79% of Airbnb Listings In Barcelona Are Illegal 104
dkatana writes: Barcelona has more than 16,000 Airbnb listings and, according to reports on Cities of the Future, 79% could be illegal. "In April, Airbnb's European General Manager Jeroen Merchiers confirmed, during the Student Tourism Congress in Barcelona, that the platform has more than 85,000 listings in Spain alone." But most Airbnb hosts do not apply for a permit, fail to pay insurance and tourist tax, and ignore Catalonian law that forbids short-term rentals of rooms in private homes. "Residents," says the article, "had been complaining about the rising number of tourist apartments and the conduct of the mostly student-age renters. The majority from Italy, Germany and the UK were partying all night, some running around naked, and generally trashing their neighborhoods."
Running around naked (Score:1, Funny)
...get used to it, that's fully normal here in germany, italy and UK.
Re:Running around naked (Score:5, Funny)
People can't just go running around naked, partying and trashing the neighborhood without paying the appropriate government fees.
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Yes, they should just accept their neighborhoods being trashed by naked, drunken idiots. Where do they think they live, some prudish town in the U.S.?
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Yes, they should just accept their neighborhoods being trashed by naked, drunken idiots.
Neighborhoods trashed, no. Naked, drunken idiots? I don't see the problem. The only unusual part there will be the nudity, and what's wrong with that? What do you have against the human body?
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At least in the US, public nudity should be considered a violation of the Geneva Convention, the Smoot-Hawley Act, general concepts of decency and a Crime Against Nature.
There is a reason that cultures uniformly (pun intended, I suppose) develop social norms that include clothing.
"Are" or "could be"? (Score:2, Insightful)
Words have meanings — some times, they even have consequences. The title says:
The write-up says:
The former is a statement of fact and a serious allegation. The latter is just as non-committal and devoid of information as the (in)famous promise of Geico's advertising.
Which is it?
Phew... Ma
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Re: (Score:1, Interesting)
Not having insurance means this: the hotel industry lobbies the government to make competition illegal, that is all it is.
Re: "Are" or "could be"? (Score:2, Insightful)
Bullshit. All business are required to be insured to avoid people getting screwed by malpractice.
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re-read your post, i think you might see the issue with what you wrote.
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He's talking about liability insurance you dolt. Your required to buy liability insurance to prevent others from being screwed by your negligence. An acceptable alternative to requiring liability insurance is requiring bonding which would be akin to the savings method you mentioned the only difference being is that the savings is held by a thirdparty to make sure it doesn't disappear.
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people should have their own insurance. then we wouldn't need any of this oppressive shit.
If they were set up like a legitimate small business then they would have insurance.
If someone gets killed by the negligence of a hotel, at least their family will receive financial compensation. Good luck suing some clown who rents out his flat to students for a few extra tax free euros a year.
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You don't need to buy insurance to be insured, it is called savings.
These 'businesses' don't show proof they have savings to cover an incident.
I agree with the others that your understanding of how insurance works is incomplete.
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You don't need to buy insurance to be insured, it is called savings.
Utter nonsense. Apart from a few multi-multi-millionaires, most people could not cover the damages involved in a wrongful death suit. Here in the UK, for example, employers' liability insurance is generally in the order of GBP10 million.
I seriously doubt that most people renting out rooms to students have 10 million in the bank.
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First: it is false to assume people don't have insurance just because they did not pay for a government license.
Second it is false to assume that a flat owner is unaware of the risks.
Third not buying insurance does not in any way imply inability to pay for damages should that be necessary.
It is you, who lives in a black and white world, where absence of a government seal means some kind of a problem and presence of a government seal means some type of a guarantee of quality or whatever.
Individuals must be
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Individuals must be free to make individual decisions and live with any consequences.
The reason you have business liability insurance is so that if (for instance) you cripple a child who then requires expensive medical supervision for the rest of their lives, your insurance company can pay them.
This means that you don't have to bankrupt yourself and/or live the rest of your life paying most of what you earn to the child's family and, more to the point the family will actually get paid their damages, and not have to depend on getting blood out of an unemployed stone.
Re:"Are" or "could be"? (Score:5, Insightful)
According to the summary, the customers are "partying all night, some running around naked, and generally trashing their neighborhoods". The hotel industry is perfectly within their rights to demand everyone plays by the same rules. If you can figure out a better way to run a hotel, good for you; but if you simply figure out a new way to externalize the costs, you should be forced to eat them - and for Joe Average, that means licensing and insurance.
As a side note, we have far too many people who want to be treated as business geniuses despite doing nothing but turning costs to externalities, and often even making them costlier in the process. It's that failure of human spirit that makes it impossible to have completely free markets.
Re:"Are" or "could be"? (Score:4, Informative)
So your business is causing a disturbance that extends to my property. The noise and drunks are basically waste products of your business; you don't get to dump them on my lawn.
Sure they do, and when they do, the police comes to take the criminal scum away. But that doesn't work when you have a whole new customer lined up for the next night, and another one for the next, and another one...
Hotels are subject to zoning laws which generally put them into commercial districts, precisely for this reason.
No, I'm simply defending my property rights. The hotels are defending their right to equality before law. The only one full of shit here is you, even by your own standards.
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You kind of ignored the planning part, factually the most important part. People pay extra for homes in better, quieter more stable neighbours. Let's say MI the grandparent is a dick douche bag and wants to buy up a good neighbourhood cheap. No planning laws, so MI the dick douche bag buys one house a full price and starts renting it out for biker parties, every single night. Neighbours can do nothing because no planning laws and a driven out, new buyers don't want to buy in at full price because of storie
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I'm losing my mods to reply to this, just so ya know I'm serious....
I run a room through AirBNB, in my home, we are booked most of the year and make 1/2 of my wife's income (it is her job to run it along with some other income streams she does). When people ask us:
1) Aren't you afraid of having strangers in your house? No they are vetted by AirBNB, we can see them and talk to them any time before their arrival or while they are here. This is our home, so we take care of it.
2) are there ever any problems
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Except this is largely bullshit (on the part of TFA, not having a go at you). There is currently a big backlash against tourists in Barcelona, it's almost something of a moral panic.
There was one incident last year of two italian guys running into a supermarket naked. One incident.
I've not heard of any neighbourhoods being 'trashed' either.
Since then, tourists have become
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Nit de Sant Joan on Tuesday until dawn: tens of thousands of people (mainly local) dancing, drinking, pissing in the street, vomiting; I didn't see a single policeman all night.
come on, it's sant joan ...
I love this city, but the hostility from a lot of people to everyone who isn't catalan gets me down.
this is, of course, bullshit.
and how does this bs match with you admitting ' like 7.5 million tourists a year in Barcelona. The vast, vast majority are well behaved'? care to support it with some facts, apart from the obvious one that bulls do bully?
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Exactly. So there are thousands of drunk people setting off fireworks in the street all night, and no visible police presence. No wonder a small minority of tourists think you can do whatever you want in Barcelona with no repercussions.
I'm not saying the police should stop Sant Joan, I'm saying that there should be a police presence in places where there are a lot of drunk people, and there isn't. Escudellers is where the worst tourists seem to end up, and it's full of beer-cervez
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Exactly. So there are thousands of drunk people setting off fireworks in the street all night, and no visible police presence. No wonder a small minority of tourists think you can do whatever you want in Barcelona with no repercussions.
I'm not saying the police should stop Sant Joan, I'm saying that there should be a police presence in places where there are a lot of drunk people, and there isn't.
you're mixing things here. drunks get drunk, fireworks are set off mainly by kids with their families and these things happen in separate environments. none of this is a crime so police presence is not needed at all. accidents do happen, though, and even occasional vandalism. i've seen many waste containers light up on sant joan. firefighters tend to show up promptly. no big deal.
if you love this city it's a pity you didn't get a glimpse into the magic and the exceptionality that imbues this very special ni
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just wanted to add one thing to the police story, in case you wondered: i was born in barcelona but have german name and surnames, and absolutely look like a guiri. :)
Re:"Are" or "could be"? (Score:5, Informative)
Not sure how the tourist tax works in Catalonia, but here is how it works in Switzerland.
A typical example is a ski resort, where in the non touristic seasons (winter, autumn) there are 500 permanent residents, while in the high seasons (winter, a bit less in summer), there are up to 5'000 residents. The 500 permanent residents have to provide, through their local taxes, the infrastructure (roads, energy, garbage collection, etc.) required for the 5'000 people in the high seasons, which is not fair. So the tourist tax is meant to correct this, a tax is due for each day a tourist spends at the resort, to finance the overall infrastructure. The hotels and rented flat owners have to collect this tax from their customers. Some include this tax in their overall prices, some others, to look cheaper, do not and charge the tax extra.
Property taxes are highly regressive (Score:2)
We fund services with p
There rich buy very little of that (Score:2)
AirBnB gives you $50k (Score:2)
AirBnB will reimburse up to $50k in loss or damage from a guest. Read that in a recent article about AirBnB...
But you mitigate that as a host by not taking every single offer that comes along.
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You're hosting people, you should have all the required protection that lets you cover the cost if something bad happens.
You're not necessarily hosting people.
Just like putting a for sale sign on a car doesn't mean that you have sold your car.
Listing a property for a particular set of dates, or listing the same property multiple times, doesn't necessarily mean that any of your listings were accepted.
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In the United States local jurisdictions view tourist taxes as free money. Tourists cannot vote.
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Like disrupting a residential neighborhood by turning into into a bacchanal so you can make a quick buck?
If the community says "it is wrong to rent out homes to a bunch of drunken shitheads in this neighborhood," then it *is* illegal because it is wrong.
Good thing you agree that the government should crack down on this sort of thing.
Re: "Are" or "could be"? (Score:3)
But running around naked is illegal on its own right. It has nothing to do with unauthorized rental of homes or airbnb.
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But running around naked is illegal on its own right. It has nothing to do with unauthorized rental of homes or airbnb.
Public nudity isn't illegal in Spain. Please stop assuming everywhere in the world has the same laws and prudishness as your homeland.
However people having a rowdy party every 2-3 nights right next to your sleepy casa is a serious problem. This is one of the big reasons that hotels are typically not put in residential areas.
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Well it is residents of Barcelona that are complaining about public nudity. May be, they should consider making it illegal then.
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A Slashdot summary doesn't accurately reflect the FA. News at 11.
Re: "Are" or "could be"? (Score:2)
Since most of these places aren't registered as tourist rentals, it's hard to come to a concrete number. The article also explains that AirBnB doesn't actually give exact addresses until the transaction is completed, making outside tracking difficult.
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The difficulty of obtaining accurate figures is no excuse for making shit up. Though, of course, as the Climate Science's lead is showing, the practice is increasingly acceptable...
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Malum Prohibitum (Score:3)
Screw you, Statists, get back to enforcing the malum in se — you know, the kind of thing, that is illegal because it is wrong.
For a modern state to function, you need both kinds of law. Failure to pay taxes is malum prohibitum (bad because it is prohibited), but without paying taxes you don't have cops.
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Which is it?
Phew... Malum prohibitum crimes: it is only wrong because it is illegal. Screw you, Statists, get back to enforcing the malum in se — you know, the kind of thing, that is illegal because it is wrong.
there's a reason. barcelona is a dense city and living places are scarce. for several years there's been a trend of people buying out flats for short time rentals during touristic seasons, specially in the most sought after quarters. that's good business for some but makes home scarcity worse for locals.
i'm assuming those airbnb listings aren't actually from people sharing a room, but from such 'entrepreneurs'. (this is my speculation, no first hand information here)
and the running naked thing can be a rea
Only in Barcelona? (Score:3, Insightful)
Most (if not *all*) major cities in Western countries have laws regulating room/house rental. By going through Airbnb or similar services you just ignore those laws, allowing hosts not to pay any taxes, not to have any insurances, and so on. Where's the news in that? Why do they think so many people offer housing through it?
I'm not happy with the amount of bureaucracy that one has to go through just to rent out a room for a couple of weeks, but on the other hand unreported/untaxed income for the host or lack of insurance for the guest is just *wrong*. Like with Uber, countries should move towards a simplified and more effective jurisdiction (as owning an hotel and renting a room for a week are pretty much different things), and then they can force Airbnb to give out the names of the hosts and start enforcing such laws.
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Yes most western cities do have regulations about this and it's focused on two main issues. One, is that rents in urban areas is on the increase, places that are purchased and available for temporary rentals create over speculation and drive up demand, punishing residents with lower availability and higher prices for living accommodations. Two, as you indicated, they skirt local taxation laws which are draconian in nature but generate revenue just from a tourist being there. Most cities have a daily room
Pay back Caesar's things to Caesar (Score:2)
Let's go ask the church to preach paying taxes as a commandment
A congregation that follows the Bible already does. As Jesus put it: "By all means, then, pay back Caesar's things to Caesar, but God's things to God."--Luke 20:25.
The Treasury (Score:2)
But this was about Roman coins with Caesar's likeness on them. I don't see a picture of Obama on the dollar bill.
The ministry of Jesus of Nazareth (29-33 CE) took place during the Tiberius administration (14-37 CE). I imagine that coins in circulation when Tiberius took office would have had a portrait of a past Roman head of state, such as Augustus Caesar. I'm no expert on the history of Roman coinage, and thus I don't know whether Rome recalled old coins after a new emperor took office or whether they were still usable after 20 years. But given the use of the generic "Caesar" rather than "Augustus" or "Tiberius", we
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By going through Airbnb or similar services you just ignore those laws,
Nope. Depends on the host. My host in Paris and Rome most certainly did more paperwork that looked to comply with the laws you imply. But the Venice host looked to be a student that flats elsewhere when "illegally" renting out his regular place.
The one in Rome was an actual hotel, listed and registered as such, but doing AirBnB because it's a non-traditional hotel (more like a traditional BnB without breakfast), and AirBnB brings in non-traditional customers. Or the apartment complex in SG that uses Ai
What the fuck is Airbnb ?? (Score:2)
Bloody lazy editors.
Re:What the fuck is Airbnb ?? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's supposed to be intrinsic knowledge when speaking of companies that really don't produce anything and introduce a business model based upon others taking the risk while they reap a profit. Uber and Lyft are examples of these kinds of companies. They're viewed as perfect investment models and have insane valuations based on hype rather than substance. Welcome to the new economic reality.
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I don't understand how AirBNB make money -- I've just spent 3 days trying to pay them $2500 and their fucking webshite won't let me.
And the name is a lie -- they don't provide breakfast.
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Give me $2500 dollars and I will send you a nice breakfast.
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Ah, so basically Silicon Valley 2.0 but outside computers. Got it.
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Bloody lazy editors.
There's always a balance between stating the obvious (like always spelling out USA as United States of America, or writing "computer software and hardware company Microsoft") and producing meaningless articles about the release of version 0.2167 of someone's pet open source instant messenger app called "OMGWTFBBQLMAOYOLO".
I've heard of Airbnb just because it has one of the stupidest names I've ever come across, so it sticks like shit to a blanket.
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Illegal: the new bussines model (Score:1)
Ignore laws and make money by connecting "clients" and "providers", but pretending that this isn't a business. Also screwing the local people along the way, just like Uber...
"That is not a sharing-economy. It is running a business and it needs to be regulated, taxed and made accountable." Right!!! actually tax'em more, since this "companies" don't produce nothing but trouble.
AirBNB is hurting Barcelona, badly. (Score:4, Informative)
I am an spaniard and I used to visit Barcelona regularly, is less than two hours by train from where I live.
I can say without a doubt that AirBNB and the other “home-sharing” sites like Homeaway or Niumba are turning Barcelona into shit. Like a virus that eats its own host.
Barcelona used to be a culturally vibrant city, but every day it resembles more and more a theme park. The city is simply not designed to accommodate this huge influx of tourism. Until 3-4 years ago, the city could more or less control the amount of tourism it received by limiting the number of hotel beds and private accommodations (“hostales” or “pensiones”). That way, the effects of tourism were limited to the massification of tourist attractions, and the effect was limited to the city center. And the negative effects of this floating population (strain on infrastructures, etc) was offset by a tax on each bed.
If you were a resident, you could carry on with your life with only minor inconveniences, like increased traffic jams due to the high number of tourist buses.
AirBNB has changed all that. By enabling an unlimited number of unregulated beds, spread everywhere, the number of tourists has boomed, and the quality of such tourism has plummeted. Long gone are the Japanese and european middle-aged families looking for a pleasant stay; all hail the drunken pissing, screaming, vomiting english and german kids and manchildren. It’s now a real problem.
You have to remember that, unlike in America, everyone in Barcelona (even the very rich) live in flats. You have one key to your building, and one key to your flat. Now, if one of your neighbours decides to illegally rent one of these flats, that means that the keys to your building are being handed to random foreigners, and nothing can stop these ‘guests’ from pissing in your stairs, vomiting in your doorstep, and so on. And when you have to carry on with your 8-5 day job and have to support a family, is very difficult to do so when you have teenage dickheads screaming and drinking all night, seven nights a week, right below/over you, and you wake up to the smell of vomit and urine every day. You can’t sleep, you underperform in your work and your family suffers.
Regulations exist for a reason. Tourism in a living city cannot self-regulate; this a Tragedy of the commons [wikipedia.org]. AirBNB its hurting residents, its hurting legitimate and well-behaving tourists, and its replacing high-income tourism with the lowest of the low.
For some reason , american companies operating outside America like to ignore local laws. In Barcelona, AirBNB has made a business plan of ignoring Barcelona city regulations. AirBNB is not breaking any law directly, but by refusing to hand out renters and hosts data to the city, its enabling this widespread problem.
Residents are pissed for a reason. Recently they elected a new mayor that had vowed during the campaign to “crack down on the burden of tourism” That was three weeks ago so we'll see if that promise materializes or not.
Some real, concrete changes that I have noticed as a long-time visitor of Barcelona:
-Public parks like Parc Guell are no longer public, you have to pay to enter.
-Huge queues for everything.
-Overcrowding in all the main pedestrian streets, its not safe to walk anymore. Overcrowding in the beach also.
-Public space taken by shitty street performers and shitty “manteros” selling chinese shit to tourists.
-Pickpockets preying on drunk tourists everywhere.
-Street violence, drunk english kids looking to pick a fight, clashes between police and drunkards
-Prostitution in broad daylight in the city centre (!) As a mediterranean port city, prostitution has always been present, but not to these levels.
-Drug traffickers posing as illegal alcohol street vendors ("lateros")
-Old shops and commerces being replaced by shitty international chains
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All problems in my city are of course the fault of illegal foreigners too. Racism never dies
Actually, the problem is more that some cultures (and some individuals in other cultures) seem to view being a tourist in another country as a time to, well, drop all of your normal rules of behavior. Getting drunk and running amok is something you do when not home--at home you might exercise some moderation, or there'd be people who'd call you out on it whose authority you'd feel obligated to respect. (It's important to note that drunken behavior is only partially the actual effects of alcohol--a surprisi
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I hate to say it, given that I'm British, but unfortunately the problem of a subset of Brits getting completely wasted and engaging in shitty, boorish behaviour isn't something restricted to holiday times. For some reason the UK just has a far more serious problem with drinking than other cultures and it ha
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I pretended to be Canadian
If you don't think Canadians can get obnoxiously drunk too, you'rve obviously never been to Canada. ,p>
I personally get fed up with snobbish British people criticising other British people on holiday, as though no one else ever got drunk.
I've seen pissed Belgian Danish, German, Spanish and Turkish, and other people and they're all the same, they just get pissed in Foreign rather than English.
What's the problem? (Score:2)