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The Courts Electronic Frontier Foundation Open Source

EFF Defends Bruce Perens Victory Against 'Open Source Security' in Appeals Court 30

Bruce Perens (Slashdot reader #3872) co-founded the Open Source Initiative with Eric Raymond in 1998. (And then left it this January 2nd.)

But in 2017 Perens was also sued partly over comments made in a Slashdot discussion. He's just shared a video from the 9th Circuit Appeals Court hearing -- along with this update: Open Source Security Inc. and their CEO, Mr. Bradley Spengler, sued me for 3 Million dollars for defamation, because I wrote this blog post, in which I explained why I thought they were in violation of the GPL. They lost in the lower court, and had to file this $300,000 bond to pay for my defense, which will be awarded to my attorneys if the appeals court upholds the lower court's finding.

Because OSS/Spengler are in Pensylvania and I am in California, this was tried before a Magistrate in Federal court, with the laws of California and the evidentiary rules of the Federal Court. Thus, I am now in the 9th Circuit for appeal.

The first attorney to appear is for OSS/Spengler. The second works for EFF, and the third for O'Melveny. In my opinion EFF and O'Melveny did a great job.

If you are interested in the case, I have a partial archive of the case documents from PACER, and a link to PACER where the rest can be found, here.
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EFF Defends Bruce Perens Victory Against 'Open Source Security' in Appeals Court

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  • Good (Score:5, Insightful)

    by geek ( 5680 ) on Saturday January 25, 2020 @10:54AM (#59655224)

    I hope Bruce beats their asses in court over and over and counter sues them for being the monumental pricks they are. GRSecurity is/was/will always be a scam.

    • Hope Bruce takes their ass-ets in court !!!

    • Yup. They like to shit all over the Linux kernel in their blog posts in order to push their own product which is derived from the Linux kernel. They also would rather NOT contribute back to mainline Linux by saying something in the patch discussions before they get merged. Perfect example of them being pricks and letting bugs make it into mainline without objecting and bragging about it: https://grsecurity.net/the_lif... [grsecurity.net]
    • Re:Good (Score:5, Insightful)

      by 2TecTom ( 311314 ) on Saturday January 25, 2020 @11:59AM (#59655366) Homepage Journal

      I hope Bruce beats their asses in court over and over and counter sues them for being the monumental pricks they are. GRSecurity is/was/will always be a scam.

      It's a shame that there aren't more people as principled as the proponents of open source. Open source software is one of the few bright spots in an apparently dark future.

      • Re:Good (Score:4, Informative)

        by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Saturday January 25, 2020 @12:11PM (#59655396) Homepage Journal

        You mean the people at the OSI who claim to have invented the term "Open Source" and who deliberately conflate open source with Free Software so as to inflate their own importance when it has been shown conclusively that they did not invent it and that the two are not interchangeable? I prefer people to be more principled than that.

        https://hyperlogos.org/blog/dr... [hyperlogos.org]

        • Me, I tend to support the Free Software side of things more. But it's disingenuous to imply that Free Software and Open Source don't have an overwhelming overlap.

          • It's disingenuous to suggest that free means without license. Due to the adoption of GPL and similar Licenses, the vast majority of Free software that might be used by a business will most definitely have a license. It's been this way for decades now.

            Good luck to anyone that wants to find commercial quality software that is Free, Open Source, and Without a License, because that "without a license" part does NOT include Linux.
          • Overlap? Yes. Overwhelming? Totally false. They are fundamentally different things, even though they have a lot in common.

  • Did the court say anything about whether Grsecurity violates the GPL? Or did they only determine that Bruce's opinion that they do is not defamation?

    I had a quick look at the links, but all I saw was legal procedures.

    • by Bruce Perens ( 3872 ) <bruce@perens.com> on Saturday January 25, 2020 @02:14PM (#59655692) Homepage Journal
      It's a defamation case. So, there will be findings about defamation, not about copyright.
      • by meerling ( 1487879 ) on Saturday January 25, 2020 @03:04PM (#59655822)
        True, but the claim of defamation is due to his pointing out their violation of the License and that makes them vulnerable to legal action.
        If his statements are factual, then it's not defamation in the US.
        Linux has a license, and if that company is doing what was said, they are in violation of the license, so that would then be a fact.
        As to the customers potentially being liable, well that's something that I have seen happen with cases where a companies customers have been sued for violations even though the violation was due to the company that sold it to them, so that's possible as well, and thus a fact.
        Looks pretty clear. The only thing that seems likely to muddy it up is incompetent lawyers, or throwing lawyers at the defendant until he can no longer defend himself.

        From what I hear though, the accussor having to put up that bond means the judge already things the defender is pretty much going to win.

        ianal. I could just be talking out my backside, but I have listened to a fair amount of lawyers talking on these types of things, so I at least know a few basic things to look out for. One of those I catch fairly often is Leonard French on youtube. His channel is Lawful Masses. He's a copyright lawyer, and also a gamer, so he often covers things in those arenas, but sometimes he talks about other legal matters, and even has other lawyers on for some subjects.
        Sorry this sounds like a plug for him, and maybe it's a half hearted one, but it's mostly pointing out that there are more palatable sources of actual case discussions and relevant law out there than just sitting in a court room or actually hiring a lawyer. (Just to be clear in case anyone doesn't get it, but these things aren't legal advice.)
      • by lkcl ( 517947 )

        It's a defamation case. So, there will be findings about defamation, not about copyright.

        and for defamation to be successful, there has to be a "false statement". did you happen, by any chance, with your maaany decades of experience in licensing and free software, make even the teeeniest slightest mistake, in any statement, that could be deemed "false"? mm?

    • Court didnt decide any gpl issues yet, but in OSS lawyers 3-min rebuttal, a judge acknowledged Perens interpretation may be incorrect. The appeal is to decide if there could be a defamation claim, not if its actual defamation worth 3million. EFF and Perens are the trolls seeking $300k under anti-SLAPP technicality, Spengler fully complies with gpl. Perens interpretation is wrong, but was it defamation?
      • Paying defendant attorney fees in a lost defamation case is a technicality? You'd think that would be one of the main aims of anti-SLAPP laws.

  • I miss Groklaw. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by McLae ( 606725 ) on Saturday January 25, 2020 @03:54PM (#59655958) Homepage
    Groklaw was able to put these proceedings in context and explain the issues. I understand this video due to Following Groklaw for years. Suing for defamation usually means two things: 1. The opinion is accurate and 2. business profits are affected.
  • That a secondary takeaway I got from this was "I have a lower uid then Bruce!"? Lol

  • by twocows ( 1216842 ) on Monday January 27, 2020 @11:04AM (#59660798)
    This seems like exactly the sort of thing that could reasonably land them on the wrong side of an anti-SLAPP lawsuit. Bruce wrote, in good faith, a blog posting about why he believed they were in violation of the GPL. OSS, not wanting to face public criticism from someone with a high profile, sued for defamation. This is the kind of thing anti-SLAPP laws are designed to deal with.

Children begin by loving their parents. After a time they judge them. Rarely, if ever, do they forgive them. - Oscar Wilde

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