Prenda Gets Hit Hard With Contempt Sanctions For Lying To Court 75
walterbyrd writes: Team Prenda has been beaten up by the courts once again. Given all of the flat out deceit, it's actually a bit anti-climactic that the court has ordered sanctions of just $65,263 against Steele and Hansmeier for contempt of court. As for the obstruction of discovery, the court orders Duffy and Steele to pay Booth Sweet's costs, which the lawyers are told to submit. Some people are still wondering why none of this pattern of deceit, lying and abuse of the court system has not resulted in anything more serious.
Popehat (Score:5, Informative)
If you want an amusing yet informative read on Prenda's exploits, Popehat [popehat.com] is the place to go
Re:Popehat (Score:5, Funny)
If you want an amusing yet informative read on Prenda's exploits, Popehat [popehat.com] is the place to go
Best lines:
The judges were openly incredulous of this strategy. "You want us to send this back for criminal contempt proceedings?" asked Judge Tallman, with the air of a parent asking a toddler whether he really wants to hurl himself down the stairs. "Do you understand that the maximum penalty for contempt is life imprisonment?" I lost a little urine at this point.
...and...
Pregerson followed with perhaps the most devastating line I've ever heard used against a lawyer:
Pregerson: And you're a great lawyer.
Voelker: I appreciate you saying that, Your Honor.
Pregerson: I mean, it says so, right there on your web site.
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"To my friends, everything; to my enemies, the law." The law has become nothing but a tool of oppression and power, with an elaborate cover story to make that not too obvious. All that pontification about "right" and "wrong" serves only to obscure that these days it is (again) basically "do as you are told" and nothing else.
Don't get me wrong, I believe that law can be done in a way that is beneficial and sets sensible borders to acceptable behavior that can be understood and found to be valid and sensible
Simple Answer (Score:1)
It's ok to be a con-man, you just have to be a lawyer as well.
lawyers don't punish lawyers (Score:2)
The lawyers union sticks together.
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I think it's more about judges not wanting to give out huge contempt penalties. The contempt judgements come at the judge's own discretion, with no presentation of evidence. So a judge giving a large contempt penalty may be worried about looking capricious, worried about hurting their own good name, etc.
Lawyers can and will backstab each other, there's no friendship or comeraderie.
Prenda? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Prenda? (Score:5, Informative)
Ditto . . .
Prenda Law a.k.a. Team Prenda [wikipedia.org]
Prenda Law, also known as Steele | Hansmeier PLLP and Anti-Piracy Law Group,[3] was a Chicago-based law firm that ostensibly operated by undertaking litigation against copyright infringement, but was later characterized by the United States District Court for Central California in a May 2013 ruling as a "porno-trolling collective"[4]:2 whose business model "relies on deception",[4]:8 and which resembled most closely a conspiracy[4]:FOF.1 p.3 and racketeering enterprise,[4]:p.10 referring in the judgment to RICO, the United States Federal anti-racketeering law.[4]:p.10[5] The firm ostensibly dissolved itself in July 2013 shortly after the adverse ruling[6] (although onlookers describe Alpha Law Firm LLC as its apparent replacement[7]), while in 2014, ABA Journal-Law News described the "Prenda Law saga" as entering "legal folklore".[8] [...]
My head hurts now
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If only there was some sort of distributed information system that could provide you with the knowledge you desire.
Also there second link *in the summary* provides context.
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What? I've been waiting for decades for a question that line would make a good answer to!
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And what the hell have you been doing for all these decades? Parking cars?!
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He lost his towel
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Re:Prenda? (Score:5, Informative)
TL;DR.
A group of lawyers who set up a system of shell companies to send out settlement records to people downloading illegal pornography. The lawyers were utterly eviscerated when one judge and defending attorney finally said "what's this then?" and starting looking into their actions.
Highlights include:
Shell companies set up using other people's identities without their knowledge.
Sending out settlement letters for works they don't own the rights to.
Setting the settlement price at just below the cost of an adequate defense.
Failure to show up when summoned to court.
Lying to the court... so... so many times.
Not paying the settlements levied against them.
And this wasn't a single court hearing. This was over dozens of court appearances over a timespan of well over a year. They continue to dig the hole they find themselves in deeper and deeper. The saddest part of the whole mess (other than all the people that they bilked out of thousands of dollars) is that they still haven't been disbarred.
Re:Prenda? (Score:5, Insightful)
Not paying the settlements levied against them.
This is the crux of the current brouhaha. The Prenda weasels are blowing off settlements, claiming extreme poverty while desperately shoving huge amounts of money into wholly-owned shell companies and hidden bank accounts.
I want to ask "why are these walking cancer tumors still breathing?", but that's a little extreme. Just a little.
Why are they walking around free? In a just world, they'd be cooling their heels behind bars.
Re:Prenda? (Score:4, Insightful)
In a just world, they'd be dead. They have already proven they will do it again.
Just disbarred (Score:3, Insightful)
The saddest part of the whole mess (other than all the people that they bilked out of thousands of dollars) is that they still haven't been disbarred.
Screw disbarred, I'm thinking that they should be imprisoned
* Identity theft
* Perjury
* (possible) Racketeering
* Failing to comply with a court order
* etc
"Some people" (Score:4)
I seems like the submitter had intended to say "i am wondering" but decided to go all Fox News on it. We can do better than this.
why haven't they been disbarred? (Score:5, Interesting)
seriously, isn't the a good example of lawyers that should be disbarred? lying to the court and using the law to harass seems like good reasons to disbar a lawyer.
Re:why haven't they been disbarred? (Score:5, Informative)
I do believe this is in the works, they have been referred, but the court can only judge this case. It can't disbar them, that's the bar associations job.
Re:why haven't they been disbarred? (Score:4, Informative)
AFAIK, it's not the court who does the disbarring, it's the Bar Society -- which is the professional organization.
I think that now the Bar Society might start taking a look.
But I think it's fairly plain that Booth Sweet and John Steele are lying bastards who have been using the courts for their own profit and generally being dishonest assholes, so hopefully whoever does have authority over the disbarring gets on with it quickly.
Basically they ran a shakedown racket, repeatedly lied to the courts, and lied to the courts in the investigation about lying to the courts.
A credit to their profession as a bunch of oily, thieving bastards.
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AFAIK, it's not the court who does the disbarring, it's the Bar Society -- which is the professional organization.
I think that now the Bar Society might start taking a look.
If the Bar association won't disbar them, then the judge needs to remove the recognized authority of the Bar Association. perhaps then they will sit up and take notice. But I guess that is a catch 22, since the judge will then have no more legal authority either. I guess this is why they let the farce continue.
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I honestly don't know the entire mechanics, but it may well be that any action by the Bar Association doesn't happen until after the courts have made a ruling.
I mean, it's the professional standards body of a bunch of lawyers ... you can bet your ass there's rules and procedures which must be followed.
It sure as hell won't be a process which is sensible to anybody else.
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"Booth Sweet" is not a player in this game...you seem to be thinking of Jason Sweet and Dan Booth, the lawyers who unraveled the finances [arstechnica.com] of John Steele, Paul Hansmeier, and Paul Duffy.
Re:why haven't they been disbarred? (Score:4, Interesting)
One of them resigned to avoid being disbarred. Looks better on his CV I guess.
http://boingboing.net/2014/01/... [boingboing.net]
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Resigning doesn't avoid disbarment. He still passed the Bar Exam, yes? They can still take that away from him.
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I'm more curious as to why they haven't been arrested. If I were charged with contempt of court, I'd expect to be behind bars.
Cops (Score:2)
For the same reason the police departments investigate themselves and find no wrong doing.
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seriously, isn't the a good example of lawyers that should be disbarred? lying to the court and using the law to harass seems like good reasons to disbar a lawyer.
To hell with disbarment, these people need extensive prison time. If *I* got caught running a criminal extortion operation I would be facing 25-to-life FOR EACH COUNT!
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seriously, isn't the a good example of lawyers that should be disbarred? lying to the court and using the law to harass seems like good reasons to disbar a lawyer.
At the very least, shouldn't these lawyers be thrown IN JAIL for contempt at the very least? If Joe Blow was hauled into court and made one white lie to the judge, his ass would be in jail for 90 days!
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Hansmeiers' father heads the MN Ethics Committee (Score:2, Informative)
Seriously. [rajhan.com]
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Plus they have to pay the legal fees for the whole mess, which will far more expensive. That's likely the real reason they are fighting this until they're bankrupt.
Is there one lawyer who isn't a lying fuck? (Score:3)
How many laws do attorneys have to break before they face something beyond a fine? 100? 1000? 10000? If you read the Prenda law articles, it's clear that if a non-lawyer did even one of those things, they would already be in jail by now. Those bastards lied their fucking teeth out, and made real good money doing so. And all they have to pay is a fine. BFD.
New policy. If you see someone in a car accident, or anywhere in public suffering a medical emergency, and you figure out it's a fucking lawyer, leave it to die or live on it's own. If we lived in a just world, you would be allowed to kill it.
I've earned my hostility. Some shithole incompetent attorneys made my life hell for five years or so. There were at least three of them who couldn't find their ass in a well lit room given a full set of written directions. They finally subcontracted to someone who knew what he was doing, and it got sorted out. I don't know what was worse: they fact that they took on work that was beyond them, or the fact that it took years for them to admit/realize they were complete losers.
Punch a lawyer in the face today. You'll be glad you did.
Re:Is there one lawyer who isn't a lying fuck? (Score:5, Insightful)
We condemn the entire industry because those are just a drop in the bucket of bad experiances. It seems the bad apples spoil the remaining 10%.
Re:Is there one lawyer who isn't a lying fuck? (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes, by all means, let us condemn and entire industry because of your real-world, terrible experience, or the assholes mentioned in the Prenda story. Yes, that's perfectly logical and is a sensible, productive way to run society. I mean, what could possibly go wrong?
Yes, it is definitely wrong to judge a group based on just one member, but how about when 90% or more of it's members are an issue? I have known dozens of lawyers, and I have known one that was a useful and good person. Of the others, I will admit that most of them weren't openly evil, just evil by being useless and not doing their job when some other lawyer was attempting to do you evil. However, in some circumstances I have worked for lawyers and in those cases, the lawyer was quite definitely openly evil such that I will never again work for a company that has a lawyer in its upper management.
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My experience is a bit better. Most of the lawyers I've dealt with were aggressively defending my rights.
That being said, those were all fairly high-priced lawyers who have had decades of experience before I chose them. In addition, they were all highly recommended before I ever contacted them.
I guess it's just another example of 'you get what you pay for'.
Re:Is there one lawyer who isn't a lying fuck? (Score:4, Interesting)
I guess it's just another example of 'you get what you pay for'.
In this case, I believe the phrase is "exactly as much justice as you can afford"
Don't you have an ambulance to chase. (Score:1)
Re:Is there one lawyer who isn't a lying fuck? (Score:4, Interesting)
As someone who was the victim of a litigation started by greedy family members using a lawyer who failed at some his basic fiduciary responsibilities, I can concur that there are some damned shady, or just as often incompetent lawyers. In a nutshell, my grandmother gave me a piece of property, some family members agreed with that while she was still of sound mind, but as soon as she started suffering dementia, they got a lawyer to sue my ass off. This lawyer was effectively acting as my grandmother's legal council, and he never actually even met her. That was one among a number of serious ethical lapses that ended up costing me about $100,000 (my legal costs plus the pay out I made because, I confess, three years of legal hell just made me make the problem go away).
But to counter that awful story, my lawyer, who cost me about 40% of that $100k, was absolute fantastic, worth every penny, and who would inform me before making statements or depositions that I wasn't to lie and was to take my oath to tell the truth seriously.As with all occupations, the fact that there are bad, even sociopathically evil lawyers, does not mean all lawyers are of a similar bent.
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Reading this, and based on my personal experience, I doubt it.
Perhaps you should re-read it, considering that there's a lawyer on the other side that's taking Prenda down.
How many laws do attorneys have to break before they face something beyond a fine? 100? 1000? 10000? If you read the Prenda law articles, it's clear that if a non-lawyer did even one of those things, they would already be in jail by now. Those bastards lied their fucking teeth out, and made real good money doing so. And all they have to pay is a fine. BFD.
That's because before someone goes to jail, you have to have a trial and a conviction. And while Prenda's cases have been dismissed with prejudice, and they've had to pay damages and fines for sanctions, they haven't been criminally charged. You know, for someone whining about lawyers, you sure don't know much about the legal system.
Don't assume we all know what Prenda is (Score:2, Insightful)
A little hint about what Prenda is and why they're in court would've been nice. We can't all read and recall every single Slashdot story that has come before.
And no, I shouldn't "Google it" or "RTFA." That's the whole point of a summary (and the article isn't much more informative, in any case). I should be able to work out whether I'm interested in reading the story without resorting to another source.
Some comments about the US legal system (Score:5, Interesting)
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Many people seem to think that lawyers just popped into a case and started all this ruckus. However, that's not true. Attorneys represent parties with conflicts. The parties in conflict hate each other; that's why they're in court. So each attorney is trying to win the case for their client. Thus, each client thinks that the other side's attorney is a bad person because they are an extension of the other side.
Therein lies the problem. With most court cases, you will have one winner and one loser. Fifty perc
Severe punishment of a lawyer? Not likely. (Score:2)
Remember, Judges and prosecutors are lawyers too, and lawyers protect their own.
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And most politicians are lawyers too, so good luck getting any laws passed that are harder on abusive lawyers.
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Some people are still wondering why none of this pattern of deceit, lying and abuse of the court system has not resulted in anything more serious
Remember, Judges and prosecutors are lawyers too, and lawyers protect their own.
Actually, if you read the court proceedings in question, the judges threatened Prenda principles with life in prison.
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I always though it was the 98% of bad lawyers give the 2% of good ones a bad name. :)
Lawyers are a protected class? (Score:2)
Lawyers apparently look out for each other, and judges are lawyers. They have managed to avoid paying these sanctions for more than two years, have not been disbarred, have not been sent to jail, nothing. Any bets on what would have happened to a non-lawyer who tried these shenanigans?
Appointed to Bar ethics comittee, not disbarred (Score:2)