Companies Must Let Customers Cancel Subscriptions Online, California Law Says (cnet.com) 100
A California law that went into effect July 1 is aimed at making it easier for customers to cancel their subscriptions online. From a report: The law states that customers who accept an automatic renewal or continuous service offer online must be able to cancel the service online. That could include a pre-written "termination email" provided by the company that can be sent by the consumer without the need for more information. The law means you won't have to make anymore phone calls to obscure customer service hotlines to cancel services like news subscriptions, music streaming or meal plans, for example. One person tweeted about trying to cancel a New York Times subscription on the phone and being put on hold for 15 minutes -- twice.
GOOD (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:GOOD (Score:5, Informative)
It's too difficult to cancel services. Anything that makes it easier is good.
Yes... all too many times, the only way to cancel a service is be on hold for an hour- and then listen to a "retain the customer" sales pitch for 10 minutes- tell them no, I'm not interested a dozen times- wait another 30 minutes to be transferred to the real person who can cancel the service... etc. - and you can't just hang up on them because you NEED them to cancel the service.
Companies know what they're doing when they make it nearly impossible to cancel.
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ces. Other places require notification - and once you give that notification they will drop the call.
Have you noticed that mostly when you call customer service, they tell you the call "may be recorded for quality purposes" or somesuch? Check with a lawyer in your state, but in most places, that means the company knows the call may be recorded - by either side, because the law isn't specific that way.
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I would go as far as to say, if you your goal with recording is quality assurance (and enforcement in the court of public opinion obviously helps with quality overall) you have been explicitly granted permission to record.
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All calls are recorded so that in question about a call the csr will replay the conversion.
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No. Because by then you're no longer a customer and no longer beholden to the contract.
You're now being fraudulently charged for a service you have not requested, and that's actionable in a court of law.
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In theory, but are you really willing to take the time to take a company to court?
The threat doesn't work until you are talking to a human, and even then the person you are talking to will likely just transfer you around .
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Yes... all too many times, the only way to cancel a service is be on hold for an hour- and then listen to a "retain the customer" sales pitch for 10 minutes
Why do people put up with that?
Last time a company asked me to call to discuss a (shipping) subscription cancellation, I emailed them that I want to cancel -- and if they don't, I will cancel myself (via a credit card).
Believe it or not, they cancelled my subscription with no further questions.
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I've done that a few times.
E-mailed customer service "I've tried to cancel, and failed, I will fight my next bill with a chargeback".
I don't know how well it'd work with a company the size of Comcast is some such though.
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It's a bit inconvenient to cause a chargeback, though. It usually involves the fraud department at the card issuer and they will insist on issuing a new card with a new number. That is, after they insist that you're lying to them for 15 minutes.
Still, it works well enough until the company in question "force bills" you. "Force billing" allows the merchant to obtain your new credit card number and expiration date. Even if your card was cancelled due to fraudulent charges by that company. And then your card i
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Interesting, I've never had it go that far, but I can fully imagine a company that has no reputation to worry about (such as Comcast) doing that.
Simply telling the company's customer service if they won't work with me, I'll work with the credit card company instead is enough.
Generally subscriptions with a cheap/free first month.
Slave (Score:1)
Haha you hate california so much you'd actually rather companies fuck you over?
Jesus christ you're a fucking lost cause.
How so? Did Congress pass a contravening law? (Score:2)
How do you figure? The interstate commerce clause says the Washington politicians can make laws about selling things been states. It doesn't say states can't regulate business in their own state, as long as they don't try to undo federal law on the particular subject (the supremacy clause). Sale of fireworks is an example many of us are conscious of today - different states allow different types of fireworks to be sold, with different regulations on how they sold. The federal government (US DOT) regulates h
California law (Score:1)
Compliance with California law seems to force businesses to improve service for the rest of the country, too. I'd like California courts to rule that APK spam is illegal and put an end to that bullshit once and for all.
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F-U! Vonage!!! (Score:2)
I had Vonage for 3 years and used it like maybe 5 times. Because the only way you could cancel was to call them and sit on hold for 2 hours. Those bastards should rot in hell.
Retention department? (Score:2)
In the UK, they like to force you to cancel via phone (or other interactive method) so they can push you to their retention department to offer you a deal to stay. Many people take advantage of this to get a better deal - I guess this makes it easier for the people who have decided to definitely leave to get out without jumping thorough the hoops.
I imagine (like many things) we got this from the US - presumably this is how it works in California also?
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In a number of industries, like ISPs and energy providers, you just start buying elsewhere and they have to let the new company cancel the old contact automatically. For others if you want to cancel the easy way, send a snail mail letter. They seem to pay much more attention to those, and it takes way less time than waiting on hold.
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Another way of doing it ... (Score:3)
send a letter (paper mail) to the managing director/CEO at their registered head office; then cancel the continuous-authority/direct-debit with your bank. Most companies hate this as they don't like dealing with paper; however you have given them legal notice. I will do that if they make it hard to cancel, I have better things to do than waste my time trying to talk to someone in a call center.
Re: Another way of doing it ... (Score:1)
That's why you send registered mail ($5)
Re: Another way of doing it ... (Score:5, Interesting)
In England you don't even need to pay; you can get a 'proof of posting' certificate for no charge if you post the letter at the Post Office counter. The courts will deem the letter received 2 working days later, I have done this many times.
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This applies throughout the UK (England, Scotland, Wales) & Northern Ireland. You have two levels of proof:
1) Proof of Posting (Free at Post Office)
2) Recorded delivery (small cost GBP0.75 = approx USD 1) which gives a copy of the person's signature for the letter by entering Post Office website. Either is OK for the courts.
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Many companies have a strict policy of retaining all registered mail, unopened, in their archives so they can prove in court they never read your letter.
Few do the same for FedEx though.
503 Service Unavailable (Score:3, Funny)
The Subscription Termination Server is temporarily unavailable to service your request due to capacity problems. Please try again later.
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How about Comcast? (Score:2)
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Yes, in Northern California (Bay Area). There's a decent chance though that they'll somehow screen things to have it only apply to account holders in CA.
Cancelling Comcast, AT&T etc (Score:2)
Easiest way by far is to go to one of their retail outlets, with any equipment that you need to return (ideally in original packaging) and a bill to make account IDing easy.
Presuming there's an outlet convenient for you of course...
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Comment removed (Score:3)
New York Times (Score:4, Interesting)
While the New York Times does have sections for local New York state and city news it is a nationally distributed newspaper. Since they do business in California they're stuck with California law when dealing with California customers.
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If we ever have a cultural revolution those people will be fucking barbecue
About time (Score:2)
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Not only do they make you call, but they give you a hard time about cancelling. I have a tivo in every room. Whenever I replace one and cancel the old the agent is first astonished by how many I have and for how long I've been a customer. They they ask why I want to cancel a single tivo and if I hate them or something. I explain that I simply purchased a new one and want to get rid of the old.
Once they even tried to convince me to purchase a lifetime service for an out of warranty model that had a fried
Re: About time (Score:2)
Use PayPal where possible (Score:5, Informative)
Where possible I use PayPal as the payment method for an automatic renewal service.
Then I cancel the payment agreement on PayPal, which is very easy to do.
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Where possible I use PayPal
Or, you could use a credit card, which are actually regulated by some laws.
You should be able to cancel the subscription that refuses to go away just as easily via a credit card.
Re:Use PayPal where possible (Score:4, Interesting)
Where possible I use PayPal
Or, you could use a credit card, which are actually regulated by some laws.
You should be able to cancel the subscription that refuses to go away just as easily via a credit card.
I don't know if that is true. With PayPal you have to set up a "prior authorization for recurring charges" agreement. You can cancel that any time and subsequent vendor charges will get rejected. With a credit card the charge will be accepted. You can dispute the charge but you have to work with the vendor as part of the dispute resolution process.
insurance scam related (Score:4, Insightful)
I recently changed jobs, and my previous employer's life insurance company tried to pull a fast one on me.
I did not need to continue the LI policy from the last job, I have one with my new job. the previous one was trying to be 'helpful' by giving me the option to continue it. that's fine, but...
they didn't phrase it that way, and that caused me to waste time with them. they sent me a 'bill' and it was hard to tell it was not a real bill. it looked like they auto-subscribed me to a continued service without my permission. I did not want to deal with a collections agency and all THAT hassle, when I never signed up for such service to begin with.
I called the LI company and asked what this was about. at first, they tried to snow me into believing I had to mail them some kind of letter or fax something to cancel this service. I asked what would happen if I just ignored the 'bill' and they finally admitted that the 'policy' would be void and there would be no charge.
so, why make me mail in some stupid shit and waste time when I could just ignore it and not have to spend time on a thing I never authorized?
reason: they hope to snag enough dumb fish and I bet they do, since they are still in business (and likely they make a lot from false 'renewals').
companies *think* they need to resort to low-handed tactics to be profitable, but its just pure greed. this is not - and should never be - part of a business plan. harassing past customers is not a sound business strat.
they are now on my 'never do business with' list. but I'm just one person, and their behavior will never change.
Disgraceful need a law for this! (Score:2)
This is what we've come to, needing a law to force easy cancellation of a service. Sigh. It's disgraceful that companies have sunk so low in how they treat their customers.
and completely automated.. (Score:3)
I remember back in the days of working for a dial-up ISP, I developed an on-line-cancellation process, to complement the online registration systems.
Go to customer accounts web site.
Pass the usual authentication credentials
Click on cancel service.
Choose which service you want to cancel
Confirm.
If the user is currently connected via that service, disconnect the session immediately, flag the service account closed on the authentication server, remove DNS entries, deny incoming email, remove associated web hosting, get the billing system to record the service closure and associated billing product pro-rated refund calculated, and if it was the last billable service on that account, the refund to go through automatically to their usual payment source.
End-to-end, it would take minutes.
If user is not currently connected via that service, it would require a human to vet authentication, and call them back to confirm.
It was never deployed. DSL came along, and with it supplier contracts with a 12 month mininum contract term per customer line, which made the cancellation process tougher to automate.
Use virtual numbers or gift cards (Score:2)
Citicard made a goof and created a "service" allowing these companies to bill me even after the expiry date has gone. One was the ISP 1an1. One would think such an on line ISP will have an easy way to cancel the subscription or change the service level. It was a nightmare. They somehow got their bill posted to my account and charged
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Ahh, yes. The good old "force bill". Basically the card issuers being complicity in fraud. I have a theory that MasterCard and Visa themselves require their licensees to honour force bills.
I had someone sign up for a subscription service with my card (probably skimmed at a hotel). I called, argued with the card issuer for 15 minutes before they reversed the charge and cancelled the card (and issued a new one). That *should* have been the end of it. But then a month later, that same subscription was billed a
This is why I hold back (Score:2)
Difficult cancellation processes is why I refuse to sign up for most monthly billed services. I once received a complimentary XM Radio service for a few months, as part of an auto dealership service promotion. I liked the service, and wanted to extend it, but once I realized that I would have to be billed month-to-month via credit card, and would have to cancel via phone call, I decided it was not worth it.
It was easier when you h
Agreed (Score:3)
The XM contract I was offered made it clear that phone call was the only avenue to cancel. No thanks.
Does this include credit cards? (Score:2)
If this includes cancelling credit cards, it would be a godsend. No card company will let you do that online.
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Yes, businesses can choose not to do business in CA if they don't want those customers .
Sigh. (Score:2)
Try the normal way.
If it's inconvenient or you keep being passed to "retentions" against your will, hang up. The words "No, I'm cancelling. No I don't need to sit through any advert. I'm cancelling. This is me cancelling. This is my notification that I've canceled. Am I cancelled now?" are how you do it.
If they don't listen, you then hang up and write them a letter. State your request to cancel. Demand proof of receipt.
On the deadline date in your letter, cancel the credit card / bank payment if the
XM (Score:3)
XM doesn't allow cancellation by anything but phone call
https://m.siriusxm.com/pdf/siriusxm_customeragreement_eng.pdf [siriusxm.com]
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It DOESN'T MATTER.
You do what I said. No court will ever tell you that you were wrong to do so, that they were reasonable in not acting upon your letter, or that they can do that.
Imagine if they said "Oh, we can only accept cancellation requests if they are faxed to an international premium number between 00:01 and 00:02am on a full moon", you think a court would let that stand either?
This isn't even consumer law. This is just basics of legal service and communication. You DO NOT ignore a recorded-delive
I'd like to check (Score:2)
Kindly post the appropriate legalese from one of your "any number of letters confirming just that" so we can see what law is in the argument.
Finally (Score:2)
Fortunately (Score:1)