will leave? We have a sad! ;-; Big booboo tears... lol
(Note how this comment in no way goes against American citizens like you. I'm offending the people that mostly are your enemies too. Not you. We mostly have no problem with you guys. People are people [youtu.be]. Just don't fall for their games and don't let them do this to your country.)
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And how US citizens are currently banned from entering the EU, because of its failure to control the Coronavirus.
That's a direct result of Trump's failure to respond to the pandemic, even though he had every tool at his disposal, an early warning, and every opportunity to act. Instead he downplayed it and lied about it so his pals could dump their stock and avoid losses.
Much like the claims against Huawei... (Score:2)
there's no publicly available evidence of Nuctech forwarding data to Chinese surveillance systems.
So we found an article that's clearly written by a PRC shill.
funny... (Score:2)
trying to bar chinese equipment but promoting their own american version, which have already been proven to have backdoors for US 'intelligence'services.. I guess the chinese hardware it too hard to hack for US spies, it's the same with the huawei hardware, it's too tough for the US to hack the hardware so therefore they try to get it banned, and replaced with hardware which they already have backdoors in.. The US is the biggest hypocrite when it comes to security and spying, it's been proven over and over
Yeah.... (Score:2)
Hmmmmm (Score:2)
"American officials are reportedly worried any connected devices could pass sensitive data like passenger info and shipping manifests to Chinese spies."
Or worse, it could made to "fail to detect" certain items carried by certain people. For example, "Ignore all gun-shaped objects from 2pm to 4pm on American Airlines today".
Is that so far-fetched?