Texas Lawmakers Want To Stop Tesla From Fixing Its Own Cars (electrek.co) 255
In Texas the local car dealer lobby has blocked Tesla from selling its cars directly to customers. They're using old laws meant to prevent car manufacturers from competing with their own local dealers -- but Tesla never had any local dealers!
And according to Electrek, it gets worse... Despite this issue, Texans have bought thousands of Tesla vehicles, which the automaker delivers from other states to comply with the law. Tesla has been able to service those vehicles through its own service centers, which are not subject to those same direct-sale rules, but now dealers are even going after Tesla's right to service its cars.
Quartz offers some additional coverage: At issue is a battle over money. Car dealers derive much of their revenue from selling and (especially) servicing vehicles. Tesla's direct-to-customer sales and service stations are a threat to that business model since they cut dealers out of the transaction.
And according to Electrek, it gets worse... Despite this issue, Texans have bought thousands of Tesla vehicles, which the automaker delivers from other states to comply with the law. Tesla has been able to service those vehicles through its own service centers, which are not subject to those same direct-sale rules, but now dealers are even going after Tesla's right to service its cars.
Quartz offers some additional coverage: At issue is a battle over money. Car dealers derive much of their revenue from selling and (especially) servicing vehicles. Tesla's direct-to-customer sales and service stations are a threat to that business model since they cut dealers out of the transaction.
Ah yes. Good 'ol Texas (Score:5, Insightful)
The state which prides itself on getting big government out people lives until the people need the power of big government to kill competition.
Re:Ah yes. Good 'ol Texas (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Ah yes. Good 'ol Texas (Score:2, Insightful)
Itâ(TM)s not big oil. Thereâ(TM)s plenty of uses of oil and plenty of demand elsewhere for their product to not worry about the the threat from Tesla to theTexas auto market. Especially since they donâ(TM)t offer a truck.
No this is all big dealerships pushing this. If they sold electric cars, theyâ(TM)d still be pushing this as they are an entrenched interest trying to use regulators to force a competitor out of the market.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Except that rather than $20k every 5 years, we're on track for $10k every 15. An amortized $1k/year is less than what I spend on gasoline.
https://www.plugincars.com/tes... [plugincars.com]
https://cleantechnica.com/2018... [cleantechnica.com]
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
Let's get to the future before we make predictions on future costs without taking inflation and scarcity of materials to build the batteries into account.
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, exactly.
Why speculate on battery prices. Worst case you will be spending 20K after 5 years. It is should be acceptable risk for most people buying a Tesla. You still get to enjoy 5 years with an incredible vehicle.
Re: Ah yes. Good 'ol Texas (Score:2, Interesting)
I figure this would be the kind of thing that Democrats would like since it forces automakers to pay out more money to workers. Car makers can't provide certain firmware updates over the air in most states because it's considered repair work. So what happens instead is they have to pay a dealership to manually install the update, thus giving a mechanic more work. Classic example of featherbedding, which unions also love forcing on businesses, in order to slow things down so that people have to pay more so t
Re:Ah yes. Good 'ol Texas (Score:5, Insightful)
The state which prides itself on getting big government out people lives until the people need the power of big government to kill competition.
Let me explain: Big government doing something I don’t like or stopping me from doing something: Big government bad; doing something that benefits me or stops someone else from doing something I disapprove of: Big government good
Re: (Score:2)
It's not even big government as a small government can still stop you from doing something.
Re: Ah yes. Good 'ol Texas (Score:3)
You don't understand what the term "big government" means in the context of the USA. It isn't specifically referring to size, and it typically only refers to the federal government. People have less of an issue with government overreach at the state and municipal levels since you can always move cities or states; moving to another country is a lot harder.
Re: (Score:2)
Well here it is the government of Texas that is being talked about and I haven't noticed any suggestions of just moving to a different State.
Politicians are always going to be open to being corrupted, which is the actual problem, and moving can only help so much as they'll be politicians wherever you move. At least with democracy you can change governments when they get too full of shit, which always seems to happen.
Re: (Score:2)
Given that unless you have really unusual circumstances you're probably buying a car from a dealer no more often than once every two years, and that worst case you could buy your car from out of state to avoid giving money to the local dealers, I'd say that moving out isn't the right option.
Writing your state representatives to urge them to remove the liberal union-supporting anti-freedom laws(remember, Texas lawmakers, gotta hit their hot buttons) along with a generous donation to their campaign funds(beca
Re: (Score:2)
While this is true, a fair number of people are also uncomfortable with state powers since currently we see 2 manifestations where it goes beyond state borders
1) State economic power leading to defacto regional or even national standards. California is a great example of this. Ostensibly, they set their own emissions standards, and their own standards for textbooks. But in practices, their rules cover the bulk of the market, so many simply adhere to those rules universally, effectively making them the rules
Re: Ah yes. Good 'ol Texas (Score:2)
I'm not a fan of government overreach at any level, let alone this kind of blatant pandering to special interests. Just pointing out that he's misunderstanding the term.
Re: (Score:2)
Ostensibly, they set their own emissions standards, and their own standards for textbooks. But in practices, their rules cover the bulk of the market, so many simply adhere to those rules universally, effectively making them the rules/standards for everyone else
"California Emissions" became the standard when several other states passed laws to follow California's standards. It was not market forces that caused car manufacturers to "default" to California emissions, it took legislation in several states to make that happen.
Before those laws passed, CA was the outlier where people had to pay several hundred extra for their cars to get the "California Emissions" package.
Textbooks are also not dominated by California because each district in CA buys its own books. W
Re: (Score:3)
The epitomy of small government, MONARCHY, so how does everyone feel about a government of '1', that owns everyone else and well, if you disagree, the would publicly torture your to death.
Democratic Government is meant to be absolutely huge it should include everyone. The bullshit about small government, people can believe any kind of anti-themselves, lets all forget the logic of a government of the people, by the people and for the people, ohh no they want small government, the government of the few, by t
Re: (Score:2)
Some believe the benevolent dictator is the best form of government and sometimes it does work well, but there is alway the succession problem.
As for democracy having everyone involved, most people just don't have time to be informed about everything and are just as likely to be mis-informed.
Not sure why Texas is being picked out (Score:5, Informative)
Not sure if you think you're being cute (Score:5, Insightful)
And how many states are enforcing those laws against Tesla? That's the only thing relevant here, and Texas is the only state making noises about blocking not just sales, but repairs.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Uh huh. Just like how after the first state explicitly banned gay marriage, the other 49 immediately followed suit. Every last one. Because reasons.
Re:Not sure why Texas is being picked out (Score:4, Insightful)
That's a complete horse-shit article.
It just waves its hands saying all the states have these laws. My state doesn't. It doesn't explain that in any way.
The reason it is obviously blatant lies is that it gives a category for what laws it is talking about, but then doesn't define who is included in the category. So any state with any law that says anything about that category of situations is included.
It would seem from the wording they use that Tesla wouldn't be allowed to run their own dealships; except that there aren't any details that would let you judge that. And of course that's because they're simply using misleading wording to trick you. To trick you. Not to trick me; I knew they didn't give me details, simply because I didn't find any details. And I don't put any value in their conclusions, only in their arguments. And they didn't make any.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
The state which prides itself on getting big government out people lives until the people need the power of big government to kill competition.
Has the GOP been consistent in any way between (a) what is says, and (b) what laws it passes when elected? At least when it comes to economic issues? Seems to me they talk to 'grassroots' folks, but walk to the plutocrats once in.
Perhaps they're more consistent with regards to social issues? Though the Right has the religious folks who think drugs are bad, and also tend to have many laissez-faire / libertarian folks who thing "let people do whatever"--so the tent is a bit confused in that regard.
Re: (Score:2)
Perhaps they're more consistent with regards to social issues?
Not at all. You need to keep giving reasons for those people to show up at the polls.
Re: Ah yes. Good 'ol Texas (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Most of the members of the auto dealer association aren't even local themselves. It's pay to win government at its finest.
Re:Ah yes. Good 'ol Texas (Score:5, Insightful)
Texas will turn purple by 2028 at the latest and we'll finally be able to put all of this nonsense behind us once
This is not a Red vs. Blue issue. Plenty of Blue states have anti-competitive protection for dealers.
Deep blue Connecticut and New York protect dealers, as do crimson red Utah and Oklahoma.
Cronyism, corruption, and rent-seeking are nonpartisan.
Re: (Score:3)
Cronyism, corruption, and rent-seeking are nonpartisan.
In this case it's not so much about those things, rather it's mostly just about age. Those laws were enacted to protect dealers during the great depression, when the manufacturers were exploiting their relationship to force the dealers to buy inventory that they knew wasn't going to sell.
Re: (Score:2)
This new proposed bill is not an old law, though.
Re: (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
It's like arguing over whether it's the cruel overlord's lash or cane is worse. Get rid of the cruel overlord and you don't have to worry about it.
Re:Ah yes. Good 'ol Texas (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course it matters if you want to fix the problem. First you need to identify the problem. Which in this case seems to be corruption and not big government as you can have a really small government that does nothing but protect business interests.
One possible fix might be to limit bribery, but that means intruding on peoples freedom.
Re: (Score:2)
Of course it matters if you want to fix the problem. First you need to identify the problem. Which in this case seems to be corruption and not big government as you can have a really small government that does nothing but protect business interests.
Well said.
One possible fix might be to limit bribery, but that means intruding on peoples freedom.
Now I'm confused. You want to limit bribery? I see no virtue in it existing at all. (I assume you mean bribery of elected officials. People go to jail when that happens.)
As for it intruding on peoples' freedoms, I can only assume you mean limiting the freedom of people (or corporations) to contribute to political campaigns. Contributions are the only kind of "bribe" I can see fitting the situation. There are already laws that limit campaign contributions. But alas, SCOTUS has ruled [wikipedia.org] that individual
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, I mostly meant limiting donations, to individuals, parties and Super Pacs. There's other types of bribery as well such as the revolving door where politicians are promised (could just be implied) a good easy job after supporting the employers interests.
Re: (Score:2)
First you need to identify the problem. Which in this case seems to be corruption and not big government as you can have a really small government that does nothing but protect business interests.
Yeah, except whose business interests, and what about the interests of the customer?
Tesla actively fights against any repairs done by non-Tesla workers and will disable features on what is presumably your car but honestly if they can decided you should have bought Tesla tires and disable your car until you do + pay a hefty recertification fee, is it ever really yours?
So sure, demanding that other dealerships should be able to repair Teslas might not be in Tesla's business interests, but is it in the cust
Re: Ah yes. Good 'ol Texas (Score:5, Insightful)
The issue is not that the GM, Ford, or Chrysler dealers want to fix Teslas, it's that they want to make life miserable for anyone that buys a car from someone like Tesla.
Tesla has showrooms in Texas, and they deliver and service cars in Texas, but they can't sell you a car in-person in Texas.
The big three automakers want to make buying/owning a Tesla difficult, to make their products more appealing.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Bullshit. The 'big three automakers' don't give two fucks. The DEALERSHIPS, of which there are MANY, care a great deal, because they are the ones who stand to lose money.
Re: (Score:3)
Not giving a fuck is not the same thing as happily letting someone else fight your battle for you. You're right this is dealership's fault. You're wrong that the big 3 don't give a fuck let alone two.
Mobile repair seems like an awesome service to me (Score:3)
I really like the thought of not having to take a car in for service, that someone can just come out and repair it.
One thing I've wondered is how the fix some things without a real lift - like if they need to replace some parts of the suspension. Seems like they would still have to take it to a real shop for some more advanced repairs.
Since an electric car is generally simpler. I had been wondering what kinds of repairs people were even calling in...
My car mechanic (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: My car mechanic (Score:2, Interesting)
It will be exciting seeing old vintage cars being brought back to life by converting them to electric. There is a business here and it is already happening in Europe.
Re:My car mechanic (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't see the switch being all *that* quick. The big blocker for Tesla, I think, is still charging. I would likely have bought a Tesla already... If I already owned my own house and could have the home charger installed. But alas, I rent right now. Driving to the nearest supercharger every time I need a juice up is in no way practical. And I suspect that there are a great many people who are in a similar situation.
Now, buying a home is on my near-to-mid-term horizon. But then there's the problem that I will *just* have bought a HOUSE. And dropping another $50-100K on a car would be significantly less reasonable... at least until 2021, at the earliest, when 45 could be expunged from the White House and the mortgage and itemized tax deductions, which he gutted, could be restored.
Now... If Tesla were, instead of just superchargers which really only solve the "road trip" problem, to buy one of the major gas station brands and convert it to superchargers chain-wide... I think *THAT* will be the watershed moment that will cause the quick switch of the general masses to electric.
Re: My car mechanic (Score:2)
at least until 2021, at the earliest, when 45 could be expunged from the White House and the mortgage and itemized tax deductions, which he gutted, could be restored.
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that to happen - after collecting increased federal taxes from high-tax California, New York, New Jersey and other states, federal lawmakers will drag their feet to give up that revenue stream.
Besides, I think the earliest it could happen would be 2025, but that's a different story.
You know, assuming this issue is as reviled as you believe it is, it could be repealed by veto-proof majorities in the House and Senate.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Now... If Tesla were, instead of just superchargers which really only solve the "road trip" problem, to buy one of the major gas station brands and convert it to superchargers chain-wide... I think *THAT* will be the watershed moment that will cause the quick switch of the general masses to electric.
Far more likely is that rental properties will install chargers. First as a way to attract higher-paid customers, then eventually it will become a norm to have it, as much as it is a norm to provide parking.
The chargers aren't a whole lot of money (like $1-2k for an outdoor unit), and the installation is very basic electrical work as long as there is an easy route to run the power.
As for places without parking, well first the garages where you can rent parking will get chargers, probably at a faster rate t
Re: (Score:2)
they're so cheap that it makes more sense to replace a motor than taking the time to re-wind the coils.
I'm not sure that you could practically rewind the coils in a Tesla motor anyways. It's my understanding that while it is physically a standard AC induction motor, it is a very optimized and specialized induction motor.
It'd be like rebuilding an engine and because you can't match factory specs exactly enough you end up with an engine with no more power, but 1/3rd higher fuel usage.
And the coils are unlikely to go bad as well - you're more likely to see issues with the electronics or even shaft if you manag
Re: (Score:2)
For a long, lone time now, the biggest problem with cars has been electrical and computer failure, not mechanical failure. Somehow, I don't think electric cars will make that better.
Ask any modern mechanic, and they'll tell you it's impossible to survive as a mechanic without spending thousands of dollars on scan tools. Hell, I just watched a YouTube video showing that you can't replace the rear brake pads on a certain VW unless you use a scan tool to put the car into diagnostic mode. It's not a job you
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
One thing I've wondered is how the fix some things without a real lift - like if they need to replace some parts of the suspension. Seems like they would still have to take it to a real shop for some more advanced repairs.
Nope. Thousands of people do these repairs on their own cars in their garage or driveway. They use jacks, chain hoists, and ramps (depending on the repair). Lifting an entire car 7-feet in the air is a convenience, not a necessity.
Re: (Score:2)
My parent's garage in the UK has a 7 foot hole dug in the floor with planks over it, to enable repairs for cars. It was there when they bought the house, 45 years ago.
Re: (Score:2)
There is a waiting list to buy the cars. Your friends who insist they don't want things they can't afford or don't want anyways, doesn't even have the potential to be a loss in demand for them. You present it as if it is some mistake on their part. I know it is natural for you to feel you are important, and your friends are important, but you're not.
Other people, who do know how electricity works, do repair Teslas on their own. If you don't know how to do it, it makes sense they don't want to spend their ti
Re:Mobile repair seems like an awesome service to (Score:5, Informative)
Nope. I had mobile repair replace my parking brakes (warranty issue) and rotate my tires. He did it in my garage with a jack. The whole point of mobile service is that while it takes the repair guy a bit more time (both in driving and in working), it saves them a ton of overhead in buildings, so it ends up being cheaper.
Re: Mobile repair seems like an awesome service to (Score:5, Informative)
He is no more at risk with an auto repair tech than he is with a plumber, appliance repair, HVAC repair, etc.
Re: (Score:2)
What, you think Tesla isn't bonded/insured or something?
LOL
Re: (Score:3)
Most of those jobs can be done by a mobile mechanic though the suspension repair may need a trip to the alignment shop at the end.
Source, I've done most of them at home with a jack and jack stands.
For tires, there are fully equipped tire trucks and that is the way big trucks often get their tires fixed.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Nope. Mobile repair can do all sorts of work, including brakes and suspension. Yes it takes longer without a lift, but the added cost in one employee's time is offset by the reduced overhead from fewer service buildings. It also means fewer loaner cars and happier customers.
Sure, there are some things they can't do, but if they shift 75% of the work to mobile service, then they can handle four times as many cars without increasing the number of service centers. It's the simplest way they can scale their
Re: (Score:2)
It is just like building in a tent: a stupid idea that is needed because you need to be "Agile" (a.k.a haven't thought about things completely ahead of time). Tesla is moronic.
Wait, what? You think it matters if a building has soft walls, instead of hard walls?
Like some magical God of Snobbishness is going to cause your pants to fall down while you try to work, because the building is a mere tent. Or something something. You thought that you thought Tesla is moronic, but your trollish subconscious was merely demonstrating agility.
Re:Mobile repair seems like an awesome service to (Score:5, Informative)
Tesla mobile service is awesome. They come to you and fix the car. Since Teslas don't need any routine maintenance (no oil change, tuneups, etc.), you only need service when something breaks. Again, since the cars are so simple (electric motor, big battery) there's not much to go wrong.
In 75,000 miles, I've only needed service twice. Once for water in a tail light and once for a door handle repair. Mobile service came and fixed the door handle. Fast and easy. (Tail light was repaired under warranty before mobile service was available.)
Auto dealers are pissed at Tesla because EVs don't need any of their overpriced service. So happy I don't have to go to the dealer for oil change, etc.
Re:Mobile repair seems like an awesome service to (Score:5, Interesting)
Tesla mobile service is awesome. They come to you and fix the car. Since Teslas don't need any routine maintenance (no oil change, tuneups, etc.), you only need service when something breaks. Again, since the cars are so simple (electric motor, big battery) there's not much to go wrong.
In 75,000 miles, I've only needed service twice. Once for water in a tail light and once for a door handle repair. Mobile service came and fixed the door handle. Fast and easy. (Tail light was repaired under warranty before mobile service was available.)
Auto dealers are pissed at Tesla because EVs don't need any of their overpriced service. So happy I don't have to go to the dealer for oil change, etc.
In my experience modern ICE cars don't suffer a lot of severe powertrain related breakdowns. More than 50% of repairs is stuff that would impact an electric car the same: Tie-rod ends, struts, etc.
Meanwhile Tesla owners seems to have a lot of warranty claims for door handles (WTF? How can these break?) and "Drive Units" (AKA complete powertrain). Teslas actually have a poor reliability rating.
Don't get me wrong, as a nerd I like electric cars. Tesla has made very interesting models, and really pushed range. I'm also perfectly fine with Tesla trying to "disrupt" the dealership model, however there seems to be a reality-distortion-field around them.
Also, I'm a fan of right to repair. Tesla doesn't seem like they are. Third-party repairs? LOL.
Re:Mobile repair seems like an awesome service to (Score:5, Informative)
Modern ICE cars do need oil changes and have finicky emission systems which require regular maintenance.
Teslas really don't need any routine maintenance. Even brakes seem to last forever because of regen.
The early production of the door handle retraction mechanism had a weak pivot gear which broke. The replacement is much stronger. Same with the early "drivetrain failure" which was just a "milling sound" due to lack of lubrication in early production models. The whole drivetrain can be dropped by removing about 4 bolts so the easiest thing to do was exchange them and send them back to the factory for rebuild. My car (a 2015) fortunately hasn't had that problem.
The reality is that the cars are very reliable and people have driven them hundreds of thousands of miles with very little maintenance or repair. Even the batteries are proving to be be solid with less than 10% degradation over 100,000 miles so they should last a lot longer than an ICE car.
Tesla has loosened up their policy on parts so anyone can buy any replacement part and shop manuals and of course there are salvage parts available so anyone could open up a Tesla repair shop. Problem is that they don't need much in the way of maintenance and repair so not much of a market.
Re: (Score:2)
A modern ICE car needs an oil change every 30000km or 18000miles or so. As for your regular maintenance on emissions ... never seen it. It's also not listed in the recommended maintenance manual from my car.
If you drive it a lot then every few years you may need timing belt done, and every few years spark plugs swapped and injectors checked (though with modern fuels that's also turning into a pointless activity). Otherwise, there really isn't much maintenance in a modern ICE car at all.
*Note that these reco
Re: (Score:2)
Meanwhile Tesla owners seems to have a lot of warranty claims for door handles (WTF? How can these break?) and "Drive Units" (AKA complete powertrain). Teslas actually have a poor reliability rating.
My brother's wife's car has had 4 door handles break on it. We think it is down to a combination of that particular model having weak/cheap handles, and my brother having kids that yank with all their strength on the door handle, like they think that that will overwhelm the door being locked before mom has the chance to hit the unlock all button.
And no, it isn't a Tesla.
All or nothing (Score:2, Insightful)
Did they already get John Deere to open up their software?
Two possible solutions: (Score:2)
One: Build the damned wall at the Oklahoma and New Mexico borders. Two: Just let 'em secede.
What's the alternative? (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
The car dealers that are behind these efforts want to force Tesla to set up dealerships, owned by the existing dealers.
First, they want a cut from sales, and the high-profit service work.
Second, they want to prevent other car manufacturers from seeing Tesla keeping that cut and making that profit. GM would make a lot more money if dealers weren't skimming every sale and keeping most of the profit from service.
Tea for Texas (Score:4, Interesting)
Forget Chicago, New York, California. The state of Texas has by far the most corrupt politicians in the nation. From the governor on down to local sheriffs, they all have their hands out to someone who's only happy to put a little something in it.
This came as a surprise to me when lived in South Texas. Texans love to talk about their love of freedom and hatred for big government and regulation, but it turned out to be the exact opposite. This is a real shame, because the people of Texas, the actual citizens, are some of the nicest, most decent people you could meet. But decades of unabashed corruption and gerrymandering have completely destroyed anything like true representation. Only recently has this been changing a little bit, because the energy industry in Texas is slowly losing it's mojo.
They've covered in up using Koch Brothers money and energy industry wealth, but if you look closely, you quickly learn that Texas state politicians are so corrupt it would make a Chicago alderman blush.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Tea for Texas (Score:5, Informative)
Another article discussed the results of a study that looked at convictions for federal anti-corruption laws [mic.com] to establish rankings. Here the most corrupt state was Mississippi. I had to click through to the study since Texas wasn't in either the top or bottom 10, but it's listed as the 18th least corrupt state in the rankings.
One article that did report Texas as corrupt (it only came in 15th) was one which cited a report that looked at laws in systems each state has in place to prevent or curtail corruption [cheatsheet.com]. In this case the worst rated state was Wyoming.
FiveThirtyEight also has their own article from a few years back [fivethirtyeight.com] that delves into the topic. Texas does have a lot of corruption convictions, but on a per capita basis, it's in the top third. In this assessment, Louisiana is the most corrupt based on convictions per capita, Kentucky had the worst reporter rating, and Georgia is indicated in having the greatest lack of laws to prevent corruption. Oregon, Massachusetts, and New Jersey are respectively the least corrupt states based on those same categories.
In conclusion, you can apparently measure corruption in several ways and get a variety of results. Texas seems to be pretty middle of the pack in an overall sense.
Re: (Score:2)
Convictions for corruption are probably the worst metric to use to measure if a state is corrupt of not. It assumes that the corruption somehow stops at the court system. I assure you, it does not. Judges in Texas are famously corrupt.
https://www.statesman.com/news... [statesman.com]
http://lawflog.com/?p=1957 [lawflog.com]
https://www.texasobserver.org/... [texasobserver.org]
Re: (Score:3)
1. It would seem to me that logically, the more corrupt a state become the more anti-corruption laws it will have. If the leaders are all honest, no one is going to write laws, at least not anymore than it generally being illegal to be corrupt.
2. The more people convicted for corruption, the less corrupt a government is. It is surprisingly easy to be accidentally corrupt. Their will always be people to arrest and punish for corruption. It is only serious government breaking corruption when people stop getti
Re: (Score:2)
It would seem to me that logically, the more corrupt a state become the more anti-corruption laws it will have.
Why would corrupt politicians make laws to block their own corruption?
Re: (Score:2)
I wonder how well my little theory lines up with reality. In principle, west Texas should be considerably more "susceptible to corrup
Tesla should out source servicing anyway (Score:2)
Right to Repair (Score:2)
Fighting the future (even if it's good) (Score:2)
what about the customer's rights? (Score:2)
but now dealers are even going after Tesla's right to service its cars.
what about the customer right to get their car serviced through someone of their choosing? i thought capitalist america was ostensibly all about customer choice?
Where are the laws to protect the consumer? (Score:2)
I actually would prefer that when I need service, the car company can come and pickup my car and replace it with a loaner and ship it back to the factory to be properly refurbished... not simply repaired.
Consider if Tesla were to build an assembly line that could disassemble 80% of the vehicle and perform full maintenance including changing bushings, replace capacitors, etc... and then reassemble the vehicle. It s
Middlemen (Score:2)
Eliminating the middle man, never as simple as it sounds. About 50% of the human race is middlemen and they don't take kindly to being eliminated.
The car dealership model is a drag on innovation (Score:2)
I have no fondness for Tesla or the "electric car revolution", but car dealers should not be the ones deciding the future either. In fact, the dealership model (in the US) is to make money with volume - which mean cheap, under-optioned and option-packaged cars. This means that unless you are very very motivated, you can't buy a vehicle that is best for you. Dealers can move cheap cars the fastest - they source them with pre-packaged options (e.g. if you want active lane departure prevention, you have to get
Re:Right to repair? (Score:5, Insightful)
Right to repair works both ways. Every mechanic should have a right to work on Teslas if they so choose, but Tesla should also have a right to service their own cars if they choose.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Right to repair works both ways. Every mechanic should have a right to work on Teslas if they so choose, but Tesla should also have a right to service their own cars if they choose.
If they're lease vehicles, then they're Tesla's cars. If they're sold vehicles, they're not Tesla's cars. Tesla is free to service all of the vehicles they actually own, but if they stand in the way of other people repairing the vehicles they've sold and therefore no longer own, then they're in the wrong.
All manufacturers of anything which is serviceable should be forced to provide the same materials they use for service to any interested party, for only a reasonable distribution fee. All manufacturers of a
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Tesla already complies with right to repair laws. You can buy access to all their service manuals. There's a guy who resurrects dead Teslas who has used that occasionally (but only occasionally, as the access is expensive).
Re: (Score:2)
Access to a service manual is not the same as Tesla selling them parts. Also Tesla is rather notorious for disabling services on people's cars remotely with no warning (arguably illegal) whenever they perform a fix Tesla feels should have been done by them. Then charging them what they would have charged plus a recertification fee. Essentially holding their car hostage.
I've also seen several instances where Tesla's sold pre-owned cars but didn't have the titles, leaving owners unable to drive their cars
Re: (Score:2)
Why are you purposely trying to confuse two completely separate concepts?
Right to Repair, and Dealers trying to protect their business models, are only very superficially similar.
Maybe you would be less confused by the response if you yourself weren't trying to muddy the issue.
Re: (Score:2)
They are both government stepping in to dictate terms to people, so that the manufacturer loses and independent shops win.
- Right to repair: Small repair shops want repair business, use government to force companies to help facilitate independent repairs. Good?
- Auto dealers: Small repair shops want repair business, use government to force Tesla to use independent repairs. Bad?
Very similar. Personally, I would prefer governments didn't bully anyone unless it's absolutely necessary. Independent repair sh
Re: (Score:2)
Believing in the rights of individual PEOPLE to do what they like with what they've bought is one thing. I'm 100% in favor of that. You want to work on your own Tesla? Cool. Go for it.
Abuse of the legal system by one BUSINESS to force another to subsidize it... now that's something else entirely. And I'm entirely opposed to that. Your business wants to open a shop repairing Teslas? Okay. Do the work of developing the skills, building your parts supply chain, and learning the technology yourself. Yo
Re: (Score:2)
Do the work of developing the skills, building your parts supply chain, and learning the technology yourself. You want a law forcing Tesla to help you? Go fuck yourself.
Except when Tesla is the only source of service manuals, and Tesla is the only source of parts, and Tesla remote kills your car because you didn't have them repair it. Then what's left except turning to your lawyers or your legislature.
Re: (Score:2)
Do Slashdot people believe in the right to repair? Or should Tesla get to do all repairs on Teslas?
Let us know.
Tesla should not be restricted in repairing whatever cars people want them to repair, including cars they manufactured.
People should have the right to repair cars that they buy, including being protecting from being sued for doing it. Manufacturers shouldn't be allowed to take steps to stop people from repairing their cars, like including parts that self-destruct or stop working when you try to repair them. But at the same time, they shouldn't be forced to sell people spare parts. If they want to sell spare
Re: (Score:2)
I think that in the long
Re:Texas us right in this... (Score:5, Insightful)
Ah-bullshit.
https://service.teslamotors.co... [teslamotors.com]
Re: (Score:2)
That's body shops only. Notice all their links are for making the car safe, rendering the electrical aspects inert so body shops can work. If you follow the link pertaining to battery damage for example, it says right there that only Tesla can repair the battery pack.
ie, Tesla will let you fix scratches and dents, but that's about it.
Re: (Score:3)
Anybody can fix any Tesla. Anybody can buy parts. Anybody can sell parts.
(Check out Rich Rebuilds on YouTube.)
Re:This IS the GOP (Score:5, Informative)
Texas - as Red and GOP as you can get
Unlike Connecticut, New York, Michigan, Pennsylvania, which are Blue and restrict manufacturer-direct sales completely or to a large degree..... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] And if you think that manufacturers wanting to sell directly to consumers is a new idea, then I have a bridge to sell you.
Re: (Score:2)
Ahhhh whataboutism at its finest.
Re: (Score:2)
Moved to Texas about five years ago, from Nevada. Anybody who is selling the idea that GOP-run states are bastions of regulation-free sanity is shilling. In any city or suburb with lots of an acre or under, what you can do with your house (what trees you can cut down, how big a patio can be, etc.) is largely controlled by the same levels regulations/permits/etc. you would find in Southern California (where I also lived).
It seems less about mistrust of government than mistrust of the "next level". Local m
Re: (Score:2)
The dealer makes money. Repairs have a high profit margin, and the dealer would like a cut of every car sold.
Why should we be upset? Well, probably not mad at Tesla over this. I'd expect people should be upset by the rent-seeking of the dealers.
Re: (Score:2)
Hey now, don't knock Alabama of their perch.