Docs: Responding To Katrina, FBI Made Cell Phone Surveillance Its Priority 84
v3rgEz writes: There's a lot of lessons that the federal government should have learned in the aftermath of Katrina. Increased domestic surveillance, however, appears to be the one the FBI took to heart, using the natural disaster as a justification for ramping up its use of Stingray cell phone tracking throughout Louisiana after the storm, according to documents released under FOIA to MuckRock.
What else would the FBI (Score:5, Insightful)
Federal Bureau of Investigation take away?
They are not FEMA, or any relief organization, they investigate crimes. Of course they found something that would make it easier for them to investigate, damn our rights in the process.
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Sure it can (Score:2)
First, Stingray [wikipedia.org] is now a 'generic' term for these sorts of devices. So I'd be careful about claiming they all have the same functionality, or lack of it.
Second, operating as a bridge is actually the primary usage mode when operating in 'active' mode - where it 'forces' phones to connect to it instead of the normal tower.
Third, from what I remember, at least the first ones were built off of standard mobile cell tower systems, just with extra intercepts and data recording equipment.
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How do you propose it does a man in the middle attack and NOT work as a bridge?
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Just after Katrina hit and for at least a month or more afterwards, pretty much you could NOT do voice calls if you had a 504 area code.
It was shortly after this hit that I actually discovered texting which I'd not done much of before.
I found that people I could not call....I could text and at least get info to them on how to call me at a land line where I was staying (out of state) till things got normal again.
But no, fo
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Federal Bureau of Investigation take away?
They are not FEMA, or any relief organization, they investigate crimes. Of course they found something that would make it easier for them to investigate, damn our rights in the process.
Easiest way for us to respond properly is to cut funding for this kind of bullshit.
Problem with that theory is the United States invented the concept of massive debt, so lack of funding isn't likely to stop a damn thing.
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I think Romans invented massive debt...
see where it got them?
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I think Romans invented massive debt...
see where it got them?
uhm, someone named romani went to the house??
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It says "Romans go home!"
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Bloody Romans...what did they ever give us?
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Was that before or after they went in for counterfeit money...issued by the government. (They decreased the proportion of gold in their money and lied about it.)
(I'm not saying your wrong, I'm saying it's not the first government to go into debt, and it's not the first citizenry to go into debt, so I need a better characterization of "massive debt".)
Arggh! "you're", not "your"! (Score:2)
Sorry for the slip.
Re:What else would the FBI (Score:5, Interesting)
Never let a crisis go to waste.
Of course the FBI is going to order stuff they think is useful. And they're going to cover it in the usual law and order gloss. Not that I think stingrays are the best way to spend money, but one does assume that organized crime is also going to look at the chaos triggered by the hurricane in order to do more of whatever it is that they usually do. Therefore the FBI needs to be prepared.
And the will likely use cell phones. Hence the stingrays.
If you look closer, you will undoubtedly find that every Federal agency used Katrina as an excuse to order all sorts of useful toys.
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Hey there, bucko - if the FBI could have prevented Hurricane Katrina with the use of Stingray gear, don't be so quick to get up on your civil rights high horse there and condemn it - the loss of life and property damage was pretty terrible!
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Please explain the technical aspects of how FBI stingrays could prevent either a massive hurricane or levee break.
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Of all the Patriot act increased surveillence practices made legal after 9/11, the FBI to my knowledge has not used a single one against a suspected terrorist, yet you will find reams of evidence of use of these tactics in drug investigations.
The war on drugs has perverted law enforcement, now all time and money is spent on the crimes (drug crime) that pays the officers themselves.
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stingrays are only useful for going around the requirement of having permits. the cellphone operator company has all the information -and more- anyways.
so it's only useful if you don't have permit.
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"one does assume that organized crime is also going to look at the chaos triggered by the hurricane in order to do more of whatever it is that they usually do. Therefore the FBI needs to be prepared."
I would argue that the MO of organized crime is not to try to identify where every federal and state emergency and law enforcement agency is flooding all of their resources and personnel and then join that party. Their intention is to make money, not be supervillans. They need things like funtional infrastructu
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Our Rights don't matter to the political class. They are in it to secure power and exercise it. The (D) and (R) parties are clearly on the same team.
Sounds helpful (Score:5, Funny)
If there's anything that starving, homeless people need in a disaster, it's someone to listen in on their phone calls...which they can't make because they have no way to charge phones and no working cell towers to connect to.
The FBI would be better off buying banks of phones with a built-in recording device connected to a wireless tower. At least that way they could help people while conducting their surveillance.
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If there's anything that starving, homeless people need in a disaster, it's someone to listen in on their phone calls...which they can't make because they have no way to charge phones and no working cell towers to connect to.
Katrina was August 2005. This purchase request was made in July 2006. I'm pretty sure people found a way to charge their phones in 11 months.
Since they didn't include a time travel device in their request, I'm pretty sure that the FBI used their experience at Katrina to justify purchases for the *next* large scale Katrina-like disaster.... which will suffer from similar problems, including lack of coordinated response from the government since there are too many levels of government involved in disaster relief.
Tracking (Score:3)
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Except the cellular network can already do that. If anything stingray devices probably make that less accurate and less effective.
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Although if you can deploy directly to a collapsed building and "see" locations at a local command center, instead of relying on relaying the data (from multiple vendors cell infrastructure?) possibly through a non-existent internet network, it still might make sense for SaR work.
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Yeah, they do. They feel they are protecting us and doing their patriotic duty to their nation. Go talk to someone who has been indoctrinated in the military or lives inside the beltway and works inside the government, or even just talk to a regular cop.
I have military in laws in my family, one of whom did some kind of SIGINT work for the NSA during the cold war. He's a "God and Country" sort of person; he holds very paternalistic views of the role of government in society. Not only about protecting us agai
Free Data? (Score:3, Funny)
I'm curious. Do you get free data usage if your phone is connected to a Stingray? I guess it wouldn't be so bad then.
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Nice try.
Bush tried to send the National Guard. The governor of Louisiana (a democrat) said no. Only after the corpses started piling up did she consent.
Seriously. Think about what would have happened if Bush sent the military into a state, against the will of a woman democrat governor, into a city with a majority black population.
Not only a woman Democrat Governor. But a black Democrat mayor. Remember "Chocolate City" Ray Nagin. Who by the way is in PRISON right now.
http://www.nola.com/crime/inde... [nola.com]
Re: Rampant Crime (Score:1)
In reality, the governor of Louisiana, Kathleen Blanco, declined to nationalize the Louisiana National Guard so that they would retain policing powers that would have been lost under Federalization due to the Posse Comitatus Act.
The same action was taken by the Governor of Mississippi.
None of this would have prevented effective deployment of federal resources. But don't let being factual get in your way. Tell the story you want to tell without worrying about the truth.
Much like now Governor of Louisiana
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You can't really reasonably blame that on Bush. The Scientific American had an article about New Orleans and subsidence that had basically left much of the city below sea level.
Now one *could* blame the Army Corps of Engineers for not doing a better job supporting the levees...but that's not the only place in the country that has decaying infrastructure. They've only got so much time and money. And local businesses (almost) always object to their construction projects.
For that matter, this is predicted t
Katrina should be a learning experience (Score:5, Insightful)
The list of things that local, state, and federal governments did horribly wrong in Katrina's aftermath is virtually endless. There should be plenty of opportunities to learn from it but it looks like they just keep making the same mistakes over and over.
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Whether the things they did were wrong or not often depends on what you assume their goals to be. I believe that much of the land has moved from those who are impoverished to those who are wealthy. One can guess whether actions with this result were a mistake.
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Except they didn't buy the Stingrays until a year later. Thank you for playing.
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Implanting tracking/monitoring devices in all infants would also make managing large populations and solving crimes more expedient. Since, as you state, the means can be justified by the ends, we should start doing this immediately. Alternatively, you can be called a goose-stepping tool. Tool.
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IIUC, cell phone communication was down during and after the emergency. So monitoring cell towers at such a time would be purely wasted effort.
Priorities (Score:1)
It seems to me with all the problems and challenges this country faces, top men put war on terrorism which includes need for extensive surveillance the top priority over other issues. Even if govt were better organized in disaster relief, they still would not able help everyone (that's why it is a disaster) but would not be constantly ridiculed for poor performance. However there were some officials saw impending disaster so they forward based a lot of resources closer to Louisiana knowing the state will be
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FEMA is mostly a fund provider and insurance for disasters.
And they're terrible at it. [thefiscaltimes.com]
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Some hams who were present to aid communication with families outside the area reported that their antennas were destroyed without reasonable explanation. So one may guess that aiding communication was not their priority. Also, IIRC, some doctors were shot at by law enforcement while attempting to provide medical assistance, so that probably wasn't their priority either.
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Isn't this supposed to be the FBI's job? (Score:3)
Isn't the FBI supposed to be trying to track down the person responsible for causing Katrina?
Oh, wait. Nevermind.
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Isn't the FBI supposed to be trying to track down the person responsible for causing Katrina?
Iran has repeatedly blamed the US for causing various natural disasters that have befallen that country. Apparently the FBI knows something we don't...
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Local Story about one of these (Score:1)
I am anonymous coward now right? OK, so the story isn't juicy without details sorry. But the take away is that a local tech person working for... a business in Louisiana... was dealing with some weird cell phone problems in an apartment. Details this, details that... and some guys in black stepped into the picture and said "please disregard the problem in room XYZ. We're here on business" indicated there was a bad guy in the area and indicated the tech person should hold off for a day till they could put th
Unlimited! (Score:1)
if the fbi wants to spy on everyones cellphones.
why not just start a cellphone company and offer unlimited free calls and data?
EVERYONE would sign up.
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You sure they haven't? ;) H20 wireless... Tracphone...
So what? (Score:2)
The Stingray needs an active tower to allow it to be a 'man in themiddle', so they could only monitor completed calls.
Do you think there might have been phone calls like "hey steve, we're heading over to the rich side of town to go 'shopping'" or "we're heading over to the hospital to steal OxyContin"...
After Katrina hit, New Orleans was essentially a lawless region for a handful of days - shouldn't federal law enforcement ramp up their efforts to enforce the law?