Trolling Will Get Worse Before it Gets Better, Study Says (mashable.com) 208
If you thought that the internet had a chance of becoming a nicer place at any point in the near future, it might be time to give up hope. From a report: "Harassment, trolls, and an overall tone of griping, distrust, and disgust" will stay the norm on the internet over the next decade, experts told the Pew Research Center in a new report. The Pew Research Center and the Imagining the Internet Center at Elon University surveyed about 1,500 technology experts, scholars, corporate practitioners and government leaders in July and August 2016 for the study, and the results are pretty demoralizing. Forty-two percent of respondents thought the internet would stay the same sometimes less-than-pleasant place over the next 10 years, while another 39 percent said they thought the internet would become a more negative environment. Just under 20 percent of experts thought the internet had any chance of getting better over the next decade when it comes to harassment and trolling.
Troll post (Score:2, Insightful)
This slashdot news story is clearly a troll.
Re:Troll post (Score:5, Insightful)
Yup. Basically, "we asked a bunch of people to predict the future, and there was a significant degree of pessimism, although there was also a plurality of optimists."
What meaning are we supposed to gather from this? It's not even a well-characterized sample—it's just "we asked a bunch of people with strong opinions." This is not news—it's noise.
Re:Troll post (Score:5, Insightful)
I really like the increased content, but ugh..the people that came with it.
But that's what you get. If you've ever had a job that deals with the general public, you quickly realize how fscked in the head 90% of the public is.
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Yes, I remember those days, but it is not 90% of the population. The truth is that probably 90% of the trolls are gutless little 12-19 year old boys who get beat up at school every day and trolling makes them feel powerful the only way they know how. Trolling will always exist because there will always be assholes and sociopaths, but it's rampant nature right now is indicative of deep social problems in our society, and it will drop off dramatically if we address those problems.
That or we can just go for
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You're talking about Eternal September. The Internet was a lot smaller back then, and had a lot less idiocy for sure, however I'm not so sure about "nicer". USENET was infamous for "flame wars". But the difference was that, back then, the flamewars were generally between intelligent academics, and were very nasty arguments between people but with actual reason and intelligence. Whereas today, you just need to read the comments below and mass-media news article (esp. anything political), or YouTube comme
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I took that AC post as pure irony, no need to comment.
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Jokes on you. The trolls are letting you troll them to troll you so they can troll you more while they wait for their script to finish.
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You threatening to shoot me IS assault with a deadly weapon.
Have I Threatened To Shoot You Today? Read my blog and thanks for the ad revenue!
https://www.kickingthebitbucket.com/2017/03/21/have-i-threatened-to-shoot-you-today/ [kickingthebitbucket.com]
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Didn't APK get banned by pimping his website multiple times in every story like this guy is?
Maybe he is APK come back.
I gave APK grief for hounding me for a month. He backed off. Since he had a named account, I generally avoid commenting on his comments unless he comment on mine (which haven't happened).
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"Trolling" is a hell of an umbrella, even without people spinning it to their agendas. Over in a forgotten wing of the umbrella, trolling was, yes, an art. At times an impressive show of our cleverest indulging the inescapable human craving to display prowess.
Now we think the xbox tween screaming about cheaters is "trolling". We had several words to describe tantrums, but you wanted to sound internet-hip. Or worse, indulge a crusade. Either way, the word is now more scattered than "hacking".
There's no escap
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Nice pun, whether you meant it or not.
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I'm not sure the change in population is the reason the Web can be such a nasty place. For example, Slashdot seems to skew to the same population (tech professionals and academics) and I wouldn't call it a bastion of civility. Neither would I just bellyache and whine that it's a snake pit.
Much more interesting to me than whether trolling/hostility is getting worse or better in general, is what are examples where it is better and what can we do to be like them.
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I would argue that Slashdot has gotten less civil due to the same normalization of trolling/hostility as is happening on the web at large. The Libertarian/stupid mentality on Slashdot is no dumber than it is on Breitbart - except that now it has a whole new pool of unthinking trolls to quote from ;-)
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Even just 99.999999999999999% would cover every single person on the planet except for about 0.0045g of the last person. That's the weight of a few hundred hairs. (And if you actually meant 99.9 recurring then it'd be equal to 100%.)
You can't just hold the 9 key down without thinking. Numbers mean things.
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Good troll, dude.
If you look at that 2000 page, except for the version numbers and cultural references, they could have been taken from today's front page. Slashdot has been remarkably consistent over the years.
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Ha! Took a look at the Y2K page...
SuSe CEO: 'Linux Still Not Ready for the Desktop'
Update on 'Blame Canada' and the Oscars
Ask Slashdot: Burning Money on Open Source
Banner Ads on Your Cell Phone
Yeah, SOS I guess. Or, SSDD...Same Shit, Different Decade
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What's missing from the archived pages are the daily flame wars about the lack of lesbian eskimo transmidgets or whatever in STEM.
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So what you're saying is that Slashdot hasn't changed, but many of its readers have now grown up and moved out of their parents basement and aren't quite so scared of the world? I guess that's a big change, when women and gay people aren't quite so scary any more.
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but many of its readers have now grown up and moved out of their parents basement
It's adorable you think that.
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Not even close. The OP was not joking. He really thinks that Slashdot 2000 page differs somehow in content from today's.
The future of trolling (Score:5, Interesting)
I suspect the future of trolling is something like this: https://sonichu.com/ [sonichu.com]
Entire wikis created on people, documenting every mistake they ever did on their life, allowing online collaborations between thousands in phishing/harassing. AI and data mining will probably make this much easier as they improve.
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I do wonder how effective shaming everyone would really be. Unless the broadcasted information proves reliable, won't it just demolish twitter (for example) as a public forum for discussion?
Attempting to shame is one thing, and doxxing is another. I think what makes this shame campaigns intimidating is when they are followed up with death threats, swatting, etc. That actually takes a group of dedicated individuals to make it effective.
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I believe that for every person one can find a group of a thousand wackos with enough internet know-how and hatred. It is just a matter of organizing them and of showing that it can be done. Chris-chan's haters showed that it can be done, I suspect they will not be the only example.
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I am not saying he doesn't deserve it, I'm just saying that what happens to him is a precedent, and I think that wikis/forums like that will be created for other people too.
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Too bad the stalking started before the scamming. The scamming started once Chris realized that he can use the exposure he got to make some cash.
Raise your hand if you're surpirsed... (Score:2)
Hell we just gave an internet troll the nuclear codes. Now all the other trolls online have something even greater to aspire to.
Before it Gets Better? (Score:4, Insightful)
Trolling Will Get Worse; it Will Never Get Better.
FTFY...
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If trolling gets intolerable and pervasive enough, universal ID will get passed legislatively and all the trolls will wilt in the light of day. Trolls only exist because they can lurk in their mothers basement safe and sound. The minute you know that guy you are doxxing might come to your house and kick your ass, it stops being fun. This is why we can't have nice things.
In the mean time, don't feed the trolls.
The solution is also a problem (Score:5, Insightful)
Solution: Find sites that are moderated so trolls and the merely very uncivil are ejected.
Unfortunately, proper implementation requires identity verification which stifles discussion since few people worth talking to are willing to put their entire life on public record for all eternity.
There's a secondary problem in that most people will end up gravitating to echo chambers, which most often ends up reinforcing ignorance which is kind of the opposite of the Internet's optimal use - sharing information.
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Civility is left for the real world or at least that is how it should be. I don't come to the internet to necessarily be civil. I may or may not. Incivility is on the internet precisely because I cannot be uncivil IRL. Sometimes it is fun to troll an idiot.
Sadly, it seems that the uncivil nature of the internet is creeping into the meat space. If there is ever a place for civility it is IRL. Civility online, while nice, is not necessary and any forced behavior online would be to the detriment of the interne
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Civility , as in a form of respecting the others, matters everywhere. If it's absent the some guys can't handle it. Others may put up with it for a while, but then decide 'remind me again why I should I put up with this?' and leave. I've seen Kuroshin die like that. All the time while it was deteriotating there were the foulmouthed pricks convincing each other that they were just weeding out the wussies and once that was finished they'd have this really great site.
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While I generally agree, each site and person has their own definition of acceptable behavior. Perhaps I should have worded the post a little different. I do not expect civility online. Nor do I look for it online (save business related matters). Any media or social interaction I have online is not something I expect respect from nor demand. My candor and civility will be a reflection of your interaction with me.
I don't go online looking for great interactions because interacting with people is generally a
Re:The solution is also a problem (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd certainly prefer to get rid of the Anonymous Coward habit on here. People act a bit better (statistically) when they have a name on a forum. It doesn't have to be completely impossible to post AC. Just imagine you have to log in anyway but can choose to post as anonymous, possibly with a much longer waiting time before your post is committed. Sometimes people post as anonymous because they are scared. These people have a good reason and they still have the possibility to post AC.
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Identity verification is not necessary for moderation. It is simply necessary to give new users a probation period during which their posts are invisible until cleared by a moderator. This -- and moderation in general -- is labor-intensive, but labor is the difference between a forum and a dumpster fire.
The echo chamber effect happens when moderation goes beyond preventing abusive and uncivil behavior. Most community moderation systems tend to fail in this way, especially on political blogs. There's an old
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Identity verification need not involve people putting "their entire life on public record for all eternity" if you allow pseudonyms but just one per person per forum. Then the identity verification is only to ensure that you aren't already registered in the same forum under a different name.
It's also helpful to be able to verify a person's credentials so that the claims of trolls and of experts aren't given equal weight in a discussion.
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I haven't been active in years, but when I was, this was very effective at weeding out/discouraging bad behavior.
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> Unfortunately, proper implementation requires identity verification...
That might not necessarilly be true. I'm working on a site called kr5ddit [kr5ddit.com], which doesn't require any verification, but has a moderation system that cannot be gamed by having multiple sock puppets.
You must earn your right to moderate, so no amount of sock puppets can give you any advantage.
Good (Score:4, Insightful)
Social Media is what really ramped this up.
I will never forget in 2009 when a guy I knew years before messaged my wife asking if I was in FB. He wanted me to get on FB. She showed me his profile and it was rife with right wing, nationalistic, xenophobic blather, conspiracties, etc; I was instantly turned off by the whole thing. As the years went by and I have gotten the pressure to join social media(and haven't) I am glad in my decision.
Social Media, whether FB, Twitter or whatever, encourages Troll like behavior and political extremism. You would think that once people aren't anonymous anymore they would temper their "Yea, Cruz' dad killed Kennedy!" tweets, but they don't.
I have access to a FB account, that I jump onto every couple of months or so, just to see whats up, and everytime I get on there I'm disgusted by what I see and read.
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How are you disgusted by what you read on FB?
I have a FB account too. I rarely use it. My main reason for having it before was for services which used it as an authentication mechanism, namely Tinder. I have a gf now (no thanks to Tinder, but rather OKC), so I don't even need it for that now, but I'll keep it around just in case this one fails. Anyway, I also have a small handful of "friends" on FB, mostly family members, and some other friends of friends who got in there. I only do this really to seem
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before deleting your account... (Score:2)
Trolling and Fake News = same (Score:4, Interesting)
The basic problem is that we have not realized that Internet's anonymity's lets people say anything they want to.
It is compounded by humanity's innate trust, and the misunderstanding of exactly how full of garbage the internet is.
The existence of valid news sources on the internet make it worse - they give the appearance of validity to the general internet.
To make it even worse, Pravda, the Soviet Union's old ministry of propaganda, changed it's name to RT, and hired a bunch of anonymous posters, making it one of the single most effective propaganda organizations the world has ever seen.
Their stated goals of disrupting the US, breaking the European Union up, and retaking the Ukraine are having an unprecedented success.
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stated goals of disrupting the US
Does that make Hillary a Russian troll for being so hateable and sabotaging her own campaign by having so many skeletons in the closet?
Whenever I hear about Russian propaganda (a nation that does not value free speech and historically has stifled it) affecting the narrative in a nation like the US. I have to wonder how that is any different to any yellow journalism, corporate propaganda, commercial salesmanship or any other dishonest party trying to sell me bullshit that is against my own interests. I woul
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Trolling happens when people make things personal, not when people take things personally.
The trolls aren't the RTs of the world broadcasting lies and making you frustrated, it's all the shrill "centipedes" in our midsts.
They work towards the same ends, but aren't the same thing.
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In my experience, most Trolls claim they are making jokes and laughing at the outrage they create. They are not
'making' things personal, they are outright lying for the purpose of enraging others for their own amusement.
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I don't think you have to lie to troll. Call the target names? Egg them on? Sure. But you can be an epic jerk while telling the truth. That's part of why I think there's a difference. Trolls enjoy driving people nuts and the resulting negative attention is their source of amusement. Lies might make you mad, but no one is the sole arbiter of truth - you might be mistaken about some things, and there's more than one reason to lie, so while I think that qualifier might cover most trolls in most conversations,
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To make it even worse, Pravda, the Soviet Union's old ministry of propaganda, changed it's name to RT, and hired a bunch of anonymous posters, making it one of the single most effective propaganda organizations the world has ever seen.
You think that's bad? Fox News, USA Today, and CNN haven't even had to change their names!
No identity = no consequences (Score:2)
Unless there is a universal identity source that can have a reputation tied to it, there is no incentive for people to play nice with others.You can get a good sense of how socialable people really are by looking at their anonymous behavior.
Things do seem to be going downhill. Even the AC posts on this site have gotten worse. This suggests a new wave of miscreants. I am curious as to the nature of these miscreants.
Are they simply children coming of age and venting their angst without fear of consequences fr
This is a human problem. (Score:2)
I'm inclined to believe that trolling is merely the outcome of removing consequences from bad behavior. The Stanford prison experiment showed how power can corrupt individuals and it seems like trolling is the internet equivalent outcome. Sadly, it may come down to needing to develop AI that can police internet forums for us if we want to keep things civil. It's a dangerous solution but it's the only way I foresee things drastically improving without radically overhauling how the internet functions.
Why is this difficult to understand? (Score:2)
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I always thought that way until I realized that for the new majority of people on the internet today, the net is a tool for communicating mostly with people they know in person. So, to use old tech to give a loose analogy, online bullying is more like a real life bully who has put attack ads against you in all the commercial breaks on every channel of your TV. Even if you just want to disengage from the real world and distract yourself with electronic media, the real world jackasses can follow you there now
Re: Why is this difficult to understand? (Score:2)
Other way of putting it (Score:2)
Not sure this is necessarily a bad thing (Score:4, Insightful)
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If Reddit strikes you as a troll-free safe space, it is possible that you are a troll.
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Want to speak your mind without consequence? Go outside.
If some guy cuts you off on the road, flip him off. It's a free country.
If he then gets out of the car and starts walking towards you, give him the business. It's a free country.
If he then pulls out a crowbar, tell him about himself. It's a free country.
Don't forget to give him a peace of your mind when he pulls you out of your vehicle. Though he's liable to take all of that and then some, at least outside you're free to escalate without moderat
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Subreddits are moderated by their owners. Reddit is very permissive, it still allows hate groups like MGTOW, red pill, white nationalists... The bans were only really for subs that posted stolen photos from social media or raided other sites, stuff like that.
given that our President is a Troll (Score:2)
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This is what we currently have in Israel, with right wingers doxxing and arranging attacks on leftists. Currently it seems the favored solution is migrating to germany (yes, I know, jews running away to germany, ironic).
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Currently it seems the favored solution is migrating to germany (yes, I know, jews running away to germany, ironic).
Maybe, maybe not.
Germany really seems to be a good example of the saying about how sometimes you need to burn something down to create something much better. Nazi Germany obviously was a horrible place in many ways, especially for certain people. Modern Germany seems to be one of the best nations in the world to live in. But it also seems to show the sad truism that the only way to normally
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...and that's not fake irony, either.
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If the left would have known how to pass legislation they would have been able to get the original one through [...]
I wouldn't blame the left for that. It took Obama a long time to figure out that the Republicans were never serious about negotiating anything in good faith on anything.
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Derp, go look at who voted on the bill. Tell me how many republicans voted for it.
Look at what went into the final ACA bill: 200+ amendments that were sponsored or cosponsored by Republicans. Since the Democrats had the votes to carry the bill, the Republicans sat on the sidelines while eating cake. The making of the final bill was a bipartisan affair.
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Popularity ratings will be highly suspect/fake news etc. until he's out of office in which case they might be golden again (depending on who is in charge of course).
Trump's popularity rating is in the toilet. I don't think he can't stop himself from hitting the flush over and over again. Unlike George W., I don't think history will look too kindly on Trump and rate him at the bottom of unsuccessful presidents.
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> I don't think history will look too kindly on Trump
Given that the right didn't anticipate him taking the top spot in the party and the left didn't think of him as more than a joke candidate until the very end, given the way most of the world reacted to him... the PRESENT isn't looking too kindly on him.
However, partisan (mostly) support and weirdly dedicated voters who will vote against their own self-interest without even an altruistic reason... I don't think he's leaving any time soon.
I'm still waiti
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One of my local papers has been publishing articles based on interviews with Trump readers.
"I know he's lying, but it's good and I'd vote for him again"
Today's was even better... "I have black lung and would die without Obamacare so I'm glad it didn't get scrapped, but I'd vote for Trump again even if he got rid of it".
Real people. Saying incredibly stupid things that actually go up to and including an expression of willingness to DIE in order to have the Republicans win.
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One of my local papers has been publishing articles based on interviews with Trump readers.
My favorite — if you want to call it that — is people believing that Trump will bring back the 1980's manufacturing jobs that require a high school diploma or minimal education. The reality on the ground is that newer factories are automated, requires fewer workers and a college diploma. When John Deere opened a new factory, they got 10,000+ applications for 800 jobs.
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The Republican party has been actively promoting ignorance because it gets them votes. It worked right up until Trump got elected.
Now they need to deal with an ignorant and irrational support base that is unpredictable and could turn on them at any time for any reason... though I think it's when they finally cripple the ACA and their voters start actually dying. It could also be when 4 years have passed and their kids haven't gotten black lung yet.
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My take on this is that in general, republican voters don't care as much about politics and for that reason are less informed, not less intelligent. I've met my share of trump supporters and there's on thing they all had in common: They weren't aware of half of what is going on in the news (when it comes to politics) and they aren't willing to take what they hear against Trump at face value regardless of the sources.
Having said that, other than the blind follower, you need to find a common ground with a Tru
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I believe it is irrational to vote in ignorance and to willfully maintain that ignorance. That I'm applying the label 'stupid' to unshakable Trump voters isn't a partisan thing - I would say the same about anyone approaching voting for any political party (we have different ones up here in the Great White North) the same way.
I don't expect everyone to be an expert in politics (that's why we elect politicians - to be specialized experts in that field so we can do other things), but you have to learn enough
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These voters will be *happy* to die because of GOP policies, as long as the GOP continues to blame some minority for all their problems.
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Do you libtards actually think about nothing but Trump 24/7, or do you just pretend to?
I'm a moderate conservative. Trump is neither a conservative nor a Republican, and, until a few short years ago, was a Clinton Democrat. The Republicans inability to govern in the White House and Congress is a grave concern for every American.
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The Republicans inability to govern in the White House and Congress is a grave concern for every American.
Inaction by the government when there is widespread disagreement is a feature not a bug.
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Inaction by the government when there is widespread disagreement is a feature not a bug.
That's a serious flaw that needs to be fix in the 2018 elections. If politicians don't want to work, they can find another job.
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Depends on how you look at it. If you don't like the current politicians it would be a win if they find another job. If you elected that politician to obstruct then their job is to do nothing.
It doesn't need to be fixed any more than in prior elections.
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He will threaten to shoot me and then write a blog about how I am the one bullying him.
Have I Threatened To Shoot You Today? Read the blog post and thanks for the ad revenues!
https://www.kickingthebitbucket.com/2017/03/21/have-i-threatened-to-shoot-you-today/ [kickingthebitbucket.com]
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Maybe it's because you don't actually know which comment, because this troll never bothered to link it to you.
I really need to write a Python script to scrape out my comments from Slashdot and dump them into a database. Thanks to your request, I may have found the URL pattern to pull that off.
I am still curious about exactly how the comment that started this was worded, but if you don't know which comment that was, I can believe it.
Here's the comment. I'll update my blog post with the link when I get home from work.
https://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10280401&cid=53913793 [slashdot.org]
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Thanks to your request, I may have found the URL pattern to pull that off.
I have ~12,000 comments that go back to 2009. Looks like the comment history from 1999 to 2009 is not available. All I need to do is write a Python script to scrape those comments, put them into a CSV file and then import into FileMaker. This would be easier if Slashdot had an export function.
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I'm not saying you meant it as a threat, but I can at least understand why someone else would think it a threat.
Most people would say "Whatever?" and moved on. This asshat AC is still complaining that I threatened to shoot him even though he has enough information to file a police report, calling me liar and playing the victim game six weeks later. The best way to deal with bullies is to confront them at every opportunity because they're cowards at heart. Eventually they get the message to stop being an asshat and move on.
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How would you even know who to go after? It was an AC. For all you know, I could be that same AC.
Write a blog post, hope that the asshat AC writes a comment with identical language as the Slashdot posts, and report the username and/or IP address to the FBI.
Thank you for not assuming that I am that same AC btw, and for taking the time to reply to me.
You're welcome!
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You're problem is you're so biased it has turned you into a bumbling moron.
This is Slashdot. You must be new around here.
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Yes this is slashdot. I've been around for a while. And you're one of the users that never really fit in anywhere and wanted to be "like the cool kids" and this is the only place you can do that. Well maybe your Social Media sites also since you get to choose who you interact with and who can talk to you.
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And you're one of the users that never really fit in anywhere and wanted to be "like the cool kids" and this is the only place you can do that.
Seriously? Are you in high school or something?
Well maybe your Social Media sites also since you get to choose who you interact with and who can talk to you.
I have a Twitter account that I use to post announcements. That's for social media.
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That doesn't make you not a piece of shit
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Don't forget, the "approval ratings" you're reading are being determined by a media that absolutely hate Trump. They're fake news. Trump is extremely popular, despite the continued attempts to smear him by the left.
This line of delusional thinking is why I left the Republican Party.
Re:usenet trolls (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:usenet trolls (Score:5, Insightful)
This. I know it's one we've almost certainly lost, like "hacker" meaning anything other than "cracker" or "computer criminal", but "trolling" was a fine distinction of taking a deliberately inflammatory position (whether you actually held it or not) in an attempt to goad others into taking completely unreasonably positions on the other extreme in response, and laughing at the nonsense that ensued.
Degrading and broadening it to a simple "someone who's mean on the Internet" is another little piece of our culture slipping away...
I know, kids on my lawn and all that.
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You have a point. But don't mistake how it appears for how it really is. [vox.com] Most media and commenters have a vested interest in making things seem worse than they are.
It's obviously not all sweetness and light. But the likes of the anti-vax dickheads will come full circle, sadly only after they hurt and kill a lot of people. Watch how many of them claim to never have been a part of it after the fallout. I know this because vaccines work, and no amount of FUD can ever change that.
It will resolve (Score:2)
I think that eventually all this will self correct.
Watching monkeys fling poo or being one the monkeys flinging poo is only interesting for so long.
I would not be surprised to see a net decrease in the number of social media posts. I would also not be surprised to see Facebook, Twitter, etc. to all go the way of AOL.
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True, monkeys eventually get tired of scat porn. But there are a hell of a lot of monkeys that never tire of watching other monkeys throw their balls at each other.
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LOL!
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It is very interesting to see this kind of comment (I'm assuming you are not trolling or a paid user). If you check on what happened on Reddit against the Trump supporters and on censoring good part of what was being discovered on the Wikileaks files you will see a very different narrative.
I'm not American (Brazilian), but for various reasons that are irrelevant here I was against Hillary in your elections (remember that the US does interfere in every country, eg. your president decides if we get to keep th