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Government

DST-Hating Reps in Washington State Vote To 'Ditch the Switch' (komonews.com) 282

In the state of Washington, the House has voted 89 to 7 to "ditch the switch, bring the light, and defeat the dark night," says one representative. KOMO reports: Changing the clocks twice a year impacts the body's natural rhythms and is associated with a spike in heart attacks, strokes, and traffic collisions each year, according to the Washington State Department of Health's impact review. Extended daylight in the evening is also better for kids who play sports or who are active outside, Riccelli said. The bill now heads to the Senate for consideration.... The federal government would have the final say.
And meanwhile, one Pennsylvania newspaper has published a state representative's op-ed calling for Pennsylvania to help lead the resistance in America's Eastern Standard Time zone, complaining that "This weekend, we again will be forced to comply with an archaic tradition, one that offers no benefits." There is no national crisis that changing clocks helps to alleviate. In fact, there are more negative side effects from changing clocks than benefits. Studies have shown that automobile accidents, workplace injuries, heart attacks, strokes, cluster headaches, miscarriages, depression, and suicides all increase in the weeks following clock changes.

This government-mandated interruption of natural biological rhythms and sleep cycles can wreak havoc on job performance, academic results, and overall physical/mental health. Clock changes require farmers to make needless adjustments, as crops and animals live by the sunlight... During this legislative session, I will be working to advance this commonsense legislation that will not only end the antiquated ritual of changing clocks, but will also help preserve the health, safety, well-being, productivity, and lives of Pennsylvanians.

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DST-Hating Reps in Washington State Vote To 'Ditch the Switch'

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  • Count me in (Score:5, Insightful)

    by JustAnotherOldGuy ( 4145623 ) on Saturday March 09, 2019 @11:41PM (#58245646) Journal

    If this ever comes up for a vote I'll be first in line to abolish DST and the pointless back-and-forth with the clocks.

    It's stupid and serves no purpose except to fuck up everyone's schedule twice a year.

    • Re:Count me in (Score:5, Insightful)

      by JustAnotherOldGuy ( 4145623 ) on Saturday March 09, 2019 @11:44PM (#58245660) Journal

      I should add that no one, literally NO ONE I know wants to continue with the DST bullshit. No one has ever wanted it as far back as I can recall. I honestly can't think of a single person in my entire life that thought it was a good thing.

      • by skids ( 119237 ) on Saturday March 09, 2019 @11:53PM (#58245684) Homepage

        The only source of potential pushback I'm aware on this is parents who don't want their kids waiting for the bus in the dark (that happens with the DST-all-year option) Which they may not realize until after they've lived with it. The standard-time-all-year option ends up with everyone driving hoe from work in the dark more days per year. Let the royal rumble commence.

        We of course could effectively have the DST-all-year solution and stay on standard time if all businesses and government offices changed their hours. Good luck with that.

        • by JustAnotherOldGuy ( 4145623 ) on Sunday March 10, 2019 @12:00AM (#58245706) Journal

          The only source of potential pushback I'm aware on this is parents who don't want their kids waiting for the bus in the dark (that happens with the DST-all-year option)

          That's not nearly enough of a reason to keep playing this twice-a-year circle jerk with the clocks. It's just not.

          Those parents will just have to grit their teeth and stop imagining every bad thing in the world that could possibly happen to their children. Maybe teach them not to stand next to the road in the dark (which they really should already be teaching them).

          Seriously, I don't care what time they pick as long as they pick one and stick to it.

          • The original reason for DST: Stores and parks did not want to change the signs that said when they would open, but they wanted to be open during daylight. However, this history does not mention that: Daylight Saving Time history. [webexhibits.org]
            • The original reason for DST: Stores and parks did not want to change the signs that said when they would open

              The park nearest to my house has a sign that says "Closed one hour after sunset".

          • by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Sunday March 10, 2019 @02:41AM (#58246128)

            Those parents will just have to grit their teeth and stop imagining every bad thing in the world that could possibly happen to their children.

            The Seattle Times has a better article regarding the proposed change [seattletimes.com].

            As that article points out, 'a survey by the National Safety Council of 42 states and the District of Columbia that found daylight saving time had “little or no effect on the number of early-morning traffic fatalities among schoolchildren.”'.

            That article also points out that, here in Washington state, kids are already standing out in the dark waiting for their busses for a short part of the year. If people are that concerned about it, they should convince the schools to change their schedules.

            • Agreed. Your local issue does not rise to the importance such that half the world needs to fuck with it's clocks twice a year, and be confused about what time it is around the world because of this. Half of businesses already do summer and winter hours anyway, due to the change in customer visits. There's no reason everyone else can't do likewise for fear of the dark.

            • If people are that concerned about it, they should convince the schools to change their schedules.

              Or teach children not to stand next to the road, which parents should be telling their children anyway.

              There is simply no need to screw around with every clock in the entire country twice a year because some parents are too dumb to tell their kids not to stand in the road in the dark.

        • by msauve ( 701917 )
          "Extended daylight in the evening is also better for kids..."

          But think of the children being raised by idiot legislators who think they can control celestial movements. There's no such thing as "extended daylight" due to a change in wall time. The sun comes and goes as it will, laws can't change that.
          • by sjames ( 1099 )

            But laws can shift our reckoning of time such that we have the daylight when our schedules are more likely to allow us to enjoy it.

            • by DamonHD ( 794830 )

              People keep saying this as if it were meaningful. Here in London UK daylight length changes between ~8h and ~16h between mid-winter and mid-summer.

              What does fiddling with an hour do other than make work and complexity?

              Our internal clocks remain driven by light, including sunlight.

              Rgds

              Damon

              • Sounds like a typical base!ment dweller.

                Some of us enjoy the evening hours after work.

                In the east coast USA. Twith out dst the sun will set at 6pm by labor day.

                That leave 6 weeks were high School sports are played in total dark.

                Heck just driving halfway across one time zone can have amajor effect on outdoor activities. Near Boston the longest day of the year is done by 9 pm,. Without daylight savings time it is done by 8 pm.
                Yet on the other side of the same time zone it is 10:30 pm and 9:30 pm.

                • by DamonHD ( 794830 )

                  Yes the time zones are bigger than an hour difference. Only basement dwelling idiots haven't observed that fact.

                  Which wasn't my point AT ALL. The seasonal change in day length is far more than any 1 hour shift, and not all use cases are the same as your use cases.

                  And why so damn rude also? There is no need.

                • by msauve ( 701917 )
                  Find a boss who'll let you work 8-4 in the summer instead of 9-5.
                  • You made a typo, you meant 10 - 4, right?

                  • My last job ran from 7:30 to 4:00. In the winter the sun came up a half hour after I got to work, and set while going home. With an 8 1/2 hour work day and 8 hours of day light no clock manipulation can save you.

                    • by sjames ( 1099 )

                      Had the clock been on DST in the winter, you would at least have an hour at home before the sun set. Better than the noything you get by falling back.

          • Wait, wait, what if the numbers existed separately and were not actually celestial movements? What if the numbers were arbitrary?

            What if we had a 25 hour day, would the Sun not still come and go as it will?

            And if Friday consisted of 3 hours, would the Sun not still come and go the same?

          • There's no such thing as "extended daylight" due to a change in wall time.
            Yes, there is, idiot.

            The sun comes and goes as it will, laws can't change that.
            That is why you adjust the clock ... simple ... how braindead are people in our times?

        • by iggymanz ( 596061 ) on Sunday March 10, 2019 @12:14AM (#58245752)

          so change the time your school starts if it means so much in your district. leave the rest of us out of this mass mental retardation invented to save candle tallow

          • so change the time your school starts if it means so much in your district

            That's much more impractical, especially for those trying to mesh work schedule with school schedule.

            • so change the time your school starts if it means so much in your district

              That's much more impractical, especially for those trying to mesh work schedule with school schedule.

              I've noticed that the folks who hate DST don't care bout anything more than how inconvenienced they are with having to reset their clocks. As Iggymanz notes, disrupt the school day, disrupt an entire process - they don't care how much trouble others have, as long as they get their way.

              I'd be willing to wager that most live in apartments, don't have work that requires going outside, or no evening chores. But that clock shift - insufferable!

              In other words, everyone else adjust their schedules all over t

          • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

            That would make life difficult for parents who need to get their kids ready for school and then get themselves to work though.

            • Yeah,
              but is it not insane that little children have to be at school before the parents have to be at work?

            • That would make life difficult for parents who need to get their kids ready for school and then get themselves to work though.

              You are under the mistaken assumption that they care about others inconvenience.

              The most vociferous opponents of DST tend to come from places where it means the least. The closer you get to the Equator, the less seasonal differential between light/dark cycles. When you are in the far north or south, no amount of clock diddling will help. Seasonal extremes are just beyond adjustment.

              But there are those mid-northern or mid-southern temperate zones. Damn! Here in PA, before we changed the clocks this mor

        • by Darinbob ( 1142669 ) on Sunday March 10, 2019 @01:10AM (#58245914)

          Whether DST results in waiting for the bus in the dark depends on location. Time zone borders are drawn in very strange ways, and sunrise for one person can be over an hour different from another person in the same time zone.

          And in winter when there's no DST, there just aren't enough daylight hours anyway to cover both waiting for the bus going to school or walking home from the bus after school.

        • by bobby ( 109046 )

          The only source of potential pushback I'm aware on this is parents who don't want their kids waiting for the bus in the dark...

          As far as I know / remember, that is the only reason we change the clocks. In this modern age of cheap bright LED flashlights, I don't know if it's such a big deal.

          But a better solution: let the kids start school an hour later and go home an hour later. I'm not sure if this is true now, but years ago most juvenile crime was committed after school and before the parents get home. So it may be a win-win.

          Oh, worried about after-school outdoor sports, etc? It's okay, let them continue what they're doing now

          • by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Sunday March 10, 2019 @02:43AM (#58246136)

            most juvenile crime was committed after school and before the parents get home.

            Supposedly, that is also when most teenage pregnancies are initiated.

            Start school later: What's the big deal? [startschoollater.net]

            • by bobby ( 109046 )

              Supposedly, that is also when most teenage pregnancies are initiated.

              I wasn't aware of that but it makes perfect sense, esp. remembering childhood / teen years.

              Thanks for reminding me of that- it's been a frequent news topic recently. I know I would have done better in school with an extra hour of sleep. I know I know, "go to bed an hour earlier". Well, it doesn't work no matter how hard I try.

              I think we've agreed on a plan!

              • I think that the government telling us what time it is is an unforgivable infringement upon out basic freedoms. I call for humans having the right and dignity to set their own time, as they see fit. Stand up to the man!

                In the spirit of the people grabbing back their freedoms, I will now observe only my own clock.

                The metric clock. the minute is based on 100 seconds, the hour 100 minutes, and the day 10 hours.

                But none of this numerical bullshit. The basic unit the second, will now be known as the quee

        • by rossdee ( 243626 ) on Sunday March 10, 2019 @03:48AM (#58246248)

          " parents who don't want their kids waiting for the bus in the dark"

          A way around that is to have schools closed in the winter, and open all summer. (instead of them being open all winter and closed in the summer) It would also save the kids from waiting for the bus outside when its -20f (-40f windchill) or having to close schools when thr roads are blocked with snow.

      • by mentil ( 1748130 )

        It's a conspiracy by Big Candle to sell more light-production products.
        Damn you, Yankee Candle!

      • by Z80a ( 971949 )

        The best argument for DST got killed by better lamps.

        • The best argument for DST got killed by better lamps.

          It was also killed by the wide adoption of air conditioning. The power saved by people using less light in the evening is swamped by the power used to run air conditioners for an extra hour in the afternoon, since people come home from work an hour earlier in the summer.

          • by Megane ( 129182 )

            DST was never intended to "save power", unless you're saying that you're as dumb as Dubya, who fell for that argument when he signed the bill that changed the dates back in 2007 or so. It saves "daylight", that's what it says on. People with central air conditioning and 95F+ summers don't turn it off when they're away during the day anyhow, and need it on at night too.

            A couple of years of either the summer sun waking you up two hours before you have to leave for work, or having to commute in the dark in wi

            • by Megane ( 129182 )
              >It saves "daylight", that's what it says on the tin.
            • DST was never intended to "save power",
              In Europe it was. The idea was people switch on the lights later. Especially shopping malls etc. However no one bothered to change the programming of shopping window lights.

      • I should add that no one, literally NO ONE I know wants to continue with the DST bullshit

        When most people think about DST, they only think about the disadvantages of the transition, but they don't consider the advantages. Ask them again when it's abolished.

      • I should add that no one, literally NO ONE I know wants to continue with the DST bullshit.

        So what you're saying is you literally don't know people representative across the population.

      • I want DST all year.
    • by mentil ( 1748130 )

      You WOULD be first in line, if you didn't forget to change your clocks.

    • So, you don't travel, do you?
      • So, you don't travel, do you?

        Not certain what angle you are working Bruce, since no quote. But I've travelled a lot over the years, and have to chuckle at the folks for whom the twice a year shift is an insufferable assault. Typically across 3-4 time zones. The past 5 years or so, it's been across one time zone, but hey - the day/night cycles are all different.

        You simply adapt. Or if I was just on a short duration, I kept my own time zone schedule as much as possible. Just tell me when its time for breakfast, and I'll get by.

    • The BBQ lobby can cite lots of reasons, like more daylight evening hours for outdoor BBQ.

      That's who asked Congress to extend it, when they extended it.

      • by Megane ( 129182 )

        I thought it was the Big Candy that pushed for the dates to change. Apparently in significant parts of the US, Halloween is done before sunset, and this pushed the clock change date into November. However, in Texas we've traditionally done our trick-or-treating after sunset, so that basically killed it here.

        Meanwhile, what's left of the drive-in movie lobby is down at the bar, crying in their beer. All they need to push them over the edge is for DST to stop in favor of summer time all year around.

    • If this ever comes up for a vote I'll be first in line to abolish DST and the pointless back-and-forth with the clocks.

      It's stupid and serves no purpose except to fuck up everyone's schedule twice a year.

      Next, we need to stop the bullshit of it getting light and dark at different times. It needs to get light at 7 in the morning, and dark at 8 in the evening, all year round, everywhere.

    • And you can't see the sun in the state of Washington anyway.

  • for retail? Studies showed people shopped more when the sun was out, so retail used to fight to keep DST. With retail's influence waning there's not a ton of campaign dollars to push it anymore.

    True story, the Fast Food joints in my hometown successfully fought off projects to build freeways through town for years because they didn't folks hopping on a freeway to get across town and not passing their restaurants on the way to work.
  • I was around the last time the USA got rid of daylight-savings time, in 1973-1975. It was total hell. Children went to school in pitch darkness and bitter cold, and people drove to work in the dark. I can't imagine who would want this again. You get rid of a one-hour change for a much worse difficulty every day for months on end.

    These days, many more working people travel regularly than in 1973, when jet travel was so unreachable for the common man that rich people were called the "jet set". Most working p

    • by R.Mo_Robert ( 737913 ) on Sunday March 10, 2019 @12:46AM (#58245844)

      I was around the last time the USA got rid of daylight-savings time, in 1973-1975. It was total hell. Children went to school in pitch darkness and bitter cold, and people drove to work in the dark. I can't imagine who would want this again. You get rid of a one-hour change for a much worse difficulty every day for months on end.

      These days, many more working people travel regularly than in 1973, when jet travel was so unreachable for the common man that rich people were called the "jet set". Most working people today deal with much worse than a one-hour change on a regular basis.

      Technically, that was actually year-round Daylight Saving Time, i.e., elimination of standard time, not elimination of DST. But the first link suggests that's also what is proposed here (they technically don't hate DST, just the change--and so-called "standard time," in which we actually now spend less time of the year in than DST--is usually the one people object to). This would indeed make the morning sunrise later with respect to the clock, an issue in winter for many regions of the US, the argument usually being that children would go to school in the dark in the morning (I'm not sure the "going to work" argument would hold up since where I live, it's already dark after work during standard time by late November, so it's either one or the other).

    • by dryeo ( 100693 ) on Sunday March 10, 2019 @01:20AM (#58245936)

      Depends on where you live, as in latitude and longitude. My Province is wide enough that there is an hour difference between the east and west parts. One part gets screwed either way when sunrise varies by an hour across the time zone.
      Then there's the north where the sun comes up at maybe 10:00 and sets at 2:00 or worse. Doesn't matter where you set the clocks, it's usually dark and cold.
      I'm dreading the next week as I'll be getting up an hour early and love this news as my Premier basically said, "whatever California, Oregon and Washington does, we'll do as we should all be in sync". Feds aren't involved here either. Don't understand why your feds get to say what timezone a State is in.
      There's also a private members bill in the legislature to create a new time zone along the coast, always on DST. Might even pass if the Greens support it.

      • I'm dreading the next week as I'll be getting up an hour early and love this news as my Premier basically said, "whatever California, Oregon and Washington does, we'll do as we should all be in sync".

        California, Oregon, Washington, and British Columbia should form their own country.

        (I'm a Washington resident, and I'm not sure if I'm joking or not...)

        • by dryeo ( 100693 )

          Perhaps, and don't forget the Yukon and Alaska. Problem is that secession is not easy. Most of the States and all of the Provinces would have to agree, probably along with our respective Federal governments. Also a referendum with a clear majority here, none of that 50%+1 means we're leaving. It's unclear what a clear majority is.

    • by sjames ( 1099 )

      I'm not sure hell is the right word for it. My friends and I enjoyed having an excuse to take a flashlight to school.

    • by quenda ( 644621 )

      Children went to school in pitch darkness and bitter cold, and people drove to work in the dark.

      This makes no sense since DST does not apply in winter. Are you being sarcastic? Is DST somehow shifting the tilt of the earth's axis?
      You don't want to commute in darkness? Then move to a lower latitude. I lived in a far-north country once, and know how much long winter nights suck.
      A 1-hour shift in winter clock setting would only solve that problem for a narrow band of latitude anyway.
      Or get your local school system to adapt. How can you blame a summertime clock shift?

      • by Megane ( 129182 )

        This makes no sense since DST does not apply in winter.

        Did you miss the part where he said "the last time the USA got rid of daylight-savings time"? Apparently this was a "summer time year round" situation. I would have been a little kid on a 30-minute school bus ride at the time (rural school because living in a subdivision in the middle of nowhere), so that's probably why I don't remember it. I was in the middle of Central Time at the time, and ended up settling down around the same longitude in my adult life. But I did spend one year on the eastern side of C

        • by quenda ( 644621 )

          This makes no sense since DST does not apply in winter.

          Did you miss the part where he said "the last time the USA got rid of daylight-savings time"?

          Nope.

          Apparently this was a "summer time year round" situation.

          Ah, I did miss that part. This would be the problem then, advancing the clock. No reason not to abolish DST.

    • by Solandri ( 704621 ) on Sunday March 10, 2019 @03:13AM (#58246180)

      I was around the last time the USA got rid of daylight-savings time, in 1973-1975. It was total hell. Children went to school in pitch darkness and bitter cold, and people drove to work in the dark.

      The correct way to fix that is to change what time school and work starts. Not to change everyone's clocks. 7am or 8am may have been pitch darkness where you were. Other places it was fine. The places which are affected by longer night (higher latitudes, further west in the time zone) can simply change the start times for school and business in winter. If you insist on changing the clocks, everyone is affected - even people in areas where the time change offers no benefit and is tremendously inconvenient.

      • The correct way to fix that is to change what time school and work starts. Not to change everyone's clocks

        Except that it's much simpler to change the clock than to change every schedule, or worse, only part of the schedules.

        If you insist on changing the clocks, everyone is affected - even people in areas where the time change offers no benefit and is tremendously inconvenient.

        Then those areas can choose not to change the clock.

    • by MrKaos ( 858439 )

      In Australia the summer day is long and very hot. DST helps separate trades people and office workers on the road. One wants to avoid most of the heat of the day a and the other wants a little day left over.

      I think Seasonal Affective Disorder is also influenced by this, especially during winter when day becomes much shorter.

    • Those children also had an hour of extra daylight for activities at the end of the day; you know, when they were doing things instead of just getting ready for school; that's a lot more useful. And 9-5 means coming home in the dark in the winter; that sucks. I find it hard to believe anyone gets upset about having to go to work in the dark vs. still having daylight left after work.
      I can't image who wouldn't want this. Kids and adults alike, that extra hour of daylight after school or work is way better th
    • Why can those entities who fear the dark set their own starting/ending hours to whatever they'd like? Why does everyone, forever, have to mess with their clocks and sleeping habits twice a year? This is wasteful of human time, and (if sleep is so important) can't be good for our health.
  • And be done with this. No fucking reason to keep doing it anymore!

  • Daylight Slacker's Time - Fall back an hour in Fall, and Fall back an hour in Spring, too. More sleep twice a year!
  • ... but there are quite proven medical benefits to having at least some amount of exposure to sunlight early in the day.... and while it's bad enough in the wintertime near the 49th parallel when the sun doesn't rise until nearly 8 am (or sometimes even later) in the middle of winter, with DST in effect, the sun wouldn't be up until nearly 9am. That might not seem to directly matter much for people who have to be at work before 8am anyways, or often even earlier, but by moving sunrise to an hour later th

  • DST is a waste of time. It is time for the U.S. to abolish it.
  • by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Sunday March 10, 2019 @02:22AM (#58246080)

    They want to keep Daylight Saving Time year-round, not abolish it.

    Previous efforts had been to establish Standard Time year round, but it turns out people prefer that hour of sunlight in the evening rather than the morning.

    And, if the US Congress won’t allow it, the fallback is that Washington State move to Mountain Standard Time year round.

    I live in Washington State, and I support this message. And yes, I was a kid (in Washington State, no less) the last time the US as a whole tried this... and I don’t remember it being problematic for me.

    • Previous efforts had been to establish Standard Time year round, but it turns out people prefer that hour of sunlight in the evening rather than the morning.

      Until they've experienced long mornings without sunlight, and then they'll miss it.

      • Until they've experienced long mornings without sunlight, and then they'll miss it.

        I can only speak for myself, but - right now, in December and January, I'm going to work in the dark and coming home in the dark (Standard Time sunset in Seattle mid-December: 4:20pm). I wouldn't mind a chance to occasionally see some light as I'm leaving my office... of course, it'll be grey rainy light but whatever.

    • Maybe people will be willing to lift a finger to kill Nazi time. I'm speaking of course for other countries and post Trump USA...

      It's a German WAR TIME creation to save fuel. It's actually WW1 when nobody had electric light; but people objecting to calling it Nazi time would have educate others just how even more pointlessly stupid it is for us to have War Time.

  • I think the Bible says on the topic:

    "He who not changehet his sleeping hours on weekends throwhet the first minute against DST due to circadian cycles."

    or something similar ;-)

  • Some places benefit more from DST than others. Here in Ireland where there's only 7 hours of light in winter, DST moves those hours so those 7 hours occur at the more useful time of day. For summer we get 7 hours of night, so the change allows for better night time hours.

    So here DST is very useful.

    Location is everything when discussing DST, yet I've never seen a survey that links desire to keep/remove DST linked to location, specifically latitude and distance from your time-zone defining longitude. (i.e.

  • by CrankyOldEngineer ( 3853953 ) on Sunday March 10, 2019 @06:21AM (#58246498)
    Those of us who rise before sunrise (which is most people I know) understand that daylight is not saved. It is robbed from the morning daylight. Only an ignorant Congressman who has never seen a sunrise could possibly call it Daylight *Saving* Time. By the way, DST in the US is so long now that it practically coincides with the school year. If we went back to year-round standard time, any school district that wanted to could simply change their hours. Then nearly everyone could get the schedule that they want. Problem solved!
    • by asylumx ( 881307 )
      DST is almost exactly opposite the school year. School runs through the winter, usually starting late august and ending June. DST runs through the summer, starting in early March and ending in early November. It doesn't coincide at all, unless you are confused and think that winter is when we enter DST...?
  • ...the less your opinion about daylight saving matters.

    People whose lives are comfortable blow minor things up so they have something to complain about. Taking advantage of as much daylight as we can is a good idea. These idiots will be the first to complain that it's dark in the winter.

  • ... daylight saving time becomes a bigger political issue than, say, proper healthcare for Americans.
  • by edbob ( 960004 ) on Sunday March 10, 2019 @10:16AM (#58247288)
    This issue comes up twice a year, every year, then disappears just as quickly as the sun sets on an arctic day in December. Until there is concerted year-round pressure on congress to change it, this issue will continue to come up twice a year every year.
  • What are they going to do, roll tanks across the border of states that dare defy the time change?

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