Justice Department Charges Russian Woman With Interference in Midterm Elections (washingtonpost.com) 261
The Justice Department on Friday charged a Russian woman for her role in a conspiracy to interfere with the 2018 U.S. election, marking the first criminal case prosecutors have brought against a foreign national for interfering in the upcoming midterms. From a report: Elena Khusyaynova, 44, was charged with conspiracy to defraud the United States. Prosecutors said she managed the finances of "Project Lakhta," a foreign influence operation they said was designed "to sow discord in the U.S. political system" by pushing arguments and misinformation online about a whole host of divisive political issues, including immigration, the Confederate flag, gun control, and the NFL national anthem protests. The charges against Khusyaynova came just as the Office of the Director of National Intelligence warned that it was concerned about "ongoing campaigns" by Russia, China and Iran to interfere with the upcoming Midterm elections and even the 2020 race -- an ominous warning that comes just weeks before voters head to the polls.
Who honestly thinks this does anything? (Score:1, Flamebait)
To me, it seems like adding argumentative content to the internet is about like pissing into the ocean.
There is no way I can possibly see how this content could be changing people's minds on iota, there is already plenty of REAL argumentation happening online 24/7. They are trying to sow discord in a field where the discord plants are already ten feet high if they are an inch - and it wasn't Russians that provided the copious fertilizer required.
Re:Who honestly thinks this does anything? (Score:4, Insightful)
It's like pissing in to an ocean of piss.
But I think it has shown that memes do affect people. Maybe the people spreading the memes already made up their minds, but maybe not.
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Re: Who honestly thinks this does anything? (Score:2)
Organized targeted campaigns backed by financial resources are going to be tangibly effective at influencing people. And I would observe that the Internet influence landscape is really not all that vaste and insurmountable as you are suggesting.
There are some obvious actors, such as the two opposition sides pretending to be the other side in order to make them look bad which are somewhat effective at being divisive.
But the foreign interference has the hallmark of pretending to be both sides fighting in ord
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They left out the charge of (Score:2)
posting a fake profile on hotrussianchicksforyou.ru /s
One person charged? Talk about the tip of a iceberg.
Russia is using our uneducated racists against us! (Score:2, Insightful)
Aside from cultivating Donald Trump to launder Russian money and repeatedly betray his country, Russia's use of uneducated racists to accomplish their political goals is their most brilliant scheme.
Just look at how eager uneducated racists are to betray America to help Moscow Donald. At this point Republicans are now polling as supportive of Russia's continuing attack on America.
We need to "Lock Him Up!" with all of his treasonous co-conspirators with his campaign manager Paul Manafort who is already in pri
Re: Russia is using our uneducated racists against (Score:2)
the most recent example is of the lady in St Louis who tried to prevent an unknown tailgater who tried to pass through a secure apartment entry - if not recognized, he should have let the door close, then buzz himself in - while she did what she was supposed to in order to protect her neighbors, the guy used it as a racial issue; the media outlets loved the race angle on this story but in my opinion didn't stop to ask if she blocks other tailgaters of other colors - she lost her job in this rush to judgemen
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What evidence and what charges? You can't because there is no evidence there is no proof. Just like your rape victims. No corroborative evidence. The Democrats are playing very childish games and its not going to win more elections.
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https://qmap.pub/ [qmap.pub] -- certainly worth investigation and consideration regardless of your conclusion...
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Fixed that for you.
In reality, the Russians target people of any political persuasion. They are trying to cause partisan divides. Now, they have been most successful with the "uneducated racist" camp, but they've been about half to one fifth as successful with a bunch of liberal groups.
And it's a pretty
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It was the "two-for" special in the GP post. Both Racist and Russian Dismissal. The only problem is, he didn't go for the trifecta. Therefore he failed in his mission. But here, I'll help him, by simply assuming his gender. ;)
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4Chan (Score:2)
So when are they going after the rest of 4Chan?
So when is the execution? (Score:2)
What, too early?
Just use mail-in paper ballots like real states do, and register everyone everyday whenever they apply for any license of any type at a county or state office.
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Just use mail-in paper ballots like real states do, and register everyone everyday whenever they apply for any license of any type at a county or state office.
Yeah! That'll solve the problem of Russian misinformation trying to sway the voters, it sure will! I don't know how, but if WillAffleckUW says it will, then it must be true.
Oh, wait, I missed the patent insult about "real states" using mail-in ballots. I know of a few that throw ballots out to the four winds so anyone can get their hands on one, but I also know a lot of states -- real states -- do not.
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Oh, wait, I missed the patent insult about "real states" using mail-in ballots. I know of a few that throw ballots out to the four winds so anyone can get their hands on one, but I also know a lot of states -- real states -- do not.
Our state has nine winds. I feel sorry for yours, with only four. It must be flat where you live.
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Re: Russian illegal activities require hard action (Score:2)
We smell your fear. It's all you have.
Let the people vote. Not the Russians.
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Let the people vote. Not the Russians.
Handing out ballots to everyone means everyone can vote, even people who shouldn't. The "Russian influence" has never been alleged Russian voting. Your proposed solution is not a solution to whatever problem there is with Russian influence.
I don't know what fear you smell. I'm not afraid to point out your mistake. Are you?
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So, what you're saying is that Russian misinformation is bad. Really bad. Prison time bad.
But American misinformation is perfectly fine?
Oddly enough, the First Amendment (you remember that one - Freedom of Speech, the Press, that sort of thing?) says absolutely nothing about "for American Citizens Only".
Nor does it mention that the
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So, what you're saying is that Russian misinformation is bad. Really bad. Prison time bad.
No, I was actually saying that by-mail voting has nothing to do with any alleged Russian influence over voters by using carefully crafted sarcasm. The part about if WillAffleckUW says it, it must be true, should have been a giveaway. Sorry.
Your entire rant about the First Amendment and stuff was wasted. And it was so pretty.
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^^^mod parent up please^^^
It grieves me to see how many fail to understand the basic notions of our Republic. The undesired critic, unwanted observer, and contrary opinion is precisely the voice the Founders knew must be protected.
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It is a government rule, therefore applies to only where the laws applies, i.e. to the American people on American lands.
If you look up the laws regarding monetary contributions to US candidates, you will find that it applies to any foreign national who attempts to donate money or provide services as contributions to a US Presidential candidate. That's why there's all the broohaahaa about them damn Ruskies allegedly giving money to Trump's campaign. It's illegal for them if they do it; it's only illegal for Trump if his campaign solicited the contributions. I.e., them damn Ruskies can't scuttle the next Presidential campaign
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Where does it state that the constitution only applies to citizens?
I'm in the US later this year, you'd better fucking believe I will be relying on constitutional protections.
If they don't apply then neither do the obligations. You really want it to be legal for me to enslave Americans because I'm not bound by the constitution?
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Russian misinformation is not an issue. The day our own government is unable to inform it's own citizens more effectively than a foreign state is the day we deserve invasion and likely need it.
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The day our own government is unable to inform it's own citizens more effectively than a foreign state is the day we deserve invasion and likely need it.
This is a very scary statement. It implies a mandatory data channel under the sole control of the government to every citizen. Otherwise, the "foreign state" will just use the same data channel to speak, and the citizen will be left trying to judge the truth -- just like now.
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You know, I prefer American misinformation as much as the next guy, but the choice to be "swayed" one way or another is entirely personal.
I know that, and you know that. But apparently a lot of people do not. It would appear that posting misinformation about political things is an attempt to defraud the United States. (That usage refers to the government of the US, not "everyone in the US".)
I was pointing out that the proposed solution -- which if accepted at face value would make the majority of those political subdivisions within the US that think they are states actually not be states after all -- doesn't solve the problem it is being pro
Is she in custody? Or even in the jurisdiction? (Score:2)
Can we be clear here? (Score:1, Insightful)
"sow division"
NOT
"get trump elected".
I have meddling friends (Score:1)
A number of my non-US friends, some living in the US, some not, have been posting political commentary and promoting particular candidates and parties on Facebook. Hint: Not Republicans.
Should I report them to the DoJ?
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As long as their home country's government is not funding their efforts, they're legal.
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Why does that make a difference? A private foreign PAC would be okay?
If it registers as a PAC yes. The one in this article did not register. And you need to register to be allowed to "sow discord" in the US.
Once you register though, you are can sow as much discord as you want and people will just assume you are run of the mill Republican trying to tank the country.
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Why does that make a difference?
Because the law says so. Whether or not that should matter is fine to debate, but currently you have to tell the US government you are getting paid by a foreign government.
A private foreign PAC would be okay?
IIRC, it would not be OK directly, but that PAC could create and fund a PAC in the US to dodge it.
It is find for news organizations? (Score:1)
So she is doing the same thing CNN and NBC and all others news organizations are doing... spreading lies.
I thought the meddling had something to do with actually changing someone's vote? Granted, spreading of lies will affect Democrat voters since they will believe just about everything, Republicans are more likely to figure out when something is a lie.
Could it be this upstate New York prison cook? (Score:2)
http://orange-is-the-new-black... [wikia.com]
Rob Mueller indicts a Russian pancake (Score:1)
In other news, the special prosecutor Rob Mueller inches closer towards proving Trump's collusion with Kremlin by indicting a Russian pancake. The pancake was not available for comment. News at 11', Tonight!
QMAP.PUB (Score:1)
https://qmap.pub/ [qmap.pub] -- in case you want to know what's really going on...
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Have you looked at the so-called Russian ads? (Score:2)
I remember an article linking to some of the ads that were apparently on Facebook. I think I recall seeing maybe 2-3 of them. But what kind of surprised and shocked me - the amount of truth in the supposed Russian ads and memes as compared to typical political ads. I kept going, well...that's true. Ya, America did do that. Yup, that's mostly true to. Okay, so basically the issue is they created memes that were based on facts, and that further divided Americans. Heck, Americans are so divided, but most
RUSSIA..... (Score:2)
Apparently, the only one in America that actually gives a crap about the midterm elections.
Re:Charged with "sowing discord"??! (Score:4, Insightful)
Clearly there's a 1st Amendment issue here, but only fascists want free speech now, right?
An interesting issue, however from the article she was charged not for her speech but for managing money of an organization, which intent was to meddle with US elections.
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This seems very strange to me.
Defending the institutions of democracy seems strange to you?
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Using your right of free speech to subvert democracy is roughly equivalent to using your right to own a knife to kill somebody with it.
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This seems very strange to me.
I agree and think this is not a good direction for the USA. Political speech is very subjective. Talk radio and other news outlets are spending a great deal of money influencing the election. Why is it ok for these organizations to spend money on political issues, but I am limited with my own money unless I am rich enough to buy my own radio or tv station?
It has been all the rage to support campaign finance reform (get money out of politics!), but it has always been a bad idea because adding complex l
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though I am not one to think the constitution applies to non-citizens.
Do you really believe it is OK to torture green card holders, throw them in jail with no due process, search their homes without a warrant, deny them speech etc?
If you read the Constitution, there is a lot of talk about people, persons and such and little about citizens and what there is, is mostly about political stuff like having to be a natural citizen to be President.
Even for voting, it doesn't say anything about citizenship and denying the vote to tax paying permanent residents goes against one of the
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Money is fungible. Foreigners contribute to the candidates 'global charity fund'. Abracadabra, legal influence peddling.
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Did she personally do anything on US soil?
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If it's Americans paying her, isn't it them who should register, not her?
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But in this case isn't it the firm that has to register.
Because it doesn't seem to make sense to ask the employees to register.
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I can see that if the ones paying for the ads aren't American. But I find that's a stretch.
And that particular accusation coming from the US, who has an ongoing history of bloody foreign political manipulation, is ironic.
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Americans don't have to register to sow discord, we get to shout "freeze peach!" whenever anybody complains. As long as we do it in America.
If we go to Russia and make statements to sow discord, we should definitely be registered with the local authorities and be following their rules for foreign lobbying.
But still, regardless of who paid her, she would have to register because she is herself a foreigner. If she was an American and receiving foreign money for it, she would also have to register. So it is a
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"But still, regardless of who paid her, she would have to register because she is herself a foreigner."
Do you mean that because she's an employee of a foreign company that sells political ad campaigns to Americans she has to register herself, whether her employer already has or hasn't, if she doesn't want to get arrested when she travels to the US on other business.
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For the billionth time, if you conduct business in the US, you are conducting business in the US. It is really that simple.
Yes, if you are a foreigner and spend money in the US to influence American politics or to represent a foreign entity, then you have to be registered. No, there isn't an international quota of one registration, so no, you can't just say, "Golly, somebody else might have been registered, why me?"
Nobody cares if you're working on behalf of a foreign company. If it isn't registered in the
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Thanks, I hadn't realized she was actually running campaigns while she was here, still it's ironic considering what the US does to other countries.
And who's paying for this ...
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For the billion and 1st time, if the business you do is in the US, you did business in the US.
When you order a pizza over the telephone, you're doing business wherever you're calling from, you're also doing business wherever the pizza place is located. Very very simple.
If you're paying somebody who is in the US, for them to do activities in the US, and those activities are also illegal in the US, then you broke the law in the US.
There is nothing hard about this.
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So if I got this right, if American's bought the ads, they broke the law, the ad agency broke the law, it's employees broke the law, and everyone in the US who participated in the ads broke the law, and they're all acting as foreign agents.
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No, if Americans bought the ads, they broke the law. If the ad agency broke the law or not depends on what they knew. Same as anybody else you sweep in with "participated."
If you're acting on behalf of a foreign entity, you might be a foreign agent. Seems kinda obvious just from the words "foreign" and "agent."
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"I didn't see anything in the article saying she was in the US."
Right. I was confusing her with Maria Butina:
https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/w... [ctvnews.ca]
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Yep, you can have all the speech you want (Score:3)
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Even Paris Hilton had to disclose her approval of her political message!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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Re:Charged with "sowing discord"??! (Score:5, Insightful)
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she failed to register and then used foreign money. both are against the law.
False.
Only agents of foreign governments have to register. Whatever "project lachta" was, it has not been proved that it's a front for a government. Nor was she charged with not registering. So your assertion that this is the crime at hand is unfounded.
Spending foreign money on advocating issues (rather than advocating for any candidate) is legal. This was decided by Bluman vs FEC. Specifically, the FEC website says [fec.gov]
In a decision that was later affirmed by the Supreme Court, the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia ruled that the foreign national ban “does not restrain foreign nationals from speaking out about issues or spending money to advocate their views about issues. It restrains them only from a certain form of expressive activity closely tied to the voting process—providing money for a candidate or political party or spending money in order to expressly advocate for or against the election of a candidate.” Bluman v. FEC, 800 F. Supp. 2d 281, 290 (D.D.C. 2011), aff’d 132 S. Ct. 1087 (2012).
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Re: Charged with "sowing discord"??! (Score:1)
This isn't about free speech you fucking dope. She failed to register as a foreign agent with the DOJ.
And I'm copying and pasting this part:
"She failed to register with the DOJ as a foreign agent. she used foreign money to try and influence an election. those are both against federal law."
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She was not in the USA, dope. Is the US going to go after every foreign national that posts online comments about the US or stuff happening in the US because such comments may influence somebody in the US?
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There are laws in the US that mandate that television ads provide disclaimers on who is funding political ads. Social media and the internet should be no different. I agree that this is a free speech issue but everyone should be well informed on who is paying to have their views expressed. That would make this all go away very quickly.
Free speech not absolute. (Score:5, Informative)
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For the record, freedom of religion doesn't mean you can perform human sacrifices or polygamy and the right to bear arms doesn't include nuclear weapons.
Well, there goes my weekend plans! Got any more bad news for me?
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Freedom of speech doesn't let you incite others to do human sacrifices , or to bear nuclear arms for you either.
I know, total bummer.
The good news is that freedom of religion does allow you to pray to your god for them to sacrifice and bomb others. not that she ever listens any more. I blame the internet.
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I am fairly certain that those countries where those operatives are operating are trying to do exactly that.
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The previous post should be modded up, not down.
It's a well thought out legal opinion with no malice, designed to educate. I can't decide if the poster is correct or not because it's complex and has more depth than any other post here. It may very well be written by a legal expert. Or it may be written by a sophist posing as one.
Disclaimer: No legal opinions were presented, only personal opinions and general observations about what I believe to be the current state of formal civics in the Unites States.
I'm definitely not a legal expert. I do read scotusblog and popehat, though.
The difference between me and a sophist is that a sophist gets paid. I'm on the Socrates Plan instead; I'm just telling people they're wrong to give them a chance to say something wise, that I might hear it and learn something. Rarely happens.
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Will someone please inform this AC that it's the Trump Justice Department that brought these charges?
Re:Charged with "sowing discord"??! (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re: Charged with "sowing discord"??! (Score:2)
"Freeze Peach!"
Why do you hate Freedom? Why don't you move somewhere without free speech? Some of them are quite nice places - just don't say anything against the party line.
There are millions of immigrants who would be happy to take your place, to enjoy & defend the freedom of speech that you hold in such low regard.
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So every person in Europe that comments on Facebook or Slashdot about how the USA sucks because we still mostly honor the 2nd Amendment to our Constitution should be charged with election fraud? Somebody, somewhere paid for their internet connection so money was spent to "promote" that message. Such comments are extremely political in nature. Such comments can be expected to influence an election just as much as comments about supposed Klansmen.
Re:Charged with "sowing discord"??! (Score:5, Informative)
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Big companies like microsoft and google spend a lot of money to influence elections, much of this money has been derived from foreign sources of income and many executives of large companies are foreigners.
Re:Charged with "sowing discord"??! (Score:4, Informative)
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And the companies are American (incorporated in the US), and Citizens United is still precedent. So that's legal.
Re:Charged with "sowing discord"??! (Score:4, Funny)
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I don't think most people understand the First Amendment; it doesn't protect you from legal consequences of speech, like inciting riots, libel, obscenity, or revealing state secrets. Nor does it exempt you from laws regulating the manner and circumstances of speech; you can't shout through a bullhorn at your neighbor at 3am, even if you're shouting political slogans. And it certainly doesn't exempt you from laws regulating the behavior of foreign agents on US soil, for example by laundering foreign money
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You're assuming it's some kind of speech regulation law she's been charged under. She hasn't; she's been charged with fraud.
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She's charged under a section of USC called "Conspiracy to Commit Fraud against the United States", which SCOTUS has defined to include interfering with government functions.
Re: Charged with "sowing discord"??! (Score:2)
The first amendment protects citizens and does provide some protections to non citizens , but an agent of hostile power isn't going to be protected if they aren't genuine political actors. If an American citizen bangs on about being a fan of ISIS , well he won't be popular and the feds would be looking hard at him, but it's protected speech. But if a visitor or non citizen starts engaging in organised behavior to support ISIS, they are gonna get Gitmo'd. Obviously the lines a fine one and it's going to inv
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We deserve this for not allowing General Patton to finish the damn job.
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The only commies left are on western university campuses and caged in a theme park in Poland.
Someone like Patton could fix Berkeley.
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Yes, and why isn't it being suggested that the fact you have 'ads' for both sides it's a strong indication 'the Russians', 'Iranians' or whatever are simply foreign businesses offering their services to Americans who want to influence the elections.
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Enjoy the fruits of what your government sowed.
Ah, the irony.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/wor... [bbc.co.uk]
Russia lost 24 million people because they used their soldiers as cannon fodder. Literally.
Right now Putin is desperately trying to pretend Russia has global significance while acting like a tinpot dictator of some shitty African or South American state.
Actually, I take that back. They wouldn't pose for homoerotic calendars. Putin appears to like the boys fancying him.
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Shh...don't remind people that America has a 1st Amendment.