Trump Wants California To Let Automaker Tesla Reopen Assembly Plant (reuters.com) 206
U.S President Trump on Tuesday tweeted that Tesla should be allowed to reopen its electric vehicle assembly plant in California, joining CEO Elon Musk's bid to defy county officials who have ordered it to remain closed. "California should let Tesla & @elonmusk open the plant, NOW. It can be done Fast & Safely!" Trump wrote on Twitter. Musk tweeted "Thank you!" in response. Reuters reports: At Tesla's factory in Fremont, California, employee parking lots that were deserted on Friday were packed with cars on Tuesday. Trucks could be seen driving in and out of the factory grounds. About a dozen workers, some masked, some not, were seen standing by a red food truck on the factory grounds. At the factory's outbound logistics parking lot, where only a dozen Tesla cars stood on Friday, hundreds of Tesla vehicles were seen on Tuesday.
A county health official on Friday said the county had asked all manufacturers, including Tesla, to delay operations by at least another week to monitor infection and hospitalization rates. Scott Haggerty, the Alameda County supervisor for the district where Tesla's factory is located, told the New York Times on Saturday that the county had been working to permit Tesla to resume operations on May 18 - the same day other U.S. automakers have been permitted to resume production in other states.
A county health official on Friday said the county had asked all manufacturers, including Tesla, to delay operations by at least another week to monitor infection and hospitalization rates. Scott Haggerty, the Alameda County supervisor for the district where Tesla's factory is located, told the New York Times on Saturday that the county had been working to permit Tesla to resume operations on May 18 - the same day other U.S. automakers have been permitted to resume production in other states.
Sounds like they're not ready (Score:5, Insightful)
About a dozen workers, some masked, some not,
If they don't have enough masks for their workers, they're not ready to re-open.
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Re: Sounds like they're not ready (Score:2, Insightful)
How do you know they have enough masks? And which is a safer assumption if no data is provided?
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Re: Sounds like they're not ready (Score:5, Insightful)
So your assumption is that some of the people by a food truck, that's outside the factory, without a mask means that there's an insufficient supply of masks in the building?
Have you ever tried to eat food through a mask? Hint: it doesn't work as well as you might be picturing.
Tesla does not make food truck health regulations - the city, county, and state do. Food trucks are allowed to operate. Outdoor activity in general is allowed to operate.
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If they plan to have thousands of people in an enclosed space they should have thought about how they intend to feed them safely, not just relied on a nearby food truck.
They should have educated their staff too. When you go to the food truck you have your mask on so you don't infect all the food and other people waiting there. You take your stuff somewhere safe and eat it.
This is exactly the kind of thing they needed to sort out before re-opening.
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So they should force their employees to eat indoors? Last I checked you are free to chose where you eat when in work. At least in my place of employment. Where do you work where you are mandated to eat the company provided lunches?
Are you assuming that they are relying on a food truck because a few people were using it? That seems very disingenuous. It seems much more likely that some of Musk's employees simply decided to go to the food truck instead of eating inside. Why do you have a problem with this?
Why
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Masks are sold to employees from vending machines inside the Fremont Tesla factory. I'm not making that up.
Re: Sounds like they're not ready (Score:2)
Next to the Plasmids vending machines?
Re: Sounds like they're not ready (Score:2)
Masks are sold to employees from vending machines inside the Fremont Tesla factory. I'm not making that up.
Maybe you're not making it up, but someone sure did. Here is where that lie originates:
"But one assembly worker who reported to work early Thursday said there were no signs of slowing down. His temperature was not taken, he was given a thin white paper mask, and then he went to work a few feet away from co-workers. ....
Sturdier respirator masks were available in vending machines, the employee said, but only for shift leads or supervisors who could get them by swiping their Tesla badges."
https://www.protoco [protocol.com]
Re:Sounds like they're not ready (Score:5, Insightful)
How do you know they don't have masks and that they simply chose not to wear them?
Because those would be escorted off the premises and given paperwork stating that they have been fired with cause. At least if Elon was taking his workers safety into consideration. All he is doing is demonstrating he a) is only paying lipservice to the problem and b) wants people back to work regardless.
He can sit in jail, or take flight to south africa or wherever he has in mind.
Re:Sounds like they're not ready (Score:4, Informative)
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People choose to break the law all the time.
But I wasn't aware that the California legislature had passed a bill, that the governor then signed, that required people in California to wear masks all the time. I don't live in CA, so it's possible I missed that. Maybe you can point to some information on this law?
I'm not even sure that such a law would even be constitutional, as it could violate a person's first amendment rights to free expression.
Perhaps you meant that some people are choosing to ignore a s
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>"If they don't have enough masks for their workers, they're not ready to re-open."
You have no idea how many masks they have and you have no idea what social distance is being kept. Masks are mostly meaningless when far away from others, especially outside and away from others. Or are you one of those people who will wear a mask, driving your car, alone, perhaps to virtue signal?
Flawed logic, not "insightful" (Score:2)
An observation that someone doesn't wear a mask does not mean that person was not provided a mask by their employer.
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If they don't have enough masks
How does a visible count of people wearing masks provide any information on the supply chain behind them? Have you ever considered that there are stupid people around?
Re:Not just masks, cleaning supplies (Score:5, Insightful)
>"the chemicals come from China, because we'll be damned if we're going to make chemicals in a country where we can't dump the run off into ground water."
>"As for Musk, I forget the specifics but if he doesn't hit certain production targets he losses several hundred million dollars. Bear in mind Must is already stupendously rich."
And the stockholders lose money. And the people that work for Tesla lose money, or perhaps their jobs. And all the suppliers and contractors and agents lose money. And all the companies that can't sell to the people who earn that money lose money. And participating citizens' retirement funds are penalized. And his customers don't get the products they are waiting for. And they lose competitive edge to other companies. And there is less tax revenue. And there are less EV's to "save the earth."
But yeah, "big evil capitalism."
Re:Not just masks, cleaning supplies (Score:4, Insightful)
You're forgetting the key piece of the puzzle here.
Musk is a rich white man.
That means that no matter what he says or does he is always in the wrong.
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As for Musk, I forget the specifics but if he doesn't hit certain production targets he losses several hundred million dollars.
Oh, let's raid his factories then.
Re: Not just masks, cleaning supplies (Score:2)
Maybe we should stop starving the working population?
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Re: Not just masks, cleaning supplies (Score:2)
It is called lying. He does that, a lot.
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Maybe we should stop starving the working population?
Maybe some of those 3 TRILLION can go to the working population so they won't have to choose between starving or braving the pandemic?
That must have been a tough call for Trump. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:That must have been a tough call for Trump. (Score:5, Funny)
You know, I'm starting to think that Musk might be playing three-dimensional chess, and that this recent tantrum is an attempt to suck up to President Trump, in preparation for when Elon asks for the EV credit to be extended. :-)
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What a gamble, though. What if he dies of COVFEFE-19? Republicans hate green anything, and Democrats will remember he didn't follow lawful public health orders issued by his County during the pandemic.
Isn't this a strange time to hitch your wagon to Trump, in an election year where things are looking bad for him?
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I know you are being funny but the federal EV credit ship has done sailed. The used up their unit limit back at the end of 2019. There are still solar credits though which will be expiring in the near future most likely, but that will impact every company, not just Tesla.
+1 funny. He was a Democrat, though (Score:3, Informative)
That's funny.
On a more serious note, Trump was a Democrat not too long ago, and for most of his life.
He not really a fan of either politiball team, except that of course I'm sure he appreciates the Republicans putting him in the oval office. He'll mostly sign the bills they send him just because he's currently playing for that team. He's a free agent though, not a fan.
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Saying the media and democrats have not said one word about reopening is being blind to things being said to be consistent with ones world view.
Many of the states that have reopened already were directed to do so by democratic leadership. Note this is past tense, it's not some future date, it is already coming to path, for better or for worse. People have pointed out in this story it's a county matter, federal nor state are standing in the way. So *California*, a notoriously 'blue' state is ok with reopenin
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Trump hasn't said much specific about reopening because there's nothing at the federal level to say, it is entirely being managed at the state and local levels. Everything he or his administration say are opinions and suggestions on the matter of lockdown.
Heh. He wanted to have something to say. Remember a few weeks ago when he was busy looking grave and talking about the most important decision he'd ever make? He wanted to look contemplative, thoughtful, careful and then pick a reopening date -- and ideally have it turn out to be right. But no one had any confidence that his decision would be any good, so Democratic governors openly told him to bugger off while Republicans circumspectly said they'd take his advice under consideration and do what they tho
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> competent president, of course, would actually have something to say. He (or she) would have the CDC draw up a well-thought set of criteria to tell states how/when to reopen. It wouldn't contain a specific date or dates, but instead define the active case rates, testing capacity and rates, and contact tracing effectiveness requirements that suggested states should reopen specific types of businesses -- and states would, by and large, follow the guidelines, with perhaps minor tweaks. But in this shamble
I wonder how many workers are asymptomatic (Score:4, Interesting)
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About a week ago, NYC had about 20% of the population that tested for antibodies (i.e. already had the disease). This was a random sample of people at grocery stores, if I remember correctly (maybe not a good random sampling of the population, but that is hard to do - but probably reasonably representative of the working-age population). This is about the worst-hit area in the country, so anywhere else will be less, probably substantially less. My bet is that 5% in Alameda county has had the disease (yes, I
Trump's biggest legacy (Score:2)
Executive order by twitter.
Well shit! (Score:3)
I was all for Telsa's reopening. They had a carefully prepared plan on mitigation as well as preventing spread. But now that Trump supports I'm not sure how I feel anymore.
After all the best thing for humanity seems to simply do the exact opposite of what Trump says or does, and I think there's higher scientific support for simply being anti-Trump than the detailed throught through work Tesla has done.
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Imagine thinking like this?
PS: Trump says not to commit suicide and to have hope.
Why? (Score:2)
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Automakers sometimes keep building because there is an accounting rule that says you can book profits against 90% of the value of anything that is ready to ship. If it's not ready to ship, you can't book any profits against it. Thus, it pays to keep the factory operating for the short-term gain.
Also, Tesla's order backlog is huge. If it can ship a whole pile of cars to its waiting audience, then it pays to keep building.
On the other hand, if Elon Musk's tweets create a bitter taste over the brand, then
Really not a fan of Musk today... (Score:2)
So I can see why he would be upset and why he would complain and push for a change, but his tactic to respond has left a bad taste in my mouth.
What is said to the world: Tesla is being unfairly treated by the county and we are going to do some civil disobedience and every worker that shows up are volunteers, they don't have to come in, so when you see them come in, it's because they believe in Tesla.
What was said to workers: We are illegally reopening. You don't *have* to come if you don't want to, but if y
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This is a dispute with Alameda County, not with California. Unless some tax-base businesses there can open again, Alameda County will not be able afford to prosecute anyone, let alone Elon Musk.
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Yep - and for the record - the cars were there Saturday Night! I charge my car there regularly - and it went from deserted to about 50% full on Saturday evening.
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Re:So much for States Rights.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Alameda doesn't issue guidance alone. IF they don't prosecute, then they'll be perceived as permitting lawlessness. The corporate principalities will have finally visibly won.
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they'll be perceived as permitting lawlessness
Don't forget to shout at the sheriff on twitter
Re:So much for States Rights.... (Score:4, Interesting)
Good theory - but it turns out that the agency that has to enforce this is Fremont PD. The mayor (who I have had the honor of meeting) sympathizes with Tesla and wants them open.
I can see it now - The cops show up in the Fremont PD Model S to arrest Elon... Hmmm... that ain't happening.
Re:So much for States Rights.... (Score:5, Informative)
Indeed - Newsom wants the plant open. So does the city of Fremont. So do the feds. And every other automaker in the US is already either open or reopening, most in places with much higher COVID-rates. I'd be ticked off too. Esp. since Tesla has been running a factory in China under strict control measures since they reopened in February, without problems.
I think Tesla should just hang a sign under the giant "TESLA" logo on the factory, to make it read "TESLA Pot Dispensary, Dry Cleaning, Landscaping, Housekeeping, Nannies, Paint Store and Dog Grooming", to fall under various ridiculous categories that Alameda permits, rather than a factory with 500 thousand square meters of floor space ;)
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While I think Tesla should be open, I don’t think it is quite the same risk level as a nursery. Granted... it is much lower risk than going to the grocery store these days...
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" same risk level as a nursery"
I guess it depends upon where one assigns the risk. Children are the perfect viral hosts and can progenate just about anything a human can host. This virus has little if any effect of harming them but by design they are a perfect propagation media. Significantly more risky than the level of skill labors are required to have to work at Tesla.
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Children are the perfect viral hosts and can progenate just about anything a human can host. This virus has little if any effect of harming them but by design they are a perfect propagation media.
Some research shows that children are actually not only unlikely to be harmed by the virus, they're unlikely to contract it and unlikely to spread it. Yes, I also found this surprising. See https://www.economist.com/inte... [economist.com]
Aside: what do you mean "by design"?
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Aside: what do you mean "by design"?
Ooops... He said a little bit too much.
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Scientists aren't yet sure why this is.
Here's a recent example -
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/... [ctvnews.ca]
Re:So much for States Rights.... (Score:4, Informative)
Tesla had an opening plan in front of the Alameda officials, just like the other car companies. They were all in the process of being approved. Musk is just acting like a spoiled brat for headlines.
Re:So much for States Rights.... (Score:4, Interesting)
Ya I'm not the biggest fan of Musks's actions here. Alameda had already approved re-opening on 5/18, which is just a week after the date Musk decided to open the factory.
My personal guess is: all this is marketing. Musk's next big sell is trucks. You know who buys a lotta trucks? Anti-government, "live free or die (while I kill someone else)" types.
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Unless some tax-base businesses there can open again, Alameda County will not be able afford to prosecute anyone, let alone Elon Musk.
It's ok, they can borrow from the Federal Reserve [federalreserve.gov].
So you can't complain? (Score:3, Insightful)
Trump is saying what the government there SHOULD do, not what he is ORDERING them to do.
Do you often mistake someones opinion for an order?
I'd have that checked out if I were you.
Re: So you can't complain? (Score:2, Insightful)
You first as you have more issues. Like reading comprehension. Did you accidentally post to the wrong tab or something? Who is talking about orders vs opinion in this thread?
Usually it's considered civil to stay out of other people's business. Opinion or otherwise. Such decor is especially expected of those in power. Otherwise you are an asshole.
This is a local matter that the state had clearly said more than once that it should be settled at the local level. Can't we all just let it be?
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You first as you have more issues. Like reading comprehension. Did you accidentally post to the wrong tab or something? Who is talking about orders vs opinion in this thread?
See Hans in the first post - that's pretty much what he's accusing Trump of doing.
Usually it's considered civil to stay out of other people's business. Opinion or otherwise. Such decor is especially expected of those in power.
Suo the success or failure of Tesla is not an issue beyond CA? It has no impact on NY, or NV - both States where it has a large presence?
This is a local matter that the state had clearly said more than once that it should be settled at the local level. Can't we all just let it be?
If it was only a purely-CA issue, you'd have a point. Given that Tesla has major operations in other States - it seems it's more than just a CA issue...
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Worldwide, CoVID-19 has killed 0.00% (significant digits accurate) of the world population ( 285K of 7.6 billion). [ourworldindata.org]
In the US, of those who have died, 43.4% have been in nursing homes [pjmedia.com]. It is overwhelmingly older men [worldometers.info] that die. So if you're under 50, or female, the chances of death are extremely small; if you're over 75, male, and in a nursing home, you stand a very high chance of death by CoVID-19.
I would posit that most workers at Tesla are under 50 years old, and probably not in the high risk category. T
Re: So you can't complain? (Score:5, Funny)
So, essentially, it only hits geezers, so it doesn't matter.
Did the old folks become the new brown people while I wasn't looking?
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Did you miss the past few years where every time a vote went against the will of the woker sections of society they would instantly rush to blame "old people?" Brexit? Blame old folks. Trump? Old folks ruined it all again. Etc.
This is hardly new.
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Nonono, that's dumb people, not old people.
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Certain circles have been claiming the boomers need to die off and let the world get around to fixing the problems they created for several years now. It's not shocking that sentiment is persistent during this pandemic when we see large populations of older folks being wiped out in short order.
Having lost one relative to this already, my stance isn't quite so drastic. I'd much rather see people treat this with the seriousness it deserves. But this is America. Where your right to be stupid somehow supers
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So this is some kinda French Revolution by viral proxy?
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I would point out those figures are the way they are because of the drastic measures taken to respond to them. We lack data to extrapolate how it would look without any measures at all.
It may be the case you are arguing against the need of measures that are being taken supported by data showing how effective they are.
One thing we will gain by lifting the lockdown by degrees is to gather data on how much we can get away with and see how the numbers change.
I would not be surprised if they found that mitigatin
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seriously you are going to try to compare Trumps defending and enforcing rights written into the constitution to LBJ and Kennedy defending and enforcing rights written into the constitution? really???
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Well, the VP can help him by praying the virus away.
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So I disagree with him but in this case, he's just expressing his opinion, not ordering the county or state to do anything.
The Republican party long ago moved away from states' rights, but even if they hadn't, a president expressing an opinion is not infringing upon any rights.
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If your country forces you to choose between your life and your livelihood while at the same time pumping billions into corporations, the choice you're pondering shouldn't be whether to die from starvation or from covid.
Re: So much for States Rights.... (Score:2)
True story. We should send all the doctors and nurses home. Wouldn't want them to have to pick between their lives and their livelihood.
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How about the government pay them extra for risking their lives to save others?
Re: So much for States Rights.... (Score:2)
Well if we're gonna go by that standard, the government REALLY needs to bump up the pay for fishermen and lumberjacks. Clearly their pay should be far higher than for doctors and nurses since their on-job death rate is at least an order of magnitude higher. And once we've bumped them up so theyre making more than doctors, we'll also want to make sure that farmers, miners, and roofers are somewhere between doctors and loggers in terms of pay.
Or maybe the medical profession can deal with a temporary bump in
Re: So much for States Rights.... (Score:2)
The money comes from trees! Like bananas and weed!
Most people are morons.
Re: So much for States Rights.... (Score:2)
So for how many years now has your government been printing additional money? Hint they call it quantities easing.
Re: So much for States Rights.... (Score:2)
You really don't belong here, kid.
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Well -consider that Tesla builds to order - they are building from a backlog with payments already MADE. So the cars are already sold. So the only question is - how will they be delivered. They have that figured out too. Another little note people forget. Tesla is now operating a plant in China - and has already gone through a successful re-opening of that plant. They have a clue about how to do this.
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>"they are building from a backlog with payments already MADE"
Nope. As far as I am aware, deposits are made.
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Yeah, there have only been deposits made. The actual payment is due upon delivery either in the form of an ACH payment / cashier's check / wire transfer for a cash sale, or through financing. They let you know the balance due when you receive your motor vehicle purchase agreement and VIN in the documentation.
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If the Teslas have already been paid for, then why does Musk care so much about opening a week early? You got paid, and have a great excuse as to why customers have to wait another week.
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Tesla is now operating a plant in China
Perhaps because China figured out how to contain the virus? The US hasn't quite done so yet.
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Well, I am waiting for mine, and have cash ready. I debate between a junker Toyota pickup and a Model Y... but keep drifting towards the Y. Ironically, I need a car now because of the lockdown; it is too much of a pain to walk to a carry-out restaurant and have to walk home with your food. Easier to just eat in the car. (Maybe the junker is a better idea...)
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Soon 30K USD car is going to be a luxury in this economy. People who are hurting will be fixing up and driving their old cars or buying 10K used Camry or a used Corolla for 5K, if they can get credit.
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Installing a charger in your garage so you don't have to trickle through a 10 amp circuit. All the upcharges on the new Model S. List goes on.
Re: RIGHT ON! (Score:2, Insightful)
No, it's seems we are currently the majority. Otherwise, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Don't like it, please follow your own advice.
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No you aren't. America will never be Socialist. Go fuck yourself. JUST LEAVE. Why would you stay in a country you obviously hate? We don't want you here.
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Dude take your damn meds already!
Re: RIGHT ON! (Score:2)
Screaming doesn't impress anyone kid.
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Maybe not, but you can't say he ain't entertaining.
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Excuse me, I'm not firm with the way you use your terminology here. By "socialist" you mean a country that protects its citizens in a time of crisis instead of using them as cannon fodder to keep the economy from taking a dent, dead citizens be damned?
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My fire department is socialist.
My hometown (where I grew up) had a privatized volunteer fire department. What they lacked in expensive equipment, they made up for in response time.
A volunteer with a shovel and fire extinguisher in two minutes is often better than a crew and pumper truck in twenty minutes.
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FYI: You've walked way past the bounds of Poe's law.
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i'm sorry, isn't it globally accepted that he is a literal retard, or do you want a psychiatrist panel to shut the fuck up? He can't speak, he can't behave, he contradicts himself, there are websites that catalog his lies ( https://projects.thestar.com/d... [thestar.com] is one), translators are quiting because they can not decypher what the fuck he is saying, he has the reasoning capabilities of a rusted doorhinge. I will skip to the end and say that "orange man bad" falls flat as a retort because he indeed made himself
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Actually, Trump is just a symptom. The real problem is those that voted him into office and _that_ problem will not get resolved anytime soon.
You sound a bit like Hitler (Score:2)
You sound a bit like Hitler, when he spoke of the Jews. And parent sounds like stage 4 TDS sufferer.
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Trump is not just a symptom. He is also an illness. He has his own symptoms.