Amateur Scientists Find New Clue In D.B. Cooper Case, Crowdsource Their Investigation (kare11.com) 139
Six months after the FBI closed the only unsolved air piracy in American aviation history -- after a 45-year investigation -- there's a new clue. An anonymous reader quotes Seattle news station KING:
A band of amateur scientists selected by the Seattle FBI to look for clues in the world's most infamous skyjacking may have found new evidence in the 45-year-old case. They're asking for the public's help because of new, potential leads that could link DB Cooper to the Puget Sound aerospace industry in the early 1970s. The scientific team has been analyzing particles removed from the clip-on tie left behind by Cooper after he hijacked a Northwest Orient passenger jet in November 1971. A powerful electron microscope located more than 100,000 particles on old the JCPenny tie. The team has identified particles like Cerium, Strontium Sulfide, and pure titanium.
Tom Kaye, lead researcher for the group calling itself Citizen Sleuths, says the group is intrigued by the finding, because the elements identified were rarely used in 1971, during the time of Cooper's daring leap with a parachute from a passenger jet. One place they were being used was for Boeing's high-tech Super Sonic Transport plane...
Interestingly, it was even a Boeing aircraft that Cooper hijacked, and witnesses say he wasn't nervous on the flight, and seemed familiar with the terrain below.
Tom Kaye, lead researcher for the group calling itself Citizen Sleuths, says the group is intrigued by the finding, because the elements identified were rarely used in 1971, during the time of Cooper's daring leap with a parachute from a passenger jet. One place they were being used was for Boeing's high-tech Super Sonic Transport plane...
Interestingly, it was even a Boeing aircraft that Cooper hijacked, and witnesses say he wasn't nervous on the flight, and seemed familiar with the terrain below.
Re:" it was even a Boeing aircraft" (Score:5, Informative)
Not the point. He knew how to lower the stairs. He was familiar with THIS aircraft, a 727. The whole thing took place between Portland and Seattle, where the SST manufacturing plant was located, which is a valid and rare source for the material found on the tie. The government had just cancelled the SST program and Boeing laid of thousands of workers in the midst of the Boeing death-spiral recession that was happening at the same time where Boeing went from 130,000 employees to 35,000 in 18 months. That's when the billboard went up: "Will the last one to leave Seattle please turn out the lights?" That points to someone who worked at Boeing or at least had inside information.
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Re:" it was even a Boeing aircraft" (Score:4, Insightful)
... if you worked in a muffler shop in 1971.
If you worked in a muffler shop in 1971, you would probably be asking, "Whut's a katlitic converter?"
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Back in the 70's...
Yeah, in the second half of the 70s. That didn't happen in 1971 unless you worked at one of the two companies developing as of yet to be sold converters. And then it wouldn't have been cerium metal based until later (cerium oxide was used pretty early though).
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The first production catalytic converter was not until 1973, in part because they wouldn't work while leaded fuels were still common. And titanium white was first produced in the 1910s, not the 1800s like you said above. Your dates seem to be rather off.
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The earliest uses of a synthetic titanium oxide, not of pigmentary quality, were during the late 1800s as opacifiers and additives to increase acid resistance in glazes and vitreous enamels.
A blue porcelain glaze using hydrous titanic oxide was described in 1841. Titanium compounds of all kinds were investigated for use in the late 1800s in the textile industry, including titanium oxide as a mordant for wool, also not the calcined white pigment
And titanium dioxide was discovered in 1821 [webexhibits.org].
Again, there is no "evidence" that titanium was so rare back in the 1970s.
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a) It isn't titanium dioxide, but actual titanium metal, in shapes that indicate the particles are swarf and debris from machining operations.
b) the x-ray spectroscopic data show that the particle tested isn't pure Ti but is pretty darn close to being so. No other elements approach 1% of the total spectra.
c) one fragment was found to have close association with aluminium crystals, which might indicate an alloy.
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And cerium is used in cigarette lighter "flints", strontium in cathode ray tubes.
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And spiral shaped aluminum chips? http://www.citizensleuths.com/... [citizensleuths.com]
Re: " it was even a Boeing aircraft" (Score:3, Funny)
Reading is Fundamental (Score:5, Informative)
Next time could you bother to read the article? Yes, titanium dioxide is common, which is the entire point of mentioning that element, because the elemental form is far less common, and even less common then.
It's not that your comments aren't valuable, it's that you don't know when you have fine caviar in your hand or fetid dogshit -- it's the same to you either way. In this case — so you know — this is dogshit.
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Next time could you bother to read the article? Yes, titanium dioxide is common, which is the entire point of mentioning that element, because the elemental form is far less common, and even less common then.
It's not that your comments aren't valuable, it's that you don't know when you have fine caviar in your hand or fetid dogshit -- it's the same to you either way. In this case — so you know — this is dogshit.
Pure titanium isn't used in aircraft - it's used as part of an alloy. So if they detected pure titanium (as they claimed) it's most definitely not from aircraft manufacturing, since the alloys arrive at the factory already smelted and cast or rolled, ready for machining or forming, so that pretty much kills the whole thing. They're not going to manufacture the alloys at the plant from elemental titanium.
So it's exactly what I said - a just another crowdsourcing scam targeting people with more money than b
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If you knew shit about Boeing, you'd know they had R&D facilities where they developed alloys and then had other industry partners manufacture them en-masse.
Boeing was heavily involved in titanium alloys and aluminum-lithium alloy development in the 70s and 80s.
Which is a perfect explanation about why pure titanium, cerium, and more was found on the tie.
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Re:Reading is Fundamental (Score:4, Informative)
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The whole thing is yet another scam to dupe people out of money. First, titanium is far from rare. Titanium dioxide has been used as a pigment since the 1800s. It's the most used white pigment. It's also in sunscreen, food, cosmetics, rubber, paper, plastics, and ... well, you get the point. It's everywhere, and has been well before the '70s.
Nice try, but we're not falling for your psyops. Everyone knows that titanium tioxide is a component of pico-thermite. Which... is why no one ever found the body.
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It seems to me that this residue could have come from the plane he hijacked. It doesn't make sense that he would have used a tie from work, or that he would have all this residue but also be an employee who wears a tie. It seems reasonable that a Boeing maintenance employee might who had worked at that plant and had residue all over his coveralls might have been transferred to a maintenance division and have been leaving that residue around.
727 was a very common plane at the time. I was still seeing them at
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But, did the 727 use titanium heavily in its manufacture? Titanium metals weren't very common back then, and were mostly used in supersonic aircraft, not boring commercial airlines.
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That's not a valid question in response to my comment. Please re-read my comment to find that I already provided the sufficient information for you to determine the relevance of your question.
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It seems to me that this residue could have come from the plane he hijacked.
No, it could not.
It doesn't make sense that he would have used a tie from work, or that he would have all this residue but also be an employee who wears a tie.
As TFA says, it would if he was an engineer.
The rest I assume is about the stairs, which I have no comment on as I know nothing of it.
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It seems to me that this residue could have come from the plane he hijacked.
No, it could not.
Yes it could! Notice how that goes in circle? If you want to just say, "Nuh-uh" you should follow it with some reasons.
And yeah, it really could. You can't say it couldn't, because you won't have information that supports that. You won't know. You can't say "no" here, the best you can do is to answer the natural corollary to "could have" which is "could have not." Which I would totally agree with, as proven by my use of the word "could" in the first place.
If you think about how material transfer that ends u
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There was no Titanium metal used in the body of the aircraft. Titanium was an extremely rare metal used in supersonic aircraft, as the 727 was not supersonic, there is no chance that the tie picked up titanium shards from the aircraft. You can make up all kinds of sources that are impossible, it doesn't make them suddenly possible.
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Right, you simply missed the point and don't understand what indirect transfer means. Try harder, you might eventually understand what you're disagreeing with.
All you're doing is missing the point.
Is the theory that there was only one person who worked for Boeing that could have picked up titanium "shards"[sic]? No, no, that was not the theory they floated. You simply didn't understand it, and didn't understand that it doesn't narrow it down really very far; and that's why they're asking for people who woul
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Not the point. He knew how to lower the stairs.
Not impressed. I know how to lower the stairs. It's not hard. After watching someone, you'll know too. It's not that hard.
As for being familiar with a 727, they're a dime a dozen. Very few differences between the one DB Cooper hijacked and the last one I flew, probably back in the 1990s.
Re:" it was even a Boeing aircraft" (Score:4, Interesting)
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Unfortunately the crime has expired. :)
Nice try but the statute of limitations no longer applies:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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Nice try but the statute of limitations no longer applies:
Actually that's a good thing, thanks.
Re:I have never understood (Score:5, Interesting)
Why so much publicity on individual cases of private individuals?
It says right in the first sentence: "the only unsolved air piracy in American aviation history"
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That's how the world works, grasshopper. A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic.
The clue is to change your perspective. 'News' is not what is significantly important (Boeing wasting billions), it's what the public likes to read. Justice is not determined by the economic effects, it's by the possibility of prosecution. You can convict a shoplifter with ease, almost no one involved in the 2008 crisis was prosecuted at all. The money from everywhere is keeping this system in check, because why kill the goose with the golden eggs if it also does a lot of things wrong?
and of course the better system is...?
The better system (Score:1)
Re: The better system (Score:1)
Distraction (Score:1)
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A GPS watch taken back in time to 1971 wouldn't work because there would be no GPS satellites in orbit.
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So he also transported enough GPS satellites back in time, for his GPS to work? ;-)
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The GPS device has a knife switch on the back that toggles it to use LORAN navigation.
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The GPS device has a knife switch on the back that toggles it to use LORAN navigation.
Mod parent ++
LORAN was awesome!!! Wish they would have left the inland LORAN infrastructure in place. When a large CME or other unexpected astronomical event occurs, it would be nice to have ground-based electronic navigation already in place. Oh well.
Jimmy James (Score:3, Funny)
We all know that D.B. Cooper was Jimmy James.
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We all know that D.B. Cooper was Jimmy James.
No, he was Jimmy Johns, and he used the money to establish a successful chain of sandwich shops.
No, Jimmy WALES. Wondered why he takes no salary? (Score:2)
It was Jimmy WALES. Ever wondered why he has no need to accept a salary for running Wikipedia?
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You have the Minneapolis connection right, but the name is Jimmy Jingle [spoke.com], a defunct vending machine company.
We had Jimmy Jingle vending machines on campus when I was in tech school. A truly horrible rinky-dink operation. Coffee machines that vended absolutely tiny cups, etc.
No westmoreland (Score:2)
And he did a some time at fox river
WTF (Score:2)
WTF is a piracy?
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It's and example of an irritating affectation from the computer-geek world, trying to sound more sophisticated or vaguely European. A bunch of idiots go around in Wikipedia changing conventional spelling to British spellings (artefact VS artifact), too.
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You couldn't make it up.
What's that got to do with anything?
You seem to have a bit of an inferiority complex, and it might well be justified.
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WTF is a piracy?
Hijacking an aircraft comes under the international laws on piracy, that were originally written for piracy of ships. They are in generalized terms, though, so they also apply to other large carriers of cargo and people.
At the time this event was called piracy, but (as they do now) the news media changed it to "dumb it down".
I'm still rooting for him. (Score:2)
You don't hear of too many gentleman bandits. I'm rooting for him, personally.
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Chillin' in Costa Rica, or dead, probably both.
Re:I'm still rooting for him. (Score:5, Insightful)
Plot twist: DB Cooper is actually John McAfee.
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and he's assuredly a pensioner
Pensioner in name only. If he was in his 40s in 1971 and lost his job at that time, he likely didn't have enough work history to have accrued much pension. Likelihood of him having taken a job with a pension after this would likely be pretty slim.
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Why wouldn't he have taken another job? The money never showed up and so he would need money.
I think he won... (Score:2)
How do you spend money that's that hot?
You owe money to the Mob; So you pays what you owes. :)
They really can't bitch too much.
So WTF You paid with stolen money? ALL of the people who give them money do. :)
I think he walked away proud. :D
And he would've gotten away with it, too... (Score:3)
If it weren't for these meddling old people!
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The FBI closed the case, so now they're outsourcing it?
No
Trump should shut that FBI office down as a warning to the other ones
The DB Cooper FBI office? Even pretending that there was one specifically dedicated towards finding DB Cooper, it presumably would have been shut down when they closed the case
and bank robberies
What do you think the DB Cooper incident was?
You almost understood any single part of this story. Keep working on it bud. You'll get there one day.
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tie was left on a boeing aircraft
Except Boeing commercial aircraft don't use that much titanium. So the contamination level from that path would be vanishingly small. Titanium (and some of the other rare elements detected) are used primarily in military programs. Which Cooper might have picked up as an engineer visiting a related shop area.
The idea was put forth that Cooper might have been involved with the SST program, which was going to use a significant amount of titanium. But Boeing never got much further than plywood mockups. Given t
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worst. joke. evar.
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But he jumped blind in bad weather. He should have called it off if he wasn't going to be able to see the strobes.
Nothing new (2011 dupe?) (Score:5, Informative)
We've know for quite a long time about the titanium. Here's a story from 2011: http://www.upi.com/Did-DB-Coop... [upi.com]
It hasn't been relevant for a long time, the guy walked off with $200k and may or may not have survived. In the mean time, a small band of cyber criminals has been hacking banks and ATM's for the last decade without ever being caught despite still being active, having been tied to close to $1B in losses worldwide.
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Right, but you trust our voting machines because they are made by the people who make ATMs, right?
It captured the public's imagination (Score:2)
It doesn't matter if he's dead, or if the case isn't relevant anymore. Who cares about its legal status. The heist captured the public imagination. The audacity of it, the lingering mystery. People will still be talking about it in 100 years, just like people still talk about wild west stage coach robberies.
His reserve chute was a dummy. (Score:5, Interesting)
It is possible for him to have landed safely and secreted the money bags. After that it is very difficult to believe he could have survived long, somehow hitchhiked out of that area, to some bus station or train yard or truck stop traveled without being seen out of that area. With that level of media attention to that part of the country all strangers would have been noticed and reported. I think he died near where the cash was found. The wild animals tore through his body and clothing, most the cash and bones ended up in the river and washed out to the ocean.
Advice to future copy-cats. Practice skydiving and become familiar. Try to take your own familiar parachute. Ask for basic camping survival gear. Dry food rations and some water. After landing safely, secure the cash and note the gps coordinates. Find a water course and follow it down stream. Till you come to a river with decent flowing water. Collect drift wood, form a raft and float down stream. Raft only at nights. From the watershed where you jump, figure out which river you will end up in, pick the city to rejoin civilization, practice it couple of times, do dry runs.
With the proliferation of security cameras, high resolution picture of your face will have been recorded by TSA. So grow mustache, beard, dye them, wear glasses. Doctor your eye-glass frames to be asymmetric, slightly. You need to make the eigen values of the face detection algo matrix go askew. After the fact switch to contacts, go clean shaven and revert to natural hair color. Colored contact lenses before the crime^H^H^H^H^H adventure, a must.
Realize if you can pull this off, you are smart enough to make more money legally.
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Alternatively, you can make several caches with clean clothes and camping gear beforehand. Then just find the nearest cache and backpack wherever you want.
Re:His reserve chute was a dummy. (Score:4, Informative)
Considering how much effort he put into planning the rest of the operation, it isn't unreasonable to assume that he had a plan for when he landed. Perhaps he prepared some supplies and transport before hand. A change of clothes so as not to look suspicious, replacement bags for the money.
It just seems unlikely that after so carefully figuring out how to pull off the hijacking he would neglect to consider how to escape afterwards.
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There is one theory out there that it wasn't a guy in the first place. It was a chick dressed up as a man. Another one I think says that it was a guy, later had SRS to become a woman.
Didn't know about the dummy chute. As Toyota used to say - "oh what a feeling."... if you go to pull a rip cord and nothing happens.
Maybe a yard sale or thrift shop tie? (Score:1)
Destination Unknown (Score:1)