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The Courts United States

Judge Backs Parents, Saying Their 30-Year-Old Son Must Move Out (npr.org) 419

Posted by EditorDavid from the failure-to-launch dept.
"Attention geeks living in their parents' basements!" writes PolygamousRanchKid , sharing this story from NPR: The promise of adventure didn't do it. Neither did the lure of independence, or the weight of his 30 years. Instead, it took a judge to pry Michael Rotondo from his parents' home. The couple won an eviction order against their son, after a judge argued with Rotondo for 30 minutes. "I don't see why they can't just, you know, wait a little bit for me to leave the house," Rotondo told Donald Greenwood, a justice on the Onondaga County Supreme Court...

Christina and Mark Rotondo resorted to legal action after a series of notes to their son (starting on Feb. 2) failed to get him to move out of their home in Camillus, New York, a town west of Syracuse. Those notes followed discussions that began last October. The notes to Michael Rotondo ranged from orders to leave and encouragement to get a job, to offers of more than $1,000 and help in finding a place... The notes escalated into a formally worded notice for Rotondo to leave that set a 30-day deadline -- which lapsed on March 15...

In a legal filing cited by CNYCentral, Rotondo said that in the eight years he has lived at his parents' house, he "has never been expected to contribute to household expenses, or assisted with chores and the maintenance of the premises," and that those conditions are simply part of an informal agreement. When he was in his early 20s, Rotondo briefly lived on his own, but he moved back in with his parents after losing a job...

The case is being seen as an extreme example of a growing trend. As NPR reported in 2016, a Pew study found that, "For the first time in more than 130 years, Americans ages 18-34 are more likely to live with their parents than in any other living situation."
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Judge Backs Parents, Saying Their 30-Year-Old Son Must Move Out More

Judge Backs Parents, Saying Their 30-Year-Old Son Must Move Out

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  • Not News For Nerds (Score:5, Insightful)

    by NicknameUnavailable ( 4134147 ) on Sunday May 27, 2018 @03:41AM (#56681726)
    How did this even make it into the firehose?

    • Re:Not News For Nerds (Score:5, Funny)

      by gijoel ( 628142 ) on Sunday May 27, 2018 @03:48AM (#56681744)
      You mustn't leave your parents basement very often.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by zm ( 257549 )

      Yeah.. listen.. clean your room, sort yourself out. And pet a cat if you see one on the street.

    • If there is a story that belongs on /., it's this one

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by arth1 ( 260657 )

        If there is a story that belongs on /., it's this one

        Perhaps back when it was news.

        I'm getting rather tired of the fourth-generation blog reposts making it to the headlines here, a long time afterwards. I think anything that references a blog or other news aggregator and not the primary source needs to be weeded out of the Firehose with extreme prejudice.

  • Home ownership, along with car ownership, is a meme designed to keep the economy going in the post-WW2 era.
    For most of human history families stayed together over the course of the centuries, farming the same land over and over again. Move where? Why? People bred for the purpose of having more hands to help farm the land and someone to take care of them when they were too old and sick for manual labor.
    All of the world's problems stem from the fact that human nature hasn't changed while 20th century Western

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by vix86 ( 592763 )

      The anomaly to me is house appreciation. I was telling a friend, who recently bought a house, how I thought it was weird that everyone [in the US] considers houses to be things that gain value [within reason]. When I look around at everything else though, cars, computers, phones, furniture, appliances; everything loses its value. Some things hold value better, such as a luxury limited edition car, but even those things probably aren't going to resell for more than you paid for it. But houses? Houses/Condos

      • Re:Home ownership is an anomaly (Score:5, Interesting)

        by JaredOfEuropa ( 526365 ) on Sunday May 27, 2018 @06:04AM (#56682058) Journal
        People refrain from knocking down their house and rebuild not because of the value of the house, but because of the cost: in most cases, renovation is cheaper. In addition many countries have zoning laws that say you can't just knock down a house or build something new without a permit, and getting those permits can be a costly affair in itself.

        What appreciates in value isn't the pile of bricks, it is ownership of a piece of land with the right to build a house there and live on it. The actual edifice does depreciate: people pay less for older houses that need a lot of work, the difference is approximately the cost of doing the necessary repairs and renovations.

      • The anomaly to me is house appreciation. I was telling a friend, who recently bought a house, how I thought it was weird that everyone [in the US] considers houses to be things that gain value [within reason].

        [...]

        I specified the US, because I know in Japan that most people view houses and condos as places with depreciating value, and its not uncommon for people to simply knock an old house down and rebuild on the land.

        That's the thing there: at a minimum the land is the thing that appreciates in value beca

      • Re:Home ownership is an anomaly (Score:4, Interesting)

        by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Sunday May 27, 2018 @06:57AM (#56682212)

        But houses? Houses/Condos and the property are generally expected to keep their value and go up.

        Houses need to be maintained to keep their value. Their value goes up with population increases. This isn't a given, but it is a general trend in growing population centres where demand constantly outstrips supply.

        A house (and its land) is like any asset. The difference between it and the ones you list is supply demand, finite life expectancy, and useful life. If you buy a house now, don't live in it, don't touch it. Except it to be worth nothing in 100 years as it will likely need to be bulldozed for being a health hazard. On the flip side if you bought a 1960s era Ferrari 250 GTO for $18000 ($150k in today's money) and it's in perfect condition then you made more of a profit than you would have on any house given these things sell for in excess of $30m now.

        But back to houses. When I bought a house in Australia in a city many years ago, armchair investors though I was mad. The city was growing at a slow rate, the house values were stagnant and we were on the back of a financial crisis. They all suggested I invest in mining towns, and gave anecdotes of 10-20% value growth per year. Well fast forward to 2018, my own house value is up 20% above inflation from 10 years ago, and those get rich quickers found out what happens when you hold on to a short term investment too long and all filed for bankruptcy.

        Houses in cities, in popular countries, with a good economy are like bluechip stocks. They aren't immune from going down in value but unless the entire country goes down the toilet they are generally expected to inflate in value with the economy if looked after.

        • A house (and its land) is like any asset. The difference between it and the ones you list is supply demand, finite life expectancy, and useful life. If you buy a house now, don't live in it, don't touch it. Except it to be worth nothing in 100 years as it will likely need to be bulldozed for being a health hazard.

          It won't even take twenty years, and even THAT timeline assumes nobody breaks into it and loots it for copper.

          On the flip side if you bought a 1960s era Ferrari 250 GTO for $18000 ($150k in today's money) and it's in perfect condition then you made more of a profit than you would have on any house given these things sell for in excess of $30m now.

          That won't take even TEN years to degrade into a leaking, rusting pile if you don't keep it in a cool, dry place and start it once a month.

      • Like a car, the structure on the land doesn't go up in value - It's why 75-year-old-houses get torn down.

        It's the land under the structure that goes up in value - Because it's a finite resource.

    • For most of human history families stayed together over the course of the centuries, farming the same land over and over again.

      No, that's for a few thousand years of human history. For the majority of human history there was no farming.

      All of the world's problems stem from the fact that human nature hasn't changed while 20th century Western Civilization tried to shoehorn it into what best suited Capitalism.

      There were plenty of problems before the 20th century.

      • You must be a developer.

      • No, that's for a few thousand years of human history. For the majority of human history there was no farming.

        For the majority of human nomadism, they didn't have writing (which developed from counting systems used by people who had turned agrarian and had stuff to count) so they didn't record history.

        • For the majority of human nomadism, they didn't have writing (which developed from counting systems used by people who had turned agrarian and had stuff to count) so they didn't record history.

          That's an exceptionally pedantic (and not correct, because the word "history" has multiple related definitions) reading of it and only illustrates the fallacy of the original.

          If there's about writing that made humans magicaly more suited to non nomadic lifestyles then there's equally something about technology that ma

          • Writing makes life better for everyone who has access to it. Capitalism makes life better for a handful of people, and worse for everyone else. Sometimes it seems like it makes things better, until you consider its unsustainability.

    • That's driven more by the inability to get more land and build your own home than a preference to stick it out together. Not to mention most of their farms were in the single digit acreage so it made no sense to waste space building another residence for sleeping when the sun is down. Or the fact that cooking individually takes more time and wastes resources.

      If you look in any era, rich families didn't do this. Heck, way back, a 13 year old would be married off, made a duke, and given a small homestead.

      If y

  • Missing the big picture (Score:5, Interesting)

    by fafalone ( 633739 ) on Sunday May 27, 2018 @04:07AM (#56681798)
    Parents have been increasingly hovering and micromanaging, being extremely overprotective. Kids are denied the freedom that used to be normal. Mostly because of fears of that ultra rare stranger abduction, or some other low probability tragedy. They think well what's the downside, what if it did happen? Well this is the downside. Adult age children unprepared to deal with real life. Problems like here, and others like anxiety, are increasing in lock step with lockdown of kids. You trade the tiny tiny chance of kidnapping or something for a very good chance of stunted development and mental health issues.
    And worse, it's practically required, because busybodies think any kid walking down the street alone is a police matter, and CPS misses kids being beaten and goes after parents who let their kid walk to the park. Support laws like Utah just passed, clarifying that the normal freedom most of us over 35 had isn't neglect.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by SumDog ( 466607 )

      You're assuming a lot about this particular situation. Maybe the kid and parents are both just pieces of shit. I mean you kinda have to be to get a court order to throw your kid out.

      • Re:Missing the big picture (Score:4, Insightful)

        by sjames ( 1099 ) on Sunday May 27, 2018 @05:32AM (#56681996) Homepage Journal

        And likewise to be 30, living with your parents (with your child) and contributing NOTHING to the household. Not money, not housework, not yard work, NOTHING.

        Of course, that may also go back to the parents.

        • living with your parents (with your child)

          His child wasn't living with them. His child was living with the child's mother.

        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          by drinkypoo ( 153816 )

          Of course, that may also go back to the parents.

          "may"? Bullshit. DOES. 100% DOES. It was their responsibility to raise an independent adult, and they failed. Barring that, they could have at least raised him to help, but they clearly didn't do that either.

          Now society has to pay, and they've just gotten off the hook. They should have to keep him, since they made him.

      • Maybe the kid and parents are both just pieces of shit.

        FTFA:

        The Post and Daily Mail also note that Rotondo has another legal case running: He's suing Best Buy, claiming that he was wrongly fired for refusing to work on Saturdays.

        Hmmm . . .

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by alexhs ( 877055 )

      While the assessment of the situation sounds accurate, it lacks the context of why this could happen.

      Just a century ago, it was more likely that a couple got half a dozen of kids, half of them reaching adulthood (losing the other mainly to diseases). So the worth of a kid was much less than it is to parents today.

      Also, at the time just as of today, in big families, there's no way parents can keep an eye on all of the kids, so it's commonplace to relieve a part of the duty to the elders (such as in tlhIngan'

  • Nothing new... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by XSportSeeker ( 4641865 ) on Sunday May 27, 2018 @05:59AM (#56682042)

    ...apart from the lawsuit I guess, and with it broader awareness.

    Anime watchers and those familiar with modern japanese society will already have heard of the terms: NEET, hikikomori.
    But as with many problems in japanese society that often gets picked by international media as some weird thing that must only happen in Japan, this is not by far a japanese exclusive phenomena.
    https://think.iafor.org/reclus... [iafor.org]

    International media often exploit, fetishize, and even mock Japan for having these weird cultural things, often painting a picture as if it was commonplace there when it really isn't... but the truth behind this mocking of foreign countries is that more often than not, these things not only do exist back at home, but often it's worse than in Japan - only it's taboo, overlooked by press, and not selected as a subject for exposure.

    So yeah... this guy is probably one of these cases. Surprise, bad stuff that happens in other societies is probably happening in sacred US of A too. And probably, a lawsuit is not the best way to deal with it too. Not that I'm ignoring the tribulation that the parents must've gone through already, but hikikomori are often unstable and should be seeking treatment and re-education, not being booted out of home.

    There is a high potential of this being a case of throwing gas into the fire. Optimistic scenario, sure, the guy will leave home, get a job and reform himself. But people in the US really should not ignore the potential of someone mentally unstable becoming enraged with the situation and turning into yet another nightmare scenario that we all know pretty well by now having multiple cases a year. He could take his parents money, buy a gun, a go shoot some people plus himself.

    • And probably, a lawsuit is not the best way to deal with it too. Not that I'm ignoring the tribulation that the parents must've gone through already

      They asked, they demanded, they threatened, and even offered money, but he refused - the lawsuit was not their first choice.

  • One of the best things my mother ... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Qbertino ( 265505 ) <moiraNO@SPAMmodparlor.com> on Sunday May 27, 2018 @07:25AM (#56682310)

    ... did was kick me out when I was 19, 5 months after I was out of high school.

    "You're learning a job. I don't care what. Wanna do performing arts? Ok, fine by me, you've got the talent. But you're moving out by end of summer. Get those applications rolling." -My mom, paraphrased.

    I was doing performing arts 6 months later, in a big town 300 km away. She drove me there, in her Citroen Charleston De Cheveau. She told me a few years back that she had to pull over and cry for while on the way back, but she knew it was the very best thing to do. ... Smart lady, my mom is.

    Best move ever.
    6 months in I felt better than ever before in my life, doing my own thing my own way. These days I'm a man with a grown daughter traveling South America for 9 months flat at the age of 20 and have a SO I love and respect, that fucks like a pornstar. ... All because I was pushed on to the trail that made me become a grown man. ...
      Love you, Mom.

  • The problem (Score:3)

    by Subm ( 79417 ) on Sunday May 27, 2018 @08:14AM (#56682422)

    The problem isn't that he's overstaying or that they raised him poorly. Pushing the child out of the nest is a transition many families have to go through. You might say he should have learned or they should have taught him earlier, but that's a matter of degree.

    The problem is that they have so few skills to resolve the conflict that it reached the courts and media.

  • Man-boy was born into the wrong culture (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Perhaps he would be happier living with Italian parents?

    My parents raised all 7 kids to be independent. We were expected to find our own travel methods for sports teams, pay for our college education, get a job ASAP. My mother was a little disappointed when most of us stopped coming home (or calling all the time). She said they raised us to be too independent. OTOH, none of us has needed to be bailed out by our parents from jail or financial issues. We plan for the worst and hope for the best.
    When I wen

  • Parents have to kick their adult children out of the house all the time. Most of them use much more sensible and less costly means. How about...changing the locks on the doors? That's just a couple hundred bucks.

    OF COURSE parents should do this sort of thing with plenty of warning, but it's quite effective.

    • Parents have to kick their adult children out of the house all the time. Most of them use much more sensible and less costly means. How about...changing the locks on the doors? That's just a couple hundred bucks.

      You can't do that, he lives there. You have to evict him. If you just change the locks on the house in which he lives, you're committing an illegal act.

      • Unless there is a formal, signed lease between you and the child, you don't need a formal, signed eviction notice to kick them out. At least, you don't need such in Texas. To sue, your adult child would need documentation showing that they had a right to live in your house.

        • Unless there is a formal, signed lease between you and the child, you don't need a formal, signed eviction notice to kick them out. At least, you don't need such in Texas.

          IANAL in TX or elsewhere, but I do not believe that you are correct [avvo.com]. Most lawyers seem to agree that eviction is necessary [avvo.com], and even the person who suggested just changing the locks double-answered and said "Or, you could do the eviction route." and that answer is condoned by more other lawyers than his first answers. From a hilariously brief glance at that lawyer's reference on the issue, it seems to me that a three-day notice is required to evict, absent any other agreement. Do you have some citation whic

  • Teaching children respect first (Score:3)

    by Tony Isaac ( 1301187 ) on Sunday May 27, 2018 @10:17AM (#56682774) Homepage

    Too many parents these days want to be a "friend" to their children. That's all good, but respect is even more important. If you've taught them respect and hard work, you probably won't have to kick them out in the first place. But if you do have to, you won't have to go to court to make it happen!

    Two young men in my own family had to be shown the door at some point. There was no court case. And later, they both thanked their parents.

    • Being your child's friend isn't inherently a bad thing - if you consider that being a friend isn't the same as being an enabler. My son, now 33, was my best buddy from minute 0. That didn't mean that I allowed him to run amok, or rewarded bad behavior because I didn't want to hurt his feelings and tell him "No." Screw that - if he needed discipline, he got it. He went on to become a standout scholar-athlete in high school, started his own family, and runs a successful business. He's a child of which I

  • https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/3k4kaw/the-millennial-who-wouldnt-move-out-of-his-parents-house-is-tragic-actually [vice.com]

    As someone who has had to deal with this on a personal basis, I kinda feel sorry for him. BUT, he needs to GET A LIFE.

    I had to help with strongly encouraging my parents to kick one of my aunts out of their house, after a few years of her making their life a living nightmare. One of those next-to-useless nebbish people, still a virgin when she died.

    One gets the feeling that "this will not en

  • for all their problems and it's typically the previous generations fault.

    I am really tired of hearing how hard the current generation has it, how this is unprecedented and how it's everyone elses fault.

    As a solid Gen X type, I can assure you the " Silver Spoon " life you think existed for everyone but the Millennial generation is a laughable idea.

    Growing up poor ( those rich Baby Boomers right ? :| ), my only route to decent job skills were with the military as college was something only the kids from wealt

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