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Can You Really Sue Fortnite For 'Stealing' Your Dance Moves? (theguardian.com) 141

Posted by msmash from the interesting-question dept.
The creator of the year's biggest game is facing a slew of lawsuits over its alleged use of famous dance moves. But will courts tap to the same tune? From a report: Fresh Prince of Bel-Air star Alfonso Ribeiro alleges that Fornite used his Carlton Dance, devised for a memorable episode of the hit US sitcom, without permission or credit. And earlier this week, Russell Horning, AKA the Backpack Kid, launched his own lawsuit claiming Epic breached copyright laws for including his signature dance move "The Floss." So while the copyright disco fills up and solicitors perform their (wallet) stretching exercises, the big question is: can you realistically copyright a dance move? The answer is yes. Kind of. It's complicated.

"A dance can be protected under copyright law in England under the protection afforded to literary, dramatic or musical works (section 3 (2) of the Copyright, Design and Patents Act)," says Alex Tutty of specialist entertainment law firm Sheridans. "But copyright can subsist in it only when it is recorded in writing or otherwise. It doesn't just exist because you did the dance; it needs to be written down or filmed" This is handy for the Fortnite complainants, because there is video evidence of all of them performing their respective moves. However, it's not quite that easy. "There are all kinds of complexities in practice," says entertainment and tech industry lawyer, Jas Purewal of Purewal & Partners. "For example, who owns the dance -- the original creator, the dancers or the choreographer? How can they prove they actually created something new? How can they show that someone else actually infringed their dance and didn't independently come up with it? The law is pretty archaic, too. It's just not been an area that has had a lot of attention."
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Can You Really Sue Fortnite For 'Stealing' Your Dance Moves? More

Can You Really Sue Fortnite For 'Stealing' Your Dance Moves?

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  • Who reads the headline of a post?

    • Nothing but losers in this story. Including the editor. And, I suppose, those of us wasting our time reading it.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Desler ( 1608317 )

      No one. The Slashdot editors are illiterate.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by msmash ( 4491995 ) Works for Slashdot
      Sorry about the typo in the headline. I deeply regret it.

      • "You keep using this word steal. It doesn't mean what you think it means."

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by rtb61 ( 674572 )

          For the rest of us normies, you are correct, that is not what stealing means, for the raging nariccists in that industry, people call everything stealing, your stole my move, you stole my line, you stole my joke, you stole my look basically you stole my bullshit. This becomes extremely apprantly when those claiming theft careers start to fail and people become bored by the bullshit antics and the active marketing associated with those antics.

          If it is a signature move, that is associated with a person, basi

      • No one is perfect. Besides slashdotters secretly love it when the editors make mistakes.
      • Don't feel bad; you [clearly] did the best you could.
      • You've only committed today's editorial error, the latest in a list so long that nobody here is likely to have the patience to even attempt to estimate its length. Just let someone else make the next error and this will be forgotten soon enough.

  • I don't know, can you do the due?

  • Can You Really Due Fortnite For 'Stealing' Your Dance Moves?

    I'm pretty sure if we had a competent editor here this would have said "Sue Fortnite" instead. Granted this isn't as bad as some other "editor" fuck-ups but this is pretty awful being as it's in the damned headline.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by arth1 ( 260657 )

      Even worse, it was now changed without adding a note about the change. Doing so would have had you thrown out of any respectable publishing business back before Murdoch.

      And Slashdot of all places defends that you cannot edit posts (for many good reasons). But that's worthless if silent editing happens, no matter what the reason or how severe. If it is done once, it can be done other times.

      • Even worse, it was now changed without adding a note about the change. Doing so would have had you thrown out of any respectable publishing business back before Murdoch.

        Considering the conservative cesspool echo chamber that slashdot has become over the past decade or so, we should probably just be happy that this headline doesn't lead to a Murdoch-endorsed "news source". Integrity went out of fashion around here long ago.

    • Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)

      by 110010001000 ( 697113 )
      It says SUE. You guys need to get your eyes checked.

      • It says SUE. You guys need to get your eyes checked.

        You're late to the party, here. When slashdot initially posted this article the headline read DUE. The editor - who should be ashamed of making such a monumentally stupid mistake - subsequently changed it to SUE without having the decency to admit the fuck-up.

  • This is pretty sad

  • Might want to correct that title. I believe you meant something else.

    • Might want to correct that title. I believe you meant something else.

      Hell, it passed spell check. What more do they need? Pass the cheetohs already, the editor is getting the munchies.

  • No, you can't, because due is not a transitive verb.

  • Obviously you can, because he did.

  • Well, why not?

    You can sue someone for singing the same bit of doggerel that you did, or for drawing the same cartoon mouse that you did.

    Why not for doing the same dance moves?

  • Well being that 'Fornite' is a service... (Score:3)

    by Noishkel ( 3464121 ) on Friday December 21, 2018 @02:07PM (#57842808)
    No, I don't think you can due the service itself. Now if you tried to sue Epic Games... well still probably no, but there might be a at least a chance under patent law. Don't forget, someone was awarded a patent for playing with your cat with a laser pointer. See 'US5443036A - Method of exercising a cat'. Now under patent law you can do these activities on your own without fear of being sued, but given that Epic is making money by including these dances in the game the plaintive might have a case. But it's going to be slim if at all.

  • The framing of this in the media and everywhere I read about it is very interesting to me. Everyone wants to talk about it like its a copyright issue when I don't believe it is.

    Epic Games stole a PERFORMANCE, not a DANCE. what i mean by this is for many of the dance moves in Fortnite, you can clearly tell that the moves were motion captured from source material. All Epic had to do is hire a performer to dance the dance then motion cap that, and keep evidence that that is what they did. but they didn't do th

  • Due Fortnite?
    Proofread your posts @msmash

  • You can, but can you win... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Friday December 21, 2018 @02:13PM (#57842858)

    I find it highly unlikely there are any dance moves in existence that are unique, it seems like you could always find "prior form" as it were.

    The Carlton Dance it turns out, was after all stolen from Courtney Cox & Eddie Murphy [tmz.com] - and I'm sure they saw it somewhere.

    P.S. If someone ends up linking to TMZ on Slashdot for relevant information, maybe that's a good indicator the story was not a good fit for the site...

    • P.S. If someone ends up linking to TMZ on Slashdot for relevant information, maybe that's a good indicator the story was not a good fit for the site...

      Normally I would agree, but video games and intellectual property are pretty much staples around here.

    • And the result is a unique creation.

      Most things that are patented or copyrighted are a combination of inspiration and uniqueness.

      So no, that won't do anything to change the argument of his lawsuit.

    • Did you just use a trashy tabloid as a news source, and one that specialises in garbage celebrity stories as a source?

      Honestly I think we'd all be better off and more likely to agree with your comment if you just appealed to authority and didn't back up your statement at all.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Joviex ( 976416 )

      stolen from Courtney Cox & Eddie Murphy - and I'm sure they saw it somewhere.

      P.S. If someone ends up linking to TMZ on Slashdot for relevant information, maybe that's a good indicator the story was not a good fit for the site...

      He says "steal" its not stolen. Neither CC nor EM made the same dance he did. He synthesized their moves plus his own into something new, trans formative.

      Just because he chose a poor phrasing of what he did, doesn't make it theft -- unless you are obtuse to reality.

  • I get dance routines being copyrighted but things like the floss are basically only like 4 similar movements being repeated. Is that enough to copyright? Not only that but it's not even another human performing the dance. They made a digital character perform the dance which is essentially a bunch of drawings on a computer screen tied together to appear like movement. In that case isn't a drawing of something materially different from performing a dance move? Can anyone think of any cases where artwork of a

  • Intent matters (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Gavrielkay ( 1819320 ) on Friday December 21, 2018 @02:18PM (#57842882)
    I feel like intent matters. The gaming company wanted to pimp their product using pop culture references that they expected people would recognize and feel positively about. This isn't some kid in a restaurant who happens to end up on YouTube performing the move for his friends. Epic tried to add value to their product by stealing the work of others. It's pretty much what copyright, performance and intellectual properly laws were written for.

    • Re:Intent matters (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Comrade Ogilvy ( 1719488 ) on Friday December 21, 2018 @02:49PM (#57843022)

      If it were a significant piece of choreography with a large chunk nearly directly copied, I would agree.

      Fair use protects commercial intent, too. Just like a paid comedian can ape a sentence or two from any source and earn a paycheck for it, I would say a video game can "borrow" a move or two.

      Eroding fair use is lethal to art works. It is already true that small budget documentarians have to bend over backwards to not accidentally have, say, Madonna music on the telly in the apartment be too noticeable, for fear of an easily won but too expensive to defend lawsuit.

      Maybe you and I do not care about a big name game studio. But this cudgel will hammer the little guy a million time over, I can promise you.

      • I think there is a difference between use of the original content for satire or documentary and this case. I am in favor of limiting companies' ability to digitize us for profit. What will be more interesting to me is if Alfonso even has legal standing to sue. If the move was a work for hire or given to him by choreographers attached to the show, they would be the ones who'd have to bring suit I would think.

    • I feel like intent matters. The gaming company wanted to pimp their product using pop culture references that they expected people would recognize and feel positively about. This isn't some kid in a restaurant who happens to end up on YouTube performing the move for his friends. Epic tried to add value to their product by stealing the work of others. It's pretty much what copyright, performance and intellectual properly laws were written for.

      That's a distinction without a difference. The person who uploaded the video of the kid performing for his or her friends may very well be motivated by money.

      And who cares since it's a simple fad dance [wikipedia.org] and not some complicated choreography. It's bananas to think that should be subject to copyright.

  • Copying Kamasutra from millenials. (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Can the Porn Acts be affected?

  • Wrong Person Suing (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    I doubt Alfonso Ribeiro is the owner of that dance. I'm sure it is owned whatever company owns the rights to The Fresh Prince of Bel Air show.

  • 1) Fortnite literally named the dances after who they stole em from ("Fresh" referencing "Fresh Prince"!?)
    2) Nobody gave two shits about all the dances World of Warcraft stole and put into that game. To those paying attention, it was just an extension of meme culture. "Tunak Tunak Tun? AWESOME!!"

  • https://wiki.teamfortress.com/... [teamfortress.com]

    This has been a thing since 2016.

  • Not applicable. (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    How is copyright law in England applicable? This is a US company being sued by US citizens in US court.

    Why not look at US copyright law pertaining to dance moves?
    https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ52.pdf

  • You can sue anyone for anything, just like you can ask for anything. Can you send me a million dollars? I could sue you for using a microwave transmitter to control my brain, forcing me to wear a tinfoil hat, with loss of income as nobody will hire me and emotional trauma. I could sue no problem. On the other hand none of us would expect me to win the lawsuit.

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