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Censorship The Internet

Iran's Internet Freedom is On Life Support (cnet.com) 60

Posted by msmash from the meanwhile-elsewhere-in-the-world dept.
An anonymous reader shares a report: In November, Iran's government announced a price hike on oil, leading to mass protests in Tehran. To quell the spreading unrest, the Iranian government effectively shut down the internet. After a week of Iranian security forces cracking down on protesters, including an estimated death toll between 140 and 208, internet access was gradually restored around the country. Judging by statements made by President Hassan Rouhani, the internet shutdowns could be a harbinger of more censorship in 2020 and beyond. Iran's intranet, known as the National Information Network, will be expanded so "people will not need foreign [networks] to meet their needs," President Rouhani said to Iran's parliament on Sunday, according to Radio Farda. The decree to bolster the NIN comes from Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei himself, Rouhani said. Developing a more robust intranet would allow the Iranian government to cut access to the internet, and Iranians off from the rest of the world, without the economic self-impairment that internet cutoffs cause. An intranet would allow the Iranian government to select what sites and content Iranians can see, as opposed to the blunt and costly tool of a total shutdown.
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Iran's Internet Freedom is On Life Support More

Iran's Internet Freedom is On Life Support

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  • That it lasted this long.

  • Their what? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Brett Buck ( 811747 ) on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @03:58PM (#59505702)

    What kind of nonsense is this? Iran is a totalitarian theocracy, any notion that they ever had any freedom of any type is a delusion of the west. The concept doesn't exist.

        When they say that the West is a threat to their society, the notions of freedom, independence of thought, and basic human dignity is what they mean, far more than any physical damage we can do.

    • Re:Their what? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @04:18PM (#59505768)

      When they say that the West is a threat to their society, the notions of freedom, independence of thought, and basic human dignity is what they mean, far more than any physical damage we can do.

      Or perhaps they mean the violent overthrow of a democratically elected Iranian government by the CIA, and the decades-long American support for the brutal regime of Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi who imprisoned and tortured tens of thousands of Iranians.

      Not many Iranians associate American influence with "freedom" and "basic human dignity".

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by evanh ( 627108 )

        CIA makes Trump look like a virgin.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by tsqr ( 808554 )

        Are you sure about that? The median age in Iran is under 31. Nearly 50% of the population was under the age of 16 when the Shah was overthrown. Only 5% of the population was alive 65 years ago when Mosaddegh was deposed by coup in response to nationalization of the oil fields.

        • Nearly 50% of the population was under the age of 16 when the Shah was overthrown. Only 5% of the population was alive 65 years ago when Mosaddegh was deposed by coup in response to nationalization of the oil fields.

          How many have a grandfather or uncle who was imprisoned or tortured? People still fight wars today over things that happened hundreds of years ago, hoping for an independent Kurdistan or Khalistan or a Greater Serbia or Albania or whatever.

          Hatred lasts for generations.

      • Re:Their what? (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Kernel Kurtz ( 182424 ) on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @06:13PM (#59506108)

        Not many Iranians associate American influence with "freedom" and "basic human dignity".

        Exactly. And when our puppets are overthrown our own propaganda says look how evil this new person is, but mostly it is just meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Americans like to complain about Castro, but Somosa was not a nice guy either. Khameini is no worse than our erstwhile friend Pahlavi and his SAVAK. Pinochet was not an improvement over Allende for the thousands of desaparecidos. The people we support are better for us (and our corporate overlords). Better for the people who actually live there, not so much.

        Trump is buddy buddy with the Saudis and thinks Iran is evil, but there is really not much to choose between them. Many Saudis dislike America a lot for propping up their dictator, as recent news events can attest.

        When you meddle in people's lives in places you should not be, you will make a lot of enemies no matter which side you choose. It's downright funny seeing people who wonder why they hate us. Duh.

    • Re:Their what? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by kot-begemot-uk ( 6104030 ) on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @04:25PM (#59505798) Homepage

      What kind of nonsense is this? Iran is a totalitarian theocracy, any notion that they ever had any freedom of any type is a delusion of the west. The concept doesn't exist.

      When they say that the West is a threat to their society, the notions of freedom, independence of thought, and basic human dignity is what they mean, far more than any physical damage we can do.

      Freedom we promote like the one from People's Mujahedin of Iran? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

      You have very interesting concept of freedom...

      Freedom, dignity, etc is the last thing we are interested there. Our sole interest is regime change and by whom we do not care, even if it is by the Devil (or in that region Shaitan) himself. Same as in Syria.

    • What kind of nonsense is this? Saudi Arabia is a totalitarian theocracy, any notion that they ever had any freedom of any type is a delusion of the west. The concept doesn't exist.

      Makes just as much sense, but none of your military are itching to invade like they are for Iran. Why is that?

    • Re:Their what? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Impy the Impiuos Imp ( 442658 ) on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @05:05PM (#59505918) Journal

      This is why the US should not have an Internet "kill switch". The danger from abuse is far worse than some theoretical internet phone bomb phone call.

    • They were starting to mellow out (Score:4, Interesting)

      by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @06:34PM (#59506156)
      and there was progress happening. Then, well, Trump got elected and started trying to start a war again. We've been doing all sorts of nasty things to them in order to destabilize the country.

      Go back to the 60s before the US stuck their nose into Iran and you'll find pictures of girls in dresses. They only became a theocracy because of us. We overthrew their democratically elected gov't because we wanted their oil. When that happened the only safe place to plan a revolution was the mosques (the gov't survielence stayed out of the churches). Low and behold the successful revolution came from religious nut jobs.

      The moral of the story: No More Regime Change Wars. Remember that when you're voting in 2020.

      • Go back to the 60s before the US stuck their nose into Iran and you'll find pictures of girls in dresses.

        Sadly, you are now describing the time period when a 'Western puppet' known as the Shah ruled Iran. That period was long after the US had stuck their nose in Iran. The coup that installed the Shah was in 1953, and his 'westernizing' was rather despotic, and it also riled up the fundamentalists. When the 'revolution' in Iran occurred in 1979 there were all sorts of factions that could have taken power,

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by laird ( 2705 )

          Since 1941, Iran was a pro-American, western-style Democracy, with women getting educated, wearing western-style clothing, etc. The PM they overthrew led a secular Democracy, They didn't hate us, or turn fundamentalist until we made sure that they couldn't be a secular Democracy. It's hard to remember now, but the Arab world was all led by secular nationalists for quite a while. It was only after we overthrew all their governments that they redirected to fundamentalism and anti-Americanism.

  • They can do what they want. If Iranians don't like it they should set up their own internet.

    • They can do what they want. If Iranians don't like it they should set up their own internet.

      There is a very interesting analysis of this idea as well as how Iran handled the recent protests and the extent someone bigger like Russia or China can apply this at Novaya Gazeta. if you do not know the language you will need to peruse Google translate: https://novayagazeta.ru/articl... [novayagazeta.ru]

      There are some very interesting conclusions in that article as well as the article from the same author on Iran's unsuccessful attempt to suppress the Telegram messenger two years prior: https://novayagazeta.ru/articl... [novayagazeta.ru]

  • This is why the government shouldn't be an ISP (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ZorinLynx ( 31751 ) on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @04:16PM (#59505760) Homepage

    It seems that in all these countries that have serious Internet censorship problems, the government is effectively the ISP or runs all the ISPs. This is why I get concerned when I hear politicians say they're going to provide Internet for everyone, because when the government runs ISPs they have a lot more control over those ISPs and a lot more opportunities to censor the net.

    Some infrastructure is most effectively provided by government, such as public roads, bridges, etc. But government-run Internet sounds like a recipe for trouble. Let's keep it in the hands of private companies and just regulate those companies to prevent abuse.

    • Re:This is why the government shouldn't be an ISP (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Koreantoast ( 527520 ) on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @05:10PM (#59505936)
      Governments can just as easily move against corporations and quickly shut down ISP's in the name of national security. Certainly, it's more difficult in the West given the stronger rule of law and regulations, but even then, it's not hard for someone to quickly step in and shut it all down.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Dunbal ( 464142 ) *
      Government is listening anyway, even if they don't own the cables. Snowden told us that. So there's no need for state control of ISPs. They just bully the private companies into "co-operating"... or else bad things can happen what with secret courts and gag orders etc. The PATRIOT act took so much freedom away from Americans and most of them don't even realize it.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by laird ( 2705 )

        Right, in China the government doesn't own the ISPs, they just have laws in place that give them complete control. Their laws require government approval of any IP address, and if they don't like what you're doing they can take away your IP address, and if you keep operating without their permission they can (and do) send troops to the ISP and physically remove the offending servers. And if you're not physically in China, they can block all traffic to your site from China. And if you run a VPN or proxy so t

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by AHuxley ( 892839 )
      Want to be an ISP in any nation? The nations gov will set a long list of legal access demands.
      Dont meed the demands? The ability to "ISP" is removed..
      In the free West internet brands remove names, content, cartoons, politics, history, art, movie reviews, memes to project their side of US politics.
  • These two technologies need to be mandated in some World Wide bill of rights. Punishment would be direct removal of government officials trying to stop them. This has got to get done and everyone should have their own private equipment to get on a real Internet not one blockaded by their own worthless government. That means USA, Europe, China, Russia, damn near any religious ran gov, liberal cancel culture bullshit, anti business, anti humans, everywhere. Censorship needs to stop.

    • Mod parent down.

    • How many world wars are you willing to start to enforce this great idea? Not to mention you are suggesting fighting totalitarianism by inventing a "world standard" and then forcing everyone to comply with it!

      To quote my favorite movie - "Look, you want to save the world? You're the great humanitarian? Take the gun!"

    • There's something to be said about satellites being able to provide a partial work around, but that's easy to work around as well. Governments can simply follow the money (someone has to pay for them) and make examples of those using these systems. Or, a larger state like China, can simply use ASAT technologies (like lasers, dazzlers, jammers, etc.) to wreck havoc with civilian LEO constellations. As for punishments, I would like to see how you suggest removing say, a senior US bureaucrat, a Chinese Politbu

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Dunbal ( 464142 ) *
        Follow the money only works to some extent. At some point you can have Bob in Iran bartering with Charlie in Iran (no money involved), and then Charlie selling the goods to Daniel for cash, etc. Sure, if you are paying SpaceX Internet Ltd. directly with your credit card it's easy to track. But the harsher the rules, the more likely you are to get gray and black markets. Those usually operate with cash, barter or favors.

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by AHuxley ( 892839 )
          Re "Follow the money only works to some extent."
          Find the turck, van making a bulk sat tech delivery?
          The driver gets the full "punishment" or is given a way out.
          The computer "shop" has to give names of everyone who got sold the "parts"
          Anyone who got a delivery of the sat "parts" and internet sat "tech" gets found.
          Most nations "police" have decades of informants in any "gray and black markets"...

          Re "cash, barter or favors" dont stop police setting up a consumer electronics shop that sells sat tech

    • These two technologies need to be mandated in some World Wide bill of rights. Punishment would be direct removal of government officials trying to stop them...That means USA, Europe, China, Russia, damn near any religious ran gov, liberal cancel culture bullshit, anti business, anti humans, everywhere. Censorship needs to stop.

      Amen. But rather than depending on "rule of law" to eventually punish censors, let's get a global satellite Internet working. You could only censor it by shooting down satellites faster than Elon Musk can send them up. Good luck with that.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Dunbal ( 464142 ) *
        If you're a government you have the resources to resort to jamming if you really want people off the satellite net. Possibly less fallout (no pun intended) than shooting down satellites.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Dunbal ( 464142 ) *

      World Wide bill of rights

      This kind of idea has already been tried twice - first in the League of Nations and second in the United Nations. Both times it has failed (and the UN HAS failed), for exactly the same reason - no one is willing to give such a body the authority to enforce its legislation and mandates. So you can dream about world wide rights all you want, but it's never going to happen.

    • To my knowledge, your solution would include removal of government in France, UK and Switzerland.

  • Time to invade and give them some of that freedoms!

  • Speaking of which, have I shown you my Free Guy visor yet?

    It's cool.

    Excuse me while I reset.

  • Is anyone surprised by this? Back when techno-optimists talked about how the Internet would break down barriers and remove borders, critics rightly said that nation-states, in all their resources and power, were going to push back to protect their sovereignty and monopoly on power. Iran is the most blunt given that you can just hire dudes to cut the cables and shut down key choke points, but China has shown how you can elegantly deal with this.

  • I live in Iran and it was depressing (Score:5, Informative)

    by Oasis1701 ( 5555438 ) on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @05:13PM (#59505946)
    It was not depressing because i did not have internet access to the world for an entire week. It was depressing because after they restored access i realized that they were very successful at 1. silencing the protests by cutting communications. 2. they shot protesters at point blank in some instances used choppers or snipers set up on rooftops to shoot peacefull protesters and after a few days used security cameras to arrest people who were using phones to record the events; therefore cutting down on the info the world media had on what is going on; therefore belittling the horrible things that went on here around the world. most people in the world don't really know what went on here in those bloody days the info slowly released after the internet was restored so it all did not matter at the end. perfectly executed Iranian regime.
  • Will this power to shut down the internet at least partly go away when Elon Musk gets the constellation of LEO satellites up and countries can't block it?

  • our western politicians will persist in demanding that encryption must be back-doored (or similar) by our police, spooks, etc.

    Although I hope not: all of us are only a few elections away from a government that will use broken encryption from finding and locking up those who do not agree with it -- China is already there. I hope that I am overly pessimistic, I fear that I might not be.

    For the record I live in England.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Dunbal ( 464142 ) *

      demanding that encryption must be back-doored

      I have a sneaky feeling that it already is. Remember when VeriSign and other certificate authorities were hacked and the root certificates "stolen"? Guess who...

  • Hopefully, these could make a difference, though it will be at least another year before it is ready for them.

  • Iran is a dictatorship, a theocratic dictatorship. There is no freedom.

    It's always bizarre reading naive westerners write about stuff like this. They think their own governments (at any rate, when run by their political oppositions) are dictatorships, while they are baffled by actual dictatorships.

  • The notion that there is, or ever was, any kind of Internet "freedom" at all is completely wrong.

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