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Businesses Government Network The Internet United States

FCC Proposes To Maintain US Broadband Standard of 25Mbps Down, 3Mbps Up (arstechnica.com) 194

The FCC is proposing to maintain the U.S. broadband standard at the current level of 25Mbps downstream and 3Mbps upstream. FCC Chairman Ajit Pai has kept the standard at these speeds since 2017, despite calls to raise it from Democratic Commissioner Jessica Rosenworcel. This week, Pai proposed keeping the standard the same for another year. Ars Technica reports: The FCC raised the standard from 4Mbps/1Mbps to 25Mbps/3Mbps in January 2015 under then-Chairman Tom Wheeler. Ajit Pai, who was then a commissioner in the FCC's Republican minority, voted against raising the speed standard. As FCC chairman since 2017, Pai has kept the standard at 25Mbps/3Mbps despite calls to raise it from Democratic Commissioner Jessica Rosenworcel. This week, he proposed keeping the standard the same for another year. "This inquiry fundamentally errs by proposing to keep our national broadband standard at 25Mbps," Rosenworcel said yesterday. "It is time to be bold and move the national broadband standard from 25 Megabits to 100 Megabits per second. When you factor in price, at this speed the United States is not even close to leading the world. That is not where we should be and if in the future we want to change this we need both a more powerful goal and a plan to reach it. Our failure to commit to that course here is disappointing. I regretfully dissent." While Pai's proposal isn't yet finalized, keeping the current speed standard would likely mean that Pai's FCC will conclude that broadband deployment is already happening fast enough throughout the US. Pai could use that conclusion in attempts to justify further deregulation of the broadband industry.
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FCC Proposes To Maintain US Broadband Standard of 25Mbps Down, 3Mbps Up

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  • by jfdavis668 ( 1414919 ) on Friday August 10, 2018 @08:33PM (#57105288)
    Since I only have 10 down and 1 up now, 25 and 3 will be quite an improvement.
    • Re:Can't wait (Score:4, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 10, 2018 @08:49PM (#57105352)

      This is about calling it "Broadband". It doesn't mean they will upgrade your speed. They just can't call the slower junk "broadband". (Also: 25/3 = broadband has existed for a few years already...)

      • Oh ya, it's existed for some time, it doesn't mean it's available to everyone and ISPs will call stuff slow than that "broadband".

      • "Broadband" means my wife and daughter can stream two different movies, and I can still read email and get work done.

        Even at HD quality, 10 Mbps is good enough for that.

        • by Rewind ( 138843 )
          That is subjective, unless the email is the most bandwidth intensive bit of your work, I doubt that. I mean 10 down isn't awful, but calling to broadband in the US in 2018? Also doing much of any work with a git repo on 1 up sounds awful. Ultimately the problem is that word means "good internet" to a lot of people simply because they do not understand any more detailed explanations of speed.
        • Until your work is interrupted by your daughter complaining that her Disney stream is stopping/stuttering because Disney is not paying your provider the same as Netflix is to keep the streams ehem... steaming. But that's a different subject, isn't it?

          I agree that 10 Mbps should be enough but in my experience, it rarely is. Diagnosing why... is it the provider? Is it the streaming service? Is it something in between!? Now days I am told I get "up to 150 Mbps downloads!" & speed tests seem to confi

          • Do you understand how peering works? And why netflix got fucked when they tried to go around everyone that actrually OWNS the wires used for the internet and decided they could get a better peering deal by their self. then they cried foul when the other companies laughed in their face(paraphrasing and such) a quick google search will give you the truth about it, comcast didnt just decide to throttle netflix out of the blue even know thats how most try to portray it to "push NN".

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      It's not only far below the standard of most Western countries, we pay more for it than they do for better speeds.

      Pai and his cronies are corporate shills, not responsible regulators. He needs to be shown the door.
    • by GLowder ( 622780 )
      This is all laughable to those of us "last milers". We're out in the country at the edge of DSL. We're lucky to get 2.6 down / 0.3 up. My wife can saturate one line easily so if Dad (me) wants to game, I have to have my own DSL line, hence we have two DSL lines into our house. It's still just barely liveable. A new neighbor down the street can't even get DSL (he's actually closer to the DSL access point than I am). AT&T told him they're not installing them anymore because they're not profitable.
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • by dryeo ( 100693 )

        I'm in Canada, stuck on dial-up until last year, now I have an LTE connection, 10-25 down 1-3 up depending on time of day, with a 250GB limit. Does cost close to a hundred a month.

      • by jwhyche ( 6192 )
        Been there. Satellite was my only option. The cable for internet service ended about a 100 feet from my house I could have thrown the last mile for service. I actually offered to pay all the expenses to run it to my house. They wouldn't do it because I was outside the service area and there was enough houses to service.
    • by Greyfox ( 87712 )
      Back in '98 I was shelling out $200 a month for 128K ISDN. As late as 2011, I've lived in places where 1mbps DSL was my only option. Having gone to municipal symmetrical gigabit, it'll be hard to move anywhere else. That's where the USA needs to be right now. If broadband markets were actually allowed to be competitive, it could be. The forces that prevent it are largely corrupt, and the voters very much need to make this an election issue everywhere.
    • No 4k or 8k TV for me

  • by Darinbob ( 1142669 ) on Friday August 10, 2018 @08:34PM (#57105290)

    I guess I don't have broadband after all.

  • by Anonymous Coward

    "Broadband" means something specific, and that meaning doesn't shift over time. "High-speed," on the other hand, is much more subjective and liable to shift with the times.

  • With all the shenanigans lately, perhaps the best way to fix problems with providers and the FCC is to vote for canidates who don't take PAC money. Crony capitalism doesn't seem to be providing the best infrastructure, regulation, or competitive rates.
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Crony capitalism doesn't seem to be providing the best infrastructure, regulation, or competitive rates.

      Government is a reflection on the people who voted and on the people who didn't vote. Infrastructure is vital, but people don't treat it as vital. They are easily distracted and directed. You don't think Donald Trump really cares that players kneel do you? No it is red meat for his base lest their accidentally wake up and smell the smoke.

      In fact the times we live in have convinced me of one thing. If Nixon was in power right now, he would never be impeached in a million years.

      If anyone wants to make Am

    • With all the shenanigans lately, perhaps the best way to fix problems with providers and the FCC is to vote for canidates who don't take PAC money.

      That would work if we were not in a hyper-partisan environment where they rather have their "team" win even if it requires PAC money. One way to dilute the problem would be to have ranked voting so that multiple candidates from the same party can be on the ballot or we can have real third party choices.

      • by mentil ( 1748130 )

        Unfortunately the few candidates that propose voting reforms like that, tend to lose the primaries. Same with the ones who oppose gerrymandering.

    • by mentil ( 1748130 )

      Never gonna happen so long as people keep voting for the person who spends the most on political advertising. They don't always win, but they do often enough that they go to the effort of fundraising. If anything, the death of old media will end that. I'm not hopeful that society will suddenly discover critical thinking or independent research.

      • This is precisely why SCOTUS ruled the way it did in Citizen's United. By making money free speech and permitting "dark" untraceable spending on electioneering, it paved the way for large foreign/international corporations to funnel unlimited money into the election process. Now Putin and the Saudis have more to say who gets elected than you do. The irony, of course, is that they are now much better able to fool a sizable fraction of the electorate to vote against their own interests.

        • by mentil ( 1748130 )

          OTOH turning it into a national security/sovereignty issue might be the only way to fix it.

  • What does ... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by PPH ( 736903 ) on Friday August 10, 2018 @08:42PM (#57105332)

    ... Pai have at his house? Any chance we can get that throttled back to 25/3?

  • Welp (Score:3, Insightful)

    by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Friday August 10, 2018 @08:56PM (#57105388)
    at least they didn't drop it. At this point I wouldn't be surprised by anything this FCC admin does.
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Darinbob ( 1142669 )

      The primary qualification to be appointed by Trump is to be wholely dedicated heart and soul to dismantling all regulations. These guys make Tea Party faithfuls seem tepid in comparison. Ajit Pai however is on a committee and he can't just dismantle via fiat, he has to get enough of the other members to go along with him. If he had his way, the airwaves would be controlled by whichever corporate trade association had the biggest guns, Shadowrun style.

    • by SeaFox ( 739806 )

      at least they didn't drop it.

      Would it matter if they did? These random numbers have no real effect on what services you can or cannot get. They're just speeds the government says you have to provide to use a specific marketing term in your advertisement. There's plenty of alternative terms that are not being regulated the same way.

    • I think the idea was tossed around early on. And I agree, this feels like a 'victory'.
    • "The American people realize that a lot of our greatest technical innovation took place when internet speeds averaged out at 56k, so . . ."
  • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Data Caps & Rural (Score:4, Interesting)

    by bill_mcgonigle ( 4333 ) * on Friday August 10, 2018 @09:14PM (#57105468) Homepage Journal

    I'd rather have slow DSL than fast mobile, personally, because my household uses about 300GB/mo.

    But the FCC thinks they're interchangable, which is a big problem.

    Also 39% of rural Americans don't even have access to the current standard. As a government entity they ought to be focused on that, from a 14th Amendment perspective. If their rules are slowing new deployments, that's an equal protection issue, and the data shows that the Title II rules did just that.

    https://www.fcc.gov/reports-re... [fcc.gov]

  • 25/3 is fine (Score:3, Insightful)

    by irving47 ( 73147 ) on Friday August 10, 2018 @09:19PM (#57105488) Homepage

    Just to avoid getting kicked in the face for agreeing with anything he says, at all...: I hate Pai.
    I'd stand in a line just to WATCH him get punched in the face, but 25/3 to meet the requirements of the term 'broadband' for these rural areas with shitty wiring and terrible population density is plenty. 25Mbps downstream is *multiple* 720p or better video streams down and at least 1-2 up. Considering the percentage of Internet traffic that is youtube and facebook and netflix, that's fair math.
    Yeah, of course I want my price to go down, but that's NEVER going to happen with any provider, regardless what the FCC declares "broadband" to be. The last thing I want is to subsidize rural areas getting 1Gbps for 1 house per square mile across the whole country. Let the WISPS do it.

    • Aside from the "punching" stuff.... +1 insightful. This has nothing to do with raising standards across the country, it has more to do with subsidies and the HUGE number of homes that don't even have what we NOW call "broadband." Until we can bring up rural areas to current standards, why do we need to elevate the definition for everyone else?

      Besides, let's not pretend that most cities don't already have way, way higher rates than 25/3 right now. I think I might be on the cheapest and slowest plan on my

      • There are lots of ways rural areas differ from urban areas, and always will, because no one is willing to pony up the massive amount of subsidies it would take to eliminate the differences:

        * With enough subsidies, you could entice world-class theater companies to perform in Bankston, Iowa, population 25.
        * With enough subsidies, you could entice airlines to provide scheduled passenger service to every grass airstrip.
        * With enough subsidies, you could get a subway built that connects Riverside, Georgia to Fun

        • by Calydor ( 739835 )

          Neither of those things mentioned are requirements for functioning in modern society and being able to discuss with your social circles the most basic things they're talking about.

          Internet access is. For all intents and purpose, stable internet with an acceptable minimum speed should be considered a utility on par with electricity and running water.

        • The problem is that having internet is getting to be more and more necessary to be able to function in today's society. No, someone living in a rural area doesn't need world-class theater or subway, but they do need options other than: *1-2 MB DSL (if they can get it) * Dialup * Satellite * Nothing
          • they do need options other than: *1-2 MB DSL

            I have 1.5 Mbps DSL (and I don't even live in a rural area). It's enough to get a pretty sharp picture when watching Netflix, so I feel no need to upgrade to something faster.

            Am I missing something? Do I have needs that I'm not aware of? Why the obsession with more speed than one needs?

    • I agree that 25 down is fine especially because many places still don't even have that but I wish they would raise the upload. The ratio originally was 4/1 and now has dropped to 10/1. 10/1 prevents any innovations that require real 2 way communication. 10/1 basically says that download is all that matters and upload is just for assisting downloading. There are likely a ton of innovations that could benefit from symmetrical connections.

      • There are likely a ton of innovations that could benefit from symmetrical connections.

        That's true, but you can't really have it without at least fiber to the curb, if not the home. And the telcos haven't even got broadband to all their customers who have copper. This in spite of our paying them billions of dollars of tax money to do it, and their repeated promises that it would be done long ago. For instance, these payments and promises go all the way back to the days of Pacific Bell. That was two buyouts ago! At the time the promised speed was much lower, and they still haven't delivered th

    • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
      For a person watching a movie on one smart 4K TV.
      Do much more networking and faster network is needed.
  • Why bother? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by bistromath007 ( 1253428 ) on Friday August 10, 2018 @09:36PM (#57105544)
    There's no reason to raise the standard if it's already not being met.
    • by Anonymous Coward

      Because raising the standards causes more regions to be 'underserved', forcing the FCC by mandate to enforce means to serve those regions. Such as requesting bids from competitors rather than relying on the lame promises of the incumbent.

      This, obviously, is what Pai's masters at Verizon don't want. They'd rather be able to maintain monopoly in their service areas. If they're building 25/3 for a given area, they claim it's served broadband because it's work in progress, even if that result won't be seen for

  • by Anonymous Coward

    Keep it at 25x3. Those of us getting less than 10 or nothing at all need the subsidies. If they raise it to 100 the big companies will just cherry pick the most profitable places near town to upgrade. Those of us truely hurting from the digital devide wont see any improvement.

  • I only get 1mbps/8mbps max on my dsl often less because the speed fluctuates a lot.
  • It's tradition, like how we call the Acela "High-Speed Rail"

  • Most slashdot readers don't get it, but rural broadband is hard. Remember rural areas? You know, the places outside of cities?

    America is big, and the rural America are really big. Stringing wire and fiber is expensive, and will never be cost-effective.

    Let's take Etex.net. They have a service area of 710 square miles. That's about the size of Singapore, with a population density of about 0. There are probably 30,000 potential customers in their service area.

    They offer 20Mbps, tops. Are they going to string f

    • The thing is that we've been paying the providers all those added taxes and fees that do not actually get collected by the government but go into funds for the ISP to buildout rural areas but nobody enforced this. Spectrum promised a lot of states when Charter and TWC merged that they would take their newfound profits and invest in building out unserved and underserved areas and thus far they haven't built out 100M to a single community that didn't already have it.

    • by Kjella ( 173770 )

      Let's take Etex.net. They have a service area of 710 square miles. That's about the size of Singapore, with a population density of about 0. There are probably 30,000 potential customers in their service area.

      So 30000/710 = ~42/square mile or roughly the same as here in Norway (41). Right now 94% has access to a wired connection, 84% has the possibility for 100 Mbps download and 52% has fiber.

      So you can string fiber 20 miles to that guy's house for $140k. How do you make that back?

      If there's one guy living 20 miles from everybody else in a dead end where you'd never need a fiber passing through then obviously you don't. But that cost is an actual cable gate and everything, not one more strand of fiber. So it's more about the marginal cost of connecting one more fiber customer.

      Here in Norway we actual

      • In the US, companies aren't going to invest in running the 30 miles of fiber between some towns. That's the crux of the issue, really. While our persons per sq kilometer is double what yours is average density wise, there is a great cost in running the actual lines to these locations.

        As an example, the US has 5.5 million miles of just local power lines going to these homes. 5.5 million miles of fiber optic cable costs a whole boatload to run.

    • The thing about areas of low population density is that MOST PEOPLE ARE SOMEWHERE ELSE.

      The real, acknowledged problems with rural broadband have nothing to do with connectivity in metropolitan areas with over 1 million people.

    • Most slashdot readers don't get it, but rural broadband is hard.

      It's even harder when you don't bother to try to solve it, and hand out the tax money you were given to solve it as executive bonuses instead.

  • I honestly don't know why one need to have 100Mbps down at home except for multiple 4K streams, but we all know that 4K title library is still very limited. The real problem in this country is not that urban dwellers can't get 100Mbit speed (they can, and in fact they can go up to gigabit speeds in most big cities). The problem is that getting even 25 megabit internet is still very hard in rural America.

  • and with no network neutrality that can be to the local hub.

  • I have DSL and am currently syncing at 9 down and 1 up and its plenty for even high quality streams and downloads. For me 25 down and 3 up would be more than adequate provided I can actually GET that speeds at the times I want to use it.

    They should keep the definition at 25 x 3 but ban the use of terms like "up to" and require providers to demonstrate that people can actually GET the advertised speed (e.g. via speed tests). For reference, a speed test on my DSL connection shows 7.85 down and 0.87 up (try ge

  • The advertisers will just switch wording to high speed and keep selling snake oil to everyone.

  • ... ISP's think prices must go up, so this proposition is just a justification to raise prices.

    When your base product even doesn't need to match 25/3 trump's administration thinks it's just fine. Keep 'em under control is more their goal.
    That's why net neutrality was killed.

    Even the EU uses that as a practice nevertheless what they say.

  • Ajit Pai works for a Republican government, so of course he uses the power of big government to control the market.

    Here in Japan, you canâ(TM)t get less than 40GB up and down for $30 a month (on wireless). Pay $20 more and you get 70GB-plus. In the home, itâ(TM)s 150GB for wired at around $40-$60. Currently weâ(TM)re part of a co-op, so we pay $12 a month for that speed.

    • Here in Japan, you canÃ(TM)t get less than 40GB up and down for $30 a month

      You are very wrong about something. Either you're talking a data cap, not speed, or you're using the wrong numbers. Because even high speed intra-computer connections (to hard drives/USB3.1 devices) don't get 20% of that speed.

    • I'm going to have to blame really, really bad translations on what your saying. We're talking line speed here, not data caps.

  • Of all the problems with broadband access, bandwidth is the least of them, much less how FCC defines it. The actual problems are lack of competition, lack of transparency in pricing, deceptive advertising and cost per gigabyte of data. I have DSL. OK, I can't stream video in HD. But as far as downloading and submitting forms, reading news, logging comments and in general "participating in the digital economy", it's fine. I hate to agree with Ajit Pai, but on this issue he's right, we should be concentr
  • My perspective is the reason we have big servers like YouTube and very few actual publishers is because of the asymmetric down and up speeds. Imagine if you had 25mbps up links? I think many more people were start to publish out of their own homes and offices than do presently. After all... that is why we upload to Youtube, Facebook, etc. We have lots of problems to solve but right now, it seems the biggest problem are the huge monopolies that dictate internet content and policy. The internet needs equ
  • I would be overjoyed if the entire country had access to a minimum of 25 megabit data connections. I see nothing wrong with this being the minimum speed. Heck, not long ago I had fiber giving me 30.

        Now, it should be noted I'm on Gigabit personally....

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