Nearly a Third of Millennials Say They'd Rather Own Bitcoin Than Stocks (bloomberg.com) 312
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Bloomberg: A survey by venture capital firm Blockchain Capital found that about 30 percent of those in the 18-to-34 age range would rather own $1,000 worth of Bitcoin than $1,000 of government bonds or stocks. The study of more than 2,000 people found that 42 percent of millennials are at least somewhat familiar with bitcoin, compared with 15 percent among those ages 65 and up. Bitcoin rose more than 6 percent Wednesday to as much as $7,545, helping to push the value of the total cryptocurrency market above $200 billion for the first time, according to CoinMarketcap. The digital asset has soared more than 600 percent this year, compared with gains of 15 percent for the S&P 500 Index -- which might explain millennials' attraction.
Then I'm buying Stocks! (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't run with the herd if you want to make real money..
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So you'd rather play 'The Hat,' would you? Hmmm.
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Um... Running with the herd is a very effective way to make money.
You just have to stop running before most of the heard when you get near the cliff. :-)
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Don't run with the herd if you want to make real money.
I get the no risk / no reward sentiment, but... animals that break away from their herds are often the ones killed and eaten first.
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And sometimes the herd is heading over a cliff where they all die... It's all in how you look at it.
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Shush this is slashdot 2017. He will get mod points. You wont. Math be damned.
And this... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Buy high, sell low, boys.
It worked for Tony Montana!
Oh, wait a minute. It didn't work. He died in a hail of bullets. But he was as high as a kite when it happened.
Re:And this... (Score:5, Insightful)
And this is how the unknowing are separated from their wealth. Buy high, sell low, boys.
Note the source of the survey... from the article:
A survey by venture capital firm Blockchain Capital found that about 30 percent of those in the 18-to-34 age range would rather own $1,000 worth of Bitcoin than $1,000 of government bonds or stocks. The study of more than 2,000 people found that 42 percent of millennials are at least somewhat familiar with bitcoin, compared with 15 percent among those ages 65 and up.
The true suckers are going to be those buying Bitcoin polling sponsored by mainstream media (CNN and/or FoxNews) finds 30% of people would rather have bitcoin than bonds or stocks.
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The upcoming bitcoin kilonova may restimulate interest in investing in the real economy.
Re: And this... (Score:2)
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In my time, I've seen this happen with gold (1970s/1980s), the tech bubble (1990s), the housing bubble (2000s), and oil (2010s). A lot of people fl
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In my time, I've seen this happen with gold (1970s/1980s)
Would you say current gold owners are "holding the bag" ?
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Inflation adjusted price is still significantly lower than peak from around 40 years ago. I would say that's a pretty resounding yes.
That's only true for a rather narrow peak in the year 1980, right at the end of the bull run. Most current gold owners did not buy their gold right in that peak. Most of the gold was already owned before that, and people just rode the waves.
Re:And this... (Score:5, Informative)
No, it will happen like all bubbles do - it pops when people start cashing out. It's worse with Bitcoin because its very low transaction rate means it can be extra volatile.
Even more volatile will be the exchanges - if someone were to convert more than a few bitcoins, will exchanges have the liquidity to perform the exchange? If you have say, 100 bitcoin and it reaches $10,000/BTC, you're looking at a million bucks. Will the exchange you use have the liquidity to cash it?
This could easily lead to a run as people trying to cash out run into exchanges unable to cash out - they simply run out of cash.
That's the likely scenario that will crash it - someone starts selling, exchanges stop being able to exchange and everyone is locked into bitcoins because there is no liquidity to convert it. The exchange rate falls sharply because exchanges with money will realize they will run out of it fast as the thunderous crowd of people trying to cash out come knocking.
This is the hard way to learn why we regulate (Score:5, Insightful)
BitCoin are unregulated investment instruments. They can't keep climbing indefinitely and some people will lose their shirts.
Not you of course. No, you're special.
The most dangerous words in finance are 'this time is different' and no, no it's not different. Investments are regulated so that people are protected from the Bernie Madoffs of the world and it's necessary to do so.
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Investments are regulated so that people are protected from the Bernie Madoffs of the world and it's necessary to do so.
So, you're using a real-world example of some shit that actually recently happened to say that "investments are regulated" so said thing can't happen? I think I'm lost.
Re:This is the hard way to learn why we regulate (Score:5, Insightful)
Investments are regulated so that people are protected from the Bernie Madoffs of the world and it's necessary to do so.
So, you're using a real-world example of some shit that actually recently happened to say that "investments are regulated" so said thing can't happen? I think I'm lost.
Bernie Madoff went to jail for what he did, and he'll probably die there.
Regulations may not prevent shit from happening. But when you have regulations, you can make shit happen to people who violate them. Thus providing an incentive to the would-be Madoffs of the finance world to behave themselves.
Re:This is the hard way to learn why we regulate (Score:5, Insightful)
Bernie Madoff engaged in the classic con. For a con to work, you need a greedy mark. Every one of his victims thought they could get something for nothing. They thought they could get unrealistic returns.
This sounds a lot like Bitcoin really.
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BitCoin are unregulated investment instruments. They can't keep climbing indefinitely and some people will lose their shirts.
Wow, now that you mention it, I've never heard of a single regulated investment instrument where anything like that happened.
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They can keep climbing in definitely... I guess the heat death of the universe will eventually put a stop to ... everything, but before that, there is no reason the value of bitcoin can't keep going up. I don't think it can keep going up at the rate it's at, but even if it just plateaus no one need lose their shirt.
If it were true that nothing can keep going up in value indefinitely, then gold would have become worthless by now.
As long as there is limited supply of something, and no cap on the amount of p
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Gold doesn't require the energy output of a small country to maintain it. It's not possible to plateau unless it can deliver value consistently above this maintenance cost, which I very much doubt it can do. Not when competing coins can do it cheaper.
The value of cryptocurrencies depends on the security. If you make it cheaper to maintain it, it will also be cheaper to attack it.
With the growth of solar and wind, there will be plenty of cheap surplus energy, so I'm not worried about the "waste".
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Gold doesn't require the energy output of a small country to maintain it. It's not possible to plateau unless it can deliver value consistently above this maintenance cost, which I very much doubt it can do. Not when competing coins can do it cheaper.
The value of cryptocurrencies depends on the security. If you make it cheaper to maintain it, it will also be cheaper to attack it.
So you are saying that bitcoin gains its security from obscurity?
You are wrong BTW. Security and computing power requirements aren't related.
With the growth of solar and wind, there will be plenty of cheap surplus energy, so I'm not worried about the "waste".
Yes because they are magically extracted from the ether. Even ignoring the production costs the use of that energy isn't free and will essentially waste resources that could be used for something useful instead.
here's a better question... (Score:2)
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Blockchain Capital? Like, whatever! (Score:2)
I'd love to have been a fly on the wall at the meeting where they
came up with that name.
But I've, like, watched a few episodes of W1A or something and I suspect it's totally a close substitute.
Too young to know (Score:3, Insightful)
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Most would remember the dot-com bubble at least.
Using the definition of millennials as those born 1981-1997, the end of the bubble as 2001 and assuming a level birth-rate and sufficient understanding of the world to remember the bubble at 10 years:
Percentage of millennials remembering the bubble = percentage of millennials being 10 or older in 2001 = percentage being born in or before 1991
= (1991-1981)/(1997-1981) = 10/16 = 0.625
62.5 % should remember at least one bubble. Given the above assumptions hold of
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perhaps your an old fart who doesn't understand where the future is headed.
Old fart who understands both weighing in here.
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Slashdot is for retired has-been technies who dont want anything to change.
What they are missing; the thing they dont want to learn is that there is a technological shift happening that is going to change their world. Slashdot has been pooh-pooh ing bitcoin since with was under a dollar, and they will continue to do so as bitcoin or somthing like is assimilates the whole world around them.
I only read bitcoin threads on slashdot to laugh at them. Theyll be even saltier the next 10x price hike.
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perhaps your an old fart who doesn't understand where the future is headed.
I am not sure there is a nice future for people who invest on a single thing.
IANAB (Score:2)
Do it right. Invest in blockchain companies and their technologies. Not currency.
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
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The run is nearly over and everyone and their dog are now jumping in
Most posts on this topic right here are negative (as they've been for years), and they get moderated as insightful. Doesn't seem like everybody is jumping in right now.
Causality (Score:2)
> The digital asset has soared more than 600 percent this year, compared with gains of 15 percent for the S&P 500 Index -- which might explain millennials' attraction.
I wonder about the causality in this sentence...
In other news (Score:5, Insightful)
Investing EULA (Score:3)
"The study of more than 2,000 people found that 42 percent of millennials are at least somewhat familiar with bitcoin..."
2,000 people didn't read anything and just clicked "I Agree".
Yup, there it is, on page 37 of the Investing 101 EULA...the definition of volatility...
Millennials (Score:3)
A third of millennials would rather own bitcoin than stocks.
Forty-three percent of millennials prefer socialism to capitalism.
Discuss.
https://thefederalist.com/2017... [thefederalist.com]
https://legalinsurrection.com/... [legalinsurrection.com]
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Pretty much. I could throw $1000 into the fire pit right now. I would end up sleeping on the couch for the next year, but it's entirely doable for me.
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The alt-right is an infinitesimal minority. They're the vanguard with all the old racists behind them. Look at how many people show up to these alt-right rallies. Usually in the dozens, if that. They've got Bannon (old) and Mercer (old) behind them, but they don't even have the numbers to muster a baseball roster. Wherever they go, millennials who are opposed to them vastly outnumber them.
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Millenials are, upon the whole, the worst fucking generation ever birthed by mankind.
What does that say about the generation that raised them?
Basics first (Score:2)
In other words (Score:2)
At least a third of millennials are financially illiterate.
"Bitcoin" is a specific asset. "Stocks" are a class of asset. You want your assets diversified so that if something terribly wrong is found with one of them (e.g., a cryptographic flaw in Bitcoin) you are not wiped out.
If you were invested in a diverse portfolio on Black Tuesday-- the day the stock market crashed setting off the Great Depression -- you'd have been find even if your portfolio consisted entirely of stocks. It was people who put all
And in completely unrelated news (Score:2)
Nearly a third of millennials are complete idiots.
In related news (Score:5, Insightful)
100% of millennials have never been personally affected by a commodity bubble bursting.
Sometimes people have to learn lessons the hard way.
Qualification? (Score:2)
I wonder how qualified those "millennials" were.
If they were not enough, the original question could turn to: do you prefer to own a pasta drainer or a smartphone?
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They both suck... (Score:2)
Bitcoin has some chance at catching on, but not until major retailers start using it. I mean, the money we use right now isn't
sad (Score:2)
This is exactly why it should be banned immediately before it causes real damage and deaths.
Where's the diversification? (Score:2)
Meanwhile, two thirds of them... (Score:2)
Two thirds of them think having tribal tattoos and piercings designed to take a ship's hawser make them original and creative.
I wonder what the degree of overlap is.
Re: Not that strange (Score:3, Funny)
Millennials in tech are also a scam, so they deserve each other.
Or Beany Babies (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Or Beany Babies (Score:5, Insightful)
When they were kids, they were the generation that would rather own Beany Babies than stocks. Since the bottom dropped out of the Beany Baby bubble, they are looking for something else.
1. They were kids
2. The ones that "invested" in Beanie Babies were adults at the time and not Millennials
Re: Or Beany Babies (Score:5, Insightful)
Except that Bitcoin is a first of it's kind decentralized trustless way to transfer value and has the most concentrated network effect of all Cryptocurrencies. It's a technological marvel. It can replace money, bank accounts, stock certificates, contracts.. it's revolutionary, deflationary and its still not widely dispersed which means increase in value. The millennials are not dumb here.
Do you know why inflation is built into currencies? Why should I buy something today if my money will be worth more tomorrow? Why would I produce a good today if it will be cheaper to produce it tomorrow? Deflation encourages saving, discourages spending and reduces the velocity of money. It's not that the millennials are dumb, it's that they don't fully understand money and investing.
Re:Not that strange (Score:5, Insightful)
This. They see the stock market as being controlled by Wall Street; they can't get in on the game, so they turn towards another game that lets them do nothing while they imagine they're accruing value somehow. Nobody ever went broke offering people something for nothing.
I was originally going with "It's because they're stupid. That's why. That's why everybody does everything." - Homer Simpson
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What's to control? It's pretty easy. Buy low and sell high. Barring that, you can just shove money in an index fund over the long term. There are also plenty of individual stocks to gamble on.
Bitcoin is just one single thing.
Even in the currency market there are a ton to speculate on.
Bitcoin screams "single point of failure".
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How am I supposed to buy low in the stock market? The Federal Reserve will bail out the banks no matter what. That's the only reason the market has been scraping all-time highs for the past couple of years.
Stocks will never be affordable again, at least not until the dollar itself collapses. At which point we'll all have bigger problems than buying stocks.
If you had gone on a buying spree in 2008 you would have made quite a bit of money since then. You think the market will never go down again? Don't worry, we have not entered a time when the stock market goes up forever. Yes, the Fed will step in to bail out the banks and other large institutions. So, you invest with that in mind. If you are in the market when the Fed steps in, they bail you out too.
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Or in the case of Bitcoin, nothing for something.
This mathematical calculation is worth $7500! And they say the value of fiat currency is based on nothing...
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Every other bitcoin holders who desperately need it to keep going up in price.
Re:Not that strange (Score:5, Insightful)
Bitcoin has essentially nothing in common with stocks. Stocks are ownership in a real world corporation that, ideally, pays regular dividends to share holders. The corporation has actual assets. Bitcoin is just numbers on a computer. It is effectively a currency, and while currency trading does occur, the currency markets are a great way to lose money. Bitcoin has no intrinsic value, but rather maintains its value by the utility it offers and the number of people who hold Bitcoin. This makes it very similar to any fiat currency, actually. At least investing in metals gives you something with intrinsic value.
But, whatever. Millennials can be as stupid as they want, it just means better returns for me. You do you, I've studied how rich people build and maintain their wealth, and I'm going to do that.
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There is a perception out there that Wall Street has lost touch with the idea that out there beyond the Hudson there are factories which make things, retailers who sell them and IT people whose data installations keep it all coordinated. Instead the glamour boys of Wall Street are the faceless people who dream up derivative financial "products" that have replaced analysis of the real economy with manipulating paper.
Re:Not that strange (Score:5, Funny)
Bitcoin is just numbers on a computer.
All bits, no coin.
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What about non-voting, non-dividend paying shares? Google class C's are non-dividend-paying and non-voting [nytimes.com] and are going for over a thousand bucks a pop. [nasdaq.com] I suppose with a stock, if you sell it at a loss, you can write it off on your taxes. [investopedia.com] I doubt you can do that with bitcoin. Just need a Congresscritter to update the law and that will change (if th
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If google decided to close up shop, they'd get a share of the money from the liquidation sale.
If bitcoin closes up shop, nobody gets anything.
That's the basic difference between a stock, and a non-secured virtual currency.
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With the difference that bitcoin can't close up shop. The "bitcoin" as an entity doesn't actually exist.
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Is there any historical, real world example of this happening? When a company liquidates, typically its stock has gone to zero.
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And I want to clarify: you're suggesting that when a company liquidates, the value of the company's assets will divvied up among all the ownership stakes, Class A-C stockholders and debtors. There is however a hierarchy of payoff, with bondholders being highest, and even in bonds, there are tiers of bonds, and the lower tiers take a loss at a minimum. Stock holders typically don't get anything, and class C holders are the very bottom of the hierarchy to get paid. And if the company would have enough money
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Yes, there are cases where the shareholders aren't wiped out. American Airlines. Even Enron - sort of.
Also, a company doesn't have to liquidate for non-voting shares to realize value. The Ma Bell breakup, for example. If something like that were to happen to Google, then owners of non-voting, non dividend-paying shares would get something out of the breakup.
The point being that those shares are not as vaporous as bitcoin.
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Bitcoin has no intrinsic value, but rather maintains its value by the utility it offers and the number of people who hold Bitcoin. This makes it very similar to any fiat currency, actually. At least investing in metals gives you something with intrinsic value.
As bitcoin does offer a service, I think the main threat to bitcoin is competing cryptocurrencies. Not surprisingly, this is the same threat to other fiat currencies which is why most countries outlaw competing currencies and many even outlaw or restrict precious metals for the same reason. On the other hand, there are no laws preventing someone from creating hundred or even thousands of competing cryptocurrencies but cryptocurrencies do benefit from having a sufficiently large mining pool so it seems like
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Bitcoin has zero advantage or market hold compared to Litecoin or any other currency.
Good luck trying to find ONE online shop out there which accepts any cryptocurrency other than Bitcoin and Ethereum, with the latter being accepted by only a handful of shops out there.
I would say that's a huge advantage,
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Bitcoin has no intrinsic value, but rather maintains its value by the utility it offers
So it has value. Nobody cares whether value is "intrinsic", however you want to define that.
This makes it very similar to any fiat currency
Except for the part where people outside of our control can decide to print more fiat currency, and lowering the value of our savings accounts.
At least investing in metals gives you something with intrinsic value.
While gold has industrial applications, we'd only need to mine 10% of the current amount to fulfill the needs of industry. Where's the intrinsic value of the other 90% ?
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Now let's address items of no intrinsic value.
- Stocks. In theory they are ownership of a real world corporation.
* But first off... the value of the share and the value
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Untrue. The market may set a price that veers away from the "actual" value of the share, but the value of the share definitely has a lot to do with the value of the company.
But the company does owe you a share of the company for the stock share
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If you're going to boil it down to "investing in metals gives you something with intrinsic metals", they don't. The only thing that has true intrinsic value is food and shelter.
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Re:Not that strange (Score:5, Insightful)
HFT is a scam, but it has little impact on people over the long term. If you're holding a stock for a number of years, the difference between what you make and what you would have made without the HFT is tiny.
HFT ought to be illegal because it uses future prices to steal a few cents here and there from a large number of people. But, individually, small investors aren't going to notice the difference as those couple cents are nothing compared with what you make over the long term.
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....There are people in the world who don't have the patience to gain the "education" necessary to be a successful stock investor....
Fixed that for you. The information used by many to enabvle them to do business in this sort of activity is not education as most of us understand the word.It seems that, along with knowledge, many people have had to learn how to disable ethical sensetivities and enable the sociopathic tendencies that we see. That's mpore training than learning.
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Bitcoin and stocks have something in common. Their price has absolutely no connection to reality. Since Bitcoin is new and tech-y, younger people feel more comfortable with it, even though it's all a complete scam, just like the stock market.
Although... owning stock is owning a part of a company that (usually) has an tangible value. Owning bitcoin is owing bits and no coin. I imagine bitcoin is more of a scam than stocks, but their apparently never ending rise in value seems easy and attractive, but what goes up eventually comes down.
Youngsters are used to simply raiding their parents fridge, but there is actually no free lunch.
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I think that the less regulated the value of something is, the more it is connected to reality.
If people panic and drive the price down abruptly, that's reality right there. Artificially maintaining the value of something is not reality at all.
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If you're going to get scammed by someone, then why not pick the one that the old farts in the establishment dislike?
Let's be honest, you don't need to be a millenial to think that the establishment is pretty crooked. Once you stop believing in it, then as they saying goes, you'll believe in anything - and here's where Bitcoin got in.
Every young generation thinks they're going to change the world. The truth is though, we only really get to make it change course by a small amount. If all these millenials cau
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....but over the long term the money you get out is related to how well the business is doing.....
No. It is related to how well the stock is doing. This is very different. Let me list a few words and phrases
derivatives
hostile takeover
stock market crash
insider trading
overvalued
stock swap
and so on. If I know these phrases, someone who knows about stock trading will know of many other examples of the disconnect between stocks&shares and companies who actually do something. The fact that there are so many people here who think that cryptocurrencies are less "real" than the global stock scam is a sa
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Re:It's clear (Score:5, Interesting)
Yet, they think they are smarter if you talk to them. I remember when I was dumb too, so I guess I cannot complain that much about the young skulls full of mush not listening to my sage advice born from the wisdom of experiences brought about by both success and failures. They will learn, the hard way, just like I did.
Fredrick Brooks was right, there is no silver bullet.
Investing in BitCoin? Yep, it's a big fat ugly bubble and folks will be slaughtered when it pops. Some will get rich, but only some, and at the expense of others but how can ANYTHING that has literally *nothing* to back it but the perception that it is worth something going to be a good investment in the long term? The Dot.Com bust was this, except, in some cases there actually was the POSSIBLITY of a profit for that stock, albeit a remote one. A BitCoin is only a collection of data bytes that some machines made up somewhere, and that's all it will ever be. That somebody is willing to trade you something of value for it is all that gives it value.
My advice? Speculate in BitCoin if you like, but don't treat it like an "investment" and absolutely DO NOT bet money on it you cannot afford to lose. And Remember, the folks who can play the BitCoin market faster or better will make all the money, so if you are serious about this, work out a way to be the guy that makes money, if not, stick to things with intrinsic value.
Now you may get off my lawn please...
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Maybe gold is not worth anything and never was. It seems to have been an ok investment overall for most of recorded human history.
Sticking to investing only in things with intrinsic value shields you from one way in which your investment can fail. (e.g. Everyone deciding that beanie babies are not cool anymore), but there are plenty of ways that investments in intrinsically valuable things can go horribly wrong. Houses have lots of intrinsic value. People still got destroyed over house purchases.
I don't
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My point is that BitCoin has zero intrinsic value and owning one gives you nothing except the perceived market value. You own nothing but a pile of digital bytes. Gold, on the other hand, DOES have value, is something you can hold in your hand, is used for a lot of industrial processes AND has a perceived market value. Stocks have a "book value" where the holder of the share actually owns a part of the company and possibly gets a share of the profits.
My second point is that if you insist on trading in BitC
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DeBeers manipulate the market to push up the value. If something happens to them, it'll plummet.
Re:Isn't owning stocks basically worthless? (Score:4, Insightful)
Tech stocks? Sure, but there are actually a lot of traditional stocks that actually pay dividends. Banks, and the traditional industrial set come to mind. They're not sexy, but they are one of the reasons why Warren Buffet is as wealthy as he is.
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I'd thought the money was in trading them, not owning them. There's a book called "Where are the Customer's Yachts" that talks about all this.
Investing in the stock market is, if nothing else, a hedge against inflation. Historically, the stock market has outperformed the inflation rate by a significant margin. That's not to say other investments aren't good (like bonds, real estate, etc.)
You may not get stinking rich by investing in the stock market, but with careful planning, you can get a return that helps you to buy other things that matter, such as a home, an education, the odd vacation, a comfortable retirement, and so on.
And yes, if you wan
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I'd thought the money was in trading them, not owning them. There's a book called "Where are the Customer's Yachts" that talks about all this.
Active traders who get lucky make big money. Those who don't lose big money. For the typical investor it's better to buy a diverse basket, anchored by blue chips, and just accept the 10-12% average annual return -- with occasional periods of much better results and occasional periods of much worse results.
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How is Bitcoin "prone to theft"? Don't leave your coins on any exchange, don't use an online wallet, don't tell your secret key to anyone.
It's not that hard.
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Very accurate. They are just familiar with the name and are enamored with it.
I'd also suspect these people have zero interest in saving for retirement.
scalability will be needed replaces all currencies (Score:2)
scalability will be needed for it to replaces all currencies. And when mining stop makeing new coins and lot's of miners drop out leaving to it costing more to do the backed transactions then they payed for them?
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The (silent) majority don't.