Two Gunman Killed Outside "Draw the Prophet" Event In Texas 1097
cosm writes: ABC news reports that two armed gunman were shot and killed outside a "Draw the Prophet" event hosted in Garland Texas. From the article: "The event, sponsored by the American Freedom Defense Initiative, featured cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad, and scheduled speakers included Dutch MP Geert Wilders, who has campaigned to have the Quran banned in the Netherlands. The winner of the contest was to receive $10,000." In light of the Charlie Hebdo terrorist attacks, the Lars Vilks Muhammad drawing controversies, and the American show South Park's satirical depiction of the state of Muhammad phobia in the US and elsewhere, is there an end in sight to the madness associated with the representation of this religious figure?
Looks like the prophet's gunmen (Score:5, Funny)
were slow at the draw - texas style...
Re:Looks like the prophet's gunmen (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Looks like the prophet's gunmen (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, when all you have to convince people that they should work for you is promises of eternal bliss after death without any kind of proof, you can't really expect nobel prize material to flock to you...
Re:Looks like the prophet's gunmen (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, when all you have to convince people that they should work for you is promises of eternal bliss after death without any kind of proof, you can't really expect nobel prize material to flock to you...
Not sure that's the only reason. Some of these people are just looking for something in which they can get deeply involved, out of the ordinary society stuff. They would actually love being enrolled in some armies to fight for a country, kill or be killed, but they just don't see themselves fighting for our western countries. So the actual reason may not really be Santa Claus / God / Mahomet / [...] and the "eternal bliss", but just the desire to fight for something in which they feel more free than within the regular organized and stricter western armies.
The nature of any polygamous religion (Score:5, Insightful)
One of the biggest problems in any polygamous society is getting rid of young men. Every man with 4 wives leaves 3 angry, young, horny men in his wake who got no wives. So Islam came up with the perfect solution, Martyrdom! Just blow yourself up in some mall and get all the virgins you want!
Dumb motherfuckers.
Re:The nature of any polygamous religion (Score:5, Interesting)
One of the biggest problems in any polygamous society is getting rid of young men. Every man with 4 wives leaves 3 angry, young, horny men in his wake who got no wives.
This is not only a problem in polygamous societies, but also in countries with gender selective abortions, including China and India. There are already more than 10 million "missing" women in China, and the problem will get far worse in the next decade, as millions and millions of young men reach maturity to find there are no women available. This is very likely to have a destabilizing effect throughout East Asia, since unattached young men tend to support political leaders who advocate nationalism, militarism, and confrontation.
Re:Looks like the prophet's gunmen (Score:5, Insightful)
But that's not all fanatics have. It's just local flavoring. What their message is is the same as always before: "All your problems are caused by group X. Join me and take your revenge!"
Such memetic viruses don't strike at stupidity but at lack of self-awareness and -control - in other words, immaturity - and consequently, being smart - even Nobel-smart - doesn't help protect against them. In fact, should the infection take hold, all that intelligence will simply be used to construct elaborate rationalizations of the fanaticism's guise which make it even more virulent.
Fanaticism is a memetic disease. If you have lots of angry young people, you get outbreaks, just like with flu. And sooner or later one of these outbreaks mutates into a form that can cause an epidemic, or perhaps even a pandemic. In the 30's, we got fascism which eventually mutated into nazism; in the middle of the century we got small outbreaks of red terrorism, but thankfully general prosperity made the population too resistant for transmission to continue except in much-diluted form; and right now we're seeing an epidemic which is parasiting on Islam. Islam itself isn't the problem, it simply provides a new outer form - like robes for a ringwraith - for the same force that was behind Hitler and has now returned for round n+1. But the heart of this darkness is the same as it has always been.
The question is: what to do about all this? Is this some kind of inevitable function of human biology or merely an artifact from our cultural past? Would it be possible to rid the world of suhc maladjusted memes once and for all, or perhaps develop memes that work as antidotes - for example, surely knowing all this helps notice when someone's trying to pull the trick on you? As noted above, greater general prosperity would help a lot, but is not foolproof, is already being worked on, and perhaps most importantly, current iteration of the fanaticism pandemic seems to be evolving to get around it - bin Laden came from a very privileged background, and many people who have lived their entire lives in the West have gone to join Isis.
Re:All the devout know.. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:All the devout know.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Anybody who wants a virgin has never had one.
Re:All the devout know.. (Score:5, Funny)
Steve Martin answered the question about what 72 virgins might really be like, and his answer follows:
Virgin No. 1: Yuck.
Virgin No. 2: Ick.
Virgin No. 3: Ew.
Virgin No. 4: Ow.
Virgin No. 5: Do you like cats? I have fourteen!
Virgin No. 6: I’m Becky. I’ll be legal in two years.
Virgin No. 7: Here, I’ll just pull down your zipper. Oh, sorry!
Virgin No. 8: Can we cuddle first?
Virgin No. 9: It was a garlic-and-onion pizza. Why?
Virgin No. 10: . . . so I see Heath, and he goes, “Like, what are you doing here?,” and I go, “I’m hangin’ out,” so he goes, “Like, what?” . . .
Virgin No. 11: First you’re going to have to show me an up-to-date health certificate.
Virgin No. 12: Hurry! My parents are due home!
Virgin No. 13: Do you want the regular or the special?
Virgin No. 14: I’m eighty-four. So what?
Virgin No. 15: Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!
Virgin No. 16: Even I know that’s tiny.
Virgin No. 17: “Do it”? Meaning what?
Virgin No. 18: I’m saving myself for Jesus.
Virgin No. 19: Somewhere on my body I have hidden a buffalo nickel.
Virgin No. 20: Don’t touch my hair!
Virgin No. 21: I hope you’re not going to sleep with me and then go sleep with seventy-one others.
Virgin No. 22: Do you mind if we listen to Mannheim Steamroller?
Virgin No. 23: Are you O.K. with the dog on the bed?
Virgin No. 24: Would you mind saying, “Could I see you in my office, Miss Witherspoon?”?
Virgin No. 25: Ride me! Ride me, Lucky Buck!
Virgin No. 26: You like your vanilla hot?
Virgin No. 27: Does Ookums like Snookums?
Virgin No. 28: It’s so romantic here, dead.
Virgin No. 29: Well, I’m a virgin, but my hand isn’t.
Virgin No. 30: You are in?
Virgin No. 31: Hi, cowboy. I just rode down from Brokeback Mountain.
Virgin No. 32: I’m a virgin because I’m so ugly.
Virgin No. 33: You like-ee?
Virgin No. 34: I’ll betcha you can’t get an erection. Go on, impress me. C’mon, show me. Show me, big shot.
Virgin No. 35: By the way, here in Heaven “virgin” has a slightly different meaning. It means “chatty.”
Virgin No. 36: Sure, I like you, but as a friend.
Virgin No. 37: No kissing. I save that for my boyfriend.
Virgin No. 38: I’m Zania, from the planet Xeron. My vagina is on my foot.
Virgin No. 39: It’s a lesion, and, no, I don’t know what kind.
Virgin No. 40: I’m Jewish. Why do you ask?
Virgin No. 41: Hi, I’m Becky. Oh, whoops—you again.
Virgin No. 42: I just love camping! Camping is so great! Can we go camping sometime?
Virgin No. 43: In the spirit of full disclosure, I’m a single mom.
Virgin No. 44: You like my breasts? They were my graduation gift.
Virgin No. 45: When you’re done, you should really check out how cool this ceiling is.
Virgin No. 46: I’m almost there. Just another couple of hours.
Virgin No. 47: Get your own beer, you nitwit.
Virgin No. 48: No, you’ve got it wrong. We’re in the Paradise Casino.
Virgin No. 49: I really enjoyed that. Thank you very much. Gee, it’s late.
Virgin No. 50: You make me feel like a real woman. And after this is over I’m going to find one.
Virgin No. 51: What do you mean, “move a little”?
Virgin No. 52: Not now, I’m on my BlackBerry.
Virgin No. 53: I love it when you put on your pants and leave.
Virgin No. 54: We’ve been together twenty-four hours now, and, you know, sometimes it’s O.K. to say something mildly humorous.
Virgin No. 55: That was terrible. I should have listened to the other virgins.
Virgin No. 56: I think I found it. Is that it?
Re:All the devout know.. (Score:4, Funny)
you guys know its a several hundred year old typo, right?
the corrected script actually says "72 YEAR OLD virgin". and you get one of them, just one.
now, if that's worth killing yourself over, hey, its your [after]life, not mine!
Re:Looks like the prophet's gunmen (Score:4, Informative)
Given the uses for a gun exactly what use would you have for one that would merit bringing it to work with you?
If you are so afraid that you need to carry a gun to work with you, then you may want to consider moving to a safer area.
Life long gun owner here, but I see no reason to bring one to work with me.
As a TX CHL holder, the main reason I'd have a pistol at work is that I'd like to have it with me before and after work. Those two times are when most of the running around/errands get done, and if I can't have it at work, it would mean driving home, getting it, and going back out again. I don't particularly like leaving it in the car (secured or not), because it's just too easy to break into, and too difficult to get an IWB holster on and off unseen while sitting in a car.
Re:Looks like the prophet's gunmen (Score:5, Insightful)
If you are so afraid that you need to carry a gun to work with you, then you may want to consider moving to a safer area.
What utter horseshit. what if you're poor and can't afford the safer area? You can't defend yourself because you work a menial job, or went into bankruptcy after a major medical condition. Guns are the great equalizer and everyone deserves to have them and defend themselves.
Re:Looks like the prophet's gunmen (Score:5, Insightful)
"...then you may want to consider moving to a safer area."
I wish that were so easy. I'm licensed to carry a concealed weapon and carry my pistol pretty much wherever I go. The only time I had to defend myself I was in a very safe area. It just so happens that was the same are where someone decided he was going to start beating the woman who was with him. He took exception to me witnessing the beating and calling the police and decided I would be the next target of his rage. Fortunately, as with most defensive uses of a handgun, I didn't have to fire a shot.
If needing to defend oneself was restricted to specific geographic areas then I would, as you suggest, simply move to a safer area. The problem is you don't know where something will happen and the only question will be whether or not you're prepared.
Re:Looks like the prophet's gunmen (Score:5, Interesting)
Really? Or do you want to ignore the fact of the low murder rate in easy to legally get a gun Plano, Texas (.4 per 100,000) and the highest murder rate in the hard to legally get a gun city of Detroit (54.6 per 100,000)? The numbers are striking: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L... [wikipedia.org]
I'm afraid such crimes are not uniformly distributed across the country as your stats attempt to portray, and if you exclude a few notable locations which disproportionally have rather high numbers, the national average begins to drop quickly.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
"Texas". That's really the only part of that sentence you need. I would be surprised if the people attending and local homes weren't about as well armed as the police in the article.
Re:Looks like the prophet's gunmen (Score:5, Interesting)
"Texas". That's really the only part of that sentence you need. I would be surprised if the people attending and local homes weren't about as well armed as the police in the article.
Even if I wasn't normally armed, there is no way I would go to a rally like this without a weapon.
You basically knew you were walking into a war zone. My guess is that the reason it was held
in Texas was exactly because of the available gun laws, the death penalty statutes, and other
similiar laws. This was pretty much a honeypot operation with the SWAT team on standby.
Re:Looks like the prophet's gunmen (Score:4, Informative)
Your guess is wrong. It was held at this venue because of a "Stand With The Prophet" event that was held at the same place after the Charlie Hebdo massacre. The purpose of that event was to highlight that the media and American Islamaphobes are the reason that Islam has such a bad reputation in the west. More can be read here [freebeacon.com].
Re:Looks like the prophet's gunmen (Score:5, Insightful)
So, how many people died when an artist showed his masterpiece of a crucifix in a jar of piss? Or how about the shit-covered Madonna work?
Your biases are showing.
Re:Looks like the prophet's gunmen (Score:5, Funny)
Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
QUIT USING THE SUBJECT LINE AS PART OF YOUR COMMENTS!! It was a bad idea when the first person started it and it's still a bad idea!
Don't blame the commenters, blame the Slashdot editors for introducing subject lines to begin with.
Like deer hunting in Texas (Score:5, Interesting)
They place containers of corn in plain site of their blinds for weeks, then hide out on opening day of hunting season and take the deer by the dozens
Seems like they were baiting for 'terrorists' in a similar way
Re:Like deer hunting in Texas (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Those terrorist sucks (Score:5, Insightful)
Surprise? Surprise? The whole purpose of this contest was to attract a Jihadi to shoot. Why else the extra extra guards?
Perfectly Texas entertainment. I'm calling this a success.
Re:Those terrorist sucks (Score:4, Interesting)
I am missing something or they were totally utterly untrained with the used weapon.
Aiming is considered pointless by devout muslims. It is not the aiming that decides where a bullet goes, but Allah's hand. If you are destined to hit, you will; if not, you cannot override Allah's will by aiming. Same thinking (to use the word loosely) goes for e.g. wearing seatbelts - Allah decides whether you survive a car crash.
Suicide mission (Score:5, Interesting)
~~
Re:Suicide mission (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't care what your belief is, there is a right to turn up and speak your mind. The alternative is a cult - an unquestioned entity that demands belief based on no facts. If your only response to criticism is bullets then your argument is weak, and what you believe in is worth no more than some madmen willing to defend it with bombs, death and fear. Unscientific dross. State your point and then leave. If your point doesn't hold water then we're under no obligation. Killing us won't prove your point, it just reduces our number but not our resolve.
Do they deserve to have a voice? Yes.
Do they have the right to be heard? Yes.
Do their words have to be heard? No.
Say what you will but don't expect everyone to listen.
Re:Suicide mission (Score:5, Funny)
The fortunate part of suicide missions is that there is a very small percentage of repeat offenders.
Re:Suicide mission (Score:5, Insightful)
I see nothing unfortunate in two men willing to take lives over cartoons being killed themselves before they were able to kill anyone.
You find drawings of Mohammed offensive and want to organise a non-violent protest? I support your right to do so.
Re:Suicide mission (Score:4, Funny)
'One must have a heart of stone to read the death of little Nell without laughing.' - Oscar Wilde
Re: (Score:3)
The message is murder. Don't let the bullshit about cartoons fool you.
Re:Suicide mission (Score:4, Insightful)
Practically everyone arranges their life around a fairy tale of one sort or another.
Some learn it in a mosque, some in church, some in history and civics class. Yes, that includes Atheists. Just because they don't believe in God doesn't mean they don't believe in a shared mythos. Some are more helpful and practical than others but make no mistake, they are myths.
In America, many organize their lives around the myth that they are temporarily embarrassed millionaires and so consistently vote against their own interests.
Re:Suicide mission (Score:5, Informative)
Atheists do not believe in a shared mythos. Atheism is nothing more than lack of belief in a god.
Draw The Pedophile (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Draw The Pedophile (Score:4, Informative)
its "prophet" who married a 6 year old.
Oh please. Political marriages of young girls were common in those days. He waited until she was nine to consummate it.
Being a pedophile was Mohammad's example - FOREVER (Score:5, Informative)
its "prophet" who married a 6 year old.
Oh please. Political marriages of young girls were common in those days. He waited until she was nine to consummate it.
Ummmmm no they weren't. It was one of many scandals that pedophile Mohammad explained away with "Allah told me to do it". Mohammad had a "revelation" to marry her.
It simply isn't a case that "That's what they did back then". The Koran very explicitly states that Muslims must follow the "sunnah" or example of Mohammad. It is in the Koran so that means FOREVER! These are recorded in what are called the hadiths (orally transmitted information about Mohammad's life and actions) . So Muslims are OBLIGED to do everything contained in hadiths that are sahih (trusted). Mohammad was recorded literally dozens of times as having sex with a little 9 year old girl in these sahih hadiths. Ever wondered why ISIS, the Taliban and other fundamentalist Muslims are into marrying little girls. Just following the example of pedophile Mohammad which is FOREVER.
So marrying and having sex with little 9 year old girls like Aysha is a "perfect" example for Muslims THEN NOW AND FOREVER.
It gets even more disgusting and worse!!!!!! Mohammad was even more depraved than "merely" having vaginal sex with little 9 year old girls.
He was performing "Muta Kathat" on Aisha when she was 6 when he first married her. BTW, "Muta Kathat" was anal sex and masturbation between the thighs.
Ask a Muslim about "Muta Kathat". They either will honestly not know what it is (fewer than one or two percent have ever read the hadiths or Mohammad's biography the sira.. only about 10% of Muslims have ever read the Quran!) or they will lie about it with the hope that you didn't actually check out what was written (and Islam obliges Muslims to lie 'if of help to Islam' - rather difficult to get converts when your founder in the modern day would be on a sexual offenders register or with a prison file stamped "never to be released").
Not only was he performing pedophile sex acts with a little 6 year old girl (yes, it's 6, not 9!!!), he was performing pedophile acts on little boys, The hadiths explain that one away with some nonsense about the "miraculous and soothing effects" of Mohammad's saliva.
Further, Mohammad was a necrophile, having sex with his dead aunt Fatima "to make her a mother of the believers".
He even was a cross-dresser, dressing up in the clothes of his wives. His favorite dressing up was in the clothing of the above mentinoed Aysha. You may start asking questions of Mohammad being married for more than 10 years with more than 10 wives yet only achieving one child!
I didn't even discuss other parts of Mohamamd's "achievements" such as his rapes, his murders of old women poets for writing satires, his genocides against other tribes or his banditry.
No, I'm not "anti-muslim". I feel that Muslims are in fact the biggest victims if Islam. Imagine belonging to a cult (yes, Islam fulfills all the academic criteria of being a cult such as death if you leave it, exclusivity, avoiding association and marriage with non-members, substantial efforts into recruitment and so on) whose Koran tells you that family members are OBLIGED to shun you if you leave and even tells its members to kill you if you don't recant on your decision to be an apostate. Please take your bigoted "raghead" comments elsewhere (I didn't say "racist", Islam is not an ethnicity, it is a "faith").
Posting as an Anonymous Coward for good reason. If you think that fundamentalist Muslims get upset about cartoons, you should see them when you point out explicitly where in the Koran, the hadiths and the sira the things I mentioned above are said.
Re:Draw The Pedophile (Score:4, Insightful)
If you're judging everybody by today's moral standards, I doubt you could find a single person in history before ~1600 who couldn't be depicted as a demon.
There's a difference between the way society has behaved throughout history and anachronistic activities like concentration camps.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Just doing my job, or just doing a job?
Are you vilifying a man who went out of his way to marry an underage girl?
Or are you vilifying a man who married a girl, taking into account that the concept of underage didn't not even remotely exist at the time, and that marriages at that age were not out of the ordinary?
People adapt their social normals to their current society. American's have a mortal fear of seeing someone else's genitalia in public and many European nations mock them for it. None the less what i
'armless (Score:5, Funny)
tfs wrote
two armed gunman
What other kind of gunman is there? If they were unarmed they couldn't be gunmen. I guess it could mean two-armed gunmen, in which case all is forgiven.
Schmuck bait. (Score:5, Interesting)
You would think even people stupid and fanatic enough to do this would know that Texas is the wrong place to try and pull a Charlie Hebdo.
misrepresentation of Islam (Score:5, Informative)
No, it is not "explicitly banned in Islam".
It may or may not be a sign of "grave disrespect", but so what? Having your beliefs disrespected is part of life, whether you're a Muslim, Christian, Jew, Buddhist, or atheist.
Re:misrepresentation of Islam (Score:5, Insightful)
The difference between Muslims and Christians (especially those in the US), is that the most conservative Muslims actually try to live they way their religion teaches (including not just the Qur'an, but the Old Testament as well), and yes, idolatry is a very serious no-no. Just think if the most conservative Christians would actually live the way Jesus taught.... putting all their energy into feeding the poor, housing and clothing those without, helping the sick... instead we have the most conservative Christians doing pretty much everything opposite of how Jesus' teachings go; they're just not as dedicated as the conservative Muslims are.
Re: (Score:3)
Idiots (Score:3, Insightful)
I think they're all childish idiots. The people attending that meeting, with their provoking "who can draw the best Mohammed cartoon." Come on, your days at high school are a very long time away and you should behave like an adult now. And the idiot Muslims who think it's necessary to shoot everybody who doesn't have their opinion. We don't live in the Middle Ages anymore you idiots. And if you like killing so much why don't you kill some of your own kind? You're very good at that, we see that daily on TV.
And now get off my lawn, all of you! Crazy children.
Idiots keeping us safe, it seems (Score:3, Insightful)
I think they're all childish idiots. The people attending that meeting, with their provoking "who can draw the best Mohammed cartoon." Come on, your days at high school are a very long time away and you should behave like an adult now.
Why shouldn't we provoke them? It's a nice, relatively controlled environment with security guards who were able to take them out. We provoke them, they try to murder us, we kill them first. It seems like a very nice system, really. We really should start setting up more jihadi honeypots.
The alternative is what... having these lunatics walking around in our society, on the *brink* of being murderers but not quite there yet, ready to snap on some other occasion when there isn't a SWAT team nearby to t
Re:Idiots keeping us safe, it seems (Score:5, Insightful)
Have you ever stopped to think that perhaps part of the reason they as so god damn fucking angry is BECAUSE of the dropped bombs?
I just wonder, how many years of bombs being dropped on your families would it take for you to consider a driveby on the people doing it?
But no, its the RELIGION thats the problem.. cannot be anything else.
Re:Idiots (Score:4, Insightful)
I think they're all childish idiots. The people attending that meeting, with their provoking "who can draw the best Mohammed cartoon." Come on, your days at high school are a very long time away and you should behave like an adult now.
Regardless of their motives, I'm glad they held this event. Two people who were ready, willing, and able to murder over cartoons being drawn were lured into a death trap. Good. Let them burn in Hell (if such a place/state exists).
The events may be childish, but when it brings out murderous fanatics and gets those fanatics killed before they can kill innocent people, then by all means hold them every day of the week and twice on Sunday. My good friend Darwin has informed me that eventually, we'll run out of murderous fanatics.
Shooters? (Score:4, Insightful)
"two armed gunman were shot and killed"... by whom? Who were they? After reading the article it seems clear that the two gunmen killed were religious fanatics, and the killers were police officers who were defending the event. This should be in the summary, I think
That's a rather loaded question at the end... (Score:4, Insightful)
"is there an end in sight to the madness associated with the representation of this religious figure?"
Yes.
But you won't like the answer and it's not politically correct. Ergo, our current political establishment refuses to even admit its existence.
Trying to shoot up some place in Texas? (Score:3)
That's like trying to rob the donut joint across the street from a police station...
Liberty (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Liberty (Score:4, Insightful)
Reliance upon the government to protect you after you have insulted someone is not freedom
What exactly is it that you think Government does?
Because collective security is the most basic function of Government.
As an example, if you insult the King of Thailand, the only thing keeping the Thai government from crossing borders to take you in for prosecution is your government.
Or do you think you can defend yourself against the resources of a nation state?
Wait, what? (Score:5, Interesting)
So..... these guys set up an event supposedly to protect free speech and all, and then they invite a guy "who has campaigned to have the Quran banned in the Netherlands."
I can't put my finger on it but something here doesn't fit :P
Irony? (Score:5, Insightful)
The event, sponsored by the American Freedom Defense Initiative, featured cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad, and scheduled speakers included Dutch MP Geert Wilders, who has campaigned to have the Quran banned in the Netherlands.
so aparantly they don't really care about freedom. The irony is biting. Cut off your nose to spite your face. While I certainly believe its OK to draw Muhammad, even lampoon him.(along with any and all other religeous figures) and in fact I promote it, you're a total hypocrit if you want to ban the koran. In fact you've proved your just as crazy as the gunman.
Re:Don't mess with Texas (Score:5, Insightful)
It was the cops who shot the gunmen, so what the 2nd has to do with it, I can't fathom.
Re: (Score:3)
The Whitney and MOMA wouldn't give Pam Geller the time of day, much less a venue for an event designed solely as a provocation to religious extremists. And make no mistake, this is exactly what she wanted to happen.
Not seeing the problem (Score:5, Insightful)
Organizing a deliberately provocative event is a clear statement of support for free speech. A clear statement that allowing potentially offensive speech is essential to a free society. Other reactions to Charlie Hebdo - how we have to tread carefully and avoid offense - are utterly wrong.
Terrorists are barbarians, and are a direct threat to civilization. Apparently, the Texan reaction to barbarism is "bring it on".
More power to Texas. I hope other places find the courage to hold similar events.
Re:Don't mess with Texas (Score:4, Informative)
Yeah. Wilders has a large armed guard in the Netherlands too, where the gun homicide rate is seven percent of that of Texas.
And Netherlands gun violence is high by European standards - a lot of the crime is related to North-African gangs.
Re:Don't mess with Texas (Score:5, Informative)
Vermont, Maine and New Hampshire have the most white populations, and their gun-related homicide rates are 0.3, 0.8 and 0.4 per 100,000 respectively. That's between 1.5 and 4 times the gun related homicide rate in the Netherlands. And that's the Netherlands as a whole, not a conveniently cherry picked stat that I've allowed for the US. I couldn't find a racial breakdown for Dutch murder rates either, not that it makes a difference.
I've had to use gun-related murder stats as I couldn't find comparable numbers for gun related violence.
Re:Don't mess with Texas (Score:5, Informative)
Why do people always look to "gun-related" murder stats as though being murdered by a gun is somehow worse than being murdered by other means. The intentional homicide rate in the Netherlands in 2012 (latest easy to find stats) was 0.9. In Vermont, it was 1.3. Higher, yes, but since the numbers we're playing with are single-digits (8 in Vermont in 2012), that's rather skewed. Looking back at recent history, there were years where it was as high at 16 and as low as 6. If you go back into the 1960s, it was as low as 1 or 2, and now we're getting into Iceland territory.
The Netherlands is certainly its own country, but the better comparison to the United States is Europe as a whole. Europe comes in at 3.0 and the US comes in at 4.7. Again, looking at all intentional homicides; not just gun-related (because being murdered by a kitchen knife leaves you just as dead as being murdered by a .22). Higher, yes, but when you look at regions with analogous geographic sizes, populations, and cultural variations, the numbers don't express any ludicrously high differences.
Re:Don't mess with Texas (Score:4, Informative)
Apparently, you need a little remedial math yourself. The US murder rate is 4.7/100000. Europe's murder rate is 3.0/100000. That's already not so different. Now, about half of US murders are committed by African Americans, who make up about 1/8 of the population. If you adjust the rate of that population to the national average, you get a US murder rate of less than 2.7/100000.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L... [wikipedia.org]
Europeans manage to murder each other just fine despite strict gun control. The population that owns guns in the US legally and that tells you "Fuck You" is not the population that commits murders. In fact, in the US, increases in gun ownership and sales have correlated with decreases in murder rate.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
And don't forget to load your hollow points with pork.
Re:The Perfect Bait (Score:5, Insightful)
I've seen many cartoons depicting Jesus, but I can't recall many protests or people getting killed for it.
Re: The Perfect Bait (Score:5, Insightful)
Naw, the difference between them and us, is that they have countries where they LYNCH apostates, and the lynching parties are legal.
Re: (Score:3)
A protest isn't the same as murder.
Itzly wrote: "I can't recall many protests or people getting killed for it". Your reply implies that that I shouldn't have reacted to the word "protests", only to the much stronger "killed". Yet, the fact that Itzly wrote it implies that I should have read it and registered the impression that even protests are almost unheard of. This is a way of sneaking poor arguments into a discussion by attaching a much harder-to-dispute statement to it.
No, probably not (Score:5, Interesting)
You might recall that during the whole "draw Mohammad" controversy South Park took it on. While the were not allowed to show Mohammad at all, they did show people literally shitting on Jesus, the American flag, and so on. They received zero threats in relation to that, there was no action taken against them.
It's not like Christians didn't know either, it is a major syndicated TV show that is produced in the US.
Re: (Score:3)
Just organize these events regularly and you'll smoke out the crazy jihadists.
Organise a "draw Jesus sodomizing Mary" contest in Texas and you'll get crazy Christian jihadists doing the same thing. If you set up an event specifically designed to insult/offend/antagonise a particular religion, you're always going to get a response like this from someone.
You don't even have to mock a religion. Look here: http://youtu.be/pKcJ-0bAHB4 [youtu.be]
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Charlie Hebdo made more fun of Jesus and Mary than Mohammed, yet guess who went in and killed people?
Who actually believes this stuff? (Score:5, Insightful)
Organise a "draw Jesus sodomizing Mary" contest in Texas and you'll get crazy Christian jihadists doing the same thing.
No, you wouldn't. You really, really wouldn't.
If you set up an event specifically designed to insult/offend/antagonise a particular religion, you're always going to get a response like this from someone.
Please stop spouting nonsense: http://www.theonion.com/articl... [theonion.com] (NSFW)
Re:The Perfect Bait (Score:4, Insightful)
You'll get signs and yelling. You won't get assassins.
Stop trying to draw parallels where none exist.
Re:The Perfect Bait (Score:5, Insightful)
If you set up an event specifically designed to insult/offend/antagonise a particular religion
The point of Muslim iconoclasm is that Mohammud is merely God's messenger and is not divine himself. The Muslims who are "offended" are the ones who don't actually understand why they have the rule in the first place. And why the rule doesn't apply to non-Muslims in the first place.
(Ironically much like Christian iconoclasm while it lasted.)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You will get 'a response' but that response will depend on the religion of the offendee.
Islam = bombings, shootings, stabbings
all other religions = slogans, placards, letters to the editor.
Islam is violent. Wake up to the truth!
tip of the iceberg (Score:5, Interesting)
Except it doesn't end there. It can never end there. I mean hell, the hadith have in the past been widely interpreted to forbid all artwork of animals and humans. They've given up that battle... for now. But rest assured, they have not forgotten. None of this barbarous shit in any of the Abrahamic faiths can ever be truly forgotten, because all sitting there in the unalterable book waiting for someone to decide to take it literally again."Respect" for religious insanity is a continuous spectrum of masochistic self-censorship trailing down into an infinite abyss. Or do you really, honestly believe that ISIS's current set of laws is the most extreme interpretation possible?
It's possible to resist the scaremongering of the right (no, neither ISIS nor any of the other bearded fuckwits are in any position to do us significant harm at this very moment ) while still acknowledging that over the long run this is a zero sum game with no possibility of common ground.
We cannot share a planet with these people. So yes, let's keep making the bastards angry.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
That's the level of deliberate stirring we're seeing and it is designed to get a response - bbq in synagogue level squared. If I was in law enforcement in that place I'd make them have their international trollfest way out in the desert so bystanders don't get killed if someone takes the bait.
Re: (Score:3)
That's the level of deliberate stirring we're seeing and it is designed to get a response - bbq in synagogue level squared.
You need to get your... *something* re-calibrated. I recommend the Onion (NSFW): http://www.theonion.com/articl... [theonion.com]
If I was in law enforcement in that place I'd make them have their international trollfest way out in the desert so bystanders don't get killed if someone takes the bait.
I'm not exactly the biggest fan of the Texan way of life but in this case I would love to see the exact opposite--jihadi honeypots. Highly visible,
Re: (Score:3)
our freedom of speech expression apparently explicitly puts the BBQ in a synagogue. Unless you somehow got permission to do so, it's likely that you would be trespassing and - with the smoke from the BBQ - damaging property.
You could certainly hold your BBQ outside the synagogue, but then it would probably be just a BBQ. I'd imagine there's hot dog carts nearby synagogues in NYC, for example, without any particular issue.
And just to make the point CLEAR...
EVEN if you broke into the synagogue and even if you were trespassing and even if the smoke caused property damage...
THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT IS OK TO KILL PEOPLE OVER IT.
Ok, I know you get that, but I'm replying to you because... well, you're there...
Re:Attacking me now are you? (Score:5, Insightful)
I am saying this sincerely, in a non-mocking tone--recalibrate you view of what these events actually are. Yes, Wilders and Gellar are asshats, but I am suggesting that you evaluate their asshatery in the context of the cornucopia of human douchebags in the country. Yes, I'm sure the hurt feelings of Muslims are real--but try and evaluate the inflmatory nature of these cartoons in the context of the Onion cartoon I set you, or the censored South Park episode, or the Piss Christ controversy from the 90s, etc.
Recalibration is something you do with a tool that you know isn't broken but is for some reason giving weird readings. If you want an actual "fuck you, fuck your mother, fuck your dog and please fuck off and die" type of insult then I'm sure you can get one from someone else around here--just keep on defending the viewpoint of the jihadis instead of defending people like Maajid Nawaz, a liberal *Muslim* who does not believe there is anything wrong with drawing Muhammad. He posted a picture of Muhammad to show his solidarity with cartoonists and he received death threats from Muslim jihadis because of it. By sticking up for the right of jihadis to be offended, you are turning your back on genuine moderate reformers like him.
Recalibrate. I'm sure you're not a stupid or bad person... just, recalibrate.
Ummmm (Score:4, Insightful)
You really can't see any difference? Then you are just being obtuse. Yes if you tried to trespass in a religious building and be offensive, there'd be a response. In particular, they'd tell you to leave and call the police. However this was not in a Mosque, no Muslims were forced to attend. This was something people were doing on their own. However the crazies felt the need to respond.
I've heard about precisely zero cases of Jews going after pig BBQs in the US. Seems they are not very concerned about what you are doing on your own. If you don't respect their religion, oh well, so it goes.
Stephen Fry put it very well:
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what."
Re: (Score:3)
We had protests when "Life of Brian" was released, and the creators of that movie even received some death threats, but can you ima
Re:tip of the iceberg (Score:5, Insightful)
Then join with me in BBQ pig in a synagogue.
That is a stupid thing to say in one way, and an insightful thing to say in another. The radical Islamics consider the whole world their temple, and it doesn't matter where you do the things they don't want you to do, they reserve the right to murder you for it. So it's a stupid thing to say because this wasnt done in anyone's temple, and it's an insightful thing to say because it doesn't matter if you do it in their temple, they'll try to kill you for it anyway.
I'd make them have their international trollfest way out in the desert so bystanders don't get killed if someone takes the bait.
That's because you do not believe in the first amendment or freedom of speech, and so you can safely shut up now because nobody sane or interested in building a better society is interested in what you have to say.
Don't Have to Try Very Hard at All (Score:5, Informative)
Come on now, if you try very hard to get people angry why the shock when it happens?
I am in no way defending either the loud xenophobic fascist Wilders or anyone that wants to take a shot at him.
Drawing a cartoon of Muhammad that violates the extremists' sensibilities is trivial. AFAIK a stick figure labeled by name or "the prophet" will do. Sending these people into a murderous rage is unbelievably easy, and that's the point: it illustrates just how dangerous to (and incompatible with western society) they really are.
Try the seafood platter, etc. (Score:5, Funny)
1. Draw stickman. ...
2. Add beard and turban.
3.
4. Prophet!
Re: (Score:3)
Trolling on slashdot is fun. Trolling murderous fuck-whads so they can be eradicated is a favour to humanity.
Re: (Score:3)
No they don't. They are actually idolising Mohammed, which is exactly what they aren't supposed to do. I understand they don't see it that way, but they're unintelligent morons, so they can be forgiven that point.
Also, it's perfectly OK (according to the Old Testament) for non-Jews to worship idols. In fact, the fact that this occurred is a basic premise of much of the Old Testament, and never are the non-Jews admonished for it.
Re: (Score:3)
Germanic people are a tiny minority in Latvia - the tiny rest of the former upper class. Baltic people are descendent of the lowest class (farmers, fishers) and are most closely related to Slavs. Sad, but true.
Re:"xenophobic fascist" (Score:5, Insightful)
The others aren't just prepared to murder Wilders. They want to abolish democracy and replace it with sharia law, and kill the Untermenschen i.e. the unbelievers. I don't think fighting for freedom and democracy is as deplorable as fighting against it. Of course, there are many useful idiots who think they can live peacefully with islamists in the same country, believing that it we respect them, they'll respect us. Big mistake.
Re: (Score:3)
I also expect you to eat feces, but that doesn't make taking a dump wrong.
Re: (Score:3)
pope-francis-there-are-limits-to-freedom-of-expression [slashdot.org] 900 comments
So yes, we really want this kind of discussion on Slashdot.
Please bugger off? (Score:5, Insightful)
Political discussions among geeks are simply more interesting than among most other crowds. I believe it's because we are by nature more willing to delve into the gritty details. Like any subculture, there are biases and stupid memes but these flaws are at least occasionally point out and debated... it's not that we don't have an echo chamber here, it's that ours at least has a skylight.
Re: (Score:3)
You have been reading slashdot with blinders if you think this was ever such a place.
Re:They wanted to die in a suicide attack. They di (Score:4, Interesting)
I think this would work in a Texan accent, too.
Re:Oblig. answer (Score:5, Insightful)
Religious madness
And right there we have "tautology of the week"
Re:Oblig. answer (Score:5, Interesting)
Your equivocation is showing.
Nobody shows up to just start opening fire on everyone involved when some art exhibit depicting Jesus in some terrible way is shown (though they may show up to damage the artwork). Piss Christ is just one example. The Misadventures of the Romantic Cannibals is another. South Park has done plenty of cartoons depicting Jesus in a less than respectful manner as has Family Guy, yet no murders. Leon Ferrari lived to a ripe old age despite his many works of blasphemy that even drew the ire of Pope Francis (Mary in a blender comes to mind). Yet again, some of the artwork was vandalized, but the man himself was never harmed. In fact, the threats he received were for his earlier political work (which drove him to exile). Ants of a Crucifix, Phallus-faced Jesus, Chris Ofili’s “The Holy Virgin Mary"; the list just goes on and on. Protests, lawsuits, condemnations, funding being pulled; these are the reactions from Christians.
But draw cartoons of Mohammed? Guys with guns show up to murder people.
There's a fucking difference.
Re: (Score:3)
The alternative is to have them still walking around, murder in their hearts (and remember not every group of infidels who catches their eye is going to be well-protected
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Mohammed was a pedophile.
Yes indeed he was.
Today 'cause he's a pedophile.
We have such media buzz.
Mohammed liked boinking extra young.
This is what we've learned.
But try to talk about this sicko.
Causes jihadi brains to burn.
Re:A useful link for all of ya ... (Score:5, Insightful)
And before you mention it, yes several individuals who set up this event are (unlike the Charlie Hebdo staff) known asshats. That doesn't change the basic formula of what happened. Do I have to drag out the old "blaming the rape victim" meme here? Because I will if I have to. Or, if you prefer, we can just leap straight to Godwin and talk about just how well appeasement has worked with fascist jerks in the past.
Hint: mockery and blasphemy is a HUGE part of modern American culture. Disregarding the legal problems re: the first amendment, there is a massive amount of culture here that you are implying would need to be changed and censored. Do you really think that is fair, productive or realistic?
Re:A useful link for all of ya ... (Score:4, Informative)
If you want fewer extremists, integration is the best approach. By isolating them, belittling them, and then provoking them you're creating the problem you're pretending to solve. This is true for any group of people, of course, not just Muslims, as we've recently seen. Oppressed groups tend to fight against oppression.
How'd that work out with Hitler?
You do not understand human nature or human history, and are thus unqualified to tell anyone what the best way to peace is.
War is part of the human problem solving toolset. Right now, Islam is making war on Western civilization and Freedom of Thought. All I'm hearing from you is to "Submit" to that violence to get less of it ... which funnily enough is what "Islam" means - "Submission".
Re:lol (Score:4, Insightful)
T let's place it in Texas, where the kids are taught to shoot a gun before they can read.
You've never been to Texas, have you?
Re: (Score:3)
Re:welcome to Europe my dear Americans... (Score:4, Insightful)
and my Christian religion was united with the wisdom of my ancestors and created Europe (and America)
The Christian religion created America in the same way that cancer created chemotherapy. Now, what is the treatment for our capitalism?