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The Media Your Rights Online

Statues of Assange, Snowden and Manning Go Up In Berlin 161

Posted by timothy from the and-there-they-are dept.
HughPickens.com writes: RT Times reports that Alexanderplatz square in Berlin has become the stage for a provocative art piece which celebrates whistleblowers and encourages ordinary citizens to speak out. "They have lost their freedom for the truth, so they remind us how important it is to know the truth," says sculptor Davide Dormino. The life-sized statues of the three whistleblowers stand upon three chairs, as if speaking in an impromptu public meeting. Next to them is a fourth, empty chair. "The fourth chair is open to anyone here in Berlin who wants to get up and say anything they want," says the artist. Dormino, who came up with the idea together with the US journalist Charles Glass, specifically chose a classical bronze statue for his depiction – and not an installation or abstract piece – since statues are usually made of establishment figures. According to Domino while men who order others to their deaths get immortalized, those who resist are often forgotten, so "the statue pays homage to three who said no to war, to the lies that lead to war and to the intrusion into private life that helps to perpetuate war." Activists and members of Germany's Green party unveiled the life-size bronze statues on May Day.
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Statues of Assange, Snowden and Manning Go Up In Berlin More

Statues of Assange, Snowden and Manning Go Up In Berlin

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  • Ordinary folks (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 03, 2015 @09:15AM (#49605263)

    No matter what you agree with what Manning and/or Snowden and/or Assange have done, no one can deny that they are ordinary folks, just like you and me

    What makes them special is the system

    What I mean is, if the supposingly ' Democratic System ' that we have is truly democratic, that the system would never do despicable things it accuses THE OTHER SIDE (them 'Commies') of doing, such as Trampling on human rights, violating the Constitution, spying on its own citizens, and so on, neither Manning, Assange nor Snowden would have any reason to do what they have done

    It is The System which makes them what they are --- Because The System has become so goddamn rotten that the three ordinary folks had no choice but to tell the truth

    I have tried to imagine what I would do, given the same circumstance ... and the only honest thing I can say is, I simply do not have the guts to do what they did ... yes, I have yet to grow my own pair

    • Re:Ordinary folks (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Immerman ( 2627577 ) on Sunday May 03, 2015 @10:24AM (#49605563)

      I have to disagree. Not with them being ordinary folks - that's true enough, and a good reminder that ALL of us have the potential to be heroes, if we only have the courage to do what's right, rather than what's convenient.

      But that a democratic system would never do despicable things that it accuses the other side of? Many a mob would disagree, and a mob is probably the most democratic system that has ever existed. In fact even a very many individuals are prone to accusing others of their own failings - why would you assume we would become more virtuous en mass?

      The problem is not "The System", though it has admittedly become twisted enough by institutionalized corruption that it would be difficult to fix. The problem is not even that pretty much since its inception it has been populated by the sort of people who want power - such is true of most any system that grants it.

      The problem is that we, the populace, trusted "the system" to protect us from the inevitable corruption of the very people who run it. We abdicated our democratic responsibility to keep our government to heel. We embraced party politics, despite be warned of their dangers by the very people who created "the system". We vote for the people who run the flashiest ads appealing to our hopes, fears, and biases, rather than spending the time and energy to actually investigate the candidate's track records and put our support behind the ones who actually best represent our interests. There is no system that can protect us from the abuse of power so long as we continue to freely hand that power to those who wish to abuse it, and reward that abuse with reelection rather than retribution.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Dog-Cow ( 21281 )

        If you think a mob is democratic, you know little of mob psychology.

        • Or do I know enough of mob psychology to draw some unflattering parallels with how democracy works in practice?

  • An empty chair? (Score:5, Funny)

    by russotto ( 537200 ) on Sunday May 03, 2015 @09:19AM (#49605271) Journal

    Dammit, once again the Europeans give Obama undeserved recognition!

  • Transphobic assholes (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Manning's name isn't "Bradley Chelsea Manning", it's Chelsea Manning. And depicting her as a male is just lack of respect. She doesn't need that kind of support, and much less from Putin TV.

    • What this says is that the originators of the idea (sculptor Davide Dormino and journalist Charles Glass) are more interested in the agenda (and self-promotion) than in the people behind the story. You don't honor someone by actively disrespecting who they are, insulting them and putting the lie to the greater truth. Hopefully, since the stated purpose is to encourage ordinary citizens to speak out, hopefully others will also call out these two (and everyone who backs this misrepresentation of Ms. Manning).

      • What this says is that the originators of the idea (sculptor Davide Dormino and journalist Charles Glass) are more interested in the agenda (and self-promotion) than in the people behind the story. You don't honor someone by actively disrespecting who they are, insulting them and putting the lie to the greater truth. Hopefully, since the stated purpose is to encourage ordinary citizens to speak out, hopefully others will also call out these two (and everyone who backs this misrepresentation of Ms. Manning).

        And before anyone starts with the "we don't have the data to make a representation of her as a woman" argument, if you can't do it right, then maybe you shouldn't be doing it at all. Ditto for the "artistic integrity" argument - artistic integrity my arse!

        Portraying her as she last appeared in public and as she looked when she did the leaks is now somehow insulting?

        • Yes it is; she was trans long before she was publicly identified as trans, and you can be sure that she did not maintain a male appearance 100% of the time. Once someone transitions, they want to move on to what is their real life.

          Once Bruce Jenner is done transitioning, do you think it would not be considered both insulting and exploitative to make a statue of how he used to look?

          • Once Bruce Jenner is done transitioning, do you think it would not be considered both insulting and exploitative to make a statue of how he used to look?

            If the statue was for something he did before the change, it would be odd if it didn't.

            You don't go around aging statues either just because the people they portrait has aged and changed.

      • And statues of people who are dead now should be changed to just skeletons, or maybe piles of dust.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I'm transgender (also MtF), and while I appreciate your inclusion, I also somewhat disagree with it in this very specific case. Why, you may ask? Because it's a monument to Bradley Manning, and not Chelsea Manning. The statue should reflect the person that it symbolizes at the moment of their action(s) for which the statue is being erected. The way I see it, it's not much different from statues showing other inspirational figures in their youth. As such, I do not think it is being disrespectful in this case

  • "Activists and members of Germany's Green party unveiled the life-size bronze statues on May Day."

    ...depicting Manning as a male while s(he) asked to be considered as a female, standing next to the fugitive suspect for the rape of a female mister Assange, between a transexual and mister Snowden who is protected by a goverment declaring that homosexuals are not welcomed...

    Even i, a right-wing Greek, couldn't plan it better! Don't you just love our left-wing Europeans?

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Yes, that "rape", in a country that considers rape to be a way overly broad definition compared to any sane country in the world.

      Yes, that "rape" whose "victim" suddenly shut up and vanished when asked for further questioning.

      Fuck off. He never raped anyone. It is a blatant attack of his character because they know rape is a good tool to destroy a persons character there. (next to pedophile in a bunch of countries like the UK and USA)

      • Yes, that "rape", in a country that considers rape to be a way overly broad definition compared to any sane country in the world.

        Yes, that "rape" whose "victim" suddenly shut up and vanished when asked for further questioning.

        Fuck off. He never raped anyone. It is a blatant attack of his character because they know rape is a good tool to destroy a persons character there. (next to pedophile in a bunch of countries like the UK and USA)

        You write to me "Fuck off. He never raped anyone." (by the way, should i understand that you was his judge...), but i just wrote "fugitive suspect for the rape of a female mister Assange", and the rest of your comment is a proof that you missing the point of my comment... since Germany's Green party (the one honoring him with the statue) STRONGLY SUPPORTS the laws about rape in Sweden (from where Assange is... fugitive suspect for the rape of a female)!

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Livius ( 318358 )

      You have so completely missed the point of why these people are heroes.

      • You have so completely missed the point of why these people are heroes.

        You have so completely missed my point of why left-wing European people are hypocrites

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by Anonymous Coward

          Everyone is a hypocrite at some point. One of the good things about our (EU) politics is that there are way way more people who float between left/right depending on context and current issues. Not as many extremists shouting left or right like idiots.

          This is our strength, not a weakness. Only the really dumb people like you do not see this. You need to pick a colour/side and rant about that, you do not have the intelligence to decide on a per-issue basis.

          You should move to the US, would fit in well over th

    • depicting Manning as a male

      ....as Manning was when the cables were handed over to Wikileaks.

      standing next to the political fugitive mister Assange

      FTFY. If it had anything at all to do with rape, the Swedish government would have taken Assange up on his offer to return to the country if they promised not to hand him over to the U.S. they way they did to Mohammed al-Zari. [hrw.org] They never have.

      Even i, a right-wing Greek, couldn't plan it better!

      Are you a recent national socialist, or does it run in your family? [theguardian.com]

      • If it had anything at all to do with rape, the Swedish government would have taken Assange up on his offer to return to the country if they promised

        Assange had no legal right to bargain with the Swedish authorities; the Swedish legal system precludes the prosecutors from striking the kind of deals Assange proposed. Assange obviously knew that - his whole act was for dramatic effect, not for any tangible benefit.

        Long story short, Assange duped you.

      • depicting Manning as a male

        ....as Manning was when the cables were handed over to Wikileaks.

        That is a good explanation/excuse for why our left-wing Europeans depict Manning as a male while s(he) asked to be considered as a female - but i wonder if you suggest that the "new" transexual Manning is less of the man who the left-wing Europeans honor now (!) and if that "new" transexual Manning him/her-self believes that s(he) should not be associated with the acts of the "Manning the man"?

        standing next to the political fugitive mister Assange

        FTFY. If it had anything at all to do with rape, the Swedish government would have taken Assange up on his offer to return to the country if they promised not to hand him over to the U.S. they way they did to Mohammed al-Zari. [hrw.org] They never have.

        I will insist with my own original version ("fugitive suspect for the rape of a female mister Assange"), and i woul

      • The warrant for Assange's arrest was properly sent through Interpol, and upheld by the English courts. I haven't noticed anybody calling for Assange to be brought over here except for some idiot politicians, and if the US wanted to get him I'd think it would be easier to do so from the UK. Standard legal procedure is that Sweden can't send him to some other country without UK permission, so he'd be in a position where it would take UK and Swedish agreement to be sent to the US, not just UK.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Rujiel ( 1632063 )

      "Even i, a right-wing Greek,"

      Oh, sure you are. Did you have to check your onscreen prompt to remind you which country your current sockpuppet is supposed to be from?

      • "Even i, a right-wing Greek,"

        Oh, sure you are. Did you have to check your onscreen prompt to remind you which country your current sockpuppet is supposed to be from?

        I am a real Greek - and you are one more real "malakas"! (in Latin characters because we are in Slashdot -a site for "nerd"...-, where still can't present UTF Greek)

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Rei ( 128717 )

          Yeah, it bites all of us (I can't write a thorn here). They only care about Americans so after countless redesigns there's still no proper unicode support.

          • Yeah, it bites all of us (I can't write a thorn here). They only care about Americans so after countless redesigns there's still no proper unicode support.

            I understand that it's not that easy to add proper unicode support but i know that it's not that hard... especially since this is a supposedly a site for "nerds"...

            By the way, (and thanks to wikipedia!) your "thorn" is our (indispensable) Greek "theta" (also not supported).

  • Canadian Memorial to Vietnam opponents (Score:5, Interesting)

    by TarPitt ( 217247 ) on Sunday May 03, 2015 @10:07AM (#49605469)

    War Resisters Remain in Canada with No Regrets [go.com]

    Many opponents of the Vietnam war fled to Canada rather than face conscription, "An estimated 125,000 Americans fled to Canada in the 1960s and '70s to avoid the Vietnam War military draft, according to the American Veterans of Foreign Wars" according to the article

    The town of Nelson planned to build a memorial to these folks, who once they settled into Canada became exemplary citizens and active participants in their communities.

    The flood of hate mail from the USA caused them to reconsider.

    • Good job changing the subject. As for the draft-dodgers, Canada can keep them. The whole world would have been better off if Bill Clinton and his toxic wife had gone there and stayed.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Obedience is not a virtue.

        If they ran away from a clear and present need to defend their country, I might agree with you. But they ran away from a political decision to go kill foreigners in a foreign land. I will not look down on them for that.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by TarPitt ( 217247 )

        No, resistance to the Middle Eastern invasion, the growth of the national security state and ubiquitous surveillance stems directly from that same national security state that gave us the Vietnam War. NSA surveillance is made necessary by the national security state.

        Providing historical context for the current problem is not "changing the subject", it explains the current resistance.

        What Daniel Ellsberg did for the Vietnam War is echoed in what Assange and the others have done.

  • Arrange for a permanent installation (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    in front of the U.S embassy.

  • This is our time... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Sunday May 03, 2015 @12:37PM (#49606241)

    Statues erected to promote freedom of speech and tell people they should not be afraid to say when there is something going wrong are considered "provocative".

  • Germany should be more concerned about its own domestic spying programs, the massive data collection by the German government, and the widespread restrictions on free speech and free exercise of religion in Germany.

    While you might say that perhaps putting up statues to US whistleblowers might encourage Germans to do the same thing, in reality, this is just an outgrowth from a widespread political effort in German (and similarly other European countries) to distract people from domestic problems by pretendin

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Keep in mind that many Europeans consider themselves more free than US citizens. Laws against certain very specific things like holocaust denial in Germany are seen as necessary and for protecting freedom. It seems like Americans believe that as long as you have the right to freedom you will always be free, but in Europe we recognise that sometimes society has to say "no".

      For example, religious icons are banned in French schools. In American schools children have to recite a pledge to l of allegiance to the

      • For example, religious icons are banned in French schools.

        Yes, and German schools have government-sponsored religious instruction, and the German government pays the salaries of protestant ministers and Catholic priests, while Britain still gives special status to its state church and has had a deadly religious conflict with Ireland. The French, on the other hand, throughout history occasionally become violently anti-religious. What's your point?

        but in Europe we recognise that sometimes society has to say "

  • Dear Germany: you get no points for putting up statues to controversial dissidents from other peoples' countries. You're clearly trying to make a bold political statement here, but to do that you need to take a stand against members of your own nation. Put up a statue to the folks who prosecuted the Christian Democratic Union's campaign donations scandal in 1999, or Kathrin Oertel, the leader of an anti-islamic nationalist group who recently resigned and recanted, and *then* you can pat yourselves on the

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jopsen ( 885607 )

      Put up a statue to the folks who prosecuted the Christian Democratic Union's campaign donations scandal in 1999, or Kathrin Oertel, the leader of an anti-islamic nationalist group who recently resigned and recanted, and *then* you can pat yourselves on the back.

      Have these people fled their country due to fear of unfair prosecution? Have they been prosecuted?

      These cases are good example of people doing the right thing and being recognized for it... As oppose to facing unfair being persecuted.

      Also don't compare a donation scandal or the onset of common sense in a racialist to the persistent violation of privacy (a human right) by the US. Note that the US haven't recognized wrong doing, despite violating human rights on a global scale (crossing borders, etc).

      I'

      • You're missing the point. I'm not trying to defend what the US has done here, nor am I trying to equate German political scandals with American ones -- and the fact that I can't find an equivalent German scandal says a lot of good things about Germany. But celebrating the failures of somebody else's country is pretty close to what the Germans call schaedenfreude, and what Americans call "a dick move". Let Americans put up their own Snowden statues [animalnewyork.com].

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by jopsen ( 885607 )

          But celebrating the failures of somebody else's country is pretty close to what the Germans call schaedenfreude, and what Americans call "a dick move".

          So far the Americans haven't recognized their "failure", nobody have been persecuted for these transgressions, the only one anybody is talking about persecuting is Snowden.
          So this is clearly a political provocation, aiming to signal that many Germans takes the transgressions committed by the US very serious, at lot more serious the than most Americans. It's not "a dick move" when the Americans aren't acknowledging their faults, and correcting their wrongs.

          Note, I for one can't blame the Germans for being

  • I have no issue with Assange being on this. His goal was ALWAYS about getting knowledge out there. Now, he may be a rapists, but that is a different issue.
    However, I take issues with both Manning and Snowden.
    Manning's goal was NOT to release information because he opposed what was going on. His reason was because he was mad at the US because he was gay and was about to be booted out. With that said, the information that he release was about some of our illegal doings. As such, he should not be punished f
  • FTA: Alexanderplatz square

    'Platz' means square. It's just Alexanderplatz.

  • So, Germans defend the right of people to tell the world when things go wrong in other countries.
    And yeah, building statues is clearly the right thing to do, especially after Snowden clearly said that he didn't want the world to focus on his person but rather on what he revealed. How about actually helping these people instead? They aren't dead yet you know.
    For me it is an empty political move.

    • Re:Blow the whistle in other countries (Score:5, Informative)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Sunday May 03, 2015 @07:56PM (#49608261) Homepage Journal

      I guess you don't keep up with current events, but actually the people in Germany doing this have also been trying to get asylum for Snowden. It's not like they woke up one day and decided the best thing they could do is a statue, it's part of an ongoing effort to bring attention to the cause and put pressure on the government.

      Note to submitters: People don't RTFA, so you can't expect them to be knowledgeable about our Google the subject either. It's worth including useful info like this in the (short) summary because otherwise half the comments will be like this.

      • And while we try to get him asylum, we also say that it would be the worst idea because we, with out current government, would not be able to guarantee safety.

        I would also dare most to compare the media coverage between how Germans and the US treat the revelations on spying or the subject of whistle blowers or asylum for Snowden.

        If only Snowden had outed a CIA operative ... he could be VP now.

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