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Government United States Politics

Federal Shutdown May Send Millennial Workers To Exits (techtarget.com) 284

Posted by BeauHD from the show-me-the-door dept.
dcblogs writes: The federal government measures the "engagement" of its federal workforce once a year with a massive survey of 1.5 million employees. And what it has found is that most federal workers are very dedicated to their work. Its most recent survey -- the 2018 Federal Employee Viewpoint Survey -- asked employees if they are "willing to put in extra effort to get their job done," 96% of the survey takers responded affirmatively. Moreover, 91% agreed with the statement that they "look for ways to do their jobs better," and 90% "believe their work is important." But this job dedication is being tested by the U.S. government shutdown, and most at risk of leaving are Millennial-age workers. Less than 6% of federal employees are under the age of 30 and represent half of all people who leave an agency within the first two years. The best employees have options, and "a major concern is that the brightest, hardest-working, and most capable, dedicated government employees may opt out of government service and take jobs in the private sector," Talya Bauer, professor of management at Portland State University in Oregon and president of the Society for Industrial and Organizational Psychology, said. The shutdown could hurt the reputation of the government as a good place to work, she said.
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Federal Shutdown May Send Millennial Workers To Exits More

Federal Shutdown May Send Millennial Workers To Exits

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  • Taking polls way too seriously here (Score:4, Insightful)

    by bigdavex ( 155746 ) on Friday January 11, 2019 @05:36PM (#57947014)

    How credulous do you have to be to think a survey like this means anything? Might as well ask, "Who here doesn't want to get fired?" Damn.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by gtall ( 79522 )

      These surveys are not like private industry surveys. They are not used to root out malcontents and the people responding are well protected.

      • These surveys are not like private industry surveys. They are not used to root out malcontents and the people responding are well protected.

        Exactly. If you give the wrong answers, you will not be fired. You will just be assigned to the cubicle next to the photocopier machines.

    • It's definitely not about getting fired (the funding levels aren't likely to change, so the jobs will still be there when the shutdown ends). My bet is it's because younger employees are far less likely to have savings. Without savings, they're basically forced to find other jobs just to make ends meet. I suspect that this is the strongest driving factor rather than any cultural issues.
      • Younger employees may also be more likely to be contractors who won't get back-pay for the duration of the shutdown.

  • If you think workers are concerned about politics resulting in a government shutdown, consider this:
    If you work in private industry, you can be a victim of a mass-layoff, and you never know its coming, so you should have emergency $$$ savings to prepare for that possibility, just as you should if you work for government - in case of political issues causing funding shortfall come the end of the fiscal year.

    With this US government shutdown... employees had more than 60 days' warning that this was ext

    • Not only that you are in a much better bargaining position with prospective employers 'I am off work now because of government shutdown' then 'I got laid off' which carries a certain stigma.

    • Basically, stop living paycheck to paycheck. I think only 40% in the US do but if you can't handle a disruption or an unexpected payment then you're doing personal finance wrong.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by sjames ( 1099 )

        That is indeed easily said.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by penandpaper ( 2463226 )

          Saving money on a budget really isn't anymore harder than getting completely broad-sided by an unexpected payment or income disruption and having to deal with the reality of that situation.

          Going to bed hungry sucks. Eating the same crappy rice and beans for a month sucks too. Having holey shoes is no fun when it rains or snows. Inhibiting impulses to buy something with the savings collected is hard too.

          But those are easier than dealing with pay-day loans and financial uncertainty when laid off or furloughed

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by sjames ( 1099 )

            For some people, that works out. Others have kids or medical debt or the car drops the transmission, etc and there goes their safety margin and then some.

            • People can't create a personal budget to save money that can help them when a car drops the transmission, etc because they have debt and kids?

              Perhaps, you have never gone to bed hungry or ate food out of trash can but I can assure you that if someone doesn't have a personal budget they will be able to save some money if they create one.

              Saving money is hard. But having a mustard sandwich and drinking water for dinner to not have hunger pains until you sleep is very much easier than dealing with pay-day loans

              • I have a project for all those living paycheck to paycheck.

                Get a spreadsheet for your smart phone or bring a note pad everywhere. Note down every expense you incur and what it was for, the time of day, etc.

                Judging by what I know of the bay areas of California, I suspect a very large amount of people there spend significantly over $100/mo just in coffee shops and that they themselves have no idea that its as much as it is. Almost all of this money can only be attributed to convenience even if coffee is c

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by sjames ( 1099 )

                Not always, no. If you feed the kids mustard sandwiches or trash can food, CPS may come knocking. A few hours in the ER can wipe out more than a year's salary quicker than you can say "what's all this going to cost?". Sometimes that happens even WITH health insurance. If your expenses exceed your income, you won't be able to save money. And not all expenses are optional.

                I'm not saying nobody in financial trouble is the architect of their own problem, but I am calling BS on the idea that everyone is able to

      • Basically, stop living paycheck to paycheck.

        Yeah those fuckers should just be rich and screw them if they're not.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gtall ( 79522 )

      Oh, want to quiz the rest of the country about that. It had your 60 days warning but the horror stories about the fallout are now coming out and they are not pretty. During Reagan's tenure, the government was forced to privatize many functions. Many of those functions are not getting done, and the people working in those private companies are getting hurt. The farmers are also taking it in the neck, but that's what they get for supporting a bozo.

    • employees had more than 60 days' warning

      They had 60 days warning of maybe. If it were me, I'd just look for other work - evidently I"m not alone in this idea.

      making the whole thing essentially a 20+ day paid vacation

      Except they don't get a vacation, they still have to work their government jobs for free, in most cases. And 20+ days? The president (the guy holding the country hostage, in the name of freedom from Mexicans, the guy that started this whole mess) is saying that this may go on for months or years.

      So your plan for these government workers is that they should work their free job AND a sid

      • They had 60 days warning of maybe. If it were me, I'd just look for other work

        Good on you. This makes it easier for the smart people that, you know, take advantage of the unemployment insurance they have been paying into.

        But meh... to each their own I guess.. dont want to discourage you from stupidly leaving money on the table...

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mark-t ( 151149 )

      If you work in private industry, you can be a victim of a mass-layoff, and you never know its coming, so you should have emergency $$$ savings to prepare for that possibility, just as you should if you work for government - in case of political issues causing funding shortfall come the end of the fiscal year.

      Emergency savings to prepare for the possibility of being out of work has its limits, and generally still depends on being able to collect EI while you look for other work.

      But people are still employ

      • Unpaid government workers just collect unemployment and then have to pay it back when they get their backpay. It nets out to a forced paid vacation. I'm happy to take a bonus vacation if you just require me to do a little paperwork.

        It's not like this has never happened to them before and they don't know what to do or how to navigate the system.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by guruevi ( 827432 )

      I was about to say the same thing. Job dedication at any company would be 90%+ too if they paid 135% of industry wages nearly guaranteed for the rest of your life with limitless mobility within the company and some of the best benefits.

      The government seems to "work" fine, everything essential is self-funding or exempt from shutdowns including many national and state parks. The bean counters and middle managers and a few millennial hipsters - things would function a lot better without all of them there.

      • Government jobs are not 135% higher than the equivalent in private industry. Though I do agree that government jobs are one of the last holdouts for having decent pension plans.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by guruevi ( 827432 )

          Not 135% higher, 135% of (or 35% more)

          $76,470 for average federal government wages vs $44,600 for average private sector wages - actually 42% although it's misleading because government workers don't make as much at the high ends (eg >250k) whereas private sector it isn't nearly as rare.

          • It's not 135% on a like-for-like job basis, though.

          • $76,470 for average federal government wages vs $44,600 for average private sector wages

            Those are misleading figures, because you're aggregating over industry sectors and the representation in those sectors is not uniform. Many of what would be low-paid government employees are now subcontracted out. If you go sector-by-sector, the government pays OK, but not stellar.

            IOW, It's not like a programmer in the governemnt is earning 35% more than a programmer in industry.

          • $76,470 for average federal government wages vs $44,600 for average private sector wages

            What? That's an insane comparison. That's like complaining about how overpaid programmers are because average salaries at high-tech firms are higher than average salaries at janitorial companies. Why, I'm really upset that my neighbor the VP of finance at a large company makes huuuuge bucks while I'm getting $12/hour for my cashier job at the local grocery store while living in my parents' basement! We both work with

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Ken D ( 100098 )

      and many furloughed employees will be entitled to automatic back pay

      Um, no. Those "essential" employees who've been forced to work without a paycheck are entitled automatically. Everyone furloughed is at risk of never seeing a dime for the time that they expected to be working but weren't. No government shutdown has ever led to employees missing out on their paychecks but it wouldn't surprise me if this wasn't another trumpian first.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by mysidia ( 191772 )

        Um, no. Those "essential" employees who've been forced to work without a paycheck are entitled automatically.

        Regardless of how "essential" an employee is thought to be --- unless they're military enlisted, they cannot actually be "forced" to work without pay. The employee can simply decline, go on strike, be a no-show, call in sick, etc.

        After every shutdown; Congress consistently passes a bill providing backpay for the furloughed employees.
        That's what is in the works already [house.gov].

        • They also just collect unemployment in the meantime, then have to pay it back after they get their check.

    • another job. The reason to work for the government is so you don't have to do that every 2-3 years when the stock price dips a little or the CEO wants a new boat. If you take that away you'll end up with bottom feeders.

      But that's kind of the point. The GOP is actively trying to sabotage the government so they can privatize everything and turn every aspect of our lives into cash cows. They even have a name for it, they call it "Starve the Beast".

      TL;DR; Put people in charge of government who either do

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Sigma 7 ( 266129 )

      . employees had more than 60 days' warning that this was extremely likely to happen,

      The flipside is that the employers also had more than 60 days to make sure that it wouldn't happen. In fact, they had decades to do so.

      The USA is adjacent to another country which doesn't have shutdown panics at all. This is handled by two methods - first is that the governor can issue warrants from the treasury to ensure that public employees get paid, and second is that failing to pass a budget is known as a non-confidenc

  • "The federal government measures the "engagement" of its federal workforce once a year with a massive survey of 1.5 million employees. And what it has found is that most federal workers are very dedicated to their work. Its most recent survey -- the 2018 Federal Employee Viewpoint Survey -- asked employees if they are "willing to put in extra effort to get their job done," 96% of the survey takers responded affirmatively. Moreover, 91% agreed with the statement that they "look for ways to do their jobs bett

  • 'When asked if they are "willing to put in extra effort to get their job done," 96% of 2018 survey takers gave a positive result, said Mallory Bulman, vice president of research and evaluation at the Partnership for Public Service, a nonprofit, nonpartisan group that works with government officials on workforce management issues. Moreover, 91% agreed with the statement that they "look for ways to do their jobs better," and 90% "believe their work is important."'

    96% sounds amazing... but when you ask that sa

    • Not comparable to private industry surveys because anybody that admits that they would be willing to work harder for the same money in the private sector is a complete moron and will get exactly that.

  • Wait - I thought you said "Millennials" (Score:4, Funny)

    by xxxJonBoyxxx ( 565205 ) on Friday January 11, 2019 @05:42PM (#57947064)
    >> the brightest, hardest-working, and most capable, dedicated government employees may opt out of government service

    Wait - I thought you said "Millennials"
    • Who better to waste taxpayer money ; )

    • Actually, if the premise is correct, it may be the best news coming out of this.

  • "The shutdown could hurt the reputation of the government as a good place to work..."

    Isn't that just what conservatives have been working toward for decades?

    • Small good government != small ineffectual government.

    • "The shutdown could hurt the reputation of the government as a good place to work..."

      Isn't that just what conservatives have been working toward for decades?

      No.

      If the only reason you work for the government is because the pay and promotion is (was) a guaranteed thing, then maybe you need to look for a different job.

      If, OTOH, you are working there because you want to do the work and do something you feel is beneficial to your fellow citizens and all that, then the government is still a good place to work, because it is doing a lot of things that aren't done in private enterprise.

  • Sounds good to me, too! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by King_TJ ( 85913 ) on Friday January 11, 2019 @05:45PM (#57947098) Journal

    I live near DC and never hear the end of all the moaning and whining when government does a shut-down. I mean, it really does reach the absurd at times. I remember last time there was a shutdown, I was at a full service car wash in Gaithersburg, MD. This lady in front of me rolls in with a high-end luxury full size SUV, and asks to have it fully detailed and waxed. While we're standing in line, she proceeds to tell me how the government shutdown has made everything so stressful for her.... and she just decided to get the car all cleaned up since she had all this time to kill now.

    It only took about 2 days of this shut-down before people were on all the news stations, talking about their struggle. (None of them were even close to missing 1 paycheck yet!)

    I really do get that the younger people, who just got a first "real job" doing something for Federal govt., would be far more impacted ... But hey, I *never* accepted a government job for this reason. Always felt like the private sector made more sense. I don't like knowing my paycheck is covered by tax revenue they forcibly take from everybody else who works, and everything is subject to voters voting people in or out of office, legislation changing what government plans to do next, etc. Federal govt. jobs have different sets of perks, too, though. It's very difficult to get fired from most government jobs, for example. Even the idiots trying to watch porn while on the job often just got a slap on the wrist and kept their employment.... If you're a real screw up, you sometimes even get a promotion, because it's the only easy way for your superior to get rid of having to deal with you.

    • I live near DC and never hear the end of all the moaning and whining when government does a shut-down.

      Oh no please, feel moan and whine about it on Slashdot. -_-

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by sjames ( 1099 )

      It only took about 2 days of this shut-down before people were on all the news stations, talking about their struggle. (None of them were even close to missing 1 paycheck yet!)

      If they actually wait until they miss that paycheck to scramble and make arrangements, they're doing it wrong.

    • :-) Awww you meanie! Don't you know the truth hurts, is more boring, and is depressing to the 70% of folks living paycheck to paycheck so they can buy an iPhone 7? Plus, it doesn't sell ads on news networks (unacceptable!). How dare you suggest people should take responsibility for their own finances. You're gonna make Uncle Sam and the media powerful angry with talk like that. Next thing we know, you'll be suggesting that parents plan their pregnancies or pay for their own kids (since, ya know, they made
    • it's only because the GOP has been actively sabotaging the government [youtube.com] that this is a problem. This entire shutdown mess is entirely a creation of the GOP.

      And I see what you did there with your anecdote where you tell a story with the most obnoxious person anyone can imagine (Big SUV, detailing, of course a Lady because there's a meme for that [google.com]). Let that rub off on anyone who complains about the shutdown.

      I mean, if we're gonna talk about obnoxious folks in the shutdown there's this gem [msnbc.com]. But there's

  • What are millenials doing working for the government anyway. Private sector is on fire. Go make some money while it's easier to make.

  • Brightest will go private sector for money? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by poity ( 465672 ) on Friday January 11, 2019 @06:16PM (#57947284)

    Why didn't they do that in the first place?

    • Why didn't they do that in the first place?

      Not wanting to be at the whims of offshoring and quarterly results? Desire for a more stable job? Wanting to work in a particular location? Wanting to so interesting work that's hard to find in the private sector? Stability? Lack of inane crunch time?

      There's tons of reasons that government jobs can be good. But not being paid is not one of them.

  • This affects intel agents and data security (Score:4, Interesting)

    by WillAffleckUW ( 858324 ) on Friday January 11, 2019 @06:22PM (#57947324) Homepage Journal

    A large quantity of patriotic native born Americans, who are millenials, are impacted by this. I personally know of quite a few that had been considering work in data security and in intelligence or law enforcement services for the US who are affected.

    How can you trust people when they throw you under the bus because they don't want to look foolish?

  • Historical survey results (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Solandri ( 704621 ) on Friday January 11, 2019 @06:45PM (#57947438)
    Normally you want to compare stats like these against the general population as a basis for comparison, to figure out if an organization (the government in this case) deviates substantially from the average for the population. Failing that, you can compare a subset of the population (government workers) against itself in past years. That won't tell you where that subset stands relative to the general population, but it will tell you changes (first derivative).

    The 2018 report [opm.gov] has historical results for the same survey questions from 2014-2018, and 2013 report [opm.gov] show results from 2010-2013 (it appears the questions in the summary were introduced in 2010).

    "willing to put in extra effort" has remained consistent at 96%. "look for ways to do job better" consistently between 90%-91%. "work is important" consistently between 90%-91%. Basically, government employees' attitudes about these factors has not changed in 8 years (which takes us through one change in President's party, control of the House, and control of the Senate). And there is no evidence to indicate they are changing.

    The survey questions whose results did change are:
    • "I am given a real opportunity to improve my skills in my organization." Dipped from 66% in 2010 to 59% in 2014, back up to 66% by 2018.
    • "I feel encouraged to come up with new and better ways of doing things." Same trend as above. 60% to 55% to 61% in 2010, 2014, and 2018
    • "My training needs are assessed." 54% in 2010, dropping to 50% in 2014, rising to 55% by 2018.
    • "I can disclose a suspected violation of any law, rule or regulation without fear of reprisal." 61% from 2010-2014, but rising to 66% by 2018
    • " In my most recent performance appraisal, I understood what I had to do to be rated at different performance levels (for example, Fully Successful, Outstanding)." 67% from 2010-2014, but rising to 71% by 2018.

    These are the survey questions which indicate changes in government employee attitude (apparently there was more doom and gloom around 2014). That TFA focuses instead on three survey questions whose results have not changed, and discussed them with respect to a current event which could not yet have influenced the survey results, suggests the authors of TFA were just looking for an excuse to write an opinion piece, not report the news.

    • Narrative. Thats what it is.

      As you have noted, they are generally more confident about things since Trump got elected.
  • Having been a fed employee, the problem of younger people leaving has been a problem known for a while. I remember taking a survey around 2006 (may have been the one mentioned in the article) and accompany info for the survey included the high leave rate of young employees. One can deal with less job satisfaction for more job security if they have things such as marriages, kids, mortgages the younger don't have. This shutdown will just encourage a little more of the known issue

  • Plenty of millennials in the Coast Guard, who aren't getting paid.

    • Plenty of millennials in the Coast Guard, who aren't getting paid.

      These are truly people who are doing it for the job and not the money.

      Why is the USCG not under DOD who are still being paid? It now looks stupid that they aren't. Every person who is pointing at the Coast Guard and using them as a talking point against the shutdown is calling them a necessary coastal defense. Why not Department of Defense, then?

      • Because they are part of the Department of Homeland Security and perform law enforcement duties.

        You really really really dont want the DoD to be a law enforcement agency. Seriously. If the government ever moves to make that happen , then I implore you to march with me on Washington with rifle in hand.

  • What the heck are you talking about?

    Young people do not to get stuck in the 2.5% salary increase for the rest of their lives.

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