Trump Signs $2 Trillion Coronavirus Relief Bill (nytimes.com) 163
President Trump on Friday signed into law the largest economic stimulus package in modern American history, backing a $2 trillion measure that expands on a Republican proposal issue last week called the CARES Act -- the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act. The New York Times reports: Under the law, the government will deliver direct payments and jobless benefits for individuals, money for states and a huge bailout fund for businesses battered by the crisis. Mr. Trump signed the measure in the Oval Office hours after the House approved it by voice vote and less than two days after the Senate unanimously passed it.
The legislation will send direct payments of $1,200 to millions of Americans, including those earning up to $75,000, and an additional $500 per child. It will substantially expand jobless aid, providing an additional 13 weeks and a four-month enhancement of benefits, and for the first time will extend the payments to freelancers and gig workers. The measure will also offer $377 billion in federally guaranteed loans to small businesses and establish a $500 billion government lending program for distressed companies reeling from the crisis, including allowing the administration the ability to take equity stakes in airlines that received aid to help compensate taxpayers. It will also send $100 billion to hospitals on the front lines of the pandemic. You can read the bill yourself here.
The legislation will send direct payments of $1,200 to millions of Americans, including those earning up to $75,000, and an additional $500 per child. It will substantially expand jobless aid, providing an additional 13 weeks and a four-month enhancement of benefits, and for the first time will extend the payments to freelancers and gig workers. The measure will also offer $377 billion in federally guaranteed loans to small businesses and establish a $500 billion government lending program for distressed companies reeling from the crisis, including allowing the administration the ability to take equity stakes in airlines that received aid to help compensate taxpayers. It will also send $100 billion to hospitals on the front lines of the pandemic. You can read the bill yourself here.
880 pages... I wonder if someone has read it? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Given it's a time-critical, must-pass bill I have no doubt it's full of dubious details. But if it were not, would it have passed? It's also got a lot of incomprehensible sections which alter existing laws by striking out and adding new language, so the only way to know what it's doing is to read the old law side-by-side. It could take weeks to actually understand it all. I expect everyone in congress had their staff slog through it and try to summarize the important points regarding that particular congres
Re:880 pages... I wonder if someone has read it? (Score:5, Informative)
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That was my point. This is politics: A crisis is an opportunity to do things which would otherwise face insurmountable opposition, and such an opportunity cannot be wasted.
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You could do that but it would leave the law open for wide abuse for being too vague. The way this bill was created was last few weeks bi-partisan members of congress formed committees that each wrote their own little part of the law and then they added it all together.
After that it went through the senate, came to the house, where Chuck Schumer had built support but Nancy Pelosi didn't like it so they added a ton of pork that really has nothing to do with Coronavirus (eg. the Kennedy opera house and a ton
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800 pages is an overnight book for some of us.
I didn't read the whole thing, but I did download the pdf and read the part where they're giving me $1200.
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U.S. Constitution
Article I
Section 5. Each House shall be the judge of the elections, returns and qualifications of its own members, and a majority of each shall constitute a quorum to do business; but a smaller number may adjourn from day to day, and may be authorized to compel the attendance of absent members, in such manner, and under such penalties as each House may provide.
This is why they panicked when Rep Thomas Mas
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From all those who vote it, do you think a single of them have read it entirely? Probably no. I think bill should be able to fit on one page. (yes I know the format is odd and there is little text per page but still).
That's what staffers are for. I found a source that said a senator's staff may range in size from fewer than 20 to more than 60. Let's say 20. That's 40 pages per staffer looking for pet peeves and gotchas and things their bosses hate. Easily doable, the more, the merrier. Nothing gets past tha
It's not really 880 pages (Score:2)
For some reason these bills are written with only 5-7 words per line and 25 lines per page.
If it were written in a more typical book or magazine format, I doubt it would be even 200 pages.
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I think the problem with a 880 pages bills is that they included a bunch of stuff we are not aware off. Google "How Bills Become Law in Congress" Simpson https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
That's because we never really gave a collective shit to participate in our democratic institutions. If we actually did a modicum of participation, things like these wouldn't go unnoticed and/or we would know what stuff goes in.
Now, more often than not, things cannot be made "simpler", and politics are a matter of compromise (unless we pass some law banning omnibus bills or forcing bills to be narrow in topic.)
Complexity and compromise aren't the problems. The problem is that we never participate until
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They're called Christmas bills because everyone gets to put an ornament on the tree.
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The Kennedy Center houses a presidential memorial, preserved by taxpayer dollars. They can't let the underlying organization collapse or they'd lose the organization providing the maintenance and housing of the memorial. It's certainly cheaper than taking over the whole thing if they went bankrupt.
I think airline emissions standards is probably tied to airline bailouts as a compromise, ensuring that they don't just do something stupid and unsustainable.
I haven't read anything about capitol building mainte
Why does Kennedy Arts Center need to double spendi (Score:2)
The federal government funds thr Kennedy Arts Center every year. Why does their budget need to be twice as much this year?
Along the same lines, the National Endowment for the Arts normally gets $200-$250 million, which they then distribute to wealthy organizations such as Kennedy Arts. Why is it an emergency to get them an extra $600 million, more than tripling their total annual budget, this year? We, the taxpayers, do have to pay for this stuff. With so many people laid off, why exactly is this an eme
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The federal government funds thr Kennedy Arts Center every year. Why does their budget need to be twice as much this year?
Because the majority of the facility's budget is still paid for by ticket sales for performances there. I thought I explained that already.
I don't know the reason for the others. I wouldn't immediately assume it's nothing, since I haven't researched it.
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Also, the Kennedy Center isn't in a state, so all the public funding comes from Congress and has to be in some bill somewhere. States and cities fund their own art centers, stadiums, and suchlike things in the same way, but don't have the entire country looking at them.
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Why does the current virus bill include funding for the Kennedy Center, capital building maintenance and cleaning, and airline emission standards?
That's why.
Money is going to organizations effectively put out of business by the virus, in exchange for them giving a little something in return. Global warming hasn't gone away, nor has the virus. This isn't "corruption", it's standard political horsetrading.
Are YOU going to decline your check?
Re:880 pages... I wonder if someone has read it? (Score:4, Funny)
Maybe if they write it in Perl, but then only 2 people in the world would be able to read it, one of them the author.
Actually Perl is the world's only write-only programming language. Any time you try to read code - even when you just got up to get coffee - you just go "I don't understand WTF this code is doing, it's easier to just rip it out and rewrite it." If Perl code is passed from one coder to another it'll wither and die, only to be reborn like a phoenix rising from the ashes. Unlike other languages it can't be taught by books, you sit down in front of the keyboard as if it was a piano and start hammering the keys until it does what you want. Or you get taken away to the insane asylum, whichever comes first. Or last, as being able to code Perl is proof that you're certifiably insane. So remember kids, don't do Perl. It'll rot your brain.
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You're confused. That is a description of PHP.
Funny, but don't know why. Bc regex? Sed, grep, aw (Score:3)
The Perl jokes are funny in the same way Chuck Norris jokes are funny. I'm not sure how that got started, though, other than maybe somebody was confused because Perl programs often use another language as well, regular expressions. I find Perl quite readable, better than several other languages. Better than most any language when somebody goes MVC for no apparent reason.
Also more sane to write than certain languages, such as those that take OOP a little too far.
If you're a menu-clicking Windows user who
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Perl 6 might actually be the Homer Car of this series of tools.
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It's not funny. I've developed in about a dozen languages and Perl is still one of my favourites - definitely my favourite of the scripting language (I'll take curly brackets over indentation for actual program structure any day, thankyouverymuch) and I find competent developer's code perfectly readable. In fact, even from grad school, when I delivered a big project to the next generation of grad students they commented at how easy it was to read - yeah, because I wrote it so it is readable. I see WTF code
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That said, Trump will find a way to squeeze some money out of it.
Hilarious how you point the finger at Trump and ignore the hundreds of millions Democratic interests get out of this bill.. I mean, NPR and the Kennedy Center each deserve tons of millions of dollars because of Covid19, right?? Who does that serve again I wonder...
Re:Trump taking more than just direction from Puti (Score:5, Informative)
NPR does. You need a reliable, free broadcaster to get vital public health information out. Even just preparing that information in a digestible, understandable format is extremely valuable.
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But OP only needs his echo chamber of alt-right extremist media, why does he need any other source? We're doing great, a 10 out of 10. He's so tired of so much winning.
January 22: "We have it totally under control. It's one person coming in from China. It's going to be just fine."
February 2: "We pretty much shut it down coming in from China."
February 24: "The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA⦠Stock Market starting to look very good to me!"
February 25: "CDC and my Administration a
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The police have already gone to them. Which is why Trump University and the Trump Foundation are both no more.
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Trump University? There have been news articles for decades about one scam or scheme or another.
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Are you saying that Trump University wasn't a scam? Because the court disagrees.
Will phase out about that. (Score:2)
The legislation will send direct payments of $1,200 to millions of Americans, including those earning up to $75,000, and an additional $500 per child.
Last I read, the amount will phase out for Adjusted Gross Incomes above $75k by $5 for every $100 of additional earnings.
Re:Will phase out about that. (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes, it basically doesn't help anyone it targets. It sends those on already existing government support more money (anyone $55k is eligible for some form of assistance). The people hardest hit in the economy except for the narrow band between $55k and $75k practically get nothing.
It also establishes extra funds for people that don't work for up to 6 months. So it incentivizes people not to work, if you make $55k (which is the new unemployment limit under this bill), you earn less money going back to work for the next 6 months.
It also uses your 2018 income (tax year 2019) to establish whether or not you have a job today. So if you had a good job 2 years ago and just got laid off, you get nothing. If you had a bad job and you just made $1M you get $1000.
Just this moment we probably want (Score:2, Insightful)
There will likely be multiple rounds of this virus spiking, and if we don't keep the pressure off our healthcare system it'll collapse. People will die. And not just old folk. A 101 year old guy got it and lived, a 21 year old girl got it and died.
But yeah, it's a terrible bill. But we have a terrible government. You were never going to
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It also uses your 2018 income (tax year 2019) to establish whether or not you have a job today.
I believe they will use your 2019 returns for income eligibility, if you've already file them (which I have). The phase out *starts* at $75k, not ends there, so people earning up to that amount will get the full assistance amount. Still, a one time payment doesn't really help pay the rent/expenses for very long.
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That means for 4 months you get the unemployment numbers from your state + an additional $600 for 4 months. After those 4 month you will continue to get state unemployment beyond 2020 (its normall 26 weeks but they added an additional 13). So you get all this on
Re: Will phase out about that. (Score:2)
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It also uses your 2018 income (tax year 2019) to establish whether or not you have a job today. So if you had a good job 2 years ago and just got laid off, you get nothing. If you had a bad job and you just made $1M you get $1000.
There are unemployment provisions in the bill for this scenario. No bill is going to solve for every single scenario, just cover as many situations as possible without it becoming a $4 trillion bill. People who made $100k two years ago are far more likely to have savings even if they have just been laid off, and people who are making $100k are far less likely to be the type of employees being laid off right now. I'm sure you can think up of a hundred other edge cases, but overall this bill is going to help
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Most of it's corporate welfare (Score:2, Troll)
There will be some money getting into people's hands, but there are a _lot_ of strings attached. Naturally there's half a trillion dollars of earmarked slush fund with zero strings attached.
Meanwhile Canada, which is not nearly as wealthy as the US, has given out $2k/mo payments and the UK, poorer still, has guaranteed 80% of people's incomes.
$500 billion (Score:5, Informative)
but if we don't give it to them they'll tank the stock market and fire us all.
If by most of it, you mean $500 billion, or 25%, and by welfare you mean loans, then you are technically correct.
I'm not counting on the Loans being paid off (Score:2)
Here's a break down [politico.com] of some of the bill, but there's just shy of a trill
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There were strings attached to the so-called slush fund, but the Dems torpedoed it and demanded that half of that money now comes with no strings attached. Read the details on the pre- and post-Pelosi bill. The 'slush fund' were loans backed by the government (they had to be paid back), 50% of the new slush fund are 'grants' instead of 'loans' and exempt large corporations like Boeing because Boeing basically said "Hey, we won't take your money if there are strings attached, we'd rather go bankrupt"
Kick that can! (Score:2)
Relax, there's plenty of money (Score:2)
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"America is a rich country."
The national debt called, it wants you to do the math.
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"America is a rich country."
The national debt called, it wants you to do the math.
If you just look at an institution's debt, and not its assets, every single company and society in the world would appear bankrupt. The US had a net worth of $106 trillion [wikipedia.org] according to Credit Suisse. This is nearly 30% of the world's wealth controlled by about 5% of its population.
We should certainly still be worried about our national debt, but it doesn't even come close to making the financial position of the US look bad. We are still a very rich country.
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Bill Gates' prediction. [indiatimes.com]
I am missing something (Score:3)
Let's assume that we'll have 100 million people getting those 1200 bucks, let's add the 500 per child and pretend that we'll thus actually spend about 200 billion on people. Another 877 billion on businesses and 100 billions for hospitals. I'm not even going to comment on proportionality here, what did you expect from this government?
But there's still a couple billions missing to 2 trillions. Where do they go?
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Another 877 billion on businesses and 100 billions for hospitals. I'm not even going to comment on proportionality here, what did you expect from this government?
To be fair... Some of the funds for businesses are loans that will be forgiven if the companies follow specific rules, like keep people on the payroll (and/or re-hire those just laid off) even if they're out sick/quarantined. Companies receiving funds are also prohibited from using the money for stock buybacks and dividends, etc...
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That's the basic observation. This is more socialism for the rich.
The part where I have my doubet is that this government would be exceptional in that respect.
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JFK Center for Performing Arts and other 'national security' issues like Boeing, amongst others.
There are also extra $500M funds for NASA and pretty much every government institution that exists.
There is a ton of money going to states and counties
Also there are >320M people in the US. 320M * 1200 = ~400B.
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Trump: "This proves the wall near Mexico won't be enough. We need a wall around the ENTIRE country including Alaska and Hawaii."
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What about Debt Island? Can we sell it to Cuba to pay for the wall?
What happens when a country files chapter 11? (Score:2, Informative)
"Trump has filed Chapter 11 bankruptcy for his companies six times. "
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Yeah, and that doesn't count how much he's in hock to the Russians. They won't give a flying rat's ass about Chapter 11. It's a bitch being Putin's Poodle.
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Please elaborate. What exactly do you think Putin can do to any current or former US president?
Let's suppose you're 100% correct about whatever it is that you think Trump "owes" Putin. Next suppose that Trump doesn't give a damn and completely ignores the supposed debt. Please describe Putin's next steps. What exactly does he do and why Trump should be shaking in his boots?
Why do you want to see people pee on Obama's bed? (Score:2)
> Release the "pee tape"?
Why, you want to see Russian hookers pee on Obama's bed? Even if we assume it was true, rather than a 4-chan invention, why would Trump be the so embarrassed to see Obama's bed get peed on by Russian hookers?
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A sovereign nation with fiat currency doesn't go bankrupt on debt in its own currency unless it's completely politically incapable. It will always be better to just pay off the debt with printed money (QE).
So it completely depends on how incapable congress is the next time the debt ceiling is hit. I think if they really let it get to the point of the US government becoming delinquent on bond payments, the president should declare martial law and put them out of their misery.
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They don't go bankrupt in the traditional way. Instead, the price of their bonds and currency falls out of bed. Generally, foreigners won't lend the country money because they're defaulting on bonds. They might try to "solve" this problem by printing more of their own currency, but this just leads to hyperinflation.
People are still buying our T-bills hand over fist so we're not there yet. In fact the T-bills are at historic low yields, ie, everybody wants them because they're amazingly still regarded as
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I think they want the T-bills because they can be used to buy oil, but yeah... that's also part of why we get stuck in the middle east nonsense all the time and lots of stupid wars...
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Yeah he did it because it made business sense. Look at the people who blew billions opening this place up only to close it in two years! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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Declaring six bankruptcies when running 500 businesses is a pretty fucking good track record.
The Trump Organization is a group of about 500 business entities of which Donald Trump is the sole or principal owner.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
20% of small businesses fail in their first year, 30% of small business fail in their second year, and 50% of small businesses fail after five years in business. Finally, 70% of small business owners fail in their 10th year in business.
Source: https://www.fund [fundera.com]
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how many businesses have you started and ran?
Are companies HQed in Tax Havens eligible? (Score:4, Interesting)
There is no incentive to say in usa and pay taxes. You dont have to chip in your share, but you can claim all the hand outs...
Dear millilenials... (Score:2)
Those of you who whined about the boomers...
If you supported this... you just did the same thing. Your children will be paying for this. We took a bad situation and just made it worse.
And to think... we are still not done fucking this up. Stay tuned folks... it going to get worse.
Oh the irony (Score:2)
Since sizeable part of the US debt is owned by China, and the US debt is essentially impossible to repay, the Chinese will pay for it.
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The US national debt stands at $23.1T, and China holds $1.07T, 4.6% of the total.
https://www.thebalance.com/who... [thebalance.com]
Question about non-dependent children (Score:2)
It sounded like every adult that isn't claimed as a dependent deduction on your taxes and has an SSN gets some stimulus money.
What about kids that are 17-18 and living at home finishing high school, didn't earn any taxable income in the last tax year, and you couldn't claim them as a dependent (they turned 17 too soon)? Do they get paid anything, and if so, how/when? Or are they SOL?
I just happen to have two kids in this "dead zone" of coverage (the older one is an 18 year old just got his first real tax-pa
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i read it myself and ... (Score:2)
You can read the bill yourself here.
"O:\HEN\HEN20312.xml [file 1 of 2]"
... that's some really weird xml right there!
OK. This is good Trump. (Score:2)
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You are getting a check simply because the problem of determining whether you should have one would add a lot of extra complexity in determining who really needs one (political mess pending), and in implementing a filter to enact that political decision.
For many of our countrymen, that could mean the difference between starvation, and survival.
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If you're making plenty of money this year, I think it ends up working out as a prepayment against your tax refund next year. Unless you're not due a refund, in which case it's somehow not owed back. It's very confusing.
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Wrong. Read the bill.
How long ralley do you get with 2 trillion (Score:2)
To be fair... (Score:2)
The John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts is a *crucial* component to the nation's economy. The country would be devastated if there were no forum to host the Mark Twain comedy awards.
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[T]he Kennedy Center is actually part of the federal government . . . In ordinary times, the federal dollars it receives can go only toward maintaining and operating its facility . . . But if the Kennedy Center cannot hold performances, most of that outside funding evaporates . . . The idea that the center should get some help in the bailout bill has bipartisan support. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) inserted $1 million in his initial bill
https://www.washingtonpost.com... [washingtonpost.com]
If you really hate deficits, ask your congressman to repeal Trump's trillion-dollar taxcuts!
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Tariffs count as taxes. It's the buyers of the goods paying them.
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Re:This is fantastic (Score:5, Insightful)
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That's what I've been telling people. If you don't want them money then at least spend it at a local business so they keep afloat.
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So I'm a bad person if I invest it all in discounted stocks?
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You're saying that people who don't like Trump have an ethical obligation not to feed their families? I'll bet you're great fun at parties.
Actually the can, more or less (Score:3)
This is about getting folk to stay home so our healthcare system doesn't collapse. That is all. 20% of the people who get it will need hospitalization. Our hospitals have been running with "Just in Time" staffing & stocking, meaning they do _not_ have the capacity. Meaning most of that 20% (15%-18%) will die.
70% of Americans get it if we do nothing. That's around 40 million dead. Try to imagine what that would mean. Around 5-10 million dea
Re: Well, I don't know about that ... (Score:3)
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Comments like this I think just reveal the limits of your own thinking. People tend to think others reason like they themselves do.
If you believe in absolutes, that running up the deficit and handing out welfare are always OK, then you'll mistakenly belie
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Trump with his background as a democrat really does not care about it and is happy to take follow their spending.
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More to the point, it was the state governments that told business to close. Trump cannot close much on his own regardless of his meritless claims to the contrary. And he cannot get them to open up again, on the state governors can do that.
Re: Well, that settles it -- (Score:2)
Good, we need the Green New Deal (Score:2)
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"Literally everything you ever posted said was bullshit."
FTFY
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This bill likely would not have been necessary with Clinton. Trump threw out playbook for dealing with this very scenario because Obama touched it even though Bush Jr's administration created it.
This administrations incompetence is truly astounding and I'm sorry people are dying as result. When you throw out as much institutional knowledge as Trump just about everything is bound to get screwed up. There are very few parts of the federal government that aren't demonstrably worse off directly due to business
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Translation: Trump cares more about what people think of him than about doing what he feels is best for the country.
100% true on both counts. What's the purpose of a political party other than to tell people what to think and how to vote? Can't h
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You are making assumptions that cannot be proven.
I think it can be proven with relative certainty that literally any other president in power right now, regardless of party, would have taken more heed from medical experts.
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Too bad it was signed with such short fingers. A bill that yuuuge deserves to be signed by big hands.