OpenBazaar, Born of an Effort To Build the Next Silk Road, Raises $1 Million 107
Patrick O'Neill writes: After the fall of Silk Road, Amir Taaki built DarkMarket in an effort to offer a decentralized and "untouchable" market alternative. That's grown into OpenBazaar, a "censorship-resistant" protocol that just raised $1 million from venture capital firms Union Square Ventures and Andreessen Horowitz, as well as angel investor William Mougayar through the company OB1, which will now do core development on the software.
Untouchable? (Score:4, Interesting)
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Because the players here fight dirty.
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Re:Untouchable? (Score:5, Funny)
Do you think you're special enough that you can use a monospace font? Get back in the short bus!
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As you fail to capitalize the first letter of your first sentence... Black pots shouldn't throw glass stones at houses.
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> Because the players here fight dirty.
You mean the government with their unlimited access to funds and ability to declare a War on X with anything they disagree with? :-)
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Only because someone cries "There ought to be a law" and it is so. And as long as politicians keep getting elected to make all the "there ought to be a law" laws, then we're stuck with that system.
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There ought to be a law against that.
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That, and secret laws, ignoring your Constitutional rights, trumping up a bunch of other charges to bully you into doing what they say ... oh, and the massive bit of institutional perjury which is embodies in parallel construction to deny you a proper legal defense.
They'll come down pretty hard on anybody they think is enabling this kind of stuff, and they'll twist and reinterpret the law any way they need to.
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Evolution at work. The smartest ones will survive. Those that were pretty successful so far until caught did not impress as being very smart and the process is obviously in an early stage. And those on the government side, fighting the utterly useless and destructive "War on everything we do not like" will not have anybody really smart among them, because smart people do not seek government employ.
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It actually only has to win in instances where the other side notices that something is up. Remember that the stuff they sold was sent through regular mail for a long, long time?
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> because smart people do not seek government employ.
That's a simplification. Smart people are discouraged from government employ because the pay scale is low. The Federal general salary (GS) scale tops out at 100-130K per year. However, other factors, like job security, not having to work very hard, or power over other people's lives can compensate for the low pay. A really interesting job can also attract smart people. Civilian U.S. astronauts are on the GS scale, and thus they top out at the same
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Except for some rare deviations (and astronaut is not really a common job and has some rather serious requirements with regard to the candidates), government jobs are far too dull for smart people. That the pay sucks is just a small part of the problem. The more serious issues is that you are routinely not allowed to think and that getting anything done is a glacial and painful process. Large companies are bad enough, but the Government invented tedium.
Re:Untouchable? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Untouchable? (Score:4, Funny)
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The government doesn't need to be very smart. those making OpenBazaar however need to be perfect at absolutely every single thing though do from social interactions online and offline, how and where they spend their money and how well they manage IT. The government only has to win one battle and the war is over and that one battle can be something as silly as a careless post on social media or someone that gets greedy and is happy to sell out to the government in exchange for turning everyone else in. OpenB
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When people built centralised systems for making payments while avoiding the regular government controlled banking system the government either crushed them or forced them to become part of the system.
It was clearly within the US governments resources to crush bitcoin by gathering together enough hardware to do a 51% attack and thereby prevent unapproved transactions from entering the blockchain but they did not do so.
I predict (Score:1)
that this will go well for all concerned.
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e-bay & Alibaba killer (Score:2, Interesting)
It has the potential to really hurt e-bay & Alibaba. Think about all those traders, that can sell their wares for free. It's a no-brainer to list your sites on OpenBazzar at the same time. Eventually the user-base will get to a point where e-bay is too expansive, and they will have to drop their prices.
Re:Straight to jail... (Score:4, Funny)
The stupid feds will never figure this one out! - Dread Pirate Roberts
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Fed1: We keep killing the Dread Pirate Roberts but he keeps coming back!
Fed2 (from Mississippi): It's Jesus!
Re:Straight to jail... (Score:4, Insightful)
Fed3: Job Security (high five)
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The stupid feds will never figure this one out! - Dread Pirate Roberts
Wesley is that you, Cumberbun, or the real DPR?
Source available (Score:3)
https://github.com/OpenBazaar/... [github.com]
Unpossible (Score:2)
This is why governments have such hard-ons for alternative currencies. At some point, in order to profit from your schemes, you have to turn your activity into currency, and that's how they can nail you. They just follow the money. It never ceases to amaze me how people who comprehend that this works in politics don't think it will work everywhere else.
Re:Unpossible (Score:4, Insightful)
Except it will stop working when the people end-to-end never convert the cryptocurrencies into regular fiat currency.
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It will stop once they realize that all crypto currencies are in fact traceable via their block chain. It will be mitigated by washing services, but you'll find governments eventually regulating those out of business.
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a BTC tumbler is not a business, it is a piece of code that can be added to any btc related transaction platform, and the silk road I even had it.
no one was arrested to do blockchain evidence, the evidence was ordinary humint and some quasi-legal hacking exploiting TOR vulnerabilities.
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all crypto currencies are in fact traceable via their block chain.
Monero has built-in mixing.
https://getmonero.org/home [getmonero.org]
https://www.reddit.com/r/moner... [reddit.com]
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> It will stop once they realize that all crypto currencies are in fact traceable via their block chain.
No, they are not. There are such things as "paper wallets" (containing the private key to a bitcoin address). You can hand over such a wallet to another person, without creating a transaction on the block chain. There are also services built on top of the block chain - ChangeTip ( https://www.changetip.com/ [changetip.com] ) is an example. People can send tips to each other, and it is internal to ChangeTip's books
Re:Unpossible (Score:5, Informative)
I am not a dumbass. I speak for those that don't know certain things are even possible. Those that use SilkRoad /OpenBazzare probably already know about these things, or at least should. Your Grandma doesn't.
Yes, you can (and should) use a new wallet every transaction, by default.
Yes, you can wash your currency between transfers to new wallets, and probably should do that too.
You and I are both well versed in these things, but most people are not.
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But they will become versed in them, and new cryptocurrencies are under development all the time, and some of those will address these issues in ways that make it transparent for users. Even grandmas. Government trying to regulate them will be playing whackamole. It will be interesting.
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But they will become versed in them,
No, no they won't. People don't even do these things with the freely tradeable articles they have in their wallets now, and all that requires is some hand motions and a willing partner, insert jokes here.
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No, they won't. Most people don't have a clue what Fiat Currency actually means. They have no idea how the FED and world banking systems work. They barely know how anything works.
This is the problem within the IT and Engineering crowds, we simply assume people are like us, when they are clearly not anything like us. We learn about things, all the time. The other people, the "average" guy, doesn't care to learn about the same things.
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All it takes is an expert with enough jargon and some numbers (we identified the holder of this wallet to a precision of 1 in 300 million), even if not true, and convictions will be garn
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Which is why you use Wallets one time, and one time only. And then only after washed / tumbled currency is inserted into it. And for the super paranoid, you can wash / trade wallets so that a wallet is not associated with a single user.
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It does help with the bad smell though.
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The greatness of the bitchain is not complete anonymity from a rapacious, malicious governmen
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You don't think that having a main wallet containing all of your real money that you tied to a sketchy "financial institution" will reveal your identity when it's the *only* wallet to ever make a transaction with the wallet that you bought your drugs with?
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no it won't, at some stage the money gets spent, whether it is on a packet of chips or a book. Unless you only hoard the money and never spend it then eventually it is traceable. The simple fact is people have real physical presences and require real physical items to live, those interactions are tracable, amusingly crypto currencies actually make those interactions far far easier to trace than cash.
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It's fishier than that. From the link:
Some background on Booz Allen [wikipedia.org]:
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My that is interesting. My question is if everyone is anonymous and there are zero fees, then how do they expect to get their 1 million dollars back? Venture capitalists don't just give out money an expect nothing in return.
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Contributing funds to special projects doesn't mean expecting ROI in specific amount of money. Rather, the virtual infrastructures that were created by those projects that often attract more resources to enable the creation of even more virtual infrastructures
It's the snowballing effect that is the crux of those investment
I do hope... (Score:2, Insightful)
.... that all the stick-it-to-the-man trustafarians and right on student types who'll no doubt funded this will eventually wise up and realise the sort of desperately unpleasent people and groups that make a profit out of places like silk road. We're not talking knock off DVDs here or a bit of pot there, this is mass market drug dealing. Just because its online doesn't make it ok.
I wonder just how many of these idiots could send a donation to a columbian drugs gang?
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That and to gain visibility and tracability into black market networks. Cutbacks must be severe.
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Don't be so fucking naive. You think this stuff is manufactured and sold by some sweet little grannies just to make up their pensions?
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*sigh*
"and that the illegal market only exists because of legislation. Thus the solution is to fix the legislation"
Yeah, and while we're at it lets solve the murder crisis by making it legal. GTFU assuming you haven't burnt out so many braincells getting high already that its not possible for you.
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This is a way for any small-time manufacturer to start up a drug business without having a gun-toting distribution network already in place. The anonymity protects them from the cartels (who take a dim view of competition) as much as it protects them from the feds. If it took off, it could take the cartels out of business - or, at least, reform them into peaceful, mail-order businesses instead of the mass-murdering psychopaths we know and love.
It doesn't do anything about a junkie knocking over a store to
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Sending free hard drugs home with schoolchildren in unsealed containers, with a note for their parents, would do the same good thing.
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Yeah there were some really scummy people trying to get rich off Silk Road.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/30/... [cnn.com]
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You mean like the mass market drug dealing done by Anheuser Busch, Starbucks, and Pfizer?
Even under the old Silk Road it seemed a lot less unpleasant than some of the inner city liquor stores I've been to.
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Since tobacco kills 400,000 Americans every year, and I forget how many millions worldwide, I don't get very upset about a drug like cocaine or heroin which kills only about 20,000 Americans a year.
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There was also a good thing about Silk Road: no violence:
http://www.wired.com/2014/06/s... [wired.com]
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.... that all the stick-it-to-the-man trustafarians and right on student types who'll no doubt funded this will eventually wise up and realise the sort of desperately unpleasent people and groups that make a profit out of places like silk road. We're not talking knock off DVDs here or a bit of pot there, this is mass market drug dealing. Just because its online doesn't make it ok.
I wonder just how many of these idiots could send a donation to a columbian drugs gang?
They'd probably argue that columbian drug gangs are just hard working business men heroically refusing to behave like Statist sheeple.
Getting money from venture capital firms? (Score:1)
They are untrustworthy! Just another honeypot...
Freenet (Score:2, Interesting)
All these stories about new darknets, TOR busts, and anonymous networks raising VC funding must tickle the Freenet guy(s) in an entertaining way. How come nobody talks about the darknet that's been around and in use for 15 years.
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How come nobody talks about the darknet that's been around and in use for 15 years.
Not many have been willing to have Freenet traffic resident on their systems or in transit through their networks. That the files are encrypted or fragmented doesn't seem to matter very much.
The geek loves complication and conspiracy for its own sake. He will hang around with the drug lords and the porn kings because he thinks it makes him look cool --- and no force on earth can keep his big mouth shut online or off.
The working spy lives quietly on a modest paycheck, never talks shop, and posts pictures
Wait. How long has there been vice? (Score:1)
This article got me thinking about the history of vice. From Old Testament harlots to Summarian smugglers, has there ever been a time when our institutions like religion and government were not at odds with some kind of vice? How does an anonymous distributed market for illicit goods change things? It feels to me more like a footnote in history and not a game changer.
Breaking Bad ? (Score:2)
Considering what types of goods were commonly exchanged on silk road, I find it amusing they used a *Breaking Bad* T-Shirt listing as an illustration.
Can't win (Score:1)
You can't win. You can't break even. You can't even get out of the game once you're in.
The feds have unlimited resources. They will eventually, sooner than later, bust whoever is running this place. There's no profit in rotting in prison. Chances are the feds have already infiltrated the place as mods and of course as customers.
And it's not harmless. A lot of people in Mexico are dying because of the insatiable appetite for drugs. Blame drug policy all you want, that doesn't erase the practical effects it i
Re:Can't win (Score:5, Insightful)
Come to Washington. All the pot sold in the legal recreational marijuana shops is grown here. Smoke all you want, no Mexican kingpin was enriched, and no innocent person shot.
The ONLY reason there is violence associated with the manufacture and distribution of pot in other places, is because it is illegal. That leaves the market only to criminals, and criminals use violence as part of their business plan. When was the last time the CEOs of Coors and Budweiser got in a shoot out with each other?
The problem with drug gangs could be eliminated immediately by legalizing drugs.
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The problem with drug gangs could be eliminated immediately by legalizing drugs.
Even if that was true, and even if legalizing all drugs didn't contribute to more fucked up lives, it is still the fact that they are illegal now, and you are associating with and funding criminals now.
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It depends on what you mean by criminals. Do you mean regulated businesses paying taxes, wages, FICA on employees, operating under the supervision of the Washington State Liquor Control Board merely because there is conflict between State and Federal laws on the issue? The people operating farms, processing facilities and stores in Washington state are doing so in a heavily regulated environment, moreso than most businesses. Are you saying they are criminals of the same type who would shoot up a town mer
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Actually my weed is grown in the woods behind my house. (i dont live in mexico) And really a whole lot of pot heads are waaaaay into where/who/how it was grown. Most people who are buying the mexican dirtweed are probably first worlders or idiots who suck at buying drugs.
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" A lot of people in Mexico are dying because of the legal status of drugs."
fixed your typo.
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And it's not harmless. A lot of people in Mexico are dying because of the insatiable appetite for drugs. Blame drug policy all you want, that doesn't erase the practical effects it is having RIGHT NOW. Think of that next time you light up that joint
So within your own home, growing and smoking that joint - please explain in detail how that has any effect on an entirely different country like Mexico?
Sounds to me like you are claiming simply owning a house is what kills people, which you are just as guilty of.
Explain. Post every last detail and fact you don't have.
because you're selfish and you don't give a fuck about other people's suffering.
That's far from true. I love watching hypocrites like you suffer!
Slow learners (Score:2)
Apparently this is being done by slow learners. If the FBI wants to stop you from doing something, they're going to stop you. If you're dumb enough to flaunt your invulnerability in their face, they're definitely gonna want to take you down. And they have a lot of smart people with a lot of experience at infiltrating organizations. Has the takedown of the last two Silk Roads taught you nothing?
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these types of people always believe they are smarter than everyone else and can't possibly be caught, it is usually that same attitude that gets them caught as the belief makes them make moronic mistakes (like boasting about being untouchable). They will keep believing that right up until people with badges and guns kick down their doors and then scream how they have been unjustly framed.
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yeah, but what does Andreessen care about the fall guy chumps who actually end up running the code he's chipping it to have written? they're as expendable as any other piece of hardware. it's even in the name Dread Pirate Roberts, except instead of retiring they end up dead or in jail.
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Has the takedown of the last two Silk Roads taught you nothing?
"The FBI was successful taking down these two illegal darknet websites. Therefore, the FBI will be successful in taking down all illegal darknet websites." You fail Intro to Logic.
I'm sure there are some competent people in the FBI, but their track record with technology isn't great. And they know it, which is the reason behind "Operation Onymous", where they took down a small number of darknet markets on the same day using a different method for each one, and not relying on any fundamental flaws in the
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Immediately jumping to absolutes will be your downfall. The world doesn't work that way my friend.
My point is that making a high profile website that thumbs its nose at law enforcement is a very foolish plan. It's attracting attention to a thing that you don't want to attract attention to. This is kind of predator-prey 101 here.
Of course law enforcement doesn't catch every underground marketplace. Likewise, my cat doesn't catch every rodent that walks through my neighborhood. But the parade of small li
NSA ties? (Score:1)