Hacking Lawyers or Journalists Is Totally Fine, Says Notorious Cyberweapons Firm (gizmodo.com) 113
The founder and CEO of NSO Group, the notorious Israeli hacking company with customers around the world, appeared on CBS's 60 Minutes Sunday night to defend the use of his company's tools in hacking and spying on lawyers, journalists, and minors when the country's customers determine the ends justify the means. From a report: NSO Group has reportedly sold hacking tools to dictators including those in Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and across Central Asia -- a group of decision-makers whose track record includes numerous examples of human rights abuses and oppression of dissent. NSO's tools have been directly involved in the arrest of human rights activists and, in Mexico at least, spying on lawyers and journalists in an effort to catch the drug lord Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman. "In order to catch El Chapo, for example, they had to intercept a journalist, an actress, and a lawyer," NSO Group founder Shalev Hulio told 60 minutes. "Now, by themselves, they are not criminals, right? But if they are in touch with a drug lord and in order to catch them, you need to intercept them, that's a decision an intelligence agency should get."
We support these criminals? (Score:5, Insightful)
Funny how the very countries which are suppressing freedom of speech and freedom of religion are being supported in their efforts by a country which Christians support without reservation. It's almost as if they're blind to their support of this repression while at the same time complaining about the repression.
And don't forget, your tax dollars are going to a country which has its own version of apartheid.
I guess for a few pieces of silver it's easy to abandon ones principles.
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Christians support without reservation
As a Christian, what I can say without reservation is that your straw man is lacking in integrity. (I..e, it's full of holes.)
There are many, many Christians who have serious problems with Israel's human rights record. We do not unanimously support Israel.
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Likud = terrorist organization historically true (Score:1)
That's factual. Nyutty-yahoo just casually declared that "only jews" are citizens of Israel now. That cements him as a military occupier, and makes his bullshit about pretending to seek peace for 2-3 decades as 100% bullshit.
Likud is a terrorist organization. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun
Once that history is known, everything else falls into place.
Pgmrdlm the excuse-making nazi coward again? (Score:1)
^ Found the excuse-making nazi coward who advocates undermining rule of law and human rights for "righteous revenge" lol? Idiot, Israel is under less of a threat of being "wiped" off the map than your fiscally insolvent red state.
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Whatever, I have found in this case that the only way to judge this is based on the actions of the parties involved.
I find neither the actions of Israel nor some of the Arab actors to be defensible.
As such, I support neither cause.
But I am also completely willing to condemn Israel's complete lack of regard for civilian life, or that they keep taking land to satisfy their own hard liners.
I'm afraid that hard-line Israelis
Re: Pgmrdlm the excuse-making nazi coward again? (Score:2)
Found the cunt liberal who advocates the destruction of Israel and all of it's citizens.
May I suggest toning-down the bullshit a tad? Your desperation's showing.
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You really are a stupid mother fucker then. How would you feel asshole living in a nation where every other nation bordering yours wants you to all die.
I can't imagine what it would be like to live someplace where ALL my neighbors want me to move out and or drop dead. That must suck hard for you son.
Oh wait, you are a bigot and want Israel to be wiped off the face of the earth.
And just like Israel the reason you are so disliked has nothing to do with bigotry. It has everything to do with your own behavior.
All it citizens killed. We get it bigot.
It takes a bigot to know a bigot.
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"There are many, many Christians who have serious problems with Israel's human rights record. We do not unanimously support Israel." AND JEWS ALSO, one might be forced to add as if omitted...
Israel's government is not the seat of Judaism. Israel's record of human rights abuses ongoing undermines any US legitimacy as our "allies" undermine our positions on human rights efforts worldwide.
This has nothing to do with religion, other than the apparent Trumptarded religious-esque belief that Likud=IRGUN can do
Re:We support these criminals? (Score:5, Insightful)
International relations is very complex. The reason why we have different countries, is because there are different areas of the world that wants to be ruled and rule differently then others. Also every country seems to do something that everyone else will find immoral, wrong, or just pure evil.
The cost of peace is to allow evil. Otherwise we will be dictating our version of good (with our own evil) onto people by force. Which tends to not be welcomed, often is expensive, and prevents further common goods to be followed.
The cost of freedom, means we sometimes will need to allow criminals to go unpunished. Not because we support the criminals, but because we value our freedoms so much that we do not want such extra measures used against us. When people say they are willing to risk their lives for freedom, they are often thinking going to war to protect it. But often we need people to risk their lives in protecting the freedom even though such freedom makes their lives more dangerous, and unsafe.
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The problem here is not a live and let live attitude, the problem is when we provide material support.
Re:We support these criminals? (Score:4, Insightful)
International relations is very complex. The reason why we have different countries, is because there are different areas of the world that wants to be ruled and rule differently then others. Also every country seems to do something that everyone else will find immoral, wrong, or just pure evil.
We have different countries because of the balance of military powers. Many times in history those conquered were forced to adapt to the dominant culture, or die.
The cost of peace is to allow evil. Otherwise we will be dictating our version of good (with our own evil) onto people by force. Which tends to not be welcomed, often is expensive, and prevents further common goods to be followed.
We tolerate evil because all too often it is the profitable and self serving thing to do. For example, we couldn't care less about the cannibal warlords of Liberia, but Syria's leader is a brutal dictator who needs to be removed. Evil is the excuse, not the reason, for many geopolitical actions.
The cost of freedom, means we sometimes will need to allow criminals to go unpunished. Not because we support the criminals, but because we value our freedoms so much that we do not want such extra measures used against us. When people say they are willing to risk their lives for freedom, they are often thinking going to war to protect it. But often we need people to risk their lives in protecting the freedom even though such freedom makes their lives more dangerous, and unsafe.
That sounds nice and reasonable, but I'm not sure what that has to do with the US becoming a vassal state to Israel. I mean, there has to be a reason why all our candidates for POTUS have to go before AIPAC to confess their undying love just in order to be electable. There has to be a reason why we tithe billions of dollars to a small foreign state who we protect militarily at great expense, instead of the other way around. Then there's the rampant industrial espionage activity by Mossad that seems to go unchecked. Something tells me that all of this has nothing to do with preserving freedom.
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Israel and USA is a symbiotic system. We need *someone* to be in the middle-east as our agent to keep them "busy" fighting. And Israel needs money/arms to continue to exist. USA does this everywhere. In Asia, they support Pakistan, a known terror-sponsoring state for decades to keep India (USSR aligned) in check. Now that India is more US aligned and capitalistic, USA is happy to supply arms to India, turn a stern eye to Pakistan, and use India has a hedge against China. For that matter, why do we pro
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The US doesn't need Isreal in the ME to stir the pot when there's Saudi Arabia. Not only does SA buy US arms, they're bombing Yemen right now. As the head of OPAC, they ensure that the money printing presses keep running thanks to the petrodollar. What exactly is the symbiotic relationship with Israel, other than to outsource intelligence ops that would make our own CIA blush?
It is all a game of checks-and-balances to keep the world just enough on the edge of stability but always teetering with the threat of war/terrorism that can only be solved with US support. This is how colonialism works post WW2. That is why we need such overwhelming firepower in our military so no one can come even close to challenging us.
Que bono. The military industrial complex is just as happy to take US taxpayer money as it is from foreign countries. Protecting the
Re: We support these criminals? (Score:1)
Please call back after you've said the same thing about all American weapons manufacturers and defense contractors too -- are they responsible when a soldier or police officer wrongfully kills someone? When a drone strike has collateral damage? For misuse of PRISM etc against the American public? What about Facebook and Twitter and Google's YouTube for helping the Russians cause civil unrest over here by targeting gullible civilians of all professions?
Idiot. Go be outraged at someone else.
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Israel is supported by Christians because of the Abrahamic covenant that they are Gods chosen people. Think about it; The Jewish people are the most persecuted race ever seen, yet the most intelligent and wealthy. What’s the chance 4000 year old stories would prophesy correctly the fate of a tiny nation.
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Proof of this? Seriously, I have seen this presented as "fact" without any actual proof.
The BDS movement was started by Omar Barghouti. Yeah, he is a victim of "apartheid" all right, since he went to "Tel Aviv University." I guess that they forgot about their apartheid when they admitted him. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
I have a friend in Israel. He has Muslim friends, and tells me that one of his frie
Re:We support these criminals? (Score:5, Insightful)
Proof of this? Seriously, I have seen this presented as "fact" without any actual proof.
Hafrada
I have a friend in Israel. He has Muslim friends, and tells me that one of his friends won't get an Israeli citizenship -- because if he does, he will not be allowed into many neighboring countries, like Syria.
Hell your screwed if you merely have an Israeli stamp on your passport.
Yes, the Palestinians have a rough time. But that is because they keep on trying to kill Jews. What do you expect, for the Jews to just say "murder as many of us as you want?"
If some other country say China was occupying my country and exerting colonial rule, stealing property and shit.. I would probably be building rockets too.
What sealed the deal for me on this permanently was the asymmetry. In a single hour of military maneuvers Israelis managed to kill more people than the combined sum of deaths from ALL rocket attacks on Israel in modern history.
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You do know how Israel GOT that land, right? If you don't want your land taken over, then DON'T TRY TO INVADE YOUR NEIGHBOR! If America tried to invade Canada, and we got our butts kicked, I would not blame them for claiming a little of our border as a buffer zone.
And it is good to know that you justify random murdering of civilians. Killing Jews is OK, but killing Palestinians isn't. All the Palestinians want is just one more Holocaust -- and just a little one. Just kill 6.75 million Jews, and they wo
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But you forgot one thing. Israel does not TRY to target civilians. They go after the headquarters of the people launching the rockets. Palestinians are just happy to kill any Jews. Civilians are perfectly fine targets.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/2000/07/16/baraks-separate-peace/a7beab75-2478-4c2e-8db8-e9d79281db84/ [washingtonpost.com]
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Proof of this? Seriously, I have seen this presented as "fact" without any actual proof.
I noticed you blithely ignored the very real evidence already posted regarding hafrada, in amongst justifying the murder of palestinian civilians.
But since you're still bleating on about proof: It's enshrined in their fucking law. Is that enough fucking proof for you?
https://www.theguardian.com/wo... [theguardian.com]
What do you expect, for the Jews to just say "murder as many of us as you want?"
I don't give a flying fuck what the Jews do. I expect the Government of Israel to stop killing civilians, to withdraw from illegally held territories and to stop fucking settling in them, displacing the native
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Does the passage of time make you a native population and the descendents of people pushed out not?
It is the failure of the Palestinians and the wider Muslim population in especially the middle east to accept they don't have exclusive rights to the land that has lead them to the position they are in today.
The Muslim's conquered what is now Israel. If that makes them the native population then we have to accept morally that anyone let alone the descendants of those pushed out by that conquest have the right
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"Hafrada" has nothing to do with the mainland nation itself. Nothing.
The "illegally held territories" are a result of an ILLEGAL INVASION where the neighbors wanted to WIPE OUT THE JEWS. Yeah, it is like that, but that does not matter to you. You think that Jewish lives are worthless. Don't want your land taken? Don't start a war! It really is that simple (to most people). But apparently staging an invasion shouldn't have any consequences. Remember what happened to Germany after WW1 and WW2? Why is
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"Hafrada" has nothing to do with the mainland nation itself. Nothing.
Israeli policies are nothing to do with Israel? That's an interesting argument you've posited there but it doesn't even pass the laugh test.
The "illegally held territories" are a result of an ILLEGAL INVASION where the neighbors wanted to WIPE OUT THE JEWS.
"Oh no, they're invading. Quick, invade and occupy their lands and settle them, forcing out their peoples" is illegal under international law. Stop making fucking excuses.
Yeah, it is like that, but that does not matter to you.
Indeed. Had Israel invaded, held for a period of 3-4 years to assure the threat had subsided then withdrawn they'd be in a far stronger moral position. They didn't.
You think that Jewish lives are worthless.
Could you quote the sentence or sente
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[_] Lawyers
[_] Journalists
[x] Both Lawyers and Journalists
[_] Cowboy Neil
Sleazebag (Score:2)
"Notorious cyberweapons firm" is getting pwned (Score:2)
"Notorious cyberweapons firm" is getting pwned in 3..2..1..
It is rare to see true, unashamed evil (Score:5, Insightful)
This person has not even the decency to be minimally ashamed for his hugely negative contribution to the human endeavor. That is the face of tomorrow, if we do not stop it. That is the kind of person that would have done really well in the 3rd Reich. That is, if he had made it past the race laws.
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I have seen the graves. It happened. Go away Nazi scum.
Actually, it's a war crime (Score:2)
Just saying.
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3 eyes and subsequent (what are they up to now about '16 eyes'?).
Ship sailed in the 1940s. Odds are good you are affected.
We've been being spied on by our nation's ally's spooks for our entire lives. Hi GCHQ, how's the weather in merry old Yobistan? (or is it the Boganistan shift?)
Or in other words... (Score:2)
...lawyers, journalists, and the guardians of minors should understand that there's not some magical sacred boundary protecting them from what EVERYONE ELSE is vulnerable to.
I mean, they never SHOULD have considered themselves in any way inviolate, but knowing both some lawyers and journalists, they're both professions that think rather highly of their own importance, so perhaps the reminder is useful?
What's next, telling politicians that they're not special?
Cracking for fun and profit (Score:2)
Watched 60 minutes interview last night. It was hard to watch.. At one point Shalev did the whole evil laugh thing while uttering something about not believing the newspapers.
To me personally it isn't a shock or surprise to find grey hats selling their souls for money. Personally I've never believed in the existence of any meaningful distinction between grey and black hats to begin with. What is much harder to fathom was why Shalev was allowed to get anywhere near a camera in the first place.
Click Bait Title + No Universal Definition of "Tot (Score:2, Interesting)
As someone that is presently in Ukraine, and has been to Russia, and Belarus, over the past week, I can tell you that there is no universal definition of "totally fine." To present one in some course of action is to presume that your definition of "totally fine" is the acceptable one (totally fine), which presupposes that all other definitions are incorrect.
This line of reasoning is very similar to the case of when your neighbor is morbidly obese, and going to die from their lifestyle choices, and you decid
Re:Click Bait Title + No Universal Definition of " (Score:5, Insightful)
>The United States is not in control of Israel, or of those dictatorships, and should not act as the world's police, in order to project our values onto an unwilling audience.
That may be a good ideal - but the U.S. helped create the modern nation of Israel from the spoils of WWII, and we keep it afloat via ongoing funding and military support. That makes us personally responsible for their actions. If we don't like what they're doing, we should stop supporting them. But we like having a consistently loyal location for military bases in the middle of the Middle East, and indirect genocide and other dirty dealings of all kinds are our military's stock in trade, so nothing is likely to change so long as the oil deposits in the region remain valuable.
>This is effectively American foreign policy.
No, it really isn't. America's foreign policy has nothing to do with spreading our values, and everything to do with expanding our power and influence. We routinely aid in the overthrowing of uncooperative democracies in order to install totalitarian dictators that will further those goals, and look the other way as the governments we support engage in genocide and other atrocities (just look at what we allowed from Saddam Hussein after we installed him in power - it wasn't until he stopped cooperating that we finally replaced him.
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Tell you what, let me know when we finally get around to doing the right thing - I haven't seen it yet.
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Thing is that for much of the early history of Israel the USA did not provide military aid. In fact it was only the selling of advanced fighter aircraft to Iraq by the USSR in 1962 that it started to do so. The major turning point was the Six-Day War of 1967, with the nail in the coffin being the Yon Kippur war in 1973. Up until that point the main source of arms was France.
Much of the continuing support is because Israel is a fantastic test bed for new weapon technologies in actual combat operations. Where
Israelis don't know the first thing about ethics (Score:4, Insightful)
Israelis should be pretty low on the list of people we shoud listen to to tell us what is OK or not, ethically.
They're the closest thing to Nazi Germany today (Score:1)
And I'm saying that as a German Jew.
Seriously, my grandparents, one of which died in a concentration camp, would be the very first to condemn Israel for what it is.
Funny, how Jesus's main point was, that you should *not* harm others, even if, and especially if, they harmed you. For you would end up being just the same. And what did we learn? Nothing. We hung him. --.--
To me, humans are still a loong way away from being a developed, let alone "sapiens"-deserving, species.
Another reason to stay away from you-know-who (Score:1)
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You know Intel has fabs in Israel, right?
Problem (Score:2)
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In the US we desperately need to know about all kinds of things going on in government.
Yes we do. Especially what the actors in the last administration were doing while a sympathetic press was also helping to provide cover. But I fear it would make no difference to those who still profess ignorance on something so basic as to how POTUS is elected.
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