Reporter Regrets Letting Amazon's Delivery People Into His House (washingtonpost.com) 114
An anonymous reader writes:
Washington Post reporter Geoffrey A. Fowler describes his short-lived experience with "Amazon Key", a $250 smart lock system with a security camera that grants Amazon's delivery people access to your home. The lock sounds "like R2-D2 with constipation," and at one point it actually jammed (though his persistent delivery person eventually got it working properly). The unlocking of the door triggers a live video feed of the delivery -- which is also stored in a private archive online -- plus an alert to your phone -- and the Post's reporter writes that "The biggest downsides to the experience haven't been the strangers -- it's been Amazon."
They missed their delivery windows four out of eight times, and though the packages all arrived eventually, all four were late by a least a day. But his larger issue is that Amazon "wants to draw you further into an all-Amazon world... Now Amazon wants to literally own your door, so it can push not just packages but also services that come through it, like handymen, dog-walkers, groceries, you name it." His ultimate question? "Who's really being locked in?"
The Post's reporter notes that Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos owns the Washington Post, "but I review all tech the same." He did identify some advantages to the $250 smart lock system -- the door can now also be unlocked with the Amazon Key app, and he can even share that access with his friends by giving them a special access code.
But he also notes that security researchers discovered a way to freeze Amazon's security camera, potentially allowing a rogue delivery person to lurk in your house. And all things considered, it was apparently all too creepy. "After two weeks, my family voted to remove the Amazon Key smart lock and take down the camera."
They missed their delivery windows four out of eight times, and though the packages all arrived eventually, all four were late by a least a day. But his larger issue is that Amazon "wants to draw you further into an all-Amazon world... Now Amazon wants to literally own your door, so it can push not just packages but also services that come through it, like handymen, dog-walkers, groceries, you name it." His ultimate question? "Who's really being locked in?"
The Post's reporter notes that Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos owns the Washington Post, "but I review all tech the same." He did identify some advantages to the $250 smart lock system -- the door can now also be unlocked with the Amazon Key app, and he can even share that access with his friends by giving them a special access code.
But he also notes that security researchers discovered a way to freeze Amazon's security camera, potentially allowing a rogue delivery person to lurk in your house. And all things considered, it was apparently all too creepy. "After two weeks, my family voted to remove the Amazon Key smart lock and take down the camera."
Seems dumb but need is real (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Seems dumb but need is real (Score:5, Insightful)
You sound petulant over it. 'Signature required' means someone has to physically be there to sign for the package. It doesn't mean you can just sign a slip of paper. Anyone could do that. If you're having consistent problems with delivery then perhaps you *should* start having them delivered directly to the deop where you can pick them up at your leisure.
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Probably meant 'depot'.
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I did, but some people have nothing to add to conversations other than pedantry (not you).
Re:Seems dumb but need is real (Score:4, Insightful)
Solution: Put a close-to-lock box on your front porch. Then go to Amazon, click on "track this order" and then click on the signature waiver.
Re:Seems dumb but need is real (Score:4, Interesting)
That's the best solution. One apartment complex where I stayed had this system. There were a communal set of lock boxes. If postal service had to deliver a parcel, they put in the lock box and the key in your locked mailbox. Then when you used the communal lockbox, the key could be inserted but only removed by the mailperson.
Unfortunately, in the UK, this won't work. One home owner installed his own close-to-lock box. Couriers from various companies then started using it without his permission as a "safe place" for other people to collect their parcel deliveries. He had to remove the lock box due to the hassle of strangers coming round and hammering on his door wanting their items back.
Leave-with-a-neighbor doesn't work either. I had my items delivered to an elderly lady who then guessed who the items were for and gave them to another neighbor who then went on holiday for two weeks.
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Or '...will incur a $100 handling fee payable before delivery.' Or whatever price you would consider an acceptable compensation for your inconvenience. If somebody complains, tell them 'policy is policy'.
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Unfortunately, in the UK, this won't work. One home owner installed his own close-to-lock box. Couriers from various companies then started using it without his permission as a "safe place" for other people to collect their parcel deliveries. He had to remove the lock box due to the hassle of strangers coming round and hammering on his door wanting their items back.
Technological solution: install an array of boxes for the others, charge rent
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Leave-with-a-neighbor doesn't work either. I had my items delivered to an elderly lady who then guessed who the items were for and gave them to another neighbor who then went on holiday for two weeks.
That sounds like a very VERY specific failure mechanism for leave-with-a-neighbour. In general this system actually works very well nearly all the time.
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I sometimes have packages delivered to work. A lot of companies allow this, especially around holiday times, because it means fewer workers are off standing in line at trying to receive or send packages.
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If you need to make sure the package is secure you can have it shipped to an Amazon Locker.
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Local pick-up (Score:3)
Tell them to leave it at a local pick-up. I do that and just pick it up on the way home.
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I don't drive, so when this happened to me it was extremely frustrating. To make matters worse, there was a UPS store close by that was willing to accept delivery and hold it for me, but the USP terminal wasn't willing to ship it to them, even for extra payment. And there was no transit to where the UPS terminal was. And how long would I need to pay a taxi to sit there waiting?
I nearly said "fuck that package, I'll do without" without even knowing what was in it. (It was a present from a relative.) For
Stupid Article (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: Stupid Article (Score:1)
Translation: 'I have no self awareness and concern for my privacy. I just want my stuff, I ordered it and it should magically appear on my kitchen table'
Implication: You are immature, narcissist or an idiot. Please visit the AirBnB down the street with the hidden cameras for validation of your condition.
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And paranoia in the case of Amazon is well deserved.
Well, duh (Score:1)
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...what possibly could go wrong ???
In this case, nothing. The reporter just doesn't like the concept of in-home delivery, signed up for it anyway, and then wrote an article about how he doesn't like the concept because it was "creepy", even though in practice it worked out fine.
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Re: Well, duh (Score:2)
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The hotel maid enters the hotel's bedroom, which you are simply renting for a day or so. You don't have all your possessions in that room, the hallway oustide that room, and the rooms next to or underneath that room. It is nothing like your own home/apartment as far as privacy goes.
Re: Well, duh (Score:2)
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Even in that case, the room still belongs to the hotel, and maids are going to be entering the room every day.
Re: Well, duh (Score:2)
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Looking at your comments above, I'm not sure you know what your point is. And I certainly don't know why you have such animosity about it. Have a good day.
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letting a person into your private residence really does feel scummy.
My housekeeper comes twice a month while I am at work, and there is no camera watching her except at the entry. I have private documents in my home office, so I lock the door to that room, and she doesn't go in there. It felt "creepy" for the first month, then I got used to it.
I have no need for Amazon's in-home delivery, but if I used it, I am sure I would get over the "creepiness" factor very quickly.
This reporter may feel uncomfortable about someone coming into his home, but his personal feelings are n
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what would be better for some would be (Score:3)
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then they could just go to the postoffice with a photo ID or driver's licence proving who they are and then pick up the package at their convenience
As long as "at your convenience" means between the hours of 8;30am and 5:30pm. If you are someone who actually has to work for a living, that's probably not your definition of "convenient".
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As long as "at your convenience" means between the hours of 8;30am and 5:30pm.
Nope. Most Amazon Locker [amazon.com] locations are accessible 24/7.
The closest to my house is inside a gas station convenience store that never closes.
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Why don't UPS and Fedex deliver early or late, from 6:00am to 8:00am or 6:00pm to 9pm? Then we would have no need for stupid keys or using some other store to pick up. Internet delivery has been around for almost 30 years and they can't get even this simple detail right.
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1) Freight doesn't get there that early. Typically our freight gets in-station at 6:45am, plus add sort time of an hour and a half and we are leaving the building around 8:00-8:15am. You can pay for "First Overnight" service, which rides in its own separate can, can have a commitment time as early as 8:00am if you are really close to the station however the cost starts at ~$60 for an envelope.
2) Delivery drivers are people too, with families and lives. Additionally, once it g
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Not exactly. Hard to believe, but there are areas of the USA where Google Maps does not work and GPS data is unreliable. It's hard thinking that being a "tech" site and all, but until I saw it with my own eyes trying to run routes blind as a swing... it's true. Additionally -- Even if you know the area, you still have to find the house and considering how people have complained about a box being SLID (not thrown) across their porch... I don't think people would take too kindly to some driver goin
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They can. You just have to pay for the service. Because the drivers are human and want to get their shift done and return home to their families, so the extended hours option means paying someone overtime for it.
Oh, and before you say "but w
Make Lemonade Was what would be better for some (Score:2)
> >so it can push not just packages but also services that come through it, like handymen, dog-walkers, groceries, you name it
>no way in hell am i going to let amazon or anyone
Here's a new take. If more people are being granted access to the domicile, why not have amazon provide the people that you really want in - security, housekeepers, cooks, babysitters, plumbers, Jehovah's witnesses (well maybe not that one), etc. You might not be able to afford to give any one of these full time work, but if
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> >so it can push not just packages but also services that come through it, like handymen, dog-walkers, groceries, you name it
>no way in hell am i going to let amazon or anyone
Here's a new take. If more people are being granted access to the domicile, why not have amazon provide the people that you really want in - security, housekeepers, cooks, babysitters, plumbers, Jehovah's witnesses (well maybe not that one),
Why wouldn't I want my relatives to come in?
People need this (Score:2)
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Re: People need this (Score:1)
But not everyone lives in Portland, you insensitive clod!
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People don't need this. It's the years 2017, so how did we manage to survive so long without this service before?
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and cops without warrants.
Entering your home without a warrant is a crime. Having a key does not make it magically legal for them to enter.
There are only something like 10,000 key variations for a GM pickup. There are millions of them on the road. Does that make it legal for me to just get in any truck my key happens to fit in? That's the logic you just expressed. They existence of a key changes nothing. A warrant is still needed.
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I'm sorry, but when I routinely read reports of police getting away with murder, don't expect me to believe they always pay attention to the requirement of a warrant.
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Mailinator [mailinator.com] needs a .edu domain.
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I hate that amazon is trying to trick people into getting prime. They offer a "click here for FREE SHIPPING!" button several times during the checkout procedure. My mother was scammed into this, she had a Prime account but had no idea what a Prime account was or that her FREE SHIPPING was costing money. This is a problem for older generations who are much less able to understand the implications of what's happening on the internet (such as who you should or shouldn't give your credit card or bank account n
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Presumably Amazon makes more on the student Prime than they lose on people creating new .edu accounts. It's up to them to decide how much effort they put into making sure people don't take advantage of them.
Amazon BOX (Score:2)
Better solution would be a secure Bin or Box that you place outside possibly next to your Mailbox or Combined with it.
I have WAY fewer issues giving the access code to a box outside.
Re: Amazon BOX (Score:2)
The device is a replacement for a lock on a house door. But maybe the can have a "Amazon Pad Lock" product that does this.
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His complaint about late packages is very valid.
... except it is orthogonal to "in-home delivery". Late packages are a problem regardless of whether the delivery is placed in the home or left on the porch.
Hackneyed tendencious review (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm writting this as someone who would NEVER install a service like this, but it's quite clear that Geoffrey, the author of the piece, had already decided what to think of the service previous to reviewing it - very bad practice.
Out of all his complaints, the majority of it is due to early adopter grievances or unrelated crap.
For instance, he complains about not getting the delivery on the day promised. This isn't due to Amazon Key, it's due to the delivery service itself being late. Would installing Key change the speed in which packages would come? Doesn't sound like so.
On another part he talks about his door not being appropriate, having trouble with installation, and the door almost locking delivery service outside. Honestly, I think this is something people should expect - not all doors are made equal, not all of them are in a good enough shape to install electronic locks, and not all of them will work perfectly outright - this is a problem most electronic key installations could have.
Then he goes on a complete tirade about walled gardens and whatnot which should be quite obvious to anyone purchasing something like this - of course you are increasing the likelihood of getting Amazon stuff if you are buying a system from them to get access into your home. Much like the Amazon Dash Buttons and whatnot, it's meant to make it more convenient to get stuff from them. More importantly though, since you can share the key to others, this should stop no one from getting services from another company and just sending a temporary key to them instead.
Anyways, like I said, I'd never get something like this even if it was available for me, because the ammount of convenience it'd give me is not enough to counterweight privacy worries plus the fact that I'd never install IoT devices in my home without very strong justification - it's yet another thing connected to the Internet that will obviously need constant updates, maintenance and whatnot.
But there are legitimate reasons to have something like this, and they were mildly covered in the piece. Homes with people with limited mobility. People who are never at home and already had purchases stolen from their front porches. People who were already hiding keys in places for delivery people to get in because they have no other option.
I don't think anyone has to like this thing, quite the opposite. It's a system I'd only recommend for people who has had an unsolvable problem regarding product delivery for years. But the review was kinda crap.
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He was probably assigned to do it, and, yes, had decided it was a bad idea before it was assigned to him...but he didn't want to turn down the assignment.
Creep (Score:2)
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Yes, or your coworkers might. Other folks at my office have personal packages delivered to the office, but they come to our office rather than the building they are in, and the constant flow can be rather disruptive at times.
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Before I retired I routinely had packages delivered to me at work. We had about 100 people working there, so not large, but also not small.
LOLOLOL (Score:2)
Seriously, who in their right mind thinks it's okay to hang your home's security on an IoT device operated by random strangers who are allowed to enter your home?
This is nothing more than a disaster waiting to happen. Wait until the first burglaries, robberies, home invasions, rapes, and murders result from this brain-dead idea.
Will Amazon issue a press release that says, "Whoops, sorry about that- we didn't mean to let your whole family be murdered by a random nutjob who spoofed the access code to your hom
Solution (Score:2)
Let Amazon place a sturdy 2'x3' steel locker somewhere on your property. This won't solve all of the unattended delivery issues but it will prevent random fuckers from being able spoof an access code and enter your home while you're not there.
Stupid, Lying, Click-Bait Headline (Score:1)
He regrets the fact that some of Amazon's delivery attempt windows during this busy season didn't line up with actual time-at-the-door. He regrets that Amazon's supported hardware doesn't yet interact well with some other systems/apps/devices he'd like to use to police his front door (like, he can't YET easily let his dog walker use an app to gain entrance unless that dog walker uses Amazon to cashier their dog walking service, etc).
To the contrary, he thinks
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So don't sign up for it. (Score:2)
It's a service. Someone people need it. Some don't. If it's not for you, that's fine. Stop whining.
I love this brilliant insight "wants to draw you further into an all-Amazon world..." Well no shit Sherlock. Name one megacompany that doesn't want to draw you further into their world.
Better to build your own amazon storage locker. (Score:2)
The article itself is crap.
The whole reason for this is neighborhoods where people will steal things from your porch which fortunately I have no problem with and also weather for people not fortunate enough to live in southern California. I do like the amazon storage lockers at the 7-11 down the street and use it simply for a certain level of privacy. At the house I currently reside in if I really wanted I could build a bolted down locker of my own while using amazons keybox. I can also imagine using such
But what if you ARE home? (Score:4, Funny)
I'm late to this party and I hope my question isn't redundant. (I'm asking for a friend)
What happens when you ARE home during the delivery? You might be relaxing in front of the big screen enjoying some righteous pron and getting your wrist exercise for the day. You might be doing your cosplay version of Princess Leia. You might be entertaining the stud next door through the back door. Or you might just be lying in your upchuck in a drunken stupor on the floor.
Not too worried about a delivery when I'm *not* home.
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I'm late to this party and I hope my question isn't redundant. (I'm asking for a friend)
What happens when you ARE home during the delivery? You might be relaxing in front of the big screen enjoying some righteous pron and getting your wrist exercise for the day. You might be doing your cosplay version of Princess Leia. You might be entertaining the stud next door through the back door. Or you might just be lying in your upchuck in a drunken stupor on the floor.
Not too worried about a delivery when I'm *not* home.
Every time I've had a party, there were party crashers because I had great parties and people could see what was happening.
The trailer park people down the street had parties that few would go to, unless tied up or roofied, because people could see what was happening.
The answer to your "what would happen" question is in there.
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Urm, 2 points for unpleasant-scenario imagination, 0 points for not thinking to deadbolt your doors when home...
It is a really.... (Score:1)
Outdated architecture (Score:2)