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Privacy Facebook Social Networks

'Why Data, Not Privacy, Is the Real Danger' (nbcnews.com) 99

Posted by EditorDavid from the probing-your-profile dept.
"While it's creepy to imagine companies are listening in to your conversations, it's perhaps more creepy that they can predict what you're talking about without actually listening," writes an NBC News technology correspondent, arguing that data, not privacy, is the real danger. Your data -- the abstract portrait of who you are, and, more importantly, of who you are compared to other people -- is your real vulnerability when it comes to the companies that make money offering ostensibly free services to millions of people. Not because your data will compromise your personal identity. But because it will compromise your personal autonomy. "Privacy as we normally think of it doesn't matter," said Aza Raskin, co-founder of the Center for Humane Technology [and a former Mozilla team leader]. "What these companies are doing is building little models, little avatars, little voodoo dolls of you. Your doll sits in the cloud, and they'll throw 100,000 videos at it to see what's effective to get you to stick around, or what ad with what messaging is uniquely good at getting you to do something...."

With 2.3 billion users, "Facebook has one of these models for one out of every four humans on earth. Every country, culture, behavior type, socio-economic background," said Raskin. With those models, and endless simulations, the company can predict your interests and intentions before you even know them.... Without having to attach your name or address to your data profile, a company can nonetheless compare you to other people who have exhibited similar online behavior...
A professor at Columbia law school decries the concentrated power of social media as "a single point of failure for democracy." But the article also warns about the dangers of health-related data collected from smartwatches. "How will people accidentally cursed with the wrong data profile get affordable insurance?"
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'Why Data, Not Privacy, Is the Real Danger' More

'Why Data, Not Privacy, Is the Real Danger'

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  • I don't see either as much of a problem (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Saturday February 09, 2019 @01:55PM (#58095228)
    both misuse of collected data and privacy violations are symptoms of large problems with wealth inequality. Folks aren't mining your data and invading your privacy for fun (outside of 4chaners and internet trolls), they're doing it so they can monopolize everything and get away with it.

    Basically, I've got bigger fish to fry. I lack consistent access to healthcare, I can't pay for my kid's education (and it's fucked up I have to pay for it given that she's gonna use that education to spend the next 50 years working her ass off), my wages are about 20% less than they were before the 2008 market crash and the powers that be like it that way and are busy gearing up for the next recession. These are the problems that keep me up at night, not Facebook figuring out that I like Transformers more than GI Joe.

    • Folks aren't mining your data and invading your privacy for fun (outside of 4chaners and internet trolls), they're doing it so they can monopolize everything and get away with it.

      As long as capitalism and free market dogma is worshipped there is little chance. You can't reform the beast. I watched as videogmae companies stole videogame software out from under us on the PC for the last 20 years beginning with mmo's. The internet has created a society that conflicts with private ownership. How would anyone have stopped Valve from inserting drm into half-life? AKA in order for there to be a market you need to be able to stop bad behavior, the only way you could have done thta in 2

  • There's really not much that is going to help you anyway and your concern might need to be boring to death anyone that looks at your life.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      The author's intent seems to be an effort at protecting "the masses" from themselves.

      Am I one of them? Do I need protecting? I have enough mental fortitude to say "No" to an online add that is pushing me to buy something I don't need. I am capable of inhibiting impulsiveness and delaying gratification for my own long-term greater good. As such, no amount of virtual voodoo-doll modeling will ever give these companies the power to control my decisions.

      Am I so unique? Does my capacity for critical thinkin

  • Autocorrect cannot even properly fixed words typed on phones... yet these companies can predict what I'm saying!? HA!

  • Here's how to do that ... (Score:3)

    by CaptainDork ( 3678879 ) on Saturday February 09, 2019 @02:06PM (#58095286)

    Declare private data to be IP and copyrighted by the entity creating the IP.

    Calculate the value of the IP by examining the revenue generated from it.

    Pay royalties to the owners of the private IP whenever and wherever the data is used/reused, in perpetuity.

    For those who don't wish to sell their IP, allow them to opt out. Any private IP harvested will be theft.

    I have to think of everything and stuff.

    • Calculate the value of the IP by examining the revenue generated from it.

      No, let the owner of the data set the price. That's the way property works. If I have a house, and you offer me "reasonable price" (or even 100x its reasonable value) for my house, I am in no way obligated to sell you my house. Also, it should be opt-in, not opt-out...

      • In the case of social media, you opt in by using social media.

        Personally, I have opted out of having accounts for Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Google, EBay, PayPal, various chat programs, Pinterest and whatever else.

        Can I still be tracked and data mined? Sure. But at least I am opting out of a lot of the shit people are complaining about.

        • I just dumped Facebook. I downloaded all the data (going back to 2009).

          I used the Chrome extension, Social Book Post Manager to delete all the data and then Deleted. I did not Deactivate.

          I have until March 9 to log back in or it's gone. I have no expectations that Facebook actually deleted the shit.

          I have burner Facebook accounts. Hell, I have burner accounts on most social media.

          I'm pretty sure they track me by a shit load of metrics including browser signature but, like you, it's the best I can do,

      • Not a bad point. I am a photographer. I set my price according to what the market will bear. To do that, I look examine the revenue stream of the client.

        For those who make a killing, I can get more than a mom & pop.

        I sell the same photo to either at greatly different prices.

  • Data Is The New Oil (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Data is going to replace oil as the most important commodity of the world. We're going to shift from the petrodollar to the datadollar--or perhaps some other data currency...

    • When was that, like 15 years ago?

      I don't know if you just made it back to the surface, or you used a time machine, but either way: Welcome!

  • Good (Score:2)

    by ET3D ( 1169851 )

    If stores could sell me exactly what I'd be happy with, ads I see would be truly relevant, and news sites would show me news I'm interested in, that would be very helpful.

  • It's not data or the privacy aspect, but it's the assumptions made based on incomplete models.

    Unfortunately, there are not enough data points, or rather it is currently impossible to collect and make use of enough data points to create an accurate model to predict/depict a person's actions, thoughts, intent, and whether or not they do something.

    Also unfortunate is that people are being prosecuted based on assumptions, not actual evidence.

    • Sorry Ivan, but I'm skeptical that you really want us to do better data analysis. If you were so concerned about it, you'd realize that we already have lots of datapoints. A data glut, in fact.

  • How? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ve3oat ( 884827 ) on Saturday February 09, 2019 @02:48PM (#58095526) Homepage
    The summary asked "How will people accidentally cursed with the wrong data profile get affordable insurance?"

    Answer : Move to Canada. We pay our taxes and the provincial governments provide health care. No middle men. The doctors, nurses and administrators all get paid ultimately by the provincial governments, depending on which province you live in. No external investors wanting big profits. Health care in Canada is (mostly) self-invested by the tax-paying citizens. Even non-citizens and people who are too poor to pay taxes get the same health care as the rest of us. Sure, there are things that can be improved in our system, but one thing is paramount -- no middle men who exist just to get profits out of the system. Some Americans call it "socialism". I have never met an American who really understood socialism. Whatever you want to call it, it works.

    As for privacy, that is another problem, caused, I suspect, mostly by big American companies. I wish they would all stay away from my country.

    • "How will people accidentally cursed with the wrong data profile get affordable insurance?"

      Or the United States could adopt single-payer Medicare for All and that would not be an issue.

    • an advanced degree. Otherwise they won't have you. If sick folks could move to Canada they'd have around 29 million US Healthcare refugees (based on the number of uninsured).

      My personal favorite example of cluelessness was when Sarah Palin (a right wing American politician who champions the Free Market), in an effort to show people how poor she was talked about how she couldn't afford medical care for her kids and had to take them across the border into Canada.

      And by all accounts the story worked wi

  • We know what you're thinking before you think (Score:3)

    by mspohr ( 589790 ) on Saturday February 09, 2019 @02:59PM (#58095622)

    This is the relevant part:
    Your data -- the abstract portrait of who you are, and, more importantly, of who you are compared to other people -- is your real vulnerability when it comes to the companies that make money offering ostensibly free services to millions of people. Not because your data will compromise your personal identity. But because it will compromise your personal autonomy. "Privacy as we normally think of it doesn't matter," said Aza Raskin, co-founder of the Center for Humane Technology [and a former Mozilla team leader]. "What these companies are doing is building little models, little avatars, little voodoo dolls of you. Your doll sits in the cloud, and they'll throw 100,000 videos at it to see what's effective to get you to stick around, or what ad with what messaging is uniquely good at getting you to do something...."

  • Adblockers, and a practiced lack of attention (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Rick Schumann ( 4662797 ) on Saturday February 09, 2019 @03:08PM (#58095694) Journal
    You want to foil these nosy corporate assholes? Use an Adblocker 100% of the time (I recommend uBlock Origin), NoScript, and most of all, a well-practiced lack of attention for any and all ads that can't be handled by the above. Additionally, either clear your cookies when you close your browser, or use an add-on that clears cookies not whitelisted. You don't have to be subjected to ads, and you can train yourself to let them roll off your forebrain like water off a duck's back and not make their way into your memory.

    Of course you should also do everything you can to reduce your digital footprint as much as possible: do not use your real name online, ever. Stay away from so-called 'social media' (which is just a honeytrap for your very-much-personal data anyway; be 'social' for real with people you care to stay in touch with). Don't send anything sensitive in email or even text messages, always assume it's compromised. Don't use 'The Cloud' to store anything for any reason, assume it's compromised and being sifted through, regardless of what they tell you; keep your own data on storage devices you own and physically control. Don't allow people to post pictures of you online, ever; easier by the way to not allow people to take pictures of you in the first place. Don't use a smartphone; they're close to impossible to keep secure, and are easily compromised (documentably so, and if you don't believe that then you're not paying attention). At the very least, limit smartphone internet access as much as possible, and never for anything personally sensitive, always assume your wireless company is snooping into everything you use it for. I'd recommend using a VPN as much as possible except for the fact that you can't necessarily trust VPN providers any more than you can trust wireless companies and ISPs. Likewise I'd recommend using TOR as much as possible, but there's evidence to suggest TOR is compromised, or at least is easily compromised; if you do use TOR, be aware of what country the exit node resides in, and keep changing it until it comes up in a country that (at least theoretically) has laws respecting peoples' privacy (i.e. Russia or Ukraine are bad choices, for instance).

    I think the above gives you the general idea. The 'Information Age' has given way to the 'Age of Snooping'. You're right to be paranoid, because someone is indeed watching you, more likely many 'someones'. The only way to 100% protect your privacy anymore is to never use the internet and not have a telephone of any kind (including a landline); i.e. have zero digital footprint. It's possible to live that way but very difficult. The best most of us can do is be vigilant and careful about what we do and say online. Some may say 'The damage is already done, there's no point in trying anymore', but that's nonsense, if you start paying attention and limiting your digital footprint as much as posssible today, after a while all the data that's been collected on you will 'go stale' and predictions of what you might do and say will become less accurate as more time passes. Do yourself a solid and work to make their data on you less accurate.

  • How did they get all this data of yours. Oh, because of a complete lack of privacy in modern computing that allows companies to scoop up every little detail about you and what you do.

    • How did they get all this data of yours.

      The private ownership of software companies + wires that go from microsoft HQ but connect every household on the planet, means all they have to do is cut the software in half and everyone on an endpoint of a telephone pole/fibre optic cable can be taken over like childs play.

  • Dont have a network in your own name.
    Use a VPN.
    Pack out searching for unrelated topics.
    Need a smartphone for work? Only use it for work.
    Need a smartphone to be contacted outside work? Use it only for that.
    Email? Use your ISP email for short messages with not content or context.
    Pay for an email service.
    Talk to people on the phone. Stay away for free internet "services". Your content is the product sold.
    Don't use social media.

    Enjoy the internet but don't keep adding anything about yourself to
    • 1. Just because you pay for a service, doesn't mean that service isn't collecting or reporting data.

      2. Capitalism is about competing on costs. If you pay for services then you are increasing your cost of living, and subsequentially your "minimum wage". This reduces the competitiveness of your wage in the marketplace, or at minimum reduces the flexibility and growth potential of your spare change after bills. This may not be a problem if your skills are rare enough you can command a salary sufficient to a

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by AHuxley ( 892839 )
        The cost of giving away search data connected to a person by the person will add up over decades.
        Best to use a VPN.
        A quality for work email service should not search and sell content of email like the "free" services have to.
        Try and avoid using the same network for work, study, a hobby, healthcares care.

  • Disqus (Score:3)

    by memnock ( 466995 ) on Sunday February 10, 2019 @12:24AM (#58097638)

    A lot of web sites' comment sections rely on Disqus. I haven't looked into Disqus, but if they are like any other of the platforms, they accumulate all the comments a user makes across all the websites that that user logs into on Disqus. How long before Disqus is bought by one of the big 5? Then all those users' comments are linked back to FB or or something else.

  • In my case - and I'm not unique - I click on many different things and will study many different things. I need serendipity to build the overview of life that my mind craves. This sometimes makes it funny to see the "targeted ads" that show up for me. But those ads can be a problem if they represent a model of me and they think they actually know who and what I am and what I want. They are constructing fixed, erroneous, models of people for their own convenience. They are making assumptions about people tha
  • That is some of the stuff protected by the German data protection laws, which arose from a court case about a census, and privacy was the central argument. That was before Google and Facebook, I believe.

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