6 Fitbit Employees Charged With Stealing Trade Secrets From Jawbone (mercurynews.com) 80
Six current and former Fitbit employees were charged in a federal indictment Thursday filed in San Jose for allegedly being in possession of trade secrets stolen from competitor Jawbone, according to information from the Department of Justice. From a report: The indictment charges the six people -- Katherine Mogal, 52, of San Francisco; Rong Zhang, 45, of El Cerrito; Jing Qi Weiden, 39, of San Jose; Ana Rosario, 33, of Pacifica; Patrick Narron, 41, of Boulder Creek; and Patricio Romano, 37, of Calabasas -- with violating confidentiality agreements they had signed as former employees of Jawbone after they accepted employment with Fitbit, according to an announcement from Acting U.S. Attorney Alex G. Tse and Homeland Security Investigations Special Agent in Charge Ryan L. Spradlin. San Francisco-based companies Fitbit and Jawbone were competitors in making wearable fitness trackers until Jawbone, once valued at $3.2B, went out of business in 2017. Each of the defendants worked for Jawbone for at least one year between May 2011 and April 2015, and had signed a confidentiality agreement with the company, according to the Department of Justice.
Not sure why this is illegal (Score:5, Interesting)
Trade secrets are intellectual property (Score:2)
Not sure why this is illegal. it seems like it should be a contract dispute, not a federal crime.
I would expect it is because trade secrets are a form of federally recognized and protected intellectual property, as are copyrights and patents.
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I would expect it is because trade secrets are a form of federally recognized and protected intellectual property, as are copyrights and patents.
The Justice Dept does not enforce copyrights or patents. If someone violates your patent, that is your problem, not the government's. You can sue, but you can't go to the police.
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The Justice Dept does not enforce copyrights or patents. If someone violates your patent, that is your problem, not the government's. You can sue, but you can't go to the police.
True, but the legal issues are still beyond a mere contract dispute due to the federal statutes regarding IP. The original question was about a "federal crime vs contract dispute".
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The Justice Dept does not enforce copyrights or patents. If someone violates your patent, that is your problem, not the government's. You can sue, but you can't go to the police.
Wild a**ed speculation: Jawbone is bankrupt, DOJ involvement is somehow due to government management of the corporation's former assets. Potential damages from this suit being a financial "asset".
Never seen a DVD or VHS? Criminal vs civil copyrig (Score:3)
Have you never seen the FBI Warning at the beginning of every DVD or VHS? The FBI is part of DOJ.
There are both civil and criminal copyright statues, very much like you can sue someone for taking your money in order to try to get some of it back, and the government can prosecute theft criminally. Just this week in the news a major star was suing their manager for allegedly stealing the celebrity's money. That civil suit, to recover the money, doesn't bar criminal prosecution if in fact a crime was c
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It's a little bit tricky... copyright and patents are awarded by the federal government (talking U.S. here, obviously), but no such analogue applies for trade secrets. For example, secrets deemed “business information” are only protected under state law, if at all for that matter. One of the obvious differences between trade secrets and copyright & patents is filing/disclosure with the federal government. The whole idea of a trade secret is that you... wait for it... keep it secret. Not
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Re: Not sure why this is illegal (Score:2)
Don't tell your new boss the secrets, no fraud (Score:4, Insightful)
Employees can do a couple of things to avoid a criminal (and unethical) act when they go to work for a competitor:
Before leaving, don't artificially access or store secrets that you don't already know. Especially, don't FRAUDULENTLY gain access to secrets that aren't part of your job requirements.
Don't tell your new company secrets from your old company. What is a secret? Basically, it's anything the old company makes an effort to keep confidential.
If you do reveal secrets, some people at the new company might like that, and some more insightful people may recognize that means you'll still THEIR secrets to the next company, so you can't be trusted. Sometimes it might make sense to say something like "I take my job here seriously and would never reveal our secrets to a competitor. It wouldn't be right for me to break confidentiality of my former employer, just like I'd never violate your trust."
For myself, I like to learn new things, expanding my knowledge and experience with each job. For that reason, I'm unlikely to ever go work for a direct competitor. Instead, I'll move from working on the security of Rackspace's network to a new job working on making sure the F-35 doesn't get hacked. I'll expand my knowledge, and since it's not a direct competitor, trade secrets from my old job won't be much of an issue.
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Write 'I don't agree' (somewhat legibly) on the confidentiality agreement/non-disclosure/non-compete signature line and hand it across the table. They NEVER check.
The contents of my brain are my property. The main problem aren't genuine 'trade secrets', it's that employers want to define completely standard approaches like 'iterative processes' as theirs. If you sign, you've agreed to that, they have shysters on staff, you can't afford to fight it.
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The contents of my brain are my property. The main problem aren't genuine 'trade secrets', it's that employers want to define completely standard approaches like 'iterative processes' as theirs. If you sign, you've agreed to that, they have shysters on staff, you can't afford to fight it.
I guess you should link to some instances of past employees being sued for disclosing things like "iterative processes" if you want us to get all hot and bothered about this.
Write 'I don't agree' (somewhat legibly) on the confidentiality agreement/non-disclosure/non-compete signature line and hand it across the table. They NEVER check.
Or, you could just not accept the contract and work somewhere else instead of trying to trick your prospective employer into hiring you.
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I've actually had an employer try and claim an algorithm right out of 'art of computer programming', in writing, as an explicitly listed 'trade secret'. I laughed at them.
Sure, I could find another contract, but after 3 months HR will come by with a 'packet' for me to sign...Best bet is just to forget about it and don't return it at all. HR is clueless, use it to your advantage. If they're clueful enough to realize your file is lite, that's when you sign 'I don't agree'.
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You're too stupid to be a boss. WTF are you doing speaking of such things? Are you 14?
Deniability is important, some things are just never said.
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> it's unreasonable to suggest that a person in one company who gets hired by another would ... refuse to pass that information
Remind me to never hire you. Or trust you in any way - as a friend, co-worker, etc. You might fit in well at one of the Clinton organizations, though. Anyway, you can think the law is unreasonable, but that doesn't change what the law is.
> Ie rank and file should not expect to change jobs to master their skill. They should expect to be a jack of all trades and probably a maste
Those are not secrets (Score:2)
Nope, as I said, we're talking about trade secrets.
I provided the link to the definition.
Did your old company teach you how to read?
Just for fun, I'm going to make a guess - you went to public school in California or Washington state, didn't you?
Working for a competitor is not a problem (Score:2)
If this case succeeds, it will cause serious problems, because people quit and go work for competitors all the time And when they do, they know things like business plans, financials, etc. So this will essentially mean it's impossible to go work for a competitor. Not good.
Working for a competitor is not a problem, you still have an advantage. General public knowledge, improved general skills, etc will still make you a better job candidate. There is no cause for hysteria, this has been worked out in the legal system for decades now. Just do not mention information that the company hides from public view. Anything learned from public sources is OK to use, but cite those public sources to cover your ass. You being a better programmer for a lower power embedded environment is fi
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Here's the federal criminal statute (Score:5, Informative)
This is the relevant criminal law, on the federal side:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/us... [cornell.edu]
The definition of Trade Secret is:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/de... [cornell.edu]
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Hint: 'Accidently' posting any 'trade secrets' to the net before quitting renders them 'not secret', but watch the audit trails. Do it from the PHBs desk.
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As always, best bet is: Don't get caught.
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Prison is full of those people that got caught and were totally sure they wouldn't.
I've met some of them. They're sure they won't get caught the next time. They were caught again.
I know what they are (Score:2)
Interesting word choice (Score:2)
> We do prosecute copyright though, but just because we do doesn't mean we should.
I find it interesting you said "prosecute", rather than saying it shouldn't be a crime. I would say that we should prosecute large-scale criminal activity, especially criminal enterprises - crime for money. If you think it should be perfectly illegal to run a company ripping off other people's work, say that. It doesn't make sense to say "it's a crime, well not really, it's never prosecuted".
> Any more than we should pr
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Its illegal because the right person knows the right person or paid off the right person to get this case made. If the same thing happened to someone who wasn't friends with the right person, they'd be laughed out of the office.
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Duh, the only thing cops do for most people is fill out a form so you can make a claim with your insurance. They are USELESS.
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Cruelly, the bribe flow into the Clinton charity went to 0 right when she has time for it. It's almost looks like she was selling influence, but we all know that's unpossible.
"Stealing"? (Score:5, Funny)
If I could have a dollar for every time an "insightful" post on Slashdot — since the times of Napster [slashdot.org] — lectured the audience, that it is not theft, if the victim still has his copy of whatever is allegedly "stolen"...
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And, they'd still all be legally wrong in the US
https://www.upcounsel.com/inte... [upcounsel.com]
https://www.legalmatch.com/law... [legalmatch.com]
from wikipedia: the Economic Espionage Act of 1996 (18 U.S.C. 1831–1839), which makes the theft or misappropriation of a trade secret a federal crime.
lumper/splitter butter churn (Score:2)
This happens to be roughly the same distinction as the one between murder and attempted murder.
An industrious 12-year-old with a nickel-a-week allowance can easily "steal" $500,000 in a year, as the aggrieved prefer to frame it. And then they try to collect on the counterfactual $
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s/degenerates to/degenerates into/
Also, by counterfactual in nature, I mean that estimating out-of-pocket damages requires manufacturing a hypothesis about how someone might have behaved differently, leading to a different remunerative outcome, had the "theft" not occurred.
s/someone/world and dog/ if you've got Hollywood balls (and then collect a government tariff attached to blank media just in case).
What am I missing (Score:1)
If Jawbone went out of business, doesn't that make all their confidentiality agreements null and void? If the agreement was with a company that no longer exists, how can anyone sue them for violating it?
Acts occurred 2 years prior. Murder charge after d (Score:5, Insightful)
The acts in the indictment occurred in 2015.
Can one be charged with a crime after the victim is gone?
Every murder case ever says yes.
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If the agreement was with a company that no longer exists, how can anyone sue them for violating it?
This is not about "suing". This is about people being charged with CRIMES. If I murder someone, should I be able to say "It doesn't matter because, hey, they are dead"?
Criminalizing IP disputes may be stupid, but that is what is happening here.
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If Jawbone went out of business, doesn't that make all their confidentiality agreements null and void? If the agreement was with a company that no longer exists, how can anyone sue them for violating it?
Somebody is most likely still trying to get some money from the IP owned by Jawbone to help pay back creditors and stock holders.
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for fitbit? (Score:5, Funny)
imagine having to steal another company's secrets and commit crimes just to make THAT
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Neither Device Actually Works? (Score:2)
Why is this even an issue much less a civil or criminal one? Neither device successfully does what it claims to, so what actual damages are being done?
Still selling (Score:1)
Jawbone is out of business and amazon is still selling the jawbone units. Jawbone.com site is no longer online.
Sad really. The jawbone app & interface was way better than fitbit's.