Cloudflare Faces Lawsuit For Assisting Pirate Sites (torrentfreak.com) 83
An anonymous reader shares a TorrentFreak report: In recent months CloudFlare has been called out repeatedly for offering its services to known pirate sites, including The Pirate Bay. These allegations have now resulted in the first lawsuit after adult entertainment publisher ALS Scan filed a complaint against CloudFlare at a California federal court. [...] Copyright holders are not happy with CloudFlare's actions. Just recently, the Hollywood-affiliated group Digital Citizens Alliance called the company out for helping pirate sites to stay online. Adult entertainment outfit ALS Scan agrees and has now become the first dissenter to take CloudFlare to court. In a complaint filed at a California federal court, ALS describes piracy as the greatest threat to its business. The rise of online piracy has significantly hurt the company's profits, they argue, noting that "pirate" sites are not the only problem. "The problems faced by ALS are not limited to the growing presence of sites featuring infringing content, or 'pirate' sites. A growing number of service providers are helping pirate sites thrive by supporting and engaging in commerce with these sites," ALS writes.
Meh... (Score:1)
Dear ALS Scan,
Stop exploiting women and get a fucking job.
Re: (Score:3)
Too much free content, and too much content stolen by other porn businesses. THAT is what is killing the porn industry.
Re:Meh... (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:3)
The porn industry isn't dead, dying or anywhere close, the staggering there is array of porn available, possibly too much.
The problem is that these people see is that they can't make millions selling porn, well boo hoo. Your in business deal with the environment your are in, or fail.
This industry is an example of how piracy although prevalent has not stopped a wide variety of content being produced.
Re: Meh... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The problem is that these people see is that they can't make millions selling porn, well boo hoo.
But...I put a naked girl in front of a $500 video camera and paid my nephew $50 to make a web site. Don't I deserve at least $500,000 for doing that?
Re: (Score:3)
'Stop exploiting women and get a fucking job.'
- But isn't that precisely what they've already got?
Others To Sue (Score:5, Insightful)
Server companies sell servers that these pirates use, sue them also. Computer makers make computers that pirates use so sue them also. Networking companies provide the bandwidth for pirates to trade copyrighted files so sue them also. Hey, all of these things use electricity so let's sue the electric company also!
sue linux and MS as they make the os that run on t (Score:2)
sue linux and MS as they make the os that run on 99.99% of the servers
Re: (Score:2)
And don't forget to sue Intel and AMD for running all the software involved, every step of the way from the server to the end user.
Re: (Score:2)
So do we sue the supermarket for selling him food?
Your argument would not likely sway a court.
We will see how ALS does.
The Law will allow you to go after people that help other people commit crimes.
Aiding and abetting?
Co-Conspirator.
The Internet does not shield you from the law. People have been trying to work around the law for 1000's of years.
Hitler was a vegetarian therefore vegetarianism is anti-semitic.
Re: (Score:1)
Eating vegetables makes you literally Hitler.
Re: (Score:2)
With the most recent court victory against Cox Communications, the slippery slope just got as slippery as goose shit.
This is just the tip of the iceberg with the copyright suits...
Re: (Score:2)
Copyright infringement is illegal. If Cloudflare is providing a service to a company that LEO has identified as being an illegal operation and has been told to stop, then Cloudflare is aiding a criminal operation.
I could see this law suit as having merit if Cloudflare has been made aware but continues to provide services to a company doing illegal things.
But until then, Cloudflare is doing nothing wrong by providing a legal service.
IANAL
Re:Others To Sue (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
Ok, I misspoke.
What I meant is: If a judge decides that a company is up to illegal activities and tells the company to stop then anyone working with that company in spite of this is aiding those illegal activities.
Re: (Score:2)
Ok, I misspoke.
What I meant is: If a judge decides that a company is up to illegal activities and tells the company to stop then anyone working with that company in spite of this is aiding those illegal activities.
Not quite. The company can get shut down, but only those involved in the actual illegal activity will be prosecuted.
Otherwise you'll have the janitor serving time for something they was completely unrelated to them.
As such, ALS would have to prove the CloudFlare was involved as a conspirator in the illegal activity. Otherwise, CloudFlare has done nothing wrong other than sell there own services.
So no, unless you can show that CloudFlare (or any company) for that matter was involved in the Copyright
Re: (Score:2)
As I said, I am not a lawyer.
I do understand your point and I personally agree that CF is not in the wrong here IF they have no involvement.
In the bank example, if a bank holds a criminals money and refuses to cease doing business with the criminal despite the bank's knowledge that the money is ill-gotten gains, then the bank has some culpability. No?
Re: (Score:3)
Ok, I misspoke.
What I meant is: If a judge decides that a company is up to illegal activities and tells the company to stop then anyone working with that company in spite of this is aiding those illegal activities.
Not quite. The company can get shut down, but only those involved in the actual illegal activity will be prosecuted.
Otherwise you'll have the janitor serving time for something they was completely unrelated to them.
As such, ALS would have to prove the CloudFlare was involved as a conspirator in the illegal activity. Otherwise, CloudFlare has done nothing wrong other than sell there own services.
So no, unless you can show that CloudFlare (or any company) for that matter was involved in the Copyright Infringement (or other illegal activity) then they are absolved of the supposed crime. For example, a bank holds a criminals money; is the bank then a legal conspirator (and therefore guilty) of murder for an Assassin? Or illegal drug possession or drug trafficking for a drug dealer? No. It's no different for CloudFlare and other companies; yes, they may help make websites and services more secure; but they're not participating in the crime itself in any form - no different from the bank.
You don't have to be convicted of an offence to have assets seized if you are 'supporting' an illegal endeavor; its called 'civil forfeiture'. Eg people who rent properties to drug dealers have been known to have had those properties seized without any conviction against them, just a conviction against the drug dealer and the presumption that the property owner 'should have' known about it and reported it to the police.
Hell, even driving around in the USA with some cash in your car can result in that cash b
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Spamford Wallace? (Score:3, Insightful)
This hearkens back to the mid-late 90's when Spamford Wallace was being courted by one sleazebag ISP after another. As long as he paid them handsomely, they would ignore abuse complaints. Until the blacklists came about. Someone suggested yesterday about resurrecting the Usenet Death Penalty for Cloudflare, because of their blatant protection for sleazy companies (they were talking about the company that is serving malicious ads on Slashot, that do a full page overlay and redirect you to a scam site, of which it's particularly invasive on a mobile device).
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Create DNS entries in your ISP DNS server that blackholes anything that resolves to Cloudflare. Some ISPs have a far reaching grasp, and Google operates a widely used public DNS server 8.8.8.8.
Cloudflare = criminals (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Check out this recent list of DDoS/"Stresser"/"Booter" websites proudly hosted by CloudFlare:
alphastress.com, anonymous-stresser.net, aurastresser.com, beststresser.com, boot4free.com, booter.eu, booter.org, booter.xyz, bullstresser.com, buybooters.com, cnstresser.com, connectionstresser.com, crazyamp.me, critical-boot.com, cstress.net, cyberstresser.org, darkstresser.info, darkstresser.net, databooter.com, ddos-fighter.com, ddos-him.com, ddos.city, ddosbreak.com, ddosclub.com, ddostheworld.com, defcon.pro,
This angers me (Score:5, Funny)
I looked up ALS Scan and did some research. News of this lawsuit has me sitting here just shaking my fist.
Re: (Score:1)
Not Cloud Flare's Problem (Score:5, Insightful)
If I had massive crime on the street I lived on, my responsibility would be to protect myself and my property.
Imagine that during that crime spree a a local business owner told me that a thief (that had robbed the business down the street) hid in my basement and would not leave. If the business owner came over and said "there is a thief hiding in your basement and I want to get him". I would refuse entry. I would tell him to call the police. If I did my own internal investigation and found that a thief might be hiding there, I would also choose to call the police.
However, under no foreseeable circumstances would I let the business owner in to deal with the criminal. Furthermore, if the business owner continuously asked me to check for thieves, it would be a great inconvenience for me. I would tell them to take a hike and call the police if you have real evidence.
If you really think you have a case, get a prosecutor to go after CloudFlare. Until then, CloudFlare has every right to deal with it internally or just ignore the issue.
We have seen companies using the guise of DMCA violations for sabotaging competition, corporate espionage, and more. If I were CloudFlare, I would also do all I could to remain the neutral party and just focus on serving paying customers.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Now lets say the Thief Moves in and you feed him and cloth him.
He now Robs people in the area to pay you back.
Are you aiding and abetting?
Why did YOU not can the Police?
Why did you not force him to leave?
Re: (Score:2)
So in your example every landlord who happens to rent an apartment to a thief should be charged with aiding and abetting?
What about the person who sold the thief groceries? Or clothes? Are they aiding and abetting too?
yeah... in the USA thats going to be civil forfeiture for 'proceeds of crime'.
Re: (Score:2)
How do you know he's a thief? Is there a judgement against him? I will ask one more simple question, How do you know that CD, DVD or Video that you downloaded was distributed legally. Did you read the license? Sony was selling compilations that it had not acquired a license to sell. Why did we not prosecute all the individuals who purchased these unlicensed work? How many times have we seen DMCA take down notices for work that is coming from an unauthorized source?
I as a landlord would not call the police b
Re: (Score:2)
This is very different. It's a known criminal so you are actively making the decision to help them.
The NSA and FBI (Score:1)
will step in and make sure nothing happens to CloudFlare, their favorite and biggest man-in-the-middle on the Internet. You can imagine what a trove of information they're hoovering up by offering this service, can't you? Do you really think NSA and FBI would let some money-grubbing Hollywood executives obliterate CloudFlare in court?
Cloudflare is highly visible (Score:2)
I think one of the reasons they got targeted is their gateway page which guards against DDOS is in user's face and it is obvious the service is on cloudflare. It isn't so obvious which cloud, if any, is hosting the site.
Re: (Score:2)
It isn't so obvious which cloud, if any, is hosting the site.
Or which flare, if any, is involved in criminal aiding and abetting.
Uh, what? (Score:2)
Adult entertainment outfit ALS Scan agrees and has now become the first dissenter to take CloudFlare to court.
I hope writing that caused the author as great a headache to write as reading it caused me.
Re: (Score:2)
Small fry (Score:1)
In related news... (Score:2)
Movie studios are guilty of enabling pirates by actually making movies that get pirated; DVD and camcorder makers are guilty for making things that can be used by pirates; network providers are guilty for providing the bandwidth used by pirates, etc...
"You're out of order! You're out of order! The whole trial is out of order! They're out of order!" -- or so I heard somewhere.
Greatest threat to its business (Score:2)
Cam whores.
Posting nude selfies for free instead of making all the basement dwellers go to the pay sites for pron.
Cloudflare is a man in the middle attack. (Score:2)
Cloudflare is a giant man in the middle attack happening 24/7/365 all over the internet.
Don' you find it strange they can insert captchas and other pages into what is supposedly a secure connection between you and the website you are visiting? Say, your favorite bitcoin exchange, for example.
That's because the SSL cert was issued for cloudflare's server, not the website server. After that, the traffic between cloudflare and the website may not even be encrypted at all.
But even if it encrypted, it means
Re: (Score:2)