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Privacy Transportation

Uber Wants To Track Your Location Even When You're Not Using the App, Here's Why (businessinsider.com) 131

Posted by msmash from the why-they-do-what-they-do dept.
With the most recent update to Uber's ride-hailing app, the company has begun requesting users if they are willing to share their location data with Uber app even while the app is not in use. The company says it plans to use the data gained to improve user experience -- including offering improved pick-up times and locations. From an article on Business Insider: In August the company moved away from using Google Maps for its service and began using its own mapping technology. Google's lack of accuracy in many non-Western countries led to increased friction between consumers and drivers. This means the company needs to boost the amount of location data it has. Location data could also be used to provide new channels of revenue for the digital platform. This could include serving ads of local businesses or recommending nearby places of interest to users. Mobile marketing, which relies on accurate location data is a rapidly growing industry and could serve as a revenue windfall for Uber in the years ahead as it faces increasing competition. In fact, revenue from location-targeted mobile ads is expected to grow at an annualized rate of almost 34% between 2014 and 2019, surpassing $18 billion, according to a forecast from BIA/Kelsey.
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Uber Wants To Track Your Location Even When You're Not Using the App, Here's Why More

Uber Wants To Track Your Location Even When You're Not Using the App, Here's Why

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  • What could possibly go wrong?

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I agree, doing maps themselves is also a great plan, it worked out well for Apple.

      • Re:Why not? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by tripleevenfall ( 1990004 ) on Wednesday November 30, 2016 @04:10PM (#53396323)

        :::deletes the Uber app:::

        • Re: Why not? (Score:4, Insightful)

          by Malc ( 1751 ) on Wednesday November 30, 2016 @04:38PM (#53396557)

          Sounds like overkill. Currently I have it to set to 'While Using', but if this changes to 'Always' -- which is really annoying -- then I will disable location services for the app and enable it only when needed. Given that I use Uber infrequently, this is fine. Incidentally I already do this with Waze, which makes perfect sense to me because I don't have a car so my location info doesn't help other users.

          • Re: (Score:1)

            by Anonymous Coward

            Everybody should disable location services for everything they're not actively using and of course only enable it for things where doing so serves them. Leaving location services on all the time is simply giving away valuable data for free, and can lead to all kinds of unforeseen complications later.

            • Re: (Score:1)

              by thomn8r ( 635504 )
              No idea why you're being downloaded - this is 100% spot-on.

              If the NSA required people to have location services on all the time, people would pitch a fit, yet when an app does it, it's a Good Thing

        • I'm an Android user, I just turn off Location Services when I don't need them. I mean, simple cell triangulation gets you to within about 100 m or so, so what's the point in worrying? If you want to be paranoid, be paranoid. Get an offline GPS, assuming you need one, and don't carry a cell phone. Or turn it off.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by pnutjam ( 523990 )
            I had a Samsung, which gave me a convenient button to flip GPS off and on, it did try to turn on all location services whenever I flipped it on. No, I don't want you to scan the names of every SSID and wireless tower around me so it can go in someone's database.

            Now I have a Motorola I inherited from my wife, since my HPE decided it will only pay for employee cell service, not the handset (WTF). It makes it more difficult and automatically flips on all the location services. I can't find a good app to toggl

    • What could possibly go wrong?

      I was visiting a city where I knew Uber operated so I thought "Hey I'll give this a go!", installed the app. It wanted me to enter my credit card details into the app before I could use it. Uninstalled app, hailed a cab.

      Enter credit card details in the actual app as a requirement to use the service? What could possibly go wrong with that?

      • prepaid CC FTW

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Calydor ( 739835 )

          Which is something you can easily just create if you find yourself in a city you're not familiar with and just need to get somewhere once.

          • Or you could simply carry cash and be nearly anonymous rather than not-even-close-to-being anonymous with an app.

            I know. Simplicity is too simple.

            • Or you could simply carry cash and be nearly anonymous rather than not-even-close-to-being anonymous with an app.

              I know. Simplicity is too simple.

              The Uber app *insisted* on the card details and wouldn't let me use the app without it. Cash didn't seem to be an option.

              Cabs seem a lot safer.

              • "United States coins and currency (including Federal Reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal Reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues." Not accepting cash means that the banks take a cut, which means credit card dollars have less value to a creditor than bank notes.

                Want to pay Uber in cash? Book a ride to a destination other than where you want to go. When the driver gets there, tell them you'll cancel the ride and pay him cash to take you to

                • Re: Why not? (Score:1)

                  by Anonymous Coward

                  I know at least one person who got banned from Uber for "excessive cancellations", which meant two consecutive ones.

        • prepaid CC FTW

          PITA

        • prepaid CC FTW

          https://help.uber.com/h/cf7e93... [uber.com]

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by lxs ( 131946 )

            Man, they even want my location (on a desktop) just to visit their help page.

            Fuck Uber.

        • prepaid CC FTW

          Nope.

          I tried to use Uber with one. The app let me create an account, but when it actually came time to get a ride, Uber wouldn't take my prepaid. Even though it had several hundred dollars on it, and I had the $20 first-time-user credit, and my ride was only expected to cost $12 (meaning I shouldn't have been expected to pay anything anyway), the app refused to let me book a ride, citing "There is a problem with your card, please use another."

          So, I just called a real taxi and paid cash. Then, I uninstall

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Altus ( 1034 )

        how were you expecting to pay?

        • how were you expecting to pay?

          At the end of the ride.

          When I get a cab I pay with my card at the end of the ride and the card stays in my possession.

          Uber wants to hold onto your card just in case. Maybe they'll decide you need to pay some 'extra' charges after your ride, maybe the driver puts in a claim that you soiled the car or something. Fuck that.

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by 110010001000 ( 697113 )
            Get over yourself. Uber isn't going to steal $5 from you. It isn't in their best interest to do so. You are a very small minded person.

            • It's certainly not in their worst interest to do it. It wouldn't be worth your while suing over it. Multiply that by all the people that use it ...

              • LOL. You guys are so small minded. Uber wants as many customers as possible. They aren't interested in little scams like stealing $5 from you.

              • Re: (Score:1)

                by imbusy ( 1002705 )
                You can dispute credit card charges with pretty much a single click of a mouse.

            • Get over yourself. Uber isn't going to steal $5 from you.

              Agreed. They're not going to steal a cent from me if they require a credit card before service delivery. They're not going to get my business.

              Actually, where in my country do they have employees? Oh, just the capital and the largest city ; nowhere important. I'll look at the question in another year. Or the next time I use a taxi, whichever comes sooner.

          • how were you expecting to pay?

            At the end of the ride.

            When I get a cab I pay with my card at the end of the ride and the card stays in my possession.

            Uber wants to hold onto your card just in case. Maybe they'll decide you need to pay some 'extra' charges after your ride, maybe the driver puts in a claim that you soiled the car or something. Fuck that.

            You miss the point of Uber (and Lyft and other ride sharing services). The point being you don't have to have your wallet or cards w/ you. Let's say you're taking a walk and decide to visit a friend, something for which you need not have your wallet w/ you. So you reach for your phone, call Uber, get taken to her place, get dropped and don't think about it, once the driver ends the ride. As an added advantage, you don't have to haggle, and can decide whether to tip or not (in case of Lyft - I doubt tha

            • The one time I've ever used either Lyft or Uber was when my flight home was super late, and I didn't want to bug the wife to come down to the airport to pick me up, so I grabbed a seat in the terminal, installed the Lyft app from GooglePlay, entered my info, and started the app to get a ride home. The app told me my ride would be at the pickup point outside the terminal in four minutes. I walked out to where I *thought* the pickup point was and watched my driver have to go around the parking structure, as I

            • You miss the point of Uber (and Lyft and other ride sharing servies). The point being that they know where you are and sell that for money. TFA has a picture (before their "hey turn off your add blocker" screen comes up) showing the value of location based adds in 2014, and projected in 2019. Guess which one is higher? Remember when Uber went through their data and figured out who went home with someone else after they hit the bar and published a thing on the web about it? Wouldn't it be great if they

            • You miss the point of taxis (and other transportation-for-hire services). The point being you don't have to have your phone charged and w/ you. Let's say you're talking a walk and decide to visit a friend, something for which you need not have your phone w/ you. So you hail a taxi, get taken to her place, get dropped, pay, and don't think about it, once the driver ends the ride. As an added advantage, you don't have to haggle, and can decide whether to tip or not.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Hadlock ( 143607 )

        How did you book your plane ticket when you visited the city? Generally you need to provide some sort of payment up front before you get a seat going somewhere, unless grandma is driving.

        • Oddly enough, everywhere I do business still takes cash.

          • What are you, an RMS devotee? So if you need to pony up $500 for an airline ticket, you draw that in cash from your bank and then head for the airport? I'm assuming that you don't book your ticket either on phone nor online, since they can't take cash over either media.

            • Plenty of places give a discount for cash - you just have to ask for it. Even some big-box stores. They hate those cash-back credit cards because that "cash back" is also deducted, in addition to the regular credit card merchant fees, and there's no way to tell just by looking at the card what, if any, cash back they're going to be hit for.

              What - you thought the credit card companies were giving you that money out of their pockets? They're using their duopoly status to gouge retailers.

              • Most of them are quadpolies - not just Visa and Mastercard, but also American Express and Discover
            • Keeping cash on hand is never a bad idea. I never let the cash stash go below $2000. It's well-secured, of course, but it's a nice buffer against shitty weather.

              • Keeping cash on hand is never a bad idea. I never let the cash stash go below $2000. It's well-secured, of course, but it's a nice buffer against shitty weather.

                Can you please turn on location services so I can locate that stash of yours?

            • If I'm flying it's for business and the business has a car and tickets waiting for me, I assume they use a credit card, but that's not me paying for or arranging those things. It's not that I never use a credit card, I just prefer to use cash.

              If I'm visiting my sister that lives about 350 miles away it's faster an easier to just drive. I've never had a reason to fly personally.

                 

              • I was talking about a friend/relative who lives in the same city. If it's someone 350 miles away, I'd take a flight and then Lyft.

                • The closest airport is already 120 miles away unless you count little private airports and then after I land I'm 100 miles past my sister's home I may as well drive.

                  I could probably book a small charter but it would be far more expensive and take almost as long as driving.

        • How did you book your plane ticket when you visited the city? Generally you need to provide some sort of payment up front before you get a seat going somewhere, unless grandma is driving.

          If Uber have my credit card details they can charge me any time they want for anything they want.

          Suppose after I finish my ride the driver puts in a claim that I soiled the car and they charge me another $100 for that. All I can do is go to the credit card company and do a charge back. Fuck that.

          • It isn't in Ubers interest to do that. If they did that you would never use their services again and they would be out a lot of money. Believe it or not, not everyone is out to scam you out of $100.

            • It isn't in Ubers interest to do that. If they did that you would never use their services again and they would be out a lot of money. Believe it or not, not everyone is out to scam you out of $100.

              Are you saying its impossible for the driver to put in a claim for a soiled car and for Uber to claw the money back from you? Just totally impossible, never going to happen? Ok cool, you go ahead and use Uber. I'll use a cab and I'll pay by cash.

              If Uber allowed paying by cash I bet they'd make more money.

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by dbIII ( 701233 )

                If Uber allowed paying by cash I bet they'd make more money

                They would lose the tight control they have over their piecework employees who may decide to do a bit of taxi work on their own.

              • Do a chargeback. Credit card companies are the 800 pound gorilla in the room in this arena, and they have enormous power to make vendors comply with their wishes.
      • I didn't even get that far. I saw the list of permissions that it wanted (for the Android app) and didn't get as far as the install.

    • What could possibly go wrong?

      After all, it's not like Über has a history of abusing customer data.

    • I was going to post this. Google, NSA, FBI, and the boy scouts already track me. Why not uber?

    • I agree. You guys carry a location tracking device in your person at all times. That is what a mobile phone is. So why do you care?
      • I don't carry a mobile phone/tablet/laptop/internet connect thing du jour all of the time, because I've no interest in giving away my location for free. It's neither up to some company, or some shill to determine whether I should care or not. If you start employing me, then I'm willing to discuss terms.
      • I carry a phone all the time, but in case of my iPhone, only some apps - like camera - are authorized to use wireless data all the time, and always on. Other apps - I either enable them only when used (like in case of maps) or completely disable them (like Monopoly: why the fuck does a game need to know my location, particularly one like Monopoly?) If an app is always running and has location on, it'll eat up both your data and battery before you realize it

  • Think Nothing of it, Uber! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Jonathan C. Patschke ( 8016 ) on Wednesday November 30, 2016 @04:12PM (#53396339) Homepage

    The sole reason I charge my mobile and pay my data plan is so that companies can use me to improve their business plans and profitability while providing me with zero compensation. Let me know if I can do something else to help!

    Raymond Chen has a recurring theme on his Old New Thing [microsoft.com] blog of "What if applications other than yours did this?" What would battery life or capped data plans look like if every application felt a need to send location telemetry home all the time?

    • They already have the info by tracking the driver's phone. They don't need to track yours as well, except to push ads. They were lying. Again.

    • Raymond Chen has a recurring theme on his Old New Thing blog of "What if applications other than yours did this?" What would battery life or capped data plans look like if every application felt a need to send location telemetry home all the time?

      Well, you are in luck. A fully loaded Samsung Galaxy Note 3 will last up to about 48 hours on a single charge if not actively used. The same phone, with no Google Services, apps, or anything other than a bare metal Android install will last up to about 28 days on a single charge if not actively used.

      Heavy usage of a fully loaded Samsung Galaxy Note 3 is roughly 12 hours. Heavy usage (how can this be?) of bare metal Android is about a week.

  • Idea: revert to the old app (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    I miss the surge indicator and the "txt me back when the surge is gone" feature. I understand the drunks and the morons don't understand the meaning of 1.9x, 10x, etc. but I think it should be an option the way this is presented.

    I haven't used Lyft yet but I'm thinking about it now that Uber has lost its "magic" the edge is gone. Plus having UberPool as the default and no way to remove it is damn stupid.

  • "Willing to"??? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by pla ( 258480 ) on Wednesday November 30, 2016 @04:13PM (#53396351) Journal
    I don't even keep location services turned on except when I need to use my phone as a GPS, never mind allow any apps to access it.

    Why the hell would I want to share my location with Uber? Oh, right - "Location data could also be used to provide new channels of revenue for the digital platform. This could include serving ads of local businesses". Yeah, kindly fuck right off, Uber.

    • I don't even keep location services turned on except when I need to use my phone as a GPS, never mind allow any apps to access it.

      This and bluetooth is disabled unless in the very rare case I'm using it... all it does is run the battery down.

    • It is amusing all the outrage here. You carry a device that is constantly sending your location. This location information is being stored indefinitely by your provider and shared with God knows who. It is called a mobile phone. Yet for some reason you are OK with that. Very strange.

      • Re:"Willing to"??? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by TroII ( 4484479 ) on Wednesday November 30, 2016 @05:20PM (#53396845)

        I don't understand why you don't put your SSN in your sig. That information is being stored indefinitely by the government, your bank, and your doctor's office, and it's being shared with God knows who. For some reason you're OK with that, but you don't give it out to everyone? Very strange.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by dj245 ( 732906 )

      I don't even keep location services turned on except when I need to use my phone as a GPS, never mind allow any apps to access it. Why the hell would I want to share my location with Uber? Oh, right - "Location data could also be used to provide new channels of revenue for the digital platform. This could include serving ads of local businesses". Yeah, kindly fuck right off, Uber.

      Uber may be playing shenanigans but other companies can potentially do useful things with that data. As an example, Pandora seems to play certain songs depending on my location or time of day. I have noticed that John O`Callaghan's "Big Sky" seems to play much more frequently around sunset. Driving home from the airport after a business trip almost guarantees a play of Gareth Emery's "Long Way Home". I have no evidence that Pandora is actually changing the songs played based on location or time of day

  • Battery drain (Score:4)

    by T.E.D. ( 34228 ) on Wednesday November 30, 2016 @04:30PM (#53396489)

    Isn't that going to be a bit of a battery drain issue? In order to do that, its going to have to constantly be running something in the background checking your GPS.

    That being said, Google is already doing this on Android. I know this because I'm constantly getting maps notifications of how long it will take to drive to home/work, unasked. Still, I think it only does that twice a day, and this uber thing seems completely open-ended.

    • Re:Battery drain (Score:5, Informative)

      by Dorianny ( 1847922 ) on Wednesday November 30, 2016 @04:42PM (#53396591) Journal

      Isn't that going to be a bit of a battery drain issue? In order to do that, its going to have to constantly be running something in the background checking your GPS.

      That being said, Google is already doing this on Android. I know this because I'm constantly getting maps notifications of how long it will take to drive to home/work, unasked. Still, I think it only does that twice a day, and this uber thing seems completely open-ended.

      Go to Settings->Location->Google Location History and turn it off. In the event of an account hijacking, the attacker would know where you live, work, drop your kids to school and all kinds of other scary things

      • Re:Battery drain (Score:5, Funny)

        by The-Ixian ( 168184 ) on Wednesday November 30, 2016 @05:35PM (#53396961)

        In my case they would know where I work, live and get groceries... I have a boring life.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by T.E.D. ( 34228 )

        Thanks. I may go do just that.

        But the point here is that Google already is silently doing this to lots of people. You know...the "Don't be evil" people. Probably others too. Uber's just trying to hitch their own boxcar onto the back of the gravy-train.

        • I recently (this month) got an Android phone. The last time I had one it was Gingerbread and I didn't really like it all that much.

          One of the "improvements" which kind of freaked me out was when I walked by a place and Google wanted me to review it. I still haven't disabled location services because I am curious to see what all of this information gathering can do for me. For example, the traffic notifications are ok... not super useful to me (I use public transit), but kind of neat, especially the travel t

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by ADRA ( 37398 )

            I'm not paranoid or worried enough to turn off these services, but if you're really determined, you can use something like Tasker / IFTTT and use either geofencing (kind of against what you're trying to accomplish) or something like Wifi / NFC triggers to determine when to turn on/off services automatically for you.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by thedarb ( 181754 )

        Thank you for this.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by labnet ( 457441 )

      Well, we are the product.

      It's my 15th wedding anniversary today, and my wife said look at this.
      Facebook had without her asking, put together an anniversary congratulation, that included a slide show of engagement photos (from 16 years ago!) and wedding photos!
      Scary stuff!

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by T.E.D. ( 34228 )

        It's my 15th wedding anniversary today, and my wife said look at this.

        Facebook had without her asking, put together an anniversary congratulation, that included a slide show of engagement photos (from 16 years ago!) and wedding photos!

        Scary stuff!

        What I find even more interesting is that Facebook knew enough to do that for her, but not for you.

  • Just stop with the bullshit already. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by geekmux ( 1040042 ) on Wednesday November 30, 2016 @04:40PM (#53396567)

    "...The company says it plans to use the data gained to improve user experience..."

    Oh, enough with the bullshit.

    You want this additional telemetry data because you're going to sell it.

    You want this additional telemetry data because you're going to sell it.

    You want this additional telemetry data because you're going to sell it.

    Revenue and Profit are the king and queen of business, so drop the lame-ass excuses for gathering more data already. Shit gets old.

    • If it's just about getting location data to improve service, let them track the driver. They already do - problem solved.

  • How is knowing my location BEFORE I request a ride going to improve pickup times? Are they just going to have a driver follow me around all the time? This sounds like just a grab for more data and data seems to be the new currency.

  • With all due respect, Fuck YoUber!

  • Uber (Score:2)

    by ADRA ( 37398 )

    "Trust us with your data, because like when were we known to flagrantly violate your laws."

  • This is the same company that threatened to shame journalist with their late-night whereabouts if they wrote unflattering reviews, right? I see no reason not to allow them even more access to your data.

  • At the moment I'm stuck with an old Android phone. Thus, no Whatsapp, no Facebook, no $LATEST_FAD_APP, no Uber app. (I am however able to get some apps from alternative app stores like F.droid.) I can obviously use web apps no problem. Google told me that the mobile site of Uber could be used if no app available, but they need to activate your account for it, which didn't happen: Uber support basically told me: upgrade your phone. Not happening.

    In the mean time, the time for my hospital procedure which inv

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