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Government Privacy United States

France, Up In Arms Over NSA Spying, Passes New Surveillance Law 80

Posted by samzenpus from the was-that-wrong? dept.
An anonymous reader writes: French President Francois Hollande held an emergency meeting with top security officials to respond to WikiLeaks documents that say the NSA eavesdropped on French presidents. The documents published in Liberation and investigative website Mediapart include material that appeared to capture current president, François Hollande; the prime minister in 2012, Jean-Marc Ayrault; and former presidents Nicolas Sarkozy and Jacques Chirac, talking candidly about Greece's economy and relations with Germany. The Intercept reports: "Yet also today, the lower house of France's legislature, the National Assembly, passed a sweeping surveillance law. The law provides a new framework for the country's intelligence agencies to expand their surveillance activities. Opponents of the law were quick to mock the government for vigorously protesting being surveilled by one of the country's closest allies while passing a law that gives its own intelligence services vast powers with what its opponents regard as little oversight. But for those who support the new law, the new revelations of NSA spying showed the urgent need to update the tools available to France's spies."
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France, Up In Arms Over NSA Spying, Passes New Surveillance Law More

France, Up In Arms Over NSA Spying, Passes New Surveillance Law

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  • The NSA are getting mighty pissed by now.

    • Everybody should be pissed at NSA by now ... (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      ... with the exception of President Barrack Hussein Obama and ... Cold Fjord

      • Re:Everybody should be pissed at NSA by now ... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by davester666 ( 731373 ) on Thursday June 25, 2015 @03:05AM (#49983611) Journal

        These are always the best laws...enacted right after an 'emergency', with no debate. Helpfully, the law was pre-drafted and just in a filing cabinet waiting for the right circumstance to pass it.

        Of course, I'm not exactly sure how this helps with the 'emergency', that the NSA was spying on the French gov't. I guess the emergency for the gov't was that they finally realized that the NSA knew more about everyone in France than the French Secret Service does. The new legislation should even it up, by greatly increasing their ability to spy on their own largely law-abiding citizens.

        Problem solved! This calls for a round of embezzling.

        • Re:Everybody should be pissed at NSA by now ... (Score:5, Insightful)

          by rvw ( 755107 ) on Thursday June 25, 2015 @05:42AM (#49983953)

          These are always the best laws...enacted right after an 'emergency', with no debate. Helpfully, the law was pre-drafted and just in a filing cabinet waiting for the right circumstance to pass it.

          Of course, I'm not exactly sure how this helps with the 'emergency', that the NSA was spying on the French gov't. I guess the emergency for the gov't was that they finally realized that the NSA knew more about everyone in France than the French Secret Service does. The new legislation should even it up, by greatly increasing their ability to spy on their own largely law-abiding citizens.

          The French are mad, but only for the show. They simply cooperate with the NSA, and this is the opportunity they've been waiting for. Now they can pass a new law that will help them cooperate even better with the NSA. They thank Wikileaks for helping them.

          • They thank Wikileaks for helping them.

            The law was going to pass anyway, if you cared to read /. you would know. They credit it to the terrorists from the comic guy case. What Wikileaks did was to provide information they had to complain about and show us how hypocrites they are. Either the anti-Wikileaks propaganda really got into you or you are working for them.

        • After an incident that creates an emergency is not the time to be passing any laws. It should be the time for the systems that were put in place beforehand to start doing what they were designed to do.

          If such systems are in place, passing emergency laws in this time period would effectively kneecap them and perhaps sever their carotid, then rip those systems out and replace them with something less-functional and more reactionary (and invasive). Probably to cover up the fact that the procedures in plac

    • Surely your sig should read "Procrastinate Now!"

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Whiteox ( 919863 )

        Some are too apathetic to procrastinate. Slashdot is my way of avoiding apathy and is perfect to practise the zen of avoidance.

  • What's the use in crying terrorism to pass these kinds of laws when you can just blame it on the US? Seems like an easy way to gather all the data you want if you ask me. Makes perfect sense

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Feral Nerd ( 3929873 )

      What's the use in crying terrorism to pass these kinds of laws when you can just blame it on the US? Seems like an easy way to gather all the data you want if you ask me. Makes perfect sense

      Or you could ask yourself whether it is a positive development for the USA that people in other countries are now using the USA as an excuse to pass laws like this where in the past they used to use the likes of Al Qaeda as an excuse. Perhaps that's something the people of the USA might want to change before it fucks up their relationship with their oldest and closest ally who helped you wriggle out from under the iron heel of British tyranny and whose soldiers shed their blood to secure the independence of

      • Those who shed their blood for freedom (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Taco Cowboy ( 5327 ) on Thursday June 25, 2015 @03:44AM (#49983689) Journal

        I have nothing but utmost respect for those who shed their blood for freedom, unfortunately human history is such that those who died for the cause almost always died in vain

        Not because they didn't win the battle - they did

        But because whatever victory they have achieved would, one way or another, be completely eroded by politicians

        No matter which culture - no matter which era

        No matter if the battle took place 2000 years ago or 2000 years in the future, politicians will always be the ultimate victor

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by Anonymous Coward
          Their win was not in vain but they only won a battle: one of many. Every day is a new battle, sometimes we win sometimes we do not. We have to fight this unequal battle almost all the time. It is not enough to just sit on our asses and talk about how we value some abstract ideas - this if that is the only activity is just mental masturbation. It has to be accompanied by interest, informing ourselves, discussing of these subjects and currently occurring issues with our peers, acting if necessary - that inclu

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Noryungi ( 70322 )

      What's the use in crying terrorism to pass these kinds of laws when you can just blame it on the US? Seems like an easy way to gather all the data you want if you ask me. Makes perfect sense

      More like penis envy: the NSA does it, so we have to do it. Only worse.

      And all in the name of terrorism, of course. And to lock up dangerous nazi pedophiles. Or something.

      Brings to mind many skits by Bill Hicks. He would have had a field day with the kind of moronic behaviour we see so much of these days.

  • You don't get it (Score:5, Insightful)

    by aepervius ( 535155 ) on Thursday June 25, 2015 @02:54AM (#49983581)
    "Opponents of the law were quick to mock the government for vigorously protesting being surveilled by one of the country's closest allies while passing a law that gives its own intelligence services vast powers with what its opponents regard as little oversight." that is because in the spy game, everybody spy as much the other as they can. there is with almost certainty french spy right at this moment trying to intercept Obama's conversation. But getting caught, be it red handed or by a leak is a no-no - the biggest sin - as the government HAVE to pretend they are angry , etc... It is all theater for the plebe, while the spy and counter intelligence on both side sigh and go on as usual , maybe tightening their protocol. The bottom line is : this will change nothing in US - France relationship, it will just force US politician to be a bit contrite for a few days (maybe - if even), French politician to be angry for a few week, and then wait that the media move onto the next story and forget it all. And the shadow game then continue.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Whiteox ( 919863 )

      You've got to take one more step. These new laws will allow French intelligence agencies to spy on the NSA as well. As you point out though, the NSA are aware of this and the whole 'cold war' thing gets reborn.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        The spy game was about war and prevention. Today the US focuses on foreign governments to pass key information along to US businesses. Why? The US is run by oligarchs are the extremely wealthy, they put their own people in position and reap the rewards as they gain power to change policy.

    • The spies already got caught red-handed and by leaks, but that only caused a slight ripple of mild outrage. The powers that be don't care much about agencies of other nations spying on our citizens, and in case of allies they'll actively help them from time to time. The real outrage erupts when it is discovered that these politicians themselves are being spied upon. France this time, but it was the same in Germany and the Netherlands.
  • Few years ago the Greek Intelligence Agency discovered an apartment full of "mirrored" (i.e., cloned, used to intercept the original) mobile phones belonging to top Greek state's executives (including one of the prime minister's) - everyone understood who was spying on us Greeks (that apartment was next to the USA embasy in Athens... plus, we managed to find the CIA guy who organized the operation, now retired - no need to write his name, but it is known, as is his current address). Of course no Greek liked

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Nice pasta.
      Are you going to post this in every story about the CIA?

      • Nice pasta. Are you going to post this in every story about the CIA?

        The only other story i have posted about "spy things" was just yesterday [slashdot.org], but *this* is different from the other (and i have few more also... i keep them for the future, so i can keep myself "original"!).

        note: both the stories that i already posted (and those that i keep for the future!) are true - "spy things" happen very often between friends and allies, like Greece and USA are.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      There is a major difference between targeted spying and shameless mass indiscriminate surveillance of humanity that the five eyes.. US, UK, Australia, New Zealand and even Canada (I'm Canadian)... have been up to the last few years. Orwell's villains could only dream of the the spying capabilities extremists in our own governments are unethically engaged in.

      • There is a major difference between targeted spying and shameless mass indiscriminate surveillance of humanity that the five eyes.. US, UK, Australia, New Zealand and even Canada (I'm Canadian)... have been up to the last few years. Orwell's villains could only dream of the the spying capabilities extremists in our own governments are unethically engaged in.

        Let me inform you about "humanity" (in which i belong as a Greek) mister Canadian: we ("humanity") spy on you ("the five eyes.. US, UK, Australia, New Zealand and even Canada").

        I realy respect the fact that you feel bad about your actions (by the way: stereotypes... a Canadian apologizing!), but this is the reason that i trust you (all five) more spying on me, the Greek, than all the others (even my European partners) who do the same...

  • Freedom (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jargonburn ( 1950578 ) on Thursday June 25, 2015 @03:11AM (#49983619)
    You're doing it wrong.
  • It's nice to know that *some* good actually came from all this NSA spying. We didn't really catch any terrorists, but we were able to expose hypocrisy in the French government. Mission Accomplished.

    • Re:Totally worth it. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Sique ( 173459 ) on Thursday June 25, 2015 @04:05AM (#49983733) Homepage
      And we managed to expose hypocrisy in all other governments too, as for instance the U.S. was assuring everyone: "We don't spy on friends".

      And in general, I think: Let the governments spy on each other. That's fine with me. Let them play their games with themselves. Hey, even government agencies of the same government spy on each other.

      What I am not ok with is if spy agencies that are not allowed to spy on their own population do it via agencies in other countries. The german BND is not allowed wholesale data collections of german people, thus they just ask the NSA to filter it for them. On the other hand, the NSA sends the BND a list of keywords, and the BND uses its investigative power to hand the matching data over to the NSA.

      In some way, all legislation around spying powers gets made obsolete if you just have that befriended agency in that befriended country which just happily will provide you with all the data you are not allowed to collect -- they are not subject to your legislation, they don't have to report to your appointed watchdog, and they will not obey the will of your people. All the bad things that are illegal for your people are just outsourced to others, to the mercenaries somewhere else, to the foreign torturers and to the shady deals everyone can deny if they grow sour.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by phayes ( 202222 )

        And we managed to expose hypocrisy in all other governments too, as for instance the U.S. was assuring everyone: "We don't spy on friends".

        "Assured"?!? No, the gullible & the innocent assumed that the US wouldn't collect info (spy) where it could. Anyone with any knowledge of history knows that todays friends can be tomorrows enemies so it is prudent to avoid getting blindsided.

        Those crying "How could they" clearly have little knowledge of how the real world works. They "discover" that the US has plans to invade Canada and breathlessly scream how evil the US is for planning ahead for every contingency.

  • France is so outraged they are going to introduce more laws to allow greater snooping powers on their own citizens? I'm surprised they didn't also introduce pay rises for themselves, ya know, coz of the outrage.

  • It's France (Score:3)

    by NicBenjamin ( 2124018 ) on Thursday June 25, 2015 @04:29AM (#49983767)

    You remember when they were extremely pissed off about PRISM, one of the NSA's phone-data collection programs? And how within a day it came out they were worse [cnn.com]?

    This was at least better then that time when their response to the Rwandan genocide was to prevent anything useful; from happening at the UN until everyone was already dead, and then sending in their troops to protect the murderers from rebels in a "safe zone" [wikipedia.org]. See the rebels were mostly English-speakers who'd grown up in Uganda, whereas the government were French-speakers who'd gone to the same schools as the French Elite, so clearly the best interests of the French state were served by supporting the government.

    I am really not surprised the French State is shocked and saddened by other state's surveillance on it, and thinks the only possible solution is to authorize it's surveillance of everyone else. It's kinda an MO. The only thing I can say in their defense is the American government would probably be just as bad. Altho we'd do it with less style.

  • So when are the French (Score:3)

    by wiredog ( 43288 ) on Thursday June 25, 2015 @05:21AM (#49983881) Journal

    going to pass a law making it illegal for the French Intelligence services to blow up ships in New Zealand ports? Or is murder more acceptable to the French than spying?

  • I have a hard time believing that the heads of state aren't already very aware of the surveillance other countries perform on them. If Merkel and Hollande really thought they weren't being spied on by their allies they're clueless gits.

    So once it becomes public what do they do, express feigned outrage and use it to pass some new law that doesn't address the issue but does give them some nifty new powers.

  • Think every government does this to each other, it just seems the US is better at it. Nations don't have friends they have interests and spying on friends is the norm I think. Didn't an Israeli network go down in the US a while ago? Add that tot he fact that the US and France run counter on a lot of issues and this is not surprising. DeGaulle legacy continues since he was pissed at his treatment during WW2 by the allies

    • "Think every government does this to each other, it just seems the US is better at it. Nations don't have friends they have interests and spying on friends is the norm I think".

      Fine. Just don't act surprised next time your government asks ours for help and we tell you "No, because we know you are only pursuing your own interests and everything you say otherwise is a lie".

      • Much like how the French government is serving its own interests with this new law.

        If you're going to use that line, you're not going to have many people left to do anything with.

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