DST-Hating Reps in Washington State Vote To 'Ditch the Switch' (komonews.com) 282
In the state of Washington, the House has voted 89 to 7 to "ditch the switch, bring the light, and defeat the dark night," says one representative. KOMO reports:
Changing the clocks twice a year impacts the body's natural rhythms and is associated with a spike in heart attacks, strokes, and traffic collisions each year, according to the Washington State Department of Health's impact review. Extended daylight in the evening is also better for kids who play sports or who are active outside, Riccelli said. The bill now heads to the Senate for consideration.... The federal government would have the final say.
And meanwhile, one Pennsylvania newspaper has published a state representative's op-ed calling for Pennsylvania to help lead the resistance in America's Eastern Standard Time zone, complaining that "This weekend, we again will be forced to comply with an archaic tradition, one that offers no benefits." There is no national crisis that changing clocks helps to alleviate. In fact, there are more negative side effects from changing clocks than benefits. Studies have shown that automobile accidents, workplace injuries, heart attacks, strokes, cluster headaches, miscarriages, depression, and suicides all increase in the weeks following clock changes.
This government-mandated interruption of natural biological rhythms and sleep cycles can wreak havoc on job performance, academic results, and overall physical/mental health. Clock changes require farmers to make needless adjustments, as crops and animals live by the sunlight... During this legislative session, I will be working to advance this commonsense legislation that will not only end the antiquated ritual of changing clocks, but will also help preserve the health, safety, well-being, productivity, and lives of Pennsylvanians.
And meanwhile, one Pennsylvania newspaper has published a state representative's op-ed calling for Pennsylvania to help lead the resistance in America's Eastern Standard Time zone, complaining that "This weekend, we again will be forced to comply with an archaic tradition, one that offers no benefits." There is no national crisis that changing clocks helps to alleviate. In fact, there are more negative side effects from changing clocks than benefits. Studies have shown that automobile accidents, workplace injuries, heart attacks, strokes, cluster headaches, miscarriages, depression, and suicides all increase in the weeks following clock changes.
This government-mandated interruption of natural biological rhythms and sleep cycles can wreak havoc on job performance, academic results, and overall physical/mental health. Clock changes require farmers to make needless adjustments, as crops and animals live by the sunlight... During this legislative session, I will be working to advance this commonsense legislation that will not only end the antiquated ritual of changing clocks, but will also help preserve the health, safety, well-being, productivity, and lives of Pennsylvanians.
Count me in (Score:5, Insightful)
If this ever comes up for a vote I'll be first in line to abolish DST and the pointless back-and-forth with the clocks.
It's stupid and serves no purpose except to fuck up everyone's schedule twice a year.
Re:Count me in (Score:5, Insightful)
I should add that no one, literally NO ONE I know wants to continue with the DST bullshit. No one has ever wanted it as far back as I can recall. I honestly can't think of a single person in my entire life that thought it was a good thing.
But think of the children! (Score:4, Informative)
The only source of potential pushback I'm aware on this is parents who don't want their kids waiting for the bus in the dark (that happens with the DST-all-year option) Which they may not realize until after they've lived with it. The standard-time-all-year option ends up with everyone driving hoe from work in the dark more days per year. Let the royal rumble commence.
We of course could effectively have the DST-all-year solution and stay on standard time if all businesses and government offices changed their hours. Good luck with that.
Re:But think of the children! (Score:5, Insightful)
The only source of potential pushback I'm aware on this is parents who don't want their kids waiting for the bus in the dark (that happens with the DST-all-year option)
That's not nearly enough of a reason to keep playing this twice-a-year circle jerk with the clocks. It's just not.
Those parents will just have to grit their teeth and stop imagining every bad thing in the world that could possibly happen to their children. Maybe teach them not to stand next to the road in the dark (which they really should already be teaching them).
Seriously, I don't care what time they pick as long as they pick one and stick to it.
The reason: Stores did not want to change signs. (Score:2)
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The original reason for DST: Stores and parks did not want to change the signs that said when they would open
The park nearest to my house has a sign that says "Closed one hour after sunset".
Re:But think of the children! (Score:5, Informative)
Those parents will just have to grit their teeth and stop imagining every bad thing in the world that could possibly happen to their children.
The Seattle Times has a better article regarding the proposed change [seattletimes.com].
As that article points out, 'a survey by the National Safety Council of 42 states and the District of Columbia that found daylight saving time had “little or no effect on the number of early-morning traffic fatalities among schoolchildren.”'.
That article also points out that, here in Washington state, kids are already standing out in the dark waiting for their busses for a short part of the year. If people are that concerned about it, they should convince the schools to change their schedules.
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Agreed. Your local issue does not rise to the importance such that half the world needs to fuck with it's clocks twice a year, and be confused about what time it is around the world because of this. Half of businesses already do summer and winter hours anyway, due to the change in customer visits. There's no reason everyone else can't do likewise for fear of the dark.
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If people are that concerned about it, they should convince the schools to change their schedules.
Or teach children not to stand next to the road, which parents should be telling their children anyway.
There is simply no need to screw around with every clock in the entire country twice a year because some parents are too dumb to tell their kids not to stand in the road in the dark.
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But think of the children being raised by idiot legislators who think they can control celestial movements. There's no such thing as "extended daylight" due to a change in wall time. The sun comes and goes as it will, laws can't change that.
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But laws can shift our reckoning of time such that we have the daylight when our schedules are more likely to allow us to enjoy it.
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People keep saying this as if it were meaningful. Here in London UK daylight length changes between ~8h and ~16h between mid-winter and mid-summer.
What does fiddling with an hour do other than make work and complexity?
Our internal clocks remain driven by light, including sunlight.
Rgds
Damon
Re: But think of the children! (Score:2)
Sounds like a typical base!ment dweller.
Some of us enjoy the evening hours after work.
In the east coast USA. Twith out dst the sun will set at 6pm by labor day.
That leave 6 weeks were high School sports are played in total dark.
Heck just driving halfway across one time zone can have amajor effect on outdoor activities. Near Boston the longest day of the year is done by 9 pm,. Without daylight savings time it is done by 8 pm.
Yet on the other side of the same time zone it is 10:30 pm and 9:30 pm.
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Yes the time zones are bigger than an hour difference. Only basement dwelling idiots haven't observed that fact.
Which wasn't my point AT ALL. The seasonal change in day length is far more than any 1 hour shift, and not all use cases are the same as your use cases.
And why so damn rude also? There is no need.
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You made a typo, you meant 10 - 4, right?
Re: But think of the children! (Score:2)
My last job ran from 7:30 to 4:00. In the winter the sun came up a half hour after I got to work, and set while going home. With an 8 1/2 hour work day and 8 hours of day light no clock manipulation can save you.
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Had the clock been on DST in the winter, you would at least have an hour at home before the sun set. Better than the noything you get by falling back.
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Wait, wait, what if the numbers existed separately and were not actually celestial movements? What if the numbers were arbitrary?
What if we had a 25 hour day, would the Sun not still come and go as it will?
And if Friday consisted of 3 hours, would the Sun not still come and go the same?
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There's no such thing as "extended daylight" due to a change in wall time.
Yes, there is, idiot.
The sun comes and goes as it will, laws can't change that. ... simple ... how braindead are people in our times?
That is why you adjust the clock
Re:But think of the children! (Score:5, Insightful)
so change the time your school starts if it means so much in your district. leave the rest of us out of this mass mental retardation invented to save candle tallow
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so change the time your school starts if it means so much in your district
That's much more impractical, especially for those trying to mesh work schedule with school schedule.
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so change the time your school starts if it means so much in your district
That's much more impractical, especially for those trying to mesh work schedule with school schedule.
I've noticed that the folks who hate DST don't care bout anything more than how inconvenienced they are with having to reset their clocks. As Iggymanz notes, disrupt the school day, disrupt an entire process - they don't care how much trouble others have, as long as they get their way.
I'd be willing to wager that most live in apartments, don't have work that requires going outside, or no evening chores. But that clock shift - insufferable!
In other words, everyone else adjust their schedules all over t
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That would make life difficult for parents who need to get their kids ready for school and then get themselves to work though.
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Yeah,
but is it not insane that little children have to be at school before the parents have to be at work?
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That would make life difficult for parents who need to get their kids ready for school and then get themselves to work though.
You are under the mistaken assumption that they care about others inconvenience.
The most vociferous opponents of DST tend to come from places where it means the least. The closer you get to the Equator, the less seasonal differential between light/dark cycles. When you are in the far north or south, no amount of clock diddling will help. Seasonal extremes are just beyond adjustment.
But there are those mid-northern or mid-southern temperate zones. Damn! Here in PA, before we changed the clocks this mor
Re:But think of the children! (Score:4, Insightful)
Whether DST results in waiting for the bus in the dark depends on location. Time zone borders are drawn in very strange ways, and sunrise for one person can be over an hour different from another person in the same time zone.
And in winter when there's no DST, there just aren't enough daylight hours anyway to cover both waiting for the bus going to school or walking home from the bus after school.
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The only source of potential pushback I'm aware on this is parents who don't want their kids waiting for the bus in the dark...
As far as I know / remember, that is the only reason we change the clocks. In this modern age of cheap bright LED flashlights, I don't know if it's such a big deal.
But a better solution: let the kids start school an hour later and go home an hour later. I'm not sure if this is true now, but years ago most juvenile crime was committed after school and before the parents get home. So it may be a win-win.
Oh, worried about after-school outdoor sports, etc? It's okay, let them continue what they're doing now
Re:But think of the children! (Score:4, Interesting)
most juvenile crime was committed after school and before the parents get home.
Supposedly, that is also when most teenage pregnancies are initiated.
Start school later: What's the big deal? [startschoollater.net]
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Supposedly, that is also when most teenage pregnancies are initiated.
I wasn't aware of that but it makes perfect sense, esp. remembering childhood / teen years.
Start school later: What's the big deal? [startschoollater.net]
Thanks for reminding me of that- it's been a frequent news topic recently. I know I would have done better in school with an extra hour of sleep. I know I know, "go to bed an hour earlier". Well, it doesn't work no matter how hard I try.
I think we've agreed on a plan!
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In the spirit of the people grabbing back their freedoms, I will now observe only my own clock.
The metric clock. the minute is based on 100 seconds, the hour 100 minutes, and the day 10 hours.
But none of this numerical bullshit. The basic unit the second, will now be known as the quee
Re:But think of the children! (Score:4, Insightful)
" parents who don't want their kids waiting for the bus in the dark"
A way around that is to have schools closed in the winter, and open all summer. (instead of them being open all winter and closed in the summer) It would also save the kids from waiting for the bus outside when its -20f (-40f windchill) or having to close schools when thr roads are blocked with snow.
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It's a conspiracy by Big Candle to sell more light-production products.
Damn you, Yankee Candle!
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Careful - the last thing you want to do is attract Big Candle's attention...
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Indeed, they might try to snuff me out.
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The best argument for DST got killed by better lamps.
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The best argument for DST got killed by better lamps.
It was also killed by the wide adoption of air conditioning. The power saved by people using less light in the evening is swamped by the power used to run air conditioners for an extra hour in the afternoon, since people come home from work an hour earlier in the summer.
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DST was never intended to "save power", unless you're saying that you're as dumb as Dubya, who fell for that argument when he signed the bill that changed the dates back in 2007 or so. It saves "daylight", that's what it says on. People with central air conditioning and 95F+ summers don't turn it off when they're away during the day anyhow, and need it on at night too.
A couple of years of either the summer sun waking you up two hours before you have to leave for work, or having to commute in the dark in wi
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DST was never intended to "save power",
In Europe it was. The idea was people switch on the lights later. Especially shopping malls etc. However no one bothered to change the programming of shopping window lights.
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I should add that no one, literally NO ONE I know wants to continue with the DST bullshit
When most people think about DST, they only think about the disadvantages of the transition, but they don't consider the advantages. Ask them again when it's abolished.
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I should add that no one, literally NO ONE I know wants to continue with the DST bullshit.
So what you're saying is you literally don't know people representative across the population.
Re: Count me in (Score:2)
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If you want to keep changing your clocks, go right ahead. The rest of us will stop the nonsense.
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DST may have been an energy saver back when most people primarily used electricity for lighting. Now, not so much. Especially in warmer climates closer to the equator (where DST does very little anyway), DST tends to cause more energy usage in the form of residential air conditioners. Also, all those people doing things in those "longer" evenings are probably causing more energy use. In more northern areas, getting up earlier when it is still dark and cold uses more lighting and heating energy. See Wik [wikipedia.org]
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DST may have been an energy saver back when most people primarily used electricity for lighting.
Some of us still use electricity for lighting. What do you use, whale oil lamps, or maybe Camphine?
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Perhaps you should simply get used to it that there are "early birds" and "night owls".
No idea why people always want to press "their schedule" on other people who have a different "bio rhythm".
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You WOULD be first in line, if you didn't forget to change your clocks.
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So, you don't travel, do you?
Not certain what angle you are working Bruce, since no quote. But I've travelled a lot over the years, and have to chuckle at the folks for whom the twice a year shift is an insufferable assault. Typically across 3-4 time zones. The past 5 years or so, it's been across one time zone, but hey - the day/night cycles are all different.
You simply adapt. Or if I was just on a short duration, I kept my own time zone schedule as much as possible. Just tell me when its time for breakfast, and I'll get by.
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The BBQ lobby can cite lots of reasons, like more daylight evening hours for outdoor BBQ.
That's who asked Congress to extend it, when they extended it.
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I thought it was the Big Candy that pushed for the dates to change. Apparently in significant parts of the US, Halloween is done before sunset, and this pushed the clock change date into November. However, in Texas we've traditionally done our trick-or-treating after sunset, so that basically killed it here.
Meanwhile, what's left of the drive-in movie lobby is down at the bar, crying in their beer. All they need to push them over the edge is for DST to stop in favor of summer time all year around.
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If this ever comes up for a vote I'll be first in line to abolish DST and the pointless back-and-forth with the clocks.
It's stupid and serves no purpose except to fuck up everyone's schedule twice a year.
Next, we need to stop the bullshit of it getting light and dark at different times. It needs to get light at 7 in the morning, and dark at 8 in the evening, all year round, everywhere.
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And you can't see the sun in the state of Washington anyway.
Weren't we just keeping it (Score:2)
True story, the Fast Food joints in my hometown successfully fought off projects to build freeways through town for years because they didn't folks hopping on a freeway to get across town and not passing their restaurants on the way to work.
I was around when the USA did this, it was hell. (Score:2, Interesting)
I was around the last time the USA got rid of daylight-savings time, in 1973-1975. It was total hell. Children went to school in pitch darkness and bitter cold, and people drove to work in the dark. I can't imagine who would want this again. You get rid of a one-hour change for a much worse difficulty every day for months on end.
These days, many more working people travel regularly than in 1973, when jet travel was so unreachable for the common man that rich people were called the "jet set". Most working p
Re:I was around when the USA did this, it was hell (Score:5, Informative)
I was around the last time the USA got rid of daylight-savings time, in 1973-1975. It was total hell. Children went to school in pitch darkness and bitter cold, and people drove to work in the dark. I can't imagine who would want this again. You get rid of a one-hour change for a much worse difficulty every day for months on end.
These days, many more working people travel regularly than in 1973, when jet travel was so unreachable for the common man that rich people were called the "jet set". Most working people today deal with much worse than a one-hour change on a regular basis.
Technically, that was actually year-round Daylight Saving Time, i.e., elimination of standard time, not elimination of DST. But the first link suggests that's also what is proposed here (they technically don't hate DST, just the change--and so-called "standard time," in which we actually now spend less time of the year in than DST--is usually the one people object to). This would indeed make the morning sunrise later with respect to the clock, an issue in winter for many regions of the US, the argument usually being that children would go to school in the dark in the morning (I'm not sure the "going to work" argument would hold up since where I live, it's already dark after work during standard time by late November, so it's either one or the other).
Re:I was around when the USA did this, it was hell (Score:4, Interesting)
Depends on where you live, as in latitude and longitude. My Province is wide enough that there is an hour difference between the east and west parts. One part gets screwed either way when sunrise varies by an hour across the time zone.
Then there's the north where the sun comes up at maybe 10:00 and sets at 2:00 or worse. Doesn't matter where you set the clocks, it's usually dark and cold.
I'm dreading the next week as I'll be getting up an hour early and love this news as my Premier basically said, "whatever California, Oregon and Washington does, we'll do as we should all be in sync". Feds aren't involved here either. Don't understand why your feds get to say what timezone a State is in.
There's also a private members bill in the legislature to create a new time zone along the coast, always on DST. Might even pass if the Greens support it.
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I'm dreading the next week as I'll be getting up an hour early and love this news as my Premier basically said, "whatever California, Oregon and Washington does, we'll do as we should all be in sync".
California, Oregon, Washington, and British Columbia should form their own country.
(I'm a Washington resident, and I'm not sure if I'm joking or not...)
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Perhaps, and don't forget the Yukon and Alaska. Problem is that secession is not easy. Most of the States and all of the Provinces would have to agree, probably along with our respective Federal governments. Also a referendum with a clear majority here, none of that 50%+1 means we're leaving. It's unclear what a clear majority is.
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Sounds like BREXIT.
Good luck!
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The West shall rise again!
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I'm not sure hell is the right word for it. My friends and I enjoyed having an excuse to take a flashlight to school.
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Perhaps you might find hell to be enjoyable, but for most, if you are enjoying aspects of it, it's not hell.
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Yeah I was going to school back then, and I don't recall it being "hell" either.
You know what was hell? Back when we failed about 10 school levies in a row, and our school district implemented a split-schedule high school. I was going from 7am to 12 noon, and then for sports had to come back to school at 5pm. Now THAT was a pain in the keister.
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Children went to school in pitch darkness and bitter cold, and people drove to work in the dark.
This makes no sense since DST does not apply in winter. Are you being sarcastic? Is DST somehow shifting the tilt of the earth's axis?
You don't want to commute in darkness? Then move to a lower latitude. I lived in a far-north country once, and know how much long winter nights suck.
A 1-hour shift in winter clock setting would only solve that problem for a narrow band of latitude anyway.
Or get your local school system to adapt. How can you blame a summertime clock shift?
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This makes no sense since DST does not apply in winter.
Did you miss the part where he said "the last time the USA got rid of daylight-savings time"? Apparently this was a "summer time year round" situation. I would have been a little kid on a 30-minute school bus ride at the time (rural school because living in a subdivision in the middle of nowhere), so that's probably why I don't remember it. I was in the middle of Central Time at the time, and ended up settling down around the same longitude in my adult life. But I did spend one year on the eastern side of C
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This makes no sense since DST does not apply in winter.
Did you miss the part where he said "the last time the USA got rid of daylight-savings time"?
Nope.
Apparently this was a "summer time year round" situation.
Ah, I did miss that part. This would be the problem then, advancing the clock. No reason not to abolish DST.
Re:I was around when the USA did this, it was hell (Score:4, Interesting)
The correct way to fix that is to change what time school and work starts. Not to change everyone's clocks. 7am or 8am may have been pitch darkness where you were. Other places it was fine. The places which are affected by longer night (higher latitudes, further west in the time zone) can simply change the start times for school and business in winter. If you insist on changing the clocks, everyone is affected - even people in areas where the time change offers no benefit and is tremendously inconvenient.
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The correct way to fix that is to change what time school and work starts. Not to change everyone's clocks
Except that it's much simpler to change the clock than to change every schedule, or worse, only part of the schedules.
If you insist on changing the clocks, everyone is affected - even people in areas where the time change offers no benefit and is tremendously inconvenient.
Then those areas can choose not to change the clock.
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In Australia the summer day is long and very hot. DST helps separate trades people and office workers on the road. One wants to avoid most of the heat of the day a and the other wants a little day left over.
I think Seasonal Affective Disorder is also influenced by this, especially during winter when day becomes much shorter.
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I can't image who wouldn't want this. Kids and adults alike, that extra hour of daylight after school or work is way better th
I Don't Understand (Score:2)
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I was a part-time researcher at a college in Norway for three years. I'd come out in the summer and work for a month or so. There were 2 or three hours of darkness at night. But this was obviously a lot less of a burden than the 9 hour time change every time I flew there and back.
These days it is not unusual for me to go from California to Europe every month, or at least to another US time zone. You learn jet-lag regimens, how to time your flights, you get the right drugs from your doctor (never Ambien - I
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I wonder if these people complaining about a 1-hour change never even cross the country.
A real good chance they are retired and living in the south, where the daylight/Dark cycle is less variable. Some of them are so localized they don't even want time zones, only the time where they happen to reside. That sounds like a strawman, but I've had arguments with the selfsame people in here.
Move our clocks back 30 minutes... (Score:2)
And be done with this. No fucking reason to keep doing it anymore!
Let's move to the real DST (Score:2)
I get that switching times twice a year is bad.... (Score:2)
About time! (heh) (Score:2)
Bad title (Score:3)
They want to keep Daylight Saving Time year-round, not abolish it.
Previous efforts had been to establish Standard Time year round, but it turns out people prefer that hour of sunlight in the evening rather than the morning.
And, if the US Congress won’t allow it, the fallback is that Washington State move to Mountain Standard Time year round.
I live in Washington State, and I support this message. And yes, I was a kid (in Washington State, no less) the last time the US as a whole tried this... and I don’t remember it being problematic for me.
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Previous efforts had been to establish Standard Time year round, but it turns out people prefer that hour of sunlight in the evening rather than the morning.
Until they've experienced long mornings without sunlight, and then they'll miss it.
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Until they've experienced long mornings without sunlight, and then they'll miss it.
I can only speak for myself, but - right now, in December and January, I'm going to work in the dark and coming home in the dark (Standard Time sunset in Seattle mid-December: 4:20pm). I wouldn't mind a chance to occasionally see some light as I'm leaving my office... of course, it'll be grey rainy light but whatever.
RENAME IT: Nazi Time. (Score:2)
Maybe people will be willing to lift a finger to kill Nazi time. I'm speaking of course for other countries and post Trump USA...
It's a German WAR TIME creation to save fuel. It's actually WW1 when nobody had electric light; but people objecting to calling it Nazi time would have educate others just how even more pointlessly stupid it is for us to have War Time.
Biblical reference (Score:2)
I think the Bible says on the topic:
or something similar ;-)
DST by geographical area (Score:2)
Some places benefit more from DST than others. Here in Ireland where there's only 7 hours of light in winter, DST moves those hours so those 7 hours occur at the more useful time of day. For summer we get 7 hours of night, so the change allows for better night time hours.
So here DST is very useful.
Location is everything when discussing DST, yet I've never seen a survey that links desire to keep/remove DST linked to location, specifically latitude and distance from your time-zone defining longitude. (i.e.
The very term Daylight Saving Time shows ignorance (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:The very term Daylight Saving Time shows ignora (Score:5, Informative)
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And most people I know get up around 9AM ... not sure what you actually want to say.
The further you are from the equator... (Score:2)
...the less your opinion about daylight saving matters.
People whose lives are comfortable blow minor things up so they have something to complain about. Taking advantage of as much daylight as we can is a good idea. These idiots will be the first to complain that it's dark in the winter.
Would be funny if... (Score:2)
Like Clockwork (Score:3)
Screw the Feds (Score:2)
What are they going to do, roll tanks across the border of states that dare defy the time change?
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Nothing is stopping you from fucking with your own clocks twice a year but the rest of us have better things to do.
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Nothing is stopping you from leaving your clocks alone either.
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Nothing is stopping you from leaving your clocks alone either.
I think everyone should use their Gawd given right to determine their own time. See my queef based time system elsewhere in this topic.
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Nothing is stopping you from fucking with your own clocks twice a year but the rest of us have better things to do.
Wow - you're usually not so intense, my man.
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No it is provably a matter of deaths and maiming because of this stupidity of screwing around with the clock.
If you need to save candle tallow, the centuries old reason this system was invented, then jerk around with your own clock on your own time
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I want to cast Magic Missile.