Congress Seeks To Outlaw Cyber Intel Sharing With Russia (onthewire.io) 179
Trailrunner7 shares a report from On the Wire: A group of House Democrats has introduced a bill that would formalize a policy of the United States not sharing cyber intelligence with Russia. The proposed law is a direct response to comments President Donald Trump made earlier this week after he met with Russian President Vladimir Putin. After the meeting, Trump said on Twitter that he and Putin had discussed forming an "impenetrable Cyber Security unit" to prevent future attacks, including election hacking. The idea was roundly criticized by security and foreign policy experts and within a few hours Trump walked it back, saying it was just an idea and couldn't actually happen. But some legislators are not taking the idea of information sharing with Russia as a hypothetical. On Wednesday, Rep. Ted Lieu (D-Calif.), Rep. Brendan Boyle (D-Pa.), and Rep. Ruben Gallego (D-Ariz.) introduced the No Cyber Cooperation With Russia Act to ensure that the U.S. doesn't hand over any cybersecurity intelligence on attacks or vulnerabilities to Moscow. Recent attacks such as the NotPetya malware outbreak have been linked to Russia, as have the various attacks surrounding the 2016 presidential election. "When the Russians get their hands on cyber intelligence, they exploit it -- as they did last month with the NotPetya malware attack targeting Ukraine and the West. It is a sad state of affairs when Congress needs to prohibit this type of information sharing with an adversary, but since we apparently do, I am proud to introduce the No Cyber Cooperation with Russia Act with my friends Brendan Boyle and Ruben Gallego. I urge my colleagues across the aisle to join us in sending a clear message that Congress will not stand for this proposal to undermine U.S. national security," Lieu said in a statement.
Oh please! Really? (Score:2, Informative)
Are people actually falling for this shit? And you thought Trump was the bottom of the barrel? You poor souls!
Re: Oh please! Really? (Score:2, Insightful)
Russians spying on the US? Preposterous.
Next you'll be telling me there are Russians pretending to be Americans on Slashdot!
Re: Oh please! Really? (Score:5, Insightful)
Nobody else besides Trump (and Putin I guess) is suggesting that their government should make a joint "cybersecurity" unit between their gov't and Russia to help prevent future cyber-attacks on their elections.
It was, as usual, something that popped into Trumps head (or perhaps was suggested by Putin), and Trump was mentally unable to figure out, by himself, that it was a bad idea.
We've elected a stupid, ignorant man simply because he is "different" and was on tv.
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Curbing bad behavior from a country is more efficient if you involve the government of that country. Not that there was bad behavior to begin with. This is all bluster from the Democrats that are trying to stay relevant.
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We've elected a stupid, ignorant man simply because he is "different" and was on tv.
You have to admit that watching the previous Powers That Be get all worked up over this is quite entertaining. As bad as he is (can not be certain until it is all over), it can not be worse than the directed slide into concentrated power that a normal candidate would have continued.
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Next thing you know they will enter into cooperative agreements to curb nuclear proliferation and reduce the likelihood of nuclear war!!!!
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Yeah, maybe we should make some kind of joint task force, where we have the Russians help us redesign our nuclear program, so they can't hack into it.
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Nobody else besides Trump (and Putin I guess) is suggesting that their government should make a joint "cybersecurity" unit between their gov't and Russia to help prevent future cyber-attacks on their elections.
It was, as usual, something that popped into Trumps head (or perhaps was suggested by Putin), and Trump was mentally unable to figure out, by himself, that it was a bad idea.
We've elected a stupid, ignorant man simply because he is "different" and was on tv.
Actually, from my perspective, Trump is right on this one. I have been told that Russia insists that all government software be open source (compilable from source to the executable), and that it can be inspected for cyber weaknesses. The USA lives on closed source, except for a few of us using Linux. Somehow I believe that Russia is more secure than are we, and that the cyber government hacking is probably for the same reasons.
Certainly, attacking terrorist encryption algorithms and related hacking woul
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What actions has Trump taken that shows any favoritism towards Russia. Remove economic sanctions? No. Returned seized Russian assets in the US. No. Shown any reluctance to conduct military operations in Syria? No.
The US can ignore Russia because Russia is not a super power. The only "power" the Russians have ever had is a large nuclear arsenal which is thoroughly contained by the US arsenal. And yes that also takes US nuclear out of the picture. The state of California has a higher GDP than Russia. And the
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The weird thing is the lawyer Trump Jr. met entered the country without a Visa. She needed special dispensation to enter the US because she was legally barred from entering the US due to sanctions. Her dispensation was approved by Loretta Lynch and signed off on by the Obama administration. The lawyer also has a documented history of working on Democratic party campaigns as a registered foreign agent. She was not registered as a foreign agent when she talked with Trump Jr.
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So what?
Jr, Kushner and Manafort, going into the meeting, all were expecting to meet a agent for the Russian government, to get dirt on Hillary from the agent, and jumped at chance for this meeting.
Why would it matter if she is a registered foreign agent, or she was or was not an agent for the Russian government.
This meeting is something that 2-3 weeks ago, The Donald would say is utterly ridiculous, that his son and son-in-law are both patriots that would never meet with a russian agent like this. Hell, b
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Hello, new goalposts.
It's gone from two weeks ago, being completely ridiculous that anyone in the Trump campaign having any kind of meeting with Russians of a non-trivial nature to yeah, we did, but it wasn't illegal.
I'm sure if they continue investigating and find that the Trump campaign did work together with the Russian gov't and Putin was sending Donald bags of cash, you'll go "Well, so what. Anything to prevent Clinton from being elected."
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Again, totally different goalposts.
This "collusion" is not about a President interacting with/negotiating/talking with foreign governments/leaders.
This "collusion" is about one or more private citizens working with a foreign gov't to possibly corrupt an election.
Two weeks ago: "Me and my campaign never did this, and would never do this. It's completely ridiculous."
Now: "Um, it's not illegal, my son is a fine person, everyone would do this, it's completely normal"
And then Trumps ridiculous tweet today (June
Re: Oh please! Really? (Score:5, Informative)
On the one hand: France (oldest ally), the UK (special relationship), and Canada (friend with benefits), all democracies and members of NATO.
On the other hand: Russia, a major geopolitical adversary for most of the last century, a kleptocratic dictatorship run by an ex-KGB lieutenant who fiercely and violently crushes any non-token political opposition.
Can't see why we'd favor one over the other.
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On the one hand: France (oldest ally), the UK (special relationship), and Canada (friend with benefits), all democracies and members of NATO.
On the other hand: Russia(...)
Where do Saudi Arabia and Israel fit here?
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That's a bold claim. What makes you assume George Bush's will hasn't resulted in at least one of his staff taking out a journalist before? In the US you have to be more subtle than Russia but plausible deniability is easy. You have policies against such and then set standards that are impossible to meet without violating those policies. You simultaneously cultivate the most despicable practices while having absolute deniability and cultivate the most discrete execution of those policies because you'll act on any violation you can't pretend not to have noticed. Putin can just order what he wants.
But then I'm not actually in Russia, I'm in the US, if nothing the corruption and bias in the media has become painstakingly obvious and overt since at least the Sanders Clinton primary showdown so it is unlikely the news we get with regard to Russia is accurate and what we "know" about Russia is likely largely propaganda.
I second your comments. CNN does hardly any reporting, they waste hour after hour repeating the same crap for each announcer. And the topic for 23 hours / day is always the same drivel.
The other outlets (ABC, NBC, FOX, NPR etc are a little better). I now watch BBC news about the USA for balanced reporting and for good use of the English vocabulary.
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...that we know of.
Yeah, that's an argument.
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tfw you can't tell if someone is making fun of Russia paranoia or if he really thinks people he meets online who disagree with him are secretly paid Russian shills.
When you've reached the "My opinion is so indisputably correct that anyone who disagrees with me must be a foreign agent trying to sabotage the country." stage, it's long past time to step out of your bubble for a while. (And while you're at it, you might also consider seeing a psychiatrist...)
Re: Oh please! Really? (Score:1)
Notice the sly way there are Russians pretending to be Americans on Slashdot becomes anyone who disagrees with me must be a foreign agent. You're obviously keen to discredit the idea.
Notice also the unwarranted +2 Insightful.
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Now, now, the housing situation in Russia isn't THAT bad.
Re: Oh please! Really? (Score:2)
Re: Oh please! Really? (Score:4, Insightful)
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"the president treasonously colludes with foreign powers" - Ironic that you mention cognitive dissonance then post this. Do you know what treason means? Isn't it the job of the president to have discussions with foreign nations? Can you point to any evidence of wrongdoing in any discussion? Might want to take a step back and reconsider that cognitive dissonance comment.
You don't collude with a hostile foreign power against an American adversary. You just don't. At the very least, you call the FBI when you hear this sort of thing.
I don't know that Trump is actually involved in any of this, but some of his close advisers are accused of it.
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No, but there are Russians pretending to be Americans on TV.
No Cyber Cooperation (Score:3, Interesting)
Equation Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Stuxnet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Want some more Magic Lantern with vendor cooperation?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Thats why a global understanding of what is trying to enter, stay on and communicate from systems and networks is so vital.
Malware is often very different to normal OS functions and the more nations and skilled people looking for such changes the better.
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There are 10 kinds of people on Slashdot. Which kind are you? https://www.cdreimer.com/slash [cdreimer.com]...
Please use my bit.ly link for this URL. Makes it easier to count the number of Slashdot readers clicking on it. Thanks! ;)
http://bit.ly/2u7aDZt [bit.ly]
I see a problem with this? (Score:5, Interesting)
Does this mean they can prosecute Open Source programmers and security experts for publishing Security vulnerabilities to Bugzilla, or LinuxSecurity.com?
Re:I see a problem with this? (Score:4, Informative)
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I'm a Junior maintainer for Mageia. I know we have people who happen to be from Russia registered in the Bugzilla system. Americans too. I'm worried this might affect Linux Distributions with an International scope resulting in US Contributors being charged with a Crime because sudo CVE-2017-1000367 gets published in Debian, Mageia Picks it up as MGASA-2017-0207, the US DOJ then says: US Maintainers of Mageia are in violation of this law because by posting the bug to be patched in sudo means the Russians k
Re: I see a problem with this? (Score:1, Insightful)
Are you doing this work as a US government employee? No? Then don't worry about it. Yes? Is your work classified? No? Then don't worry about it. Yes? You are an idiot.
Re:I see a problem with this? (Score:4, Interesting)
That's even assuming that this ever gets passed though, and I can't imagine that happening.
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It doesn't matter what a law is initially for, it will get used differently over time.
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What you say is probably true for the motives of these legislators. But it's a slippery slope. Eventually, some open source programmer with exotic tendencies might rub some prosecutor the wrong way. Without violating any other crime, or perhaps committing some minor infraction, the prosecutor might use this law to inflate the charges and get an unfair plea bargain.
Re:I see a problem with this? (Score:5, Insightful)
Probably not for a different reason. This is clever political posturing designed to generate headlines (hey, mission accomplished!) in the wake of Trump's faux pas. There's not a snowflake's chance in hell this bill is going anywhere except to news aggregators. It won't affect us at all because it will never get passed into law. That's just political reality talking. Republicans control Congress right now, and Trump is the one who would have to sign this into law.
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In other words, this is all about Trump and will likely be written so as to effect the rest of us not at all.
Hm. Pretty much all laws start out targeting one thing and one thing only but then get expanded to be used in ways not originally declared.
Be careful of your dismissals when it comes to Laws.
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I bet you think cigarettes and alcohol are taxed for the public good,
It has that intended effect, yes.
the FDA approval process on new drugs is for public health,
Although far from perfect, it has that intended effect, yes. Strongly.
our runaway inflationary debt based currency helps the economy,
The inflation of the USA is not problematic, so something is wrong with your characterisation.
and that people can't kill people without automatic rifles.
Of course they can. Quit fighting that straw man, nobody is impressed. But of course mass killings are easier with more powerful weapons.
Stated intentions are rarely inline with actual intentions or practice. Most of the government is still corrupt, it's not going to be used against anyone who isn't easy pickings.
I agree that the government of the USA is worryingly corrupt, but now you are vastly exaggerating.
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Thank you, Reasonable Man, for injecting a little sanity when someone gets alarmist and over-cynical.
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Could a company in the US use that data directly to secure their networks more quickly?
Have to wait for another nation to republish that information and then act on that much later?
Or would a US company have to detect the same security issue on their own and then rediscover what was in public?
No direct use of any Russian security information or quoting the direct results
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Keep calm and blame Russia
We have always been at war with eur-russia
Summary is incorrect, (Score:4, Interesting)
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The bill is still a very bad idea, though. There are many areas of Internet security in which Russia and the US could and should peacefully cooperate.
Deliberately incorrect headline (Score:3, Insightful)
It isn't "Congress" which is trying this, it's a small group of the minority party. In fact, a small group even of the minority party. Basically nothing but gesture politics.
Why is this being covered as if it's real, again?
The only plausible answer is that it's BS click-bait.
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You would have seen my comment before but slashdot has modslapped me twice in 6 months.
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The bull is empty bullshit political theatre. Right there in the bill, the President of the US it to certify that the Russian government will not hack the US government but the US government is still fully entitled to hack the Russian government. Seriously how stupid to put that up, basically insanely crazy political theatre. Still the Ukraine bullshit, the US government hacked the Ukraine government and made it worse and now blame the Russian government. So the US can publicly admit to hacking the Ukraine
Smug (Score:4, Interesting)
> When the Russians get their hands on cyber intelligence, they exploit it
As opposed to Americans, who handle information in a way that benefit the greater good ? (/Sarcasm) (Do i really need to provide links ?)
Get off your moral high horse already. You don't want to cooperate with anyone, you want to do things that are in your own interests, and get whoever you can to support your own interests (read: spineless Europeans vassal states). Cooperating with Russia would undermine common American interests and hence it's not good for America, because the Russians, have their own interests.
Has nothing to do with the already stupidly boring narrative "Russians are Evil" that is constantly being rammed into minds of commoners through the popular media channels. By the way, if you going to talk evil, talk about your own politicians and foreign policies that turn at least one country to dust and cause 50 years of political instability in the region every ~ 10 years. I see more evil committed by USG than in Stalin's wildest dreams. You just pack it better, hollywood style, a polished turd for ready for people to eat up and feel better about themselves at next election.
Freakin' hypocrites, the lot of you.
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Have you looked at a map? Russia has a huge, indefensible border and not nearly enough troops to defend it. The European armies alone, without their pimp-master USA outnumber them 3:1.
Yet historically most armies entering Russia have been met with sound defeat. It's terrible place to try to conquer, and no one is interested in invading Russia.
Yaknow, maybe if we stopped fucking with them so hard they wouldn't be fucking with us. You think they just decided to be this way out of nowhere? For shits and giggles? America altered the result of Russia's 1996 election to keep that incompetent drunk Yeltsin in office
That's a pretty wild accusation to throw out. Extraordinary claims require even more extraordinary evidence.
As has become standard, it was the Russian oligarchs who became so rich in the 1990s, who opposed the Communist party candidate. They controlled most of the Russian media at that point and ran an advertising campaign that emphasized that Zyuga
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TIME magazine in 1996 bragging about how we interfered in the Russian election. [i.redd.it]
Just because something is an awful idea doesn't mean the Deep State won't try it. Look at what they did to Iraq, was that a good idea? And Egypt. And Libya. And Syria. And, and, and. They're experimenters, fiddlers. They like to mess with stuff. They're insulated from the consequences of their failures, so why not? It's not their kids dying out there.
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TIME magazine in 1996 bragging about how we interfered in the Russian election. [i.redd.it]
Advice? Is that the threshold for electoral interference? Well in that case no election is clean, of any candidate, in any country.
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Sigh, so more innuendo and blaming, and absolutely no fucking evidence.
What boggles my mind is that America has interfered in other countries, overthrown entire governments by funding and arming malcontents, and then helping them fight for "freedom". Syria is a perfect example. Look what state Libya is in after the "evil" Saddam was overthrown, it's a fucking shit hole now with warring factions, mass killings, raping and child soldiers. Way to go America, but at least now the
The need for FOSS intelligence tools (Score:2)
My idea from seven years ago:
""The need for FOSS intelligence tools for sensemaking etc."
http://web.archive.org/web/201... [archive.org]
"This suggestion is about how civilians could benefit by have access to the sorts of "sensemaking" tools the intelligence community (as well as corporations) aspire to have, in order to design more joyful, secure, and healthy civilian communities (including through creating a more sustainable and resilient open manufacturing infrastructure for such communities). It outlines (including at
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Norton isn't even in the same league as Kaspersky. That's like trying to outlaw a MLB team to give your son in the little league a leg up.
Terminally stupid (Score:1)
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Great rant, but none of that actually happened. Even CNN got caught agreeing there's no evidence to back any of it up. It's all based on "unnamed sources" that don't actually exist.
BTW, if we're going to enact laws to refuse to work with other nations, why not go after a country like Saudi Arabia which actually should be considered an enemy of the US and is a credible threat to western nations?
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It's kinda funny that's you're posting as AC.
Did you see the video with the guy from CNN saying it was a narrative, that there was no real evidence? Straight out of the horse's mouth. Did you see the New York Time's retraction?
Nothing came out of that meeting with the "Russian lawyer" which is probably why Jr didn't think to mention it. If I tell someone I bought a new car, I don't usually go on talking about the ones I didn't buy. He didn't collude with the Russian government, that's still a fact that
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He didn't meet with a Russian government official, he met with someone who happened to be Russian. He didn't have to disclose it.
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Yeah, fuck US intelligence agencies. You know who I believe over them? Vladimir Putin.
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The hilarious thing is that Bill Clinton was famous for his line "I feel your pain," talking openly and honestly about working class workers feeling the effects of the recession that was happening at the time.
Hillary Clinton, on the other hand? "We're going to put a lot of coal miners out of work!"
You'd think she could have talked to her husband about connecting with voters, but - nope!
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If I try to behave like the Fonz, it only makes me extra dorkier.
Hillary never had the televangelism gene. She couldn't channel Bill if she tried. You'd get about as far suggesting the average televangelist channel Richard Dawkins.
Most of her debate prep was spent mastering that ghastly almost amused-looking smile when Donald went off on one of his many ridiculous riffs. Unfortunately, her best shot at running Americ
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A lot of people thought she had plenty of charisma (not you obviously)
Even Hillary said (during a debate, I think), that she knows she just doesn't have the type of charisma that Bill had.
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Hillary Clinton, on the other hand? "We're going to put a lot of coal miners out of work!"
Another lie.
It's a common tactic -- give a line that someone actually said, but strip all context off of it so you can distort the actual meaning.
"let's reunite around policies that will bring jobs and opportunities to all these underserved poor communities. So for example, I'm the only candidate which has a policy about how to bring economic opportunity using clean renewable energy as the key into coal country. Because we're going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business, right? And w
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I agree! Liberal press! Liberal press! Liberal press! I mean, they're probably right, but... liberal press!
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I see little evidence that the Republicans are pro-Russian at all. Yes, Trump clearly is, but that hasn't translated into support from Congressional Republicans. Realpolitik means they can't usually come out and openly defy their own President (with the exception of McCain, who clearly stopped caring what his party thought a long time ago), but that doesn't translate into them being pro-Russian. At the moment they're trying to navigate the potential scandal in a way that doesn't sink their own electoral for
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Trump wasn't chosen because he's a useful idiot. Do you seriously think that Manasfort, Junior, Cohen, Strone, Kushner.... all of the people arround him knew, yet he didn't??? What did they tell him when they disappeared on trips to Moscow? Holidays in the Algarve??
Are you seriously going for the 'plausible deniability' angle? Because he saw all this surveillance information that we see now. Those emails didn't come as a surprise to him, he had them as part of the CIA surveillance package he was shown.
He even said that his only contact with Russians was through the Miss Universe pageant, and that he once sold a mansion to a Russian oligarch, despite most of his money from the 1990s (after he nearly went broke) came from Russians who would buy his condos as a way to launder money.
Weiner's Fail (Score:2)
The attack vector for russia and china is porn, has been for the last 12 or so years.
An interesting approach to legislation (Score:2)
Whenever Trump bursts out with another one of his brilliant ideas, immediately pass legislation to outlaw whatever it was he proposed. Yes, I can see some wisdom there.
fundraising (Score:5, Insightful)
Can we be honest with ourselves for a moment?
This is a fundraising bill. It is designed to look good on a letter sent to Democrats in a couple of districts in hopes that they will send money to the reelection campaigns of the bill's sponsors.
It is functionally identical to the "questions" asked by Democrats during confirmation or committee hearings, or the statements made by Democrats during bill debates. The questions aren't seeking information, the statements aren't swaying votes, and this "bill" isn't intended to ever become a law.
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I'm curious why you've decided to single out democrats for this behavior, especially after half a decade of republicans trying to pass bills that repeal obamacare, only to be handed the keys to the entire country and still not manage to do it.
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Though your example of Obamacare repeal is exactly on point, and there are other similar examples that one could point to, the Republicans, generally speaking, have a different pathology. What I am talking about is the dominant behavior of the two groups. Most of the Republicans do it occasionally, and some of them do it often - but pretty much all of the Democrats do it pretty much all of the time now.
With that in mind, discussing the Republicans and their problems would be off topic for this story, thou
Russia and America (Score:2)
Get a room.
Why is Russia considered an enemy? (Score:2)
Silly question for you USAians, but...why, exactly, do so many Americans consider Russia to be an enemy? I mean, sure, there was a decades-long "cold war", but that was the USSR, and those days are (or ought to be) past. Why not treat Russia as a friend, make common cause where possible?
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Why not treat Russia as a friend, make common cause where possible?
Because they're not. The Russian government has very different ideas of what should happen in the world than the US.
If "enemy" is too strong a word, use "adversary" instead. Look at Russia's history of human rights, look at the nations they consider "friends," take note of the extreme nationalism of Russia, look at their farce of an electoral process.
We oppose them because they need to be opposed.
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First there was Libya: We overthrew the government.
Then we went after Syria: We tried really hard to overthrow the government but Russia stopped us. We didnt train enough rebels in the Libyan training camps we set up.
Then because Russia prevented Syria, Ukraine: We overthrew the democratically elected government of the Ukraine and installed racist fascists. It c
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U.S. accused of trying to incite a civil war by the Ukrainian government in 2013 [youtube.com]
(use googles/youtubes closed captioning)
That was about a year before we kicked off the overthrow.
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From liveleak [liveleak.com]
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One reason could be that Russia is effectively a dictatorship ruled by Putin and a few oligarchs, but still has a mighty military and thousands of nukes, and at the same time fosters some extreme right-wing nationalism to detract from domestic problems, so whenever Putin decides to retire to his Dacha outside of Moscow, some batshit-crazy ultranationalist could rise to power and control all those slowly rotting nukes.
Another reason could be the recent annexation of the Crimean Peninsula and the countless a
No worry (Score:2, Informative)
"And the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back. Because the Cold War has been over for 20 years. " Barack Obama
It's Dead Jim... (Score:4, Insightful)
Russia derangement syndrome. (Score:2)
The Russia Democrats obsession is reaching levels of group paranoia obsession. Future psychiatrists will have a new field of study.
assumes we are smarter and have better intel (Score:1)
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Slav != white
They look white enough to me.
They're just not Anglo-Saxon.
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