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Canadian Music Group Proposes 'Copyright Tax' On Internet Use (torrentfreak.com) 265

After ongoing discussions and proposals about new taxes and fees to compensate creators for "missed revenue," the Screen Composers Guild of Canada is calling for a copyright tax on all broadband data use above 15 gigabytes per month. TorrentFreak reports: A proposal from the Screen Composers Guild of Canada (SCGC), put forward during last week's Government hearings, suggests to simply add a levy on Internet use above 15 gigabytes per month. The music composers argue that this is warranted because composers miss out on public performance royalties. One of the reasons for this is that online streaming services are not paying as much as terrestrial broadcasters. The composers SCGC represents are not the big music stars. They are the people who write music for TV-shows and other broadcasts. Increasingly these are also shown on streaming services where the compensation is, apparently, much lower.

SCGC's solution to this problem is to make every Canadian pay an extra fee when they use over 15 gigabytes of data per month. This money would then be used to compensate composers and fix the so-called "value gap." As a result, all Internet users who go over the cap will have to pay more. Even those who don't watch any of the programs where the music is used. However, SCGC doesn't see the problem and believes that 15 gigabytes are enough. People who want to avoid paying can still use email and share photos, they argue. Those who go over the cap are likely streaming not properly compensated videos.
SCGC writes: "[W]hen you're downloading and consuming over 15 gigabytes of data a month, you're likely streaming Spotify. You're likely streaming YouTube. You're likely streaming Netflix. So we think because the FANG companies will not give us access to the numbers that they have, we have to apply a broad-based levy. They're forcing us to."
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Canadian Music Group Proposes 'Copyright Tax' On Internet Use

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  • blank CDRs (Score:5, Insightful)

    by marvinglenn ( 195135 ) on Sunday October 07, 2018 @01:22PM (#57441704)
    It's the tax on blank CDRs all over again.
    • Re:blank CDRs (Score:5, Interesting)

      by darkain ( 749283 ) on Sunday October 07, 2018 @01:24PM (#57441714) Homepage

      Came here to say the exact same thing. GG Canada. Nobody is buying CD-Rs anymore, so these asshats are trying to find other ways to force money out of people that have nothing to do with the work they're producing.

      • Re:blank CDRs (Score:5, Informative)

        by Layzej ( 1976930 ) on Sunday October 07, 2018 @01:59PM (#57441830)
        I agree. Given that Canada has signed on to the US copyright system [thestar.com], there is no need to look for alternative/additional compensation methods. It should be one or the other. According to the new rules, the Log Drivers Waltz [youtube.com] will not be public domain until 2072. Crazy.
        • Re:blank CDRs (Score:5, Informative)

          by commodore64_love ( 1445365 ) on Sunday October 07, 2018 @06:52PM (#57442756) Journal

          IRONY: The biggest pirate of all is the Music industry itself. Please take a moment to read this old article: "The plaintiffsâ(TM) (musicians) claimed compensation for use of work listed on what are known in the Canadian recording industry as âoepending lists.â These lists, accumulated over many years, contain works for which no licence was obtained and no compensation paid........ â" the action could have been worth up to $6-billion."

          In other words the music industry owed 6 billion dollars to musicians for non-payment of songs they used w/o comprensation. - LINK : https://business.financialpost... [financialpost.com]

          And the followup: The record industry only paid 50 million of the 6000 million owed to artists:
            https://entertainment.slashdot... [slashdot.org]

    • Re:blank CDRs (Score:5, Insightful)

      by barc0001 ( 173002 ) on Sunday October 07, 2018 @01:59PM (#57441832)

      And just like the CDR tax, all of us took that as a "license" to pirate anything that moved because hey, we'd already PAID for it.

      Law of unintended consequences, SCGC...

      • by dryeo ( 100693 )

        It was a license to copy non-commercially as ruled by the courts.

        • Yep. And with this new levy I guess it'll be a license for me to torrent every song and movie ever made, since that's also noncommercial.

          Sounds like a pretty good deal. They've got my vote!

      • My downloading from piratebay had dropped to zero, since I was obtaining my entertainment legally from Netflix.com or Slingtv.com........ WHY should I have to pay a "piracy" tax when I'm not pirating anything?

        Stupid.

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          To be fair they explain why in TFS, it's because they think that streaming services don't pay enough.

          They may have a point there, streaming services don't adequately compensate artists. But the solution is not to hit the consumers, it's to force the streaming sites to pay up. It's hard for them because a lot of the services are based in the US outside Canadian jurisdiction, but there are ways to handle that.

    • Hell, it's the tax on blank cassette tapes again. When they imposed it I lost all qualms about copying friends records, and making copies of my records for them.
      • by dryeo ( 100693 )

        Making copies of records for them was illegal, you should have just let them make the copy to meet the licensing that the copyright levy created. As long as they pressed the record button, perfectly legal thanks to the levy.

    • It's the tax on blank CDRs all over again.

      This proposal is so stupid that Hollywood will ram it down out throats in 3..2..1..

    • No it's not. The primary purpose of CDRs was to copy stuff kind of like Bittorrent where the legitimate use is actually far lower than the alternative.
      On the other hand 15GB of internet? I just bought, paid for, and downloaded Doom. Why should I pay a tax on 55GB of that download, especially when the vast majority of the several hundred GB that gets used in my house is gobbled up by streaming services which I already pay for.

  • Free copying (Score:3, Informative)

    by Vitdom ( 2092142 ) on Sunday October 07, 2018 @01:27PM (#57441718)
    Taxes on internet data to punish internet users or as an action to permit free copying of content on the internet? Here in Sweden we have to pay taxes on storage medium to compensate creators for "missed revenue" due to piracy, but piracy is not allowed even though you pay this fee.
    • Re: Free copying (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Cassini2 ( 956052 ) on Sunday October 07, 2018 @01:42PM (#57441770)
      The movie industry fought hard against a CD-R style tax on DVD-R's and on internet streaming. Apparently the courts in Canada asked why the music industry was chasing pirates when they already had a tax to deal with piracy.

      The movie industry noticed this decision and did not want the same thing to happen to them.

      Much of the current copyright fee structure had been created by a few very large corporations guarding their profits on a relatively sma number of works, and they don't care about any other concerns, people or artists. It really doesn't surprise me that this proposal is coming from a group of smaller artists. The current system is completely broken for smaller works, orphan works, and near orphan works.

  • by NewtonsLaw ( 409638 ) on Sunday October 07, 2018 @01:27PM (#57441720)

    Isn't Canada the place that put a media tax on CDR/RW disks and such -- because their poor music industry was so hard-done-by?

    My advice to Canadian musicians and singers: take a teaspoon of cement and harden up!

    • One of several places.

    • by Gabest ( 852807 )
      Hungary, too. Also on anything with a flash drive, like mobile phones. Must be a common practice in the world.
    • by anegg ( 1390659 )

      Isn't Canada the place that put a media tax on CDR/RW disks and such -- because their poor music industry was so hard-done-by?

      The current attempt at upping revenue sounds even more obnoxious. The claim doesn't seem to be that the tax is needed because of pirating, the claim seems to be that the tax is needed because the legally-negotiated compensation they receive through a streaming service isn't enough (as compared to other public performances, apparently). Is it really the case that having failed to negotiate what they think is a high enough amount of compensation through normal legal channels, they are seeking a government m

  • by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) on Sunday October 07, 2018 @01:32PM (#57441740)

    One of the reasons for this is that online streaming services are not paying as much as terrestrial broadcasters.

    Then get streaming services to pay you more, not Internet users in general.

    As for me, I don't think I've ever used more than 15GB in a month, but if I did, it wouldn't be because I downloaded (or streamed) music or video.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 07, 2018 @01:47PM (#57441790)

      If you're using >15GB Pornhub are probably 1st in line, not musicians, Canadian or otherwise.

      • by jedidiah ( 1196 )

        > If you're using >15GB Pornhub are probably 1st in line, not musicians, Canadian or otherwise.

        Or you just cut the cord and use Netflix, Amazon, iTunes, and friends.

        • by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) on Sunday October 07, 2018 @02:19PM (#57441916)

          > If you're using >15GB Pornhub are probably 1st in line, not musicians, Canadian or otherwise.

          Or you just cut the cord and use Netflix, Amazon, iTunes, and friends.

          Ya, I just checked and I actually do use more than 15GB / month -- watching Amazon Prime. If the SCGC thinks Amazon (and, by extension, Netflix) does not properly compensate their member, they should negotiate with (or sue) them, not extort the entire Internet base.

      • by Bert64 ( 520050 )

        Or big software updates...
        I blow through much more than 15GB, and most of it is software updates for the various devices in the house.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      It's really easy to go way over 15GB if you don't have cable and use Netflix, Amazon Prime. I don't pirate anything, don't use pornhub. Our family used about 700-800 GB a month. We have a 1Tb cap.
      • It's really easy to go way over 15GB if you don't have cable and use Netflix, Amazon Prime. ... Our family used about 700-800 GB a month. We have a 1Tb cap.

        Ya, I actually just checked and I have used more than 15GB this month - watching Amazon Prime (binging BSG and Doctor Who). I don't do this every month and, you're right, 15GB isn't actually very much these days. Still, if the SCGC has a problem, they need to negotiate with (or sue) the streaming providers, not extort money from the entire Internet base.

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 07, 2018 @01:39PM (#57441758)

    Why don't I just stop you on your way to work to your law firm and take some money out of your wallet because I think you should give me money.

    Oh wait, I can't. Because that's called robbery.

    • Let's tax people when they enter a grocery store and give the money to members of the National Restaurant Association.

      If you cook your own food you are Stealing From McDonald's!

  • Fun fact: The music industry sued to try and stop the production of player pianos because they will put the musicians out of work. The musicians cash cow is concert ticket, not album sales.

    Perhaps the music industry should pay for all the free promotion they are getting.

  • Dumb reasoning. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) on Sunday October 07, 2018 @01:48PM (#57441794)

    However, SCGC doesn't see the problem and believes that 15 gigabytes are enough.

    Who died and made you king of anything?

    People who want to avoid paying can still use email and share photos, they argue.

    Which they do using Internet data - ding dongs.

    Those who go over the cap are likely streaming not properly compensated videos.

    [citation needed]

    • Nobody died and made anyone king. Canada already has a queen. But it's also a democracy and as such everyone is allowed to propose dumb ideas.

      Having said that, read the last two sentences again. This looks a hell of a lot like a negotiating tactic to me.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 07, 2018 @01:49PM (#57441798)

    Bigger games these days are easily 45GB.

    These backwards, tech illiterate rights organisations can go fuck themselves.

    I say people who demand money for nothing in return are likely abusing their spouses. Have you stopped abusing your spouses Mr. Posner and Mr. Novotny?

  • Translation (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 07, 2018 @02:02PM (#57441840)

    "One of the reasons for this is that online streaming services are not paying as much as terrestrial broadcasters."

    Translation: Ee cut a "shitty deal" on public performance royalties for online streaming so we want more money forced through government taxes!

    "The composers SCGC represents are not the big music stars. They are the people who write music for TV-shows and other broadcasts."

    Translation: We're not one of those big star assholes trying to wring out money, we're one of the small time assholes trying to wring out money!

    "As a result, all Internet users who go over the cap will have to pay more. Even those who don't watch any of the programs where the music is used. However, SCGC doesn't see the problem and believes that 15 gigabytes are enough. People who want to avoid paying can still use email and share photos, they argue. Those who go over the cap are likely streaming not properly compensated videos."

    Translation: Even though our music is so bad you intentionally mute all the stuff you stream, send/receive over 15 gigabytes worth of games with properly compensated music, and avoid us like the plague, we still figure you owe us money because hypothetically you might have for a split second in those 15 gigabytes listened to a few notes of one of ours songs, so give us money!

    Gee, it sounds all so reasonable! While you're at it, why not have the government sue Amazon, Google, Microsoft, etc for all the money you're due? Then have the government suing ISPs because they facilitated all this under payed streaming. And then the consumers for daring to stream music without making sure to double or quintuple pay just to make sure the music creator/owner gets "enough" pay. You'll know you've paid enough when each music owner has bathroom fixtures plated in latinum.

  • 15GB, really? (Score:5, Informative)

    by Hamsterdan ( 815291 ) on Sunday October 07, 2018 @02:06PM (#57441860)

    Some of us are not using their ridicule low bandwitdh for pirating stuff. 15GB goes by pretty fast when you're using a *legal* streaming service (also known as Netflix & such). Besides, some games go easily over multi-GB downloads, PC or consoles (most recent console is a PS2, I'm more of a PC gamer). What about people streaming from Tou.TV or other channel's streaming services, in a legal way? it's CD-tax all over again because they are stuck in a model that doesn't work anymore... What about people using backblaze or any other cloud service? My DVR has a 3TB drive, and I stream a good percentage of it over my phone while not home, so my legally recorded OTA contents is gonna cost me is I stream more than about an hour and a half of free ATSC? And they're wondering why people are going illegal IPTV...

    • by dissy ( 172727 )

      Besides, some games go easily over multi-GB downloads, PC or consoles (most recent console is a PS2, I'm more of a PC gamer)

      Some of my Nintendo Switch console game downloads:

      15.6 gb - Zelda, breath of the wild
      14.5 gb - Skyrim
      17.3 gb - SouthPark, the fractured but whole
      21.3 gb - Doom
      12.1 gb - Wasteland 2
      13.7 gb - Wolfenstein 2
      12.8 gb - Hydrule warriors

      One doesn't even need a computer to overshoot 15gb, or nearly so.
      Even Fallout 4 at 37.6 gb from Steam is about 250% of their limit.

    • I'd agree with you on the games downloads and even playing of certain games, but I think you'll find they consider Netflix in the same group as Spotify. Netflix is operating outside of their control while also impacting on them.

  • by DrXym ( 126579 ) on Sunday October 07, 2018 @02:09PM (#57441872)
    ... and be compensated then the implication is that piracy should be made legal. Pirate / copy anything you like, since you get billed for it.

    But back in reality it's just a stupid, ill thought out tax. People using Netflix or another streaming service, or downloading games are the ones who'll be hit by this. If I were a Netflix / Amazon / Hulu subscriber and I though I was going to be taxed for using a legal service that I already paid for, I might be strongly inclined to just cut out the middle-man and pirate stuff from source.

  • by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) on Sunday October 07, 2018 @02:14PM (#57441898)

    However, SCGC doesn't see the problem and believes that 15 gigabytes are enough. ... Those who go over the cap are likely streaming not properly compensated videos.

    Or... Amazon Prime or Netflix. If you think those sources do not properly compensate you, negotiate with them, don't extort the entire Internet base.

  • by iCEBaLM ( 34905 ) on Sunday October 07, 2018 @02:15PM (#57441902)

    Or, if you used more than 15GB/mo, maybe you just downloaded Monster Hunter World (19.5GB), or Overwatch (15.7GB), or Rise of the Tomb Raider (22 GB), or Destiny 2 (80.3GB), like I did this past week.

    Jesus, what's that. 137.5 GB. I don't stream music, I don't have a spotify account, any music I download is paid for on itunes or amazon or whatever web store is cheapest that day.

    This is blank media tax all over again. Idiots.

  • by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Sunday October 07, 2018 @02:18PM (#57441906)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by Kjella ( 173770 ) on Sunday October 07, 2018 @02:32PM (#57441954) Homepage

    So we think because the FANG companies will not give us access to the numbers that they have, we have to apply a broad-based levy. They're forcing us to.

    If you can create a levy on ISPs, you can create a levy on FANG companies. That they don't want to give you the numbers today doesn't matter if it becomes law. This is just a fake play to create outrage that no we can't have bandwidth taxes so we have to pick the other half of the false dilemma.

  • I download more than 15GB/month in game patches for a variety of games across 4 computers and a playstation 4...

  • I have an Xbox One. Sometimes, twice in the same month, it'll download a 4.7 GB update. That's almost 2/3 of the 15 GB they're proposing, without me even doing anything past turning on a console and hitting ok.
  • Silence criminal scum! You have broken the law, pay the fine or pay the fine. What? No I don't care if you proclaim innocence, nor if you pay us already. You'll pay twice, if you're lucky. Three times should be mandatory, and you'll get nothing in return!
  • by jd ( 1658 ) <imipakNO@SPAMyahoo.com> on Sunday October 07, 2018 @03:26PM (#57442116) Homepage Journal

    So coders (downloading and running a full gentoo environment for kernel or glibc development work) and physicists (downloading the five parameters needed for the 3D positions of 1.693 billion stars) are expected to pay music royalties?

    I've heard of the music of the spheres, but Canada had better be able to produce solid proof the score is encoded in the galactic position.

    I have no issue with rightful payment for rightful dues. But to demand a ransom from the innocent to pay for the follies of the guilty, a reverse Robin Hood, that gets me annoyed.

    Claim the silver from those that owe and leave free software and galactic explorers alone.

  • I'm all for it, as long as part of the tax law requires people to be allowed to share and download whatever content they want without restrictions. That would fix a lot of what's wrong with the copyright system.
  • None of those are piracy sites. They pay the creators or remove unauthorized content.
  • SCGC's solution to this problem is to make every Canadian pay an extra fee when they use over 15 gigabytes of data per month. This money would then be used to compensate composers and fix the so-called "value gap."

    So much for amateur astronomy. Seriously, serious people should collect a tax whenever a proposal this stupid is taken seriously.

    I foresee bad karma by the metric firkinton for these Halloween wet-wipe razor blades.

  • You're likely streaming YouTube.

    In my experience, hardly any machine learning courses have an upbeat backing track.

    Worst case scenario: because under this proposal I would have effectively already paid for the music, they might add one.

  • Ok so the creators of this music are upset that they get less money when their music is played on a streaming service than they do when their music is played via more traditional means. The answer then is to increase the royalties streaming services have to pay for using this music to the same level as for traditional means of distributing content.

    Music publishers get the money they used to get before streaming exists and consumers aren't hit with some big new tax.

  • So we think because the FANG companies will not give us access to the numbers that they have, we have to apply a broad-based levy.

    This is such total bullshit. If they're going for a legislative solution, why not pass a law requiring online streaming companies to open their books and share details of what they're streaming? That would solve what they claim is the real problem (lack of information) without imposing a new tax. But of course that's not what they really want. They want a nice guaranteed reve

  • They keep trying to make this shit fly again and again and again. It's no different than trying to put a tax on email usage.
    If they can't negotiate better royalty deals for music then fuck 'em, they suck and they get what they deserve. No doing an end-run around the negotiation process and fucking us with an 'internet tax'.
  • Right, if users are taxed, then there should be no more piracy claim about their usages. All sources should become legal to use. Even The Pirate Bay.
  • Make your stuff worth buying. The only music that I've bought has been from the independent artists which aren't represented by these idiots. Any TV or movies are foreign series because the quality is much higher.

    I use between 100GB and 200GB a month and none of it is from streaming music, TV, or movies.

    Like other have said, if the streaming services aren't paying enough (supposedly) then don't go after your customers, go after the streaming services.

  • by HalAtWork ( 926717 ) on Sunday October 07, 2018 @10:10PM (#57443204)

    "[W]hen you're downloading and consuming over 15 gigabytes of data a month, you're likely streaming Spotify. You're likely streaming YouTube. You're likely streaming Netflix"

    So what... Are they not collecting royalties from Spotify, YouTube, and Netflix? If not, why is that the problem of consumers? Contact Spotify, YouTube, and Netflix and sort it out there.

  • So the CD tax sort of made sense given the primary purpose of a blank CD was used for piracy. In a way this is like Bittorrent. Sure there are legimiate uses for bittorrent but ultimately the illegitimate use has completely swamped the legitimate uses.

    The internet on the other hand isn't like that at all. Netflix and Youtube represent 50% of internet traffic together. Throw in Pornhub, xhamster, and actual HTTP traffic and you're closer to 75%. Hulu and other streaming services add a few percent here and th

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