UCLA Shooter Accused Victim Of Stealing His Computer Code 396
The gunman who shot and killed a UCLA professor on Wednesday has been identified as Mainak Sarkar, said Los Angeles police. Sarkar, a former doctoral student accused the vicitim William Klug, 39, of stealing his computer code and giving it to someone else. According to reports, Sarkar used a 9mm semiautomatic pistol to shoot the professor, and then turned the gun on himself. A March 10 blog post by Sarkar, now archived reads: William Klug, UCLA professor is not the kind of person when you think of a professor. He is a very sick person. I urge every new student coming to UCLA to stay away from this guy. [...] My name is Mainak Sarkar. I was this guy's PhD student. We had personal differences. He cleverly stole all my code and gave it another student. He made me really sick. Your enemy is your enemy. But your friend can do a lot more harm. Be careful about whom you trust.
Stole his code? (Score:5, Insightful)
They should teach software licensing to psychotic students.
If he had GPLed it first then his professor couldn't steal it.
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It depends upon how the software was created. If he was a student at the time working under the direction of his professor, then he probably can not just make it open source without permission. It's the essentiall the same as work for hire, though it is a gray area as are most things to do with being a grad student. Ie, it's possible that the original idea was the grad student's but there was payment from the school as well as input and reviews from faculty.
Being a grad student comes with a huge amount o
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Well, obviously we need a terrorist computer science profession gun control list.
We can't have all these unbalanced, introverted, jealous, code stealing folks out there running around able to buy guns in the US.
I mean, I'm surprised it took THIS long to bring this subject up, considering all the many gun related killing comp sci folks commit annually.....ESPECIALLY in the University Systems where tenure is at stake!!
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Well, obviously we need a terrorist computer science profession gun control list.
We can't have all these unbalanced, introverted, jealous, code stealing folks out there running around able to buy guns in the US.
I mean, I'm surprised it took THIS long to bring this subject up, considering all the many gun related killing comp sci folks commit annually.....ESPECIALLY in the University Systems where tenure is at stake!!
If only the professor had had a gun to defend himself with! Surely carrying a gun should be compulsory in the USA... no one is safe what with all those lunatics walking around with guns!
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I rarely carry a gun...and yet I feel pretty safe living here.
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Luckily I live in a country where that is explicitly forbidden and all code automatically belongs to the creator (unless in a work contract).
I don't think the situation is different here than in your country. You can read the UCLA copyright policy [ucla.edu]...
According to UCLA policy, the copyright on Student work is owned by the Author if it was produced by a registered student without the use of University funds (other than Student Financial Aid), that is produced outside any University employment. Includes all coursework, term papers, theses and other work, as long as the student is not employed as a participant in a sponsored project where research re
This makes no sense. (Score:2, Interesting)
In my own experience as a grad student, the terms were not unlike those at a company. The work you do in a research group belongs to the university, and it's normal practice for research codes to be passed on to other grad students for continuity within a research group. If Sarkar's code was something personal, then he could have a legitimate complaint, but the whole thing sounds fishy.
Credit, (Score:2, Insightful)
The important thing for researchers is getting credit, giving code to someone else to use is not stealing, *but claiming you made it is*. Having said that the case could have been either, we wont be able to tell for a while it is still to soon.
Re:Credit, (Score:5, Insightful)
Even better, there could've been a good reason for the "code sharing" - perhaps he was asking the other student to verify the code, or verify the results, or something.
You know, as part of the whole "reproducible results" thing - where people are asking that data and the software processing it be made open for inspection and for reproducing the results.
Or maybe the professor was continuing the research by giving it to another student to extend the research - the data and code exists, so start from that rather than reinventing the wheel.
The problem is, both the professor and the shooter are dead, which means finding out the whole truth is going to be a lot harder.
There's lot of valid reasons for "sharing" the code, which may very well have happened. Then again, stress might've cracked the shooter (finals were starting next week, apparently). ;l
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Even better, there could've been a good reason for the "code sharing" - perhaps he was asking the other student to verify the code, or verify the results, or something.
You know, as part of the whole "reproducible results" thing - where people are asking that data and the software processing it be made open for inspection and for reproducing the results.
Or maybe the professor was continuing the research by giving it to another student to extend the research - the data and code exists, so start from that rather than reinventing the wheel.
The problem is, both the professor and the shooter are dead, which means finding out the whole truth is going to be a lot harder.
There's lot of valid reasons for "sharing" the code, which may very well have happened. Then again, stress might've cracked the shooter (finals were starting next week, apparently). ;l
You have no idea how much some professors abuse their power. I have no idea if Klug did or not and not implying he did.
Add to the fact that you have international students who are essentially chained to a university and advisor by immigration laws.
Murder is another level. But, US graduate schools filled with Indian and Chinese students is quite a messed up place and some awful things going on.
Re:Credit, (Score:4, Informative)
I have been in Research groups which are full of Indians and Chinese on visas and a few locals and the professor gives the toughest thankless tasks to the Indians and Chinese and the visible conference visits to the locals. What are they gonna do? Go back home after spending thousands of dollars and giving up years of earning potential (note all of these folks are college graduates who could get 6 figure salaries but are working for less than minimum wage as grad students).
Its not racial- I have seen professors of Indian and Chinese origin do it to Indian and Chinese students and not do it to Indian Origin students who happen to be US born and hence have the right to work off campus.
The F1 system which prevent folks from working off campus needs to be reformed as it basically traps people into an apprentice system (something the unions fought long and hard against)
Professors dont treat locals like shit as locals have a choice they can just take up waitressing or taxi driving for the period of time it takes them to find a new advisor(and yes driving taxis pays more than grad research assistantships) and still carry on with their classes whereas a F1 student who loses his/her funding may have to drop out of the program and go back home
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Triggers DMCA complaint. Why?
[...]
you may read the DMCA complaint that caused the removal(s) at LumenDatabase.org.
Google told you how to find out why. Rather than asking on Slashdot maybe reading the complaint might reveal the answer?
He inserted spaces for tabs (Score:5, Funny)
Klug's real crime was that he changed all the tabs in the code to spaces before handing the code to another student.
Some developers really do not like that sort of thing.
Re: He inserted spaces for tabs (Score:2)
Yes it is!
1 tab saves 8 spaces.
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...But only seven characters.
Re: He inserted spaces for tabs (Score:2)
But when the code is compiled the space savings disappear.
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But introduces a high amount of uncertainty and screws up indenting as no one can agree on what a tab means.
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That's the type of thing people go nuts over and might even kill... oh.
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It isn't the type of thing you stop dating someone for though.
Just ask her to bring her laptop to your first date, and then check her ~/.indent.pro before the relationship gets serious.
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Tabs are better--they require less typing, and mean less risk of carpal tunnel syndrome.
and draw less chastising during video calls.
Re:He inserted spaces for tabs (Score:4, Insightful)
No, same amount of typing. Everyone uses auto-indentation anyway. Most editors have the tab do auto-indenting, only in really stupid editors (notepad) would someone type a tab to get a tab.
Also, ignore your own personal preferences and use the coding standards that your team or company has agreed upon.
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That's not a debate. No one sane would willingly admit to liking K&R style brackets.
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That's not a debate. No one sane would willingly admit to liking Allman style brackets.
FTFY.
Why is this on slasdot? (Score:2, Offtopic)
Because it is about someone who uses computers?
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Because it's so gangsta... now it's right legit to pop a cap over bros, hos, crack, or code
Unlike before when:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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I like how you can add "or code" to that line and it actually kind of rhymes.
Oh boy! Look at the media again... (Score:2, Insightful)
Funny how all of the media yesterday came right out screaming that it was a white male who had committed the shooting...nope, no evidence of bias here guys. None at all...anyone else want to bet that since the shooter is no longer white in the news cycle, you won't hear about it anymore. It's kinda like those ~400 people and 21 dead shot in Chicago in the last month.
What a fucking mess. You guys in the US really need to get your shit together over the media and their agenda carrying.
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The problem here is you. Try changing the channel.
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Pointless to argue with them. It's their narrative that's being pushed, it won't bother them till it's somebody else's narrative.
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It is pointless to argue with an idiot, as they will inevitably try to drag you down to their level, where they can beat you with experience.
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Re:Oh boy! Look at the media again... (Score:4, Funny)
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Maybe, but I thought huffpo said they were all for diversity.
Re:Oh boy! Look at the media again... (Score:4, Interesting)
Everyone knows that black people kill each-other a lot. Most of them are gang/drug related. They don't report on it because YOU don't care. That's your for-pay media. News that is 'interesting'. Your 'liberal bias' is actually quite backwards. 'You' (the public) are interested in this story. A ""collage professor"" was gunned down? Why were they targetted? A ""White guy"" killed himself after the crime? Why did he do that? The intrigue is a lot more interesting than a 16 year old black boy killing another boy because their drug gang wanted 16th and pine as their drug territory. And yes, you could quite easily invert the races of the story and get the exact same result.
Re:Oh boy! Look at the media again... (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't care, because once upon a time I did care, and was called "Racist" for pointing out the obvious. Because the only real "Black" family is completely dysfunctional and nobody in the Black Community actually wants to solve that problem because the problem itself doesn't reflect well on the black community as a whole. Black men killing each other, going to prison for hard crimes, and so on, leaving single women unable to get better educated because they are pregnant and on welfare because the dads are dead, in prison or simply hooked up with another woman.
The solution is simple, but labeled "racist". Fix the fucking family disintegration caused by all the "progressive programs" that are designed to "help" but instead lock people into a dysfunctional system, creating a feedback loop that looks impossible to solve otherwise. Yeah, I don't care anymore, because if THEY don't care about fixing the problem themselves, and resist my suggestions because I am "white" (and don't forget, racist), why should I actually care?
The Black population votes nearly lockstep (70-90%) with the DNC, which keeps offering the same tired solutions. One popular definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. Tell me, how is THIS any different? 50 years and three or four generations of Progressive "Help" and the black community is in as bad a shape as it was 60 years ago. Perhaps worse. Tell me, how is that working out for you?
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I don't care, because once upon a time I did care, and was called "Racist" for pointing out the obvious. Because the only real "Black" family is completely dysfunctional and nobody in the Black Community actually wants to solve that problem because the problem itself doesn't reflect well on the black community as a whole.
It'd probably help if you weren't so obviously disdainful towards them.
Really, you say NOBODY in the Black Community actually wants to solve that problem. That's not a nuanced criticism, it's a widespread condemnation of all of them.
But...that means either you are ignorant of the efforts that do exist, or you're calling the ones who do try that approach liars. Which is it?
Of course, it also seems that you are blaming them, solely, and ignoring any of the comments or concerns that there are problems outsid
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My parents had degrees in sociology from the 60's and 70's. I knew this when I was 3 years old.
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Platitudes "We're the democrats, vote for us, we'll help you" ?
Before you cast stones, make sure the house isn't made of glass. Tell me, in the last 50 years, are blacks better off, worse off, or the same? Because from the sound of the BLM, Black Community leaders, and so on, everything is worse now than ever (I happen to agree). The problem is that a symptom is being treated, and not the disease. The death of the Black Family has crippled that community. But since you can't or won't admit that the problem
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Re:Oh boy! Look at the media again... (Score:4, Insightful)
Funny how you seem to think that the most important detail of a shooting story is the person's race, as if that means something in terms of condemning/exonerating persons of that/other races.
Funny how you seem to have taken that as the most important thing out of the post I wrote. Boy oh boy, that's sure one mess I'm making. But it sure seems to me you're very focused on race though. So it's also my fault that the media was painting that picture yesterday? Damn, didn't know I had such power. Oh wait...I don't. Don't be a retard, or would you prefer I just say "don't be mentally slow" or maybe I can point you in the direction of a safe space instead?
Re:Oh boy! Look at the media again... (Score:4, Insightful)
LOL it certainly was for the reporters. Isn't odd how they were willing to report on race and religion when they thought they were one thing but began erasing the details when it turned out it was otherwise ?
What was the code anyways? (Score:3)
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As soon as he saw
void main ()
he knew the only rational explanation was theft of his code.
Under the circumstances? (Score:2)
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In fairness to the shooter, I also go nuts when someone checks in sh*t that won't compile properly.
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Actually it seems as though he knew exactly how to deal with the loss
Re:What was the code anyways? (Score:4, Informative)
I just want to know what level of crazy this person really was. Did he really have a novel piece of code, and just didn't know how to deal with the loss. Or are we dealing with a nutcase who saw a fellow student use a linked list the same way he did, and assumed that they must have gotten it from the teacher.
He was a doctoral student. So, the code was probably few thousand hours of work over 2-3 years of research. Not a trivial homework code.
the dark side of arduino (Score:5, Interesting)
https://arduinohistory.github.... [github.io]
worth a read. I had no idea massimo stole the idea from his student.
I think a lot less of massimo now, sad to say. yeah, he messed up the top .1 spaced headers (a crime in itself) but taking a student's work and calling it your own, that's really something to be publicly shamed over.
and yet, massimo does world tours claiming he's the arduino inventor guy.
just read the student's post about how HE came up with the concepts and had it stolen from him. I feel for him and I can imagine that happening, too.
Re:the dark side of arduino (Score:5, Informative)
https://arduinohistory.github.... [github.io]
worth a read. I had no idea massimo stole the idea from his student.
I think a lot less of massimo now, sad to say. yeah, he messed up the top .1 spaced headers (a crime in itself) but taking a student's work and calling it your own, that's really something to be publicly shamed over.
and yet, massimo does world tours claiming he's the arduino inventor guy.
just read the student's post about how HE came up with the concepts and had it stolen from him. I feel for him and I can imagine that happening, too.
The student may have gotten shafted in the history though I'm not sure it's right to say his work was stolen.
The student master's project consisted of creating a platform called Wired, this platform was released as open source.
The supervisor, who certainly had some significant input and guidance on the project, forked the Wired project and turned it into Arduino. This is a completely standard and proper thing to do with open source projects, heck I've done it. There are two different visions for the project, forking means that both have a chance to succeed, it would seems that Arduino was the more successful vision.
It could be something similar happened here, though obviously with a bunch of other personal issues added on the part of the shooter. Sarkar was working on a project and had some conflicts with his supervisor. The supervisor decided to put another student on the project. Sarkar felt like his work was being stolen and had some sort of break down.
It's tragic but I don't see any evidence that the supervisor did anything wrong other than not knowing how to help a student who was in a really bad state.
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You can't "steal" an unpatented idea concerning a micro-environment running open-sourced code.
From your linked article:
Re:the dark side of arduino (Score:4)
The conclusion is rather simple: when talking about Aduino, the first thing from Banzi's, or anyone else involved in development of the project, should be "hey, it all started with the thesis of this Colombian guy, Hernando Barragán". That's all it'd take to be fair to Hernando. Nothing less. Nothing more. I happen to agree with Hernando. He doesn't wish fame nor prominence, nor a revenue stream from Arduino: just simple human acknowledgment.
UC: students own the copyrights in their works (Score:2, Informative)
From the UCLA copyright information [university...fornia.edu]: "At UC, students generally own the copyrights in their creative works, including theses and dissertations. Any works produced by a registered student without the use of university funds (other than Student Financial Aid) is the intellectual property of the student."
But we don't (yet?) know what really went down.
Re:UC: students own the copyrights in their works (Score:4, Informative)
"Any works produced by a registered student without the use of university funds (other than Student Financial Aid) is the intellectual property of the student."
That's likely more aimed at undergrads. Grad students working with a faculty member are probably doing so while receiving funding as an RA.
Unstable people are dangerous. (Score:2)
This guy was incredibly unstable and sound like over the top paranoid. Maybe even Schizophrenic.
Sick people do sick things.
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They evidently can't read either. Didn't he know he was entering a "gun free zone"? If he'd seen the signs saying guns were not allowed he would've undoubtedly stopped and rethought his actions.
Clearly we need more signs and enhanced reading programs so people can be sure to see them and be able to read them clearly. That will stop all gun crime for sure.
Academic plagiarism (Score:3, Insightful)
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Academic plagiarism is a huge issue and very common. I have even seen different academic departments (e.g. math vs physics) fight each other over these issues. When undergrad students and graduate students do work for a professor and are not named in the paper or the work is given to another student for use and publication, students have no recourse. It is important to understand that many grad students have no grant or employment contract which cedes IP rights to the university/professor. University in-house counsel and IP departments have no oversight of publication or assignment of credit. I would only perform work for a professor (for free without an employment contract) if I could demand a contract outlining ownership.
I would say the example of academic fraud you describe is "not uncommon." What is common is competing academic groups commonly do this. One might be on the funding-proposal review panel of a competitor's proposal. It gets rejected. Two to three years later, out comes a journal article reporting the exact same study (question & how to answer it). That's not complete evidence, but raises reasonable suspicions.
I've had it happen to me several times. Other times, a "potential collaborator or funder" h
I wish people would recognize... (Score:5, Insightful)
...that we have a serious culture-of-crazy-people-willing-to-kill-over-nothing problem; unfortunately, it's too politically useful to interpret it as a "gun problem".
Re:I wish people would recognize... (Score:5, Informative)
Of note: According to the FBI crime statistics, violent crime has been dropping steadily [fbi.gov] from 1993 through 2012. Crime, it seems, is not up at all - the media is just covering every single event with breathless desperation to make us think that there's some sort of massive, unheard-of epidemic going on. It's agenda driven, you can be sure.
I think the USA should be lauded for this kind of progress. There's more work to be done, of course - one shooting is always one too many - but we're definitely on the right trajectory.
Re:Mental illness (Score:5, Insightful)
We're dealing with a lunatic here. It's possible the professor did nothing wrong at all. I knew someone who was convinced a teacher was stealing his work because the college he went to uses Google Drive. Once people have a psychotic break of some kind and start down the road to paranoia and persecution, reality simply takes a back seat, if it even exists for them at all.
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UCLA provides the full Google suite: Apps, Drive, email, Earth Pro, and all the rest.
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This guy had a kill list. The professor didn't push this guy over the edge. He was already crazy.
he also had a hit list and murdered a woman (Score:2)
Re:Mental illness (Score:4, Informative)
Well damn fool write some more code... your code is not like bodily fluids it is not that precious.
In Engineering and Computer Science, code is quite valuable, particularly in PhD programs where the requirement is to demonstrate 5-10% new information as part of the program and do it within 6 years.
Depending on the complexity of the work.. the code could potentially be worth a lot of money and taking quite a few years to perfect.
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And the penalty for copyright infringement is clearly death. I mean, duh.
Re:Mental illness (Score:4, Interesting)
Someone steals your work (assuming that info is correct)
The system doesn't care (assuming he reported it, and they all said "tough shit" or similar)
You have two choices, take it in the ass like a bitch whore, or go on a rampage to bring attention to the cause.
Now, before you go down the road of picking one side or another, the common theme these days, for wrongs committed but never addressed by the powers that be is to riot. Ferguson, Philly, Trevon, hell, even Trump. And while murder itself wasn't a direct result (that we know of) of these violent acts of protest, they were and are all violent acts of protest, and all fairly excused by implied consent among large parts of the population.
No, I am not trolling here, the fact is, violent protests are more or less excused, and keep occurring because of that tacit approval that as long as the "wrong" is enough, violence is justifiable, at least to some degree.
Now, my view is that VIOLENCE is the last resort of a free people, not the first course of action; Boxes: soap, ballot, jury, ammo ... in that order.
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Are you sure you're not confusing the word "justifiable" with "understandable"? This is a very common thing to do.
For this UCLA incident, I'm not sure many people would say it's either one, but riots are a different story.
Political/socioeconomic-related riots are rarely a measure of first resort. We only think this way, because the riot itself is what makes the big headlines. But riots are usually triggered in a society that already have problems, and a singular event ended up being the one that broke the c
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If something is understandable, it is justified by definition (IMHO). I do not understand rioting, looting as a form of protest. I understand that others find it understandable, but I find it completely horrific. There is NO justification that supports rioting in protest, because that solves NOTHING, and so, I don't understand it. I do understand people are frustrated, often exceedingly so. If that is a explanation that is understandable, that is itself tacit or implicit acceptance that rioting is a solutio
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IMHO, the age of University is quickly dying. While it will likely never completely disappear, the structure is likely to really be different in the next 40 years. The whole world's knowledge is at our fingertips, all we have to do is look. Do not let school get in the way of your education.
Today, I've learned a little bit about AstroPhysics, Biology, Philosophy, and a tad about History. Yesterday, I learned something about cooking, gardening, and health/wellness.
I've learned more in the last year, than I d
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He should have just filed a complaint under the DMCA. Can't have people stealing Intellectual Property, after all!
Re:Betrayal (Score:5, Insightful)
Why are you assuming what this obviously deranged person said actually represents the facts?
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I'd go with playing odds on this one.
Re: Not the only one dead (Score:4, Insightful)
Alas many posts from many people are rather crazy, yet very few of their authors go shoot people.
How do you tell one from the other ahead of time?
Re:Wow, a page from the Valery Fabrikant (Score:5, Informative)
The UCLA shooter, Mainak Sarkar, apparently had a list [weaselzippers.us] he was working his way down. His ex girlfriend has been found dead, and was on his list. He's a Muslim from India, BTW, though Islam seems to be a coincidence for once.
Of course, it's still early, and more details always come to light in the week following a shooting, but this really looks like a guy settling all his grudges on his way out.
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Bullshit. Sarcar is a Hindu Surname
Re:Wow, a page from the Valery Fabrikant (Score:5, Insightful)
Not really a coincidence. Islam demands men seek retribution for their honor. It's one thing Muslim men take seriously.
Over-generalization is always a bad idea. ;)
Many recent shootings have been clearly tied to this sort of BS, no argument there, but those were accompanied by declarations of faith - the motivation wasn't at all unclear. This one is different (so far, anyway, it's still early days). Not everyone who lists a religion on a form actually cares about the tenets of their religion - heck, I'd bet most don't. I'm suspicious given the recent pattern, but let's go with facts as they emerge over assumption.
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We in America are only now really seeing what Islam really is... We will see more crimes like this from Muslims. Look at the UK and Germany, where it's now illegal to call this stuff out or face charges of hate speech.
You do realize there are over 3 million Muslims in the United States, right?
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1% of the population in the us vs 5% of the population in the uk, that's a big difference. That said I don't think muslim is the problem here. It's just a shield to hide their own personal violence behind.
Re:Wow, a page from the Valery Fabrikant (Score:5, Insightful)
You do realize there are over 3 million Muslims in the United States, right?
And too many radicalized Conservatives think these peaceful Muslims, many of whom escaped hellholes to live here, are all out to get us.
We should ask where our Conservatives were radicalized in the same way we look into how some Muslims get radicalized. I'm pretty sure hate-radio, wingnut blogs, and Fox News are the cause.
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The US thankfully doesn't get the more unsavory Muslims from abroad in the numbers that Europe does. It's a lot harder to just walk to us. But this is one of the leading reasons they think the US hasn't seen the same or as many issues from Muslims here as they are seeing in Europe.
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There are a few religions with their own country that have seats in the UN, but Islam isn't one of them.
And there are some people that will lie, cheat, steal, and hurt you, but hey don't exclusively belong to any group. They are mixed in among everyone and the most dangerous ones are the ones that wear the same clothes as you.
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Re: Wow, a page from the Valery Fabrikant (Score:3)
Re:Wow, a page from the Valery Fabrikant (Score:5, Insightful)
Not really a coincidence. Islam demands men seek retribution for their honor. It's one thing Muslim men take seriously.
So do Texans, you don't see calls to build a wall around Texas every time someone gets killed in a bar fight.
Look at the number of girls killed by their own fathers because of perceived honor.
And in those cases there is a clear religious/cultural motive.
This is nothing new. We in America are only now really seeing what Islam really is. I was in and around the US military for 26 years. One thing I know for absolute certain that is not being discussed is that Islam is not really a religion--it's a political system with a religious element. Islam and its adherents base their actions on Sharia Law. Full stop. The media is very, very reluctant to point this out.
Isn't the US having a big debate about gay marriage? There seems to be a lot of arguments popping up based on Christian law.
Sure most Islamic nations take it a bit further, as do many Muslims. There's also a lot of Muslims trying to go the other way as well.
Notice the difference between how Islam and Christianity are treated today in the US. Ask yourself this question: What do you think homosexual activists are not asking Muslim bakers to bake them a cake for their weddings? Do you honestly think that this line of action would even be considered? There answer is no.
Those activists are trying to change laws and establish new norms. You do that by confronting the majority, not by picking fights with a small politically irrelevant minority.
For those not believing what I said above about Islam being a political system with a religious element need to look at this for themselves. You will come to see I am correct. The military used to operate under this understanding, but the current administration has forbidden this. Why? We all know why. This administration does nothing but coddle Islam, refuses to use the term "Islamic terrorism", allows a known terrorist organization, the Muslim Brotherhood into the WH, the list goes on.
They're trying to end fights, not start them.
You're basing this whole idea on speculation around the shooter's specific beliefs and motives, truthfully we have no idea of his specific motives or beliefs aside from the fact he probably agreed that the label "Muslim" described some of them.
Of course having that label "Muslim" I'm certain that a particular political candidate won't be able to keep their mouth shut.
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Re:Wow, a page from the Valery Fabrikant (Score:5, Insightful)
Notice the difference between how Islam and Christianity are treated today in the US. Ask yourself this question: What do you think homosexual activists are not asking Muslim bakers to bake them a cake for their weddings?
You know who else they're not asking? Jews. Hindus. Buddhists. Sikhs. Taoists. Jains. Zoroastrians. Satanists. Wiccans.
Clearly it's not Muslims that are getting some special treatment here, it's Christians. But is it because of some hypothesized 'War on Christianity'?
Or is it the fact that 70.6% of the US population is some form of Christian, and another 22.8% is unaffiliated with any religion. That leaves 6.6% of the US population split across all of the world's various other religions. Indeed, only 0.9% of the US population adheres to Islam. We should expect 1 in every 111 targets of homosexual-activists-asking-people-to-bake-them-gay-cakes to be Muslim. Are you suggesting that you're aware of this many such events, as well as the religious leanings of every baker targeted this way?
Of course, these estimates assume uniform distribution of religious minorities, gay activists, and homophobic bakers. If you actually had the demographic data to not rely on such a simplistic assumption, I wouldn't be surprised if the odds of targeting a Muslim baker were even lower-still (as I suspect that religious minorities are more well-represented in areas that are more tolerant, and that gay activists would be attempting this baking schtick in areas that are less tolerant).
But this is all conjecture. I fully grant that it's entirely possible that you're right and no gay rights activists are targeting Muslim bakers because Muslim bakers inspire such a profoundly deep fear in their enemies.
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I'll tell you the primary power difference between Christianity and Islam:
1) Jesus said, "Render to Caesar what is Caesar and to God what is God's". This cleaves the core religion from government. Jesus was a single, poor itinerant preacher who was crucified between thieves. One can be a good Christian and accept a separation of church and state.
2) Muhammad was a political and military leader who created a religion which also was a system of government. There can be no separation of church and state in
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It's because they do that sideways shooting shit. Can't hit the broadside of a barn.
Re:Wow, a page from the Valery Fabrikant (Score:5, Funny)
Hey guys, look! An HTML Wizard is amongst us!
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Hey guys, look! An HTML Wizard is amongst us!
Meh, I don't think HTTP will ever replace Gopher. No sense ever learning HTML; it'll be Gopher and Fortran forever.
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I must commend you on writing so clearly. With you obviously having an IQ below 50 that kind of performance is impressive.
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Whooooooosh.