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The Courts Crime Government Privacy

Hidden FBI Microphones Exposed In California (cbslocal.com) 205

An anonymous reader writes: "Federal agents are planting microphones to secretly record conversations," reports CBS Local, noting that for 10 months starting in 2010, FBI agents hid microphones inside light fixtures, and also at a bus stop outside the Oakland Courthouse, to record conversations without a warrant. "They put microphones under rocks, they put microphones in trees, they plant microphones in equipment," a security analyst and former FBI special agent told CBS Local. "I mean, there's microphones that are planted in places that people don't think about, because thats the intent!" Federal authorities are currently investigating fraud and bid-rigging charges against a group of real estate investors, and the secret recordings came to light when they were submitted as evidence. "Private communication in a public place qualifies as a protected 'oral communication'..." says one of the investor's lawyers, "and therefore may not be intercepted without judicial authorization."
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Hidden FBI Microphones Exposed In California

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  • Surely they can't admit they've planted it there.
    • Mic Hammer (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      They can admit it, as this came to light as the article explains when the recordings were submitted as evidence.

      It would be nice to have a crowdsourced google map however. Anyone know how to set one of those up?

      Along those lines, california is a two-party consent state for wiretapped conversation [dmlp.org]-- this sounds like a zero-party consent program. Even in a public space, you can't record private conversations without both parties being aware and consenting to the practice. So I wonder if this involves some

  • And also... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by hcs_$reboot ( 1536101 ) on Sunday May 15, 2016 @02:39AM (#52114451)
    They put a microphone in my iPhone.
    • They put a microphone in my iPhone.

      "Hey Siri. Call the local FBI Branch Office."

      iPhone is not the only one (TVs, game systems, other smartphones). "Hey Siri" is disabled by default, and only works when the iPhone is plugged-in to a power source. People are griping about this, but it is a very reasonable way to implement the feature. It means that Siri is not listening to your every word, all day long, as you walk around.

    • by Burz ( 138833 )

      To some people, [twitter.com] that would be "put it back in my iPhone". (People who remove their internal mic, which I think is smart.)

  • What this really means is that there is a group of people who are encroaching upon a wealthier and better-connected group of people's interest. And the FBI, serving its purpose, is being used as a tool to prevent competition.

    Mod up the truth.

    • by Mashiki ( 184564 )

      Depends, do you live in Canada? If so, then protecting you from real estate investors is actually a strong possibility. [theglobeandmail.com] Very likely at that. [theglobeandmail.com] I can't really say for the US, but right now here in Canada with housing prices that have broken US bubble levels in quite a few big cities, when the crash comes it's going to be spectacular.

  • by Bruce66423 ( 1678196 ) on Sunday May 15, 2016 @03:24AM (#52114551)

    The FBI is doing it, so it must be legal... /sarcasm

    It's time that these abuses of rights were charged as criminal offences. Sadly this requires an organisation with the ability to investigate the FBI and bring charges. The US constitution gives that power to a grand jury, but it would be a brave prosecutor who enpanelled one to do it.Oh well - here's hoping...

    • by currently_awake ( 1248758 ) on Sunday May 15, 2016 @10:18AM (#52115555)
      They bugged places where you can reasonably expect lawyers would be having private conversations with their clients, this is illegal under federal law. Spying on lawyers is a dangerous game, also known as "winning the lottery".
    • by taustin ( 171655 )

      Audio recordings without the permission of all participants is illegal in many states. It's a misdemeanor in some. In California, and only in California, it's a felony.

      All the talk over the last few years about various wingnut states making it a felony for federal law enforcement to enforce federal gun laws, and the more realistic chance we have to prosecute FBI agents for doing their jobs illegally come from California.

      Not that it'll happen. California is run by California Democrats, who love overreaching

  • The Overton Window (Score:5, Interesting)

    by hidflect ( 769917 ) on Sunday May 15, 2016 @03:32AM (#52114571)
    In the 1980's a high-rise Telecom building with no windows opened in my city and it had security cameras in the lobby to film anyone entering. This was ostensibly because communications hubs were considered a strategic civil asset to be defended from attack. Do you know that a lot of people refused to enter the building or take jobs there because they thought it was a violation to be recorded without their consent (banks notwithstanding)? A couple of years later it was a non issue. Now the cameras record us on the streets and nobody minds. Trepidatious at first, the authorities have found that there is little or no pushback at all to the encroachment on our privacies and rights and they're ramming home the intrusions while they can.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 15, 2016 @03:59AM (#52114631)

      ...Now the cameras record us on the streets and nobody minds.

      speak for yourself...It isn't that 'nobody minds' it's more 'we can't do a bloody thing about it'. Big, big difference.

      • by BlueStrat ( 756137 ) on Sunday May 15, 2016 @05:40AM (#52114781)

        .It isn't that 'nobody minds' it's more 'we can't do a bloody thing about it'. Big, big difference.

        It's not a matter of "can't do anything about it" but "won't do anything about it".

        There's always civil disobedience as in smashing these cameras and microphones. Sure, you might go to jail for a while if caught, but so what? The jail is being built around you. You're going to be there whether or not you fight. The thing is, if you fight, the jail time (if caught) will be temporary, if you don't fight, it will be permanent and inescapable.

        "Did you exchange a walk-on part in the war
        for a lead role in a cage?"

        - Pink Floyd: Wish You Were Here

        Freedom is not "free". Hashtags don't do crap but massage your conscience. Making it too costly and impractical to implement and maintain for little to no return works.

        Strat

        • Is there any way to electronically monkeywrench cameras? Some way to fuck with automatic gain control so that the image isn't any good, some kind of discreet light source that could be aimed in their direction or omnidirectionally if you didn't know where it was?

          Smashing them physically seems kind of counterproductive, as it has a lot of risk and may result in the camera being moved or hardened in a way that makes smashing impractical. Plus monitoring systems may flag a down camera, especially an IP one.

          I

    • > Do you know that a lot of people refused to enter the building or take jobs there because they thought it was a violation to be recorded without their consent (banks notwithstanding)?

      how do you know that?

    • Camera's recording us in public is not an issue. You are in public.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 15, 2016 @03:48AM (#52114609)

    This kind of BS is behaviour I'd expect from an Eastern Bloc dictatorship rather than a Western liberal democracy. I say that reluctantly because invoking East Germany or the USSR is usually a sign of hyperbole. But ... what other countries plant hidden mics in trees to track citizens rather than aliens?

    • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 15, 2016 @08:43AM (#52115209)
      When I was young, we'd make fun of the need for people in the USSR to present papers when travelling around. Now we do it every time we fly. Similarly, we would tell horror stories of German STASI surveillance, but now the NSA and FBI have surveillance mechanisms that far surpass those the Germans ever had.
      • I suspect that plenty of people, if you told them that, would be like "Yay, we sure stuck it to them thar krauts! Number one!".

        • I suspect that plenty of people, if you told them that, would be like "Yay, we sure stuck it to them thar krauts! Number one!".

          Actually, for the last week or two, all of Eastern Europe has been mourning the 70th Anniversary of the defeat of Hitler, for which they paid a very heavy price.

          It is in some ways very fortunate that Hitler was stupid enough to open up a second, Eastern front in this gigantic war – by back-stabbing the 20th Century's other most heinous monsters – Stalin.

          Ground troops and tanks, mostly. Sieges of major cities for two, three, or more years. More deaths were from starvation than from bullets

          • Fail. Nothing really to do with WW2, you idiot.

            • Fail. Nothing really to do with WW2, you idiot.

              You missed my point entirely. I was responding to the tone of the reply just above mine:

              Hognoxious: I suspect that plenty of people, if you told them that, would be like "Yay, we sure stuck it to them thar krauts! Number one!".

              That is, I was noting that many people are not jumping up-and-down shouting "Yay" about Hitler (Hobnoxious: "... we sure stuck it to [the] krauts!"). Hobnoxious was the one to bring in WW2, and at a very inappropriate time.

              And to reply to your statement of in-applicability of WW2 to this thread: I agree. It was primarily after WW2 that the neighbor-spying, Stasi, citizenry-spying, and all the rest occurred.

  • by rtb61 ( 674572 ) on Sunday May 15, 2016 @04:31AM (#52114681) Homepage

    What they are doing is quite interesting legally speaking. So what are the realistic expectations of privacy in a public space, why would a sound recording differ from a video recording. The second point, the fine point about randomly recording events at a specific location, rather than specifically targeting an individual, does that public location have an expectation of privacy. The legal fine point, you sit in a public space with a smart phone and make a call, does someone sitting close by have an expectation that you will stop using your phone so as not accidentally capture and transmit their communications with someone else.

    So cheeky but not really illegal as they are continuously recording a public space and have no control over who wanders into it and what they do or say in it, no different to a video security camera, so add in a microphone and is a security camera that monitors public space illegal.

    Police have a duty to monitor public space and citizens had a right to monitor police in that public space. A fixed microphone at a location versus a mobile one tracking a specific individual. By happen stance when recording bird song in a public park I recorded two people plotting a murder, keep in mind the recording was purposeful but not targeted at a specific individual, except if you take into account the private communications of those birds. So provide that recording to the police or destroy for invading the privacy of those individuals plotting the murder, so which is the greater crime, invading someone's privacy or accessory before the fact to a crime, specifically in this case a murder.

    • by Antique Geekmeister ( 740220 ) on Sunday May 15, 2016 @05:44AM (#52114797)

      > So what are the realistic expectations of privacy in a public space,

      The legal limitations seem to depend very much on the state. Unless the records were of people personally aware that they were being recorded, or at least one party was aware of the recording, I cannot see how the FBI's recordings of _personal_ conversations meets even the minimum requirements of states wehre a single party can record without the knowledge of the other party. In states where both parties must consent to record a personal conversation, I don't see any way these recordings could have been legal.

      If there were public speeches being recorded, it would be very different. But the bus stop outside a court house is a prime place to record personal conversations of plaintiffs or defendants, or their attorneys, in legal matters. It could be clear violation of attorney-client privilege if they recorded such conversations. I'm frankly unsurprised that the .FBI committed such acts, they've repeatedly demonstrated their incompetence and willingness to violate the law to pursue "big fish". What startles me is that they revealed the surveillance in court: anyone who's ever discovered criminal violations, or workplace improprieties through accidental or deliberate illegal surveillance knows to gather other evidence legally, now that you know where to dig for that evidence, and use the legally obtained information for termination or prosecution. That is what "confidential informants" and "anonymous tips" are often used for, to provide plausible deniability of criminal activity by investigating officers or manipulative personnel managers.

      • > So what are the realistic expectations of privacy in a public space,

        The legal limitations seem to depend very much on the state. Unless the records were of people personally aware that they were being recorded, or at least one party was aware of the recording, I cannot see how the FBI's recordings of _personal_ conversations meets even the minimum requirements of states wehre a single party can record without the knowledge of the other party. In states where both parties must consent to record a personal conversation, I don't see any way these recordings could have been legal.

        They are the feds and there laws and rules trump a state's. If they are allowed to do so by federal law or regulation then there isn't a lot a state can do about it.

      • by taustin ( 171655 )

        I believe the federal standard is "one party consent." California, however, is "all parties consent," and it's the only state where it's a felony to violate that requirement.

    • by phayes ( 202222 )

      Oh, look! An adult posting on slashdot!

      Clearly, the opinions of a defense attorney are not to be taken as established law as TFA attempts to do. We're clearly in a gray area here that will only be defined as lawful/unlawful in a decade or two when a case makes it up to the USSC. Or who knows, congress may actually come out with a law giving clear guidance... Yeah, I know, I jest, I jest...

    • Would that matter if it's a two party state in regards to audio recordings? There's a reason all those cameras in gas stations etc don't record audio, some states require permission from both parties (not just the one recording), or they run afoul of wiretap laws if I remember correctly. Caveat: IAANAL
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by hidflect ( 769917 )
      You've never read "1984" then. A particular plot point rotates around the fear that the government is listening to the protagonists when they are in a field. It's intended to be creepy and scary. Which it is. But here you are, "We have nothing to fear from the Secret Security Service!" Jawohl!
      • by Burz ( 138833 )

        Indeed... http://www.newscientist.com/ar... [newscientist.com]
        Earlier this year, Microflown's researchers discovered by chance that the device can hear, record or stream an ordinary conversation from as far away as 20 metres, says Hans-Elias de Bree, the firm's co-founder. Signal-processing software filters out unwanted noise like wind or traffic commotion. Work is now underway to increase the range. ...

        "Not only could this work, it has worked," says Ron Barrett-Gonzalez at the University of Kansas. He has helped boost the se

    • by taustin ( 171655 )

      There is a legal distinction between video an audio recordings. It may not make sense to you, hell it may not make sense to the people who passed the laws, but it's there.

  • ...The ESP 8266-12E has a nifty 1V analogue input where you can attach a microphone to it with very little extra parts (we're talking a resistor and a cap here), and you have a powerful WiFi unit with an onboard 80MHz processor and 4mbit ram...guess what? It can connect to an encrypted WiFI connection, costs less than 2 dollars and with Arduino is so easy to code that a kid can do it.

    You know...welcome to the brave new world where EVERYONE can listen to ANYONE.
  • Federal authorities are currently investigating fraud and bid-rigging charges against a group of real estate investors, and the secret recordings came to light when they were submitted as evidence

    Which makes such evidence inadmissible...

    If I were an FBI agent promised a decent reward for making the lawsuit go away, maybe, I would've thought up a scheme like this... I'd demonstrate the zeal and the willingness to bend the rules (and the Constitution) — and the charges would be dismissed because the primary evidence will be thrown out.

    I may get fired for the failure, maybe even reprimanded for the rule-bending, but not prosecuted for the bribery, which no one will even suspect...

    • >Which makes such evidence inadmissible...

      That's what 'parallel construction' is for.

      • by Qzukk ( 229616 )

        Which they somehow forgot to do and went for the hail-mary of telling the court "uhhh, we just recorded everything everyone said and hoped we heard something good"

        I would be tempted to agree with mi on this, but honestly after seeing the behavior of the FBI with respect to Apple, it seems that the current game plan at the agency is to just beat their head on walls until someone installs a door where they want it. I'm sure that they hope the outcome of this case will be that they can go to the public and te

  • It's frightening that a federal group paid with taxpayer dollars, that was instituted to protect the law, now seems to break it with impunity. I fear for our future as it doesn't look like anyone is protecting the people anymore.
  • Local cops I assume are the ones who bug booths in diners and those juke boxes that allow you to select tunes from your booth but play from a central location are also rigged. I can't complain. Six well armed individuals got out of a car to rob the business that I managed. the cops were all over them before they got to the front door as they had recorded the scheme in a dinner.
  • WTF? I thought we lived in a free society?
  • BUT we've become the frogs in the slowing warming pot of water it seems.

  • Feds, police, NSA, CIA, DOD, etc will attempt to cheat corners on gathering intelligence. Why?
    Because it is SO DAMN HARD to get it in the first place. However, where I have a REAL issue is that FBI, Police, CIA, and DOD all have weapons, and all sorts of political will be behind them.
    OTOH, NSA, does NOT carry weapons, other than for personal protection. NSA's job is just to acquire intel as well as safeguard our systems (which they are failing on the later). NSA's intel is used for national security, as

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