National Parks Face Years of Damage From Government Shutdown (nationalgeographic.com) 654
When the government eventually reopens, park experts warn reversing damage won't be as easy as throwing out the trash. From a report: National parks are America's public lands, but right now they're America's trashcans. That's because the U.S. federal government, embattled over funding for a border wall, has shut down, leaving national parks open and largely unattended. Since the shutdown began, brimming trashcans, overflowing toilets, and trespassing has been reported at many parks locations. "Never before have I seen the federal government tempt fate in national parks the way we are today," says Diane Regas, president of the Trust for Public Land. "It's not about what has happened already. It's about what could happen if you don't have the appropriate staffing."
According to the National Parks Conservation Association (NPCA), staffing varies by park, but some 16,000 parks service employees are furloughed, leaving a small number active for policing and security. The government shut down three times in 2018, but only three days last January and less than a day that following February. As of Friday, the government had been partially shut down for 13 days. Further reading: Government Shutdown is Putting a Damper on Science in Seattle and Elsewhere.
According to the National Parks Conservation Association (NPCA), staffing varies by park, but some 16,000 parks service employees are furloughed, leaving a small number active for policing and security. The government shut down three times in 2018, but only three days last January and less than a day that following February. As of Friday, the government had been partially shut down for 13 days. Further reading: Government Shutdown is Putting a Damper on Science in Seattle and Elsewhere.
What a shithole country! (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd expect something like this out of a third-world nation, not a world-leader.
How quickly you've fallen from your world power high in the mid 1970s.
SAD. But a few Boomers got rich so FUCK YEAH!!!
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Re:What a shithole country! (Score:4, Insightful)
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Uhm?
You consider a movie based on a comic to be the pinnacle of world culture?
The world politely disagrees.
Go home, USA, and come back once your Mahabharata is complete.
Bob Dylan winning the Nobel prize for literature does not count.
Re: What a shithole country! (Score:2)
In the worlds before Monkey, primal chaos reigned. Heaven sought order. But the phoenix can fly only when its feathers are grown.
A story to rival that of India's great epic. And, yes, there's no question it is a great epic. I've not finished reading, some parts are hard going. Then I've the great epics of Finland, Saxon Britain, Sumer and Greece to go.
The Irish and Welsh opted for collections of short stories. Good but not epics.
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In the worlds before Monkey, primal chaos reigned. Heaven sought order. But the phoenix can fly only when its feathers are grown.
A story to rival that of India's great epic. And, yes, there's no question it is a great epic. I've not finished reading, some parts are hard going.
Or... you could just watch the TV version.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey_(TV_series)
"It is a far, far better thing that I do now.. than YOU ever did."
- Monkey (Great Sage Equal of Heaven)
Re:What a shithole country! (Score:5, Insightful)
Uhm? You consider a movie based on a comic to be the pinnacle of world culture?
As a non-American, I'd consider the US entertainment industry including "Hollywood" to be a pinnacle of world culture. Yeah, there is trash coming out of there, but that's the case with everything. But there is a lot of creativity too, and a wide range of styles, opinions and influences. There is a certain snob belief among some elites, especially in Europe, that for something to be called "culture", it must be at least 300 years old (to be named "high culture", archeologists must have dug it out of the ground somewhere). Thats unjustified. Most new entertainment and news formats are pioneered in the US, be it movies, streaming video, "the golden age of TV", talk shows, late-night shows, SNL, cable news, heck, even presidential debates were invented there. How will this all be judged 300 years from now? Quite positively I think. These days even public latrines in ancient Rome are considered (quite plausibly) to be a major cultural achievement.
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You are assuming that they want to produce some unwatchable garbage. But then - "Crouching Tiger - Hidden Dragon" came pretty close.
My next question would be: what was the last chinese or indian movie you saw?
Re: What a shithole country! (Score:2)
Well, it wasn't strictly a Chinese show, although it was a Chinese story, or strictly a movie, but NBC/BBC's production of Monkey has no equals.
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Let's see Bollywood or China make something on the order of "Avengers: Endgame". USA still dominates world culture in a big way.
The fact the biggest and 'best' movies coming out of hollywood are comic book superhero bland cgi fests says it all really.
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Some people see monster trucks and NASCAR as art, too.
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I don't, but they're not bland either.
Re: What a shithole country! (Score:2)
I wouldn't know. I don't eat trucks, too metallic. I know some guys do.
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Well, they certainly look spicy, with all those flames and spiky bits.
Re:What a shithole country! (Score:4, Interesting)
comic book superhero bland cgi fests
Comic book, superhero and cgi, yes. But bland? Not really.
Bland? Yes. There are no stakes, no threat of anything actually changing. So half the people died in endgame, pretty fucking ballsy move on their part but how many of those are coming back? Marvels problem is they refuse to let anyone actually die and there's never any real possibility of the good guys actually losing unless it's to set up a bigger win later on.
Unless you mean visually in which case they are quite impressive but there are only so many times you can watch cgi army a fight cgi army b before it gets boring.
Re:What a shithole country! (Score:4, Interesting)
I've come to the conclusion that Iron Man and Captain America have reached the end of their arc and are getting in the way of new characters. I expected them both to die in Infinity War. That they didn't but everybody else did (including Spiderman and Black Panther, most notably) was clear evidence that all those deaths will be reversed, but I still think Iron Man and Captain American will be sacrificing their lives to make it happen.
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Who gets to decide whether "something bad" happened ?
Re:What a shithole country! (Score:5, Funny)
A whole new government department! Will need about twice as many employees as all those laid off...
That's usually how it works.
There are alternatives (Score:5, Interesting)
Like Roosevelt did, create a new CCC, or you could use community service sentences to do the work.
If there are arrests for trespassing... sentence them to work in the parks.
Re:There are alternatives (Score:5, Insightful)
Or you know, don't hold the running of the government hostage for a hair brained scheme that literally won't do anything positive for the country.
Ask for that money to fix actual existing failing infrastructure. I heard Flint still doesn't have access to clean water locally.
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Or you know, don't hold the running of the government hostage for a hair brained scheme that literally won't do anything positive for the country.
You should tell Israel, Hungary, Austria, and Greece how well those things don't work for their countries. Oh France too.
Ask for that money to fix actual existing failing infrastructure.
You should be asking states why they're not dealing with those problems. They ARE state problems after all.
I heard Flint still doesn't have access to clean water locally.
Funny story about that, why not go look it up. I'll wait for you to read up about how the city decided to fuck things around, and why there's multiple corruption trials going on.
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Last I heard, any wall built by the French was an abject failure.
The issue here is Trump does not have an electoral mandate for a wall paid for by the USA. He was quite clear that Mexico was going to pay for it.
Re:Border fencing is infrastructure (Score:5, Interesting)
Well a lot of the existing border fencing does need repairs/upgrades so it would be an infrastructure project.
And the Dems are offering $1.5 billion for upgrades to border security and infrastructure. But Trump has to have his Great Wall of Trump. All this shut down is going to do is cost us more money. All the people who worked during the shutdown will still get paid. All the people who didn't work over the shutdown will get paid (there's no way Congress will let hundreds of thousands of government workers go a month without pay). And then we will have to pay for the overtime for every department to clear weeks worth of backlogs.
Re:Border fencing is infrastructure (Score:5, Interesting)
Over the past decade, Democrats have supported billions of dollars in funding for physical barriers. In 2006, the Secure Fence Act passed with bipartisan support requiring the construction of physical barriers along 700 miles of the nearly 2,000-mile U.S.-Mexico border. Sixty-four Democrats voted the measure in the House and 26 in the Senate.
The current Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer voted for it, so did Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden. Then-Illinois Sen. Barack Obama praised the bill in a floor speech saying it would "certainly do some good" and "help stem some of the tide of illegal immigration in this country."
In 2013, all Senate Democrats and most House Democrats backed comprehensive immigration reform legislation, the so-called Gang of Eight bill. It included $46 billion for border security and around $8 billion to repair or reinforce barriers along the 700 miles of the border as required under the Secure Fence Act.
Re:Border fencing is infrastructure (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Border fencing is infrastructure (Score:4, Insightful)
But Trump was very clear on numerous occasions that Mexico was going to pay for the wall. Consequently he has no electoral mandate for getting USA tax payers to pay for the wall. Heck at the last set of elections he lost control of the House so one could argue legitimately there is an electoral mandate to oppose him trying to get USA tax payers to pay for the wall. a break from his election promise of 2016.
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Much as I hate Trump, this quote was never meant literally.
He didn't intend for the budget of the Wall to be paid for by Mexico. He intended the budget to be matched by trade gains. Mexico paying for the wall means the US gains enough money on trade that the wall is figuratively paid-for.
Of course that trade increase is also complete hyperbole with no backing in reality or even economic theory. The wall would be funded by US taxpayers, to no one's surprise. But no one should truly believe Trump expected Mex
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Over the past decade, Democrats have supported billions of dollars in funding for physical barriers. In 2006, the Secure Fence Act passed with bipartisan support requiring the construction of physical barriers along 700 miles of the nearly 2,000-mile U.S.-Mexico border. Sixty-four Democrats voted the measure in the House and 26 in the Senate.
The current Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer voted for it, so did Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden. Then-Illinois Sen. Barack Obama praised the bill in a floor speech saying it would "certainly do some good" and "help stem some of the tide of illegal immigration in this country."
In 2013, all Senate Democrats and most House Democrats backed comprehensive immigration reform legislation, the so-called Gang of Eight bill. It included $46 billion for border security and around $8 billion to repair or reinforce barriers along the 700 miles of the border as required under the Secure Fence Act.
Yes, and if $46 billion couldn't do it, Trump's wasteful $5.6 billion boondoggle won't do anything but inflate his ego. We're lucky he didn't want it big enough that his Space Force could see it.
Re:Border fencing is infrastructure (Score:4, Interesting)
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these people learn the guards habits and litterly run in behind them.
Should be easy to catch them then, just follow the trail of trash. The money the Dems are offering isn't just for more guards, it's to repair/upgrade infrastructure as well. That means repaired existing fencing, more cameras, etc.
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Massive? I'm not sure that's the word I would pick myself.
Total number of illegal border crossings in the us is about 500,000 per year. With roughly 365 days in a year that's about 1400 people per day. Only about half of the illegal border crossings are at the southern border though so we're looking at 700 entries per day.
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You know it's funny. When Obama was president every one of these Democratic party leaders in congress and the senate voted for border security measures which included a wall. Hundreds of miles of wall and fencing was built and maintained by agencies of the Obama administration and nobody called it immoral. No one was against it.
Now all of a sudden becasue it would be a win for Trump and the Republicans they're against a wall. Meanwhile a border crisis is happening and rather than commit funds to deal with i
Re:Border fencing is infrastructure (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe that's because they perceived this as a sufficient and adequate response. Maybe the ROI on continuing to invest in walls and fencing has reached the point of ridiculousness. Maybe America doesn't actually have an immigration crisis, and justifying continued investment in fencing to filter out hypothetical Mexican rapists is an immoral act of unfounded prejudice.
Your entire model of hypocrisy leaves out of the possibility that the previous response was a proportional response, and the proposed response is a disproportionate response. There's no two ways about this: Americans want to buy Californian fruit at a price you can only have if the fruit is picked by undocumented immigrants, without actually having the immigrants.
So you disparage the immigrants so that they have no rights whatsoever in the country where the work and reside, until you've got a de facto caste society.
Once upon a time, India did not have a caste society as rigid as the one they have now. But for some reason, there caste system solidified. Was it the people on the bottom who wanted to become permanently consigned to an underclass? Or was it the people at the top, who wanted something akin to slavery (all the benefits, few of the costs) without turning people into actual property (which is problematic, and always has been).
America's Deep South has never quite forgotten the wonderful heroine hit of being a gentrified ruling class, where you can sit in your drawing rooms and perfect your manners (and mannerisms), while some other group of people is baking in the hot sun for long hours doing the scut work. Gosh, what if you could have that without slavery? What if you could hem and howl until the immigrants had a status below dirt, and do everything conceivable to pretend to stop this, while actually still providing the immigrants with all the same work opportunities? (All the better to sate one's enormous appetite on cheap, local fruit.)
The wall then becomes a permanent monument to the notion, "well, we did what we could" and the immigrants are still showing up to do the same nasty jobs as the same low, low wages (with few benefits), well that just proves that they're lowly and incorrigible and deserve what they get.
Voila: caste system. All of the benefits, few of the costs.
I'll gladly believe otherwise once there's a vigorous enforcement effort to arrest businessmen who routinely look the other way over worker documentation (with the prospect of serious jail time for repeat offenses). Rounding up the first 1000 would be like gathering windblown apples off the ground. That would slow undocumented immigration down to a trickle at way less cost than Trump's giant monument to caste-society lust.
Problem: a sudden wave of orchard bankruptcies among hard-working, tax-paying Californian orchard owners (mostly white) would shine a harsh spotlight in the evening news cycle for many months on the actual hypocrisy here. We wants them in one way (cheap prices), but we don't wants them in the other way (affording them dignity and civil rights).
A hugely expensive wall (that still won't actually work) is just a giant branding exercise in justifying this extremely un-American division between labour and civil rights. This is not so different from the extremely un-American division between taxation and representation that once lead to a giant tea party.
But times change, and tea party rebrand themselves. Now we're more like the British society from which we once sought refuge, than we are like our forefathers (and foremothers) who bravely endured the back-breaking labour of setting up shop in a giant land of opportunity, theirs for the taking.
People are doing that already (Score:2)
Volunteers in Joshua Tree are collecting trash from the parks, and I assume in other places too.
No reason much of the janitorial aspect of the parks could not be covered by a gofundme that would cover hiring a real janitorial company, plenty of people would be willing to pay.
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Much of the damage is from illegal pot grows,
Uh....what? Look, California and Oregon had a lot of illegal grows in the wilderness many years causing diesel damange to water.... But it hasn't been a problem in national parks ever. There is a big difference between BLM land, state forests, national forests........and national parks.
Who would try to grow weed in Yosemite?? that's just asking for trouble. There's so much empty (and more accessible) places nearby where people actually live and grow it.........
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Because convict slave labor isn't already a thing.
Ironic that the cleanup will most likely be done by convict labor that is by and large young urban poor black.
These are not the crowds that are abusing the national parks because there is no oversight. The ones doing it are running around in their redneck crap mobile bush whackers. Just wonder how many redneck junk mobiles are getting stuck and left to rot off road. In British Columbia Canada the numbers of redneck mobiles left out in the bush on crown land is astonishing these days, so the poison from the
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"These are not the crowds that are abusing the national parks because there is no oversight. The ones doing it are running around in their redneck crap mobile bush whackers."
Riiiiggghhhhttt... because it is people from the country who primarily vacation by visiting federal parks... you know, instead of their alternative of going outside or camping on their friends private land 20 minutes away. People from the country just love to camp at national parks with their fake campsites and other people less than 20
It figures, Oh my God, Closed Government (Score:3)
The National Parks have not be fully staffed for 14 days with more coming. The damage will last for generations!
from the article
Lamfrom says the full scale of the problem is yet to be determined but clean up timelines will range in length. "Some [efforts] will take weeks or months. Some will last generations. Some may not be able to be fixed."
Just my 2 cents
Re:It figures, Oh my God, Closed Government (Score:4, Insightful)
Lamfrom says the full scale of the problem is yet to be determined but clean up timelines will range in length.
If we can't afford to authorize funding for a border wall for basic security, then how the hell can we afford to authorize funding for a multi-generational cleanup?
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Your first mistake is assuming the wall is about basic security.
What on earth do you think "basic security" means in the context of physical security? I know what the industry would say it means.
Basic security is achieved when you have these elements at a basic level:
1. Establishment of Security Boundaries and Access Control: You define the area to which access is to be protected. You put systems in place to divert or steer the movement of vehicles, people, etc, so that those wan
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Then the Democrats back out of the $25billion plan when a court case went their way and they thought they might get the Dreamer end of the package without having to agree to the fence.
Re:It figures, Oh my God, Closed Government (Score:5, Informative)
Because previously the parks locked the gates during shutdowns. They left them open to avoid the bad image of locked gates, this is the side effect of that stupid decision.
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In 1895/96 and in 2013, both sides were bargaining (more-or-less) in good faith to find a way to end the shutdown. Here in 2018/19, there is no bargaining - one party has announced he won't settle for anything less than getting his way and is willing to extend the shutdown indefinitely in order to get it.
Not all the parks... (Score:5, Informative)
The historic tower in the Trump International Hotel in Washington DC is a national landmark. It's under the control of the park service. There are still National Park Rangers there keeping the tower open. Total coincidence they found money to do that, based no doubt on a dispassionate assessment of needs.
humans (Score:5, Insightful)
makes me sad that a great piece of nature can't stay clean for a few days unless there are paid people who clean up after the visitors - the real trash are the humans leaving their trash behind.
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Re:humans (Score:4, Informative)
Re:humans (Score:5, Interesting)
makes me sad that a great piece of nature can't stay clean for a few days unless there are paid people who clean up after the visitors - the real trash are the humans leaving their trash behind.
If you see the examples in TFA about the National Mall, it's not that people are trash for leaving trash behind, it's that the dedicated bins to leave said trash are actually being used as expected by normal decent people, but are not being emptied and thus are overflowing with garbage.
Yeah there's some grubs out there, but in this case the people attempting to do the right thing are unable to do it.
Re:humans (Score:5, Interesting)
makes me sad that a great piece of nature can't stay clean for a few days unless there are paid people who clean up after the visitors - the real trash are the humans leaving their trash behind.
If you see the examples in TFA about the National Mall, it's not that people are trash for leaving trash behind, it's that the dedicated bins to leave said trash are actually being used as expected by normal decent people, but are not being emptied and thus are overflowing with garbage.
Yeah there's some grubs out there, but in this case the people attempting to do the right thing are unable to do it.
It's already being cleaned up voluntarily:Libertarians step in to clean up Washington during government shutdown [newsgrowl.com]
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If you see the examples in TFA about the National Mall, it's not that people are trash for leaving trash behind, it's that the dedicated bins to leave said trash are actually being used as expected by normal decent people, but are not being emptied and thus are overflowing with garbage.
In a mall, you're buying stuff, and then you're acquiring additional trash which you have to dispose of. In a park, you're bringing trash with you, and it's more reasonable to take it with you as well.
Expect a shift in funding (Score:3, Interesting)
The units of the NPS, the Smithsonian, and other cultural institutions simply will not continue to tolerate shutdown after shutdown. Many of them already have private foundations which assist their operations, and because they're so under-funded by the gov't to begin with (e.g., Smithsonian is the only Federal agency actually allowed to fund-raise because of their pathetic level of funding) and with the gov't continually using them as a political football, it's not a stretch for them all to go fully public-private and just opt out of the whole broken system. For example, Gettysburg National Military Park has done this for years now, and while their NPS staff have indeed been furloughed, the Visitors Center and battlefield are both open during this current shutdown, paid for by the Gettysburg Foundation. Some foundations at other NPS units are actually paying ranger salaries so they can keep working.
Oh yeah, and it's time for Smithsonian to start charging an entry fee. Discount / waive it for the poor if you wish, but well-off and middle-class visitors can and should pay *something*. Even our friends in Europe charge admission fees to their museums.
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The Smithsonian was founded as a bequest to the United States by James Smithson a private British citizen. The United States government then promptly took that bequest (equivalent to $11 million dollars) and p*ssed it away.
Luckily ex-President John Quincy Adams persuaded Congress to restore the money.
So what have we learned here? The Smithsonian was never suppose to be a thing paid for by the U.S. government. In the past, as now, the best way to screw something up is to give money to the federal government
Turn national park management over to the states (Score:2)
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It's Oklahoma. One empty flat boring 'park' is plenty. Nobody goes to Oklahoma for vacation, the people that live there just stopped wherever their wagon broke. Still have the broken wheel by the drive to mark the location.
Re:Turn national park management over to the state (Score:4, Informative)
Sorry, but border security is more important (Score:2, Funny)
I'm sorry that people can't ride their bikes, hike and camp right now.
Maybe, with some of the money we recoup by tackling illegal immigration, we can rectify some of that.
But border security has been one of these everpresent "talking points" for DECADES now.
They pull it out and hammer on it during elections.
But the second elections are over, they pack it away, to use during the next election.
And this is both sides of the aisle.
And people are sick of it.
The issue needs to be put to bed.
NOW.
If there is collat
Re:Sorry, but border security is more important (Score:5, Interesting)
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I'm not sick of it. I want more immigration. I have friends that are here illegally, and they contribute a lot socially and economically.
Re:Sorry, but border security is more important (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Sorry, but border security is more important (Score:5, Interesting)
The conservative Cato Institute published a response [cato.org] to that FAIR report.
Key quote:
Propoganda (Score:3)
Diane Regas according to Forbes:
"I am Executive Director of Environmental Defense Fund, where I direct our strategic plan and mission to address to global climate change and natural resource challenges. I am passionate about increasing shared prosperity and stewardship both domestically and internationally, while also developing scientifically and economically sound solutions. I spent five years at EDF managing the Oceans Program advocating for reforms and programs that help fisherman while also rebounding fisheries in the U.S., Mexico and Europe. I’ve also worked closely on our climate and energy projects, identifying new ways to open markets to clean energy financing. Before joining EDF, I spent 20 years developing and supporting scientifically sound bipartisan solutions to environmental challenges at the Environmental Protection Agency."
In other words, despite the last sentence there this undeniably a partisan political drive.
Really, common sense should tell you that nothing of much significance happens in the span of a couple weeks, especially when park rangers and security are still there. Most of this staff didn't even exist pre-Clinton and many state and private parks are serviced by fewer staff and less frequently on an ongoing basis while remaining great resources.
It's been a long running story (Score:4, Interesting)
Since the National Park service changed their policies since 2013's shut down, they've been tracked pretty heavily throughout the news cycle. It's one of the bigger and more understandable parts of the shutdown facing the public, especially during the holidays.
They've covered the parks staying open, the lack of maintenance, volunteers cleaning Joshua Tree, Joshua Tree getting overwhelmed and shut down, Yellowstone's access roads closing (although not technically the park) because of snow, the deaths that have occurred in the various National Parks, etc.
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As far as the trash issues, that is just people being fucking assholes
That is true for 98% of the earth's most urgent issues including the problems caused by Trump and the issues that made him a voting option for a majority.
Re:It's been a long running story (Score:5, Interesting)
Most of the national parks used to be free. There are tollgates now and they do charge except right now during the shutdown because there is nobody to collect the tolls. OOTH I am not at all sure why they don't leave the honor boxes used at lots of less popular locations open. My guess is a lot of patrons would happy continue to pay.
That said I don't agree with a lot of what the Park Service and the USFS do with our parks and public lands. The USFS still does all kinds of agricultural experiments in places that are supposed to be public land. Frankly commercial enterprise should be paying for that and doing it on already private property. Same thing with a lot of our parks. Most (not all) have dual purpose to act both as wilderness preserves and as recreational spaces for people. The thing is large unbroken areas of back country and critical to life cycles of lots of the creatures we are trying to protect. This is incompatible with paved auto trails, and large campsites. Its also not fair I don't think to other Americans to ask them subsides the businesses around these parks.
I was reading an article about how snowmobiles in the western parks and how private enterprise is keeping the trails groomed. That's fine, but why is the Park Service nominally maintaining snowmobile trains anyway? Again I get there has to be some push pull to accommodate the dual use mandate but honestly, the Park Service should probably identify some lower impact areas for things like powered vehicle trails and tell the business look these areas its okay to clear some trails thru if you want to do so and maintain them at your cost. Sell permits (at administrative cost if you want to) just so that we can attach a number to operators and hold them accountable for keeping to the permitted areas and enforce other likely needed restrictions. But but but.. "Bobby's Snow Tours" isnt going to do the work when "Wild Bills Tours" can just sponge off his efforts. BS - I say. Firstly the shutdown is proving that isn't true, and second Bobby still gets to profit of what is public land so I don't feel to sorry for him.
Beyond this I would say the park service ought to engage in the minimal expense of putting in wilderness trails for individuals and (non-commercial) small groups to use for hiking/backpacking because putting in trails and asking even those low impact users to stay on them reduces total impact. It also make search and rescue somewhat possible where as if you just turn people loose in a few million acres good luck finding anyone and good luck with any sort of extraction if that is required. Otherwise they should really let nature have run of the parks, and that includes wildfires (provided we believe they were sparked by natural causes).
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Personally I don't care, I don't work for the gov't and I don't visit state parks.
Saving a bit of money might be just the thing after the billionaire tax breaks and $12B farmer bailout.
Re:Slow News Day Huh? (Score:4, Interesting)
But it won't save any money. It will lose the federal government money when it needs to start up everything again. There is also the tax on the rest of the economy due to not being able to access the government services they need, such as the courts. And that doesn't count the gov. employees not getting paid but having to work regardless, and the gov. employees simply not getting paid. If they are living paycheck to paycheck, they are SOL. Then there are the government contractors. Ever since Reagan, the Fed. Gov. was forced to contract out for some of its functions to the private sector. Those contractors are not getting paid. So their businesses get a hidden tax due to the disruption.
The last gov. shutdown cost the federal government $20 Billion. All become some dolt from Texas (Ted Cruz) got up one morning and decided to be even stupider than normal for him.
Re: Oh No! Oh No! Oh No! (Score:4, Funny)
Unstaffed national parks are great. I brought a chainsaw and now I have the makings of a dozen giant redwood tables. It would have cost more than my house to buy them from a legit wood shop.
Thanks to Trump, national parks are free of job killing regulations being enforced by the fascist fat car park rangers. I'll go out this week and get a giant slab of oak with the flatbed too.
Fun for the kids too, they can use the four wheelers and carve donuts on the worthless alpine prairie moss instead of gunking up the engine like when they do it on the dunes.
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Trump asks for $5billion to waste on a stupid wall he promised we wouldn't have to pay for.
"oMg TeH LiBtaRdS aRe dEmANdiNg mOrE $$$$$ frOM Urrr pOkkITS!!!"
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Re:Oh No! Oh No! Oh No! (Score:4, Interesting)
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I vist a lot of National Parks throughut the year, and most the time I don't see a soul. No employees, no visitors.
Doesn't mean they're not there. Do you see people building the roads when you go? They still got built and maintained didn't they.
Re:Pretty easy fix: (Score:5, Insightful)
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[reddit.com]https://www.reddit.com/r/Polit... [reddit.com]
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And Obama said that under Obamacare you could keep your doctor.
And Obamacare was patterned after the healthcare legislation signed into law in Massachusetts by that perennial liberal Mitt Romney.
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FACT — the reason why Americans have to worry about a government shutdown is because Obama refuses to pass a budget.
—Donald J. Trump, 9 Aug 2013, 11:33 AM [twitter.com]
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It doesn't make sense to waste tens of billions of dollars on the wall when the alternative is a shutdown that harms your opponent far more than you.
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Re:Who cares (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, but we're not talking about Washington D.C., we're talking about national parks.
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+1 Funny,
+1 Insightful.
+1 Informative.
+1 Underrated.
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When someone breaks into your house to throw a squatter party, is your house left unattended or filled with trespassers? Idiot.
Re:Cry me a river (Score:5, Insightful)
So let me get this straight... you're miffed that people didn't take YOUR feelings into account while you don't care for the feelings of others on this matter whom you'd be disturbing.
Yeah, I have a hard time feeling sorry for you.
Re: Cry me a river (Score:2, Funny)
You want to be left alone. I want to murder you.
Let's compromise in the middle, you can kill yourself. This way you don't get bothered by me, and I still get to have you dead.
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Drones can scare off birds, which would piss off OTHER photographers going to the park for bird-watching purposes. An inability to think up interesting shots has more to do with a lack of artistic vision than a lack of options.
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I could give two shits and a fuck about walking around and enjoying "nature"
If you could give a shit then why aren't you in support of the ban? I on the other hand could not give a shit about your noisy irritating photography hobby.
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I probably would.
You probably would, too.
But if you would, wouldn't you be pissed too, that you had to do what you already paid your government to do?
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If you care about the environment and live nearby wouldn't you step up as a citizen and volunteer to spend some time fixing the problem?
Yeah, every civic minded citizen should spend a couple hours a week sweeping the forest floor, maybe even dust some trees do. That's what they do in Finland, right? No forest fires there.
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Sell the parks and lower government responsibility.
To who? Who is going to buy all these parks and maintain them when there's no way at all enough people would come and pay enough to make that a profitable business. Or just chop them all down and sell the wood? Yeah, see how well that goes.
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Sell the parks and lower government responsibility.
To who? Who is going to buy all these parks and maintain them when there's no way at all enough people would come and pay enough to make that a profitable business. Or just chop them all down and sell the wood? Yeah, see how well that goes.
Zinke had quite a few people lined up before he ran off to avoid investigations (which may still happen anyway). Of course, the new owners didn't plan on keeping them open as national parks, they want the lumber/mineral rights, etc.
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