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Communications Crime Transportation

Traffic App Waze To Alert L.A. Drivers of Kidnappings and Hit-and-Runs 86

Posted by timothy from the target-audience-is-rubberneckers dept.
An anonymous reader writes: Traffic-alert app Waze has announced a partnership with Los Angeles to share information on hit-and-runs and kidnappings taking place across the city, alongside traffic data and road closure updates. The deal forms part of a data-sharing agreement between L.A. authorities and the Google-owned tech startup detailed yesterday by the city's mayor Eric Garcetti. He assured that the data provided to the city by Waze would be "aggregated" and completely anonymous. According to the councillor the collaboration was mutually confirmed on Monday following a "very good meeting" between Waze and LAPD chief officer Charlie Beck. This move signals a considerable turn of events after Beck argued at the end of last year that the traffic alert app posed a danger to police due to its ability to track their location. The complaint followed the shooting of two police officers in New York after the shooter used the app to track his targets.
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Traffic App Waze To Alert L.A. Drivers of Kidnappings and Hit-and-Runs More

Traffic App Waze To Alert L.A. Drivers of Kidnappings and Hit-and-Runs

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  • Aggregated intelligence (Score:4, Insightful)

    by __aabppq7737 ( 3995233 ) on Thursday April 23, 2015 @09:48AM (#49536887)

    He assured that the data provided to the city by Waze would be "aggregated" and completely anonymous

    It'd be way too easy to combine this "aggregated" intelligence with what "smart" traffic sensors already know to de-anonymize pretty much every piece of data.

    • Re:Aggregated intelligence (Score:5, Informative)

      by geekmux ( 1040042 ) on Thursday April 23, 2015 @10:10AM (#49537135)

      He assured that the data provided to the city by Waze would be "aggregated" and completely anonymous

      It'd be way too easy to combine this "aggregated" intelligence with what "smart" traffic sensors already know to de-anonymize pretty much every piece of data.

      Sorry, but with ALL of the ties to an individual (billing, address, Google, Apple, etc.) that your personal cell phone has (also known as the exclusive device Waze runs on), you're not going to convince me for one second that any data streaming from my cell phone is "anonymous".

      No fucking way.

      If more people realized this, we would call out these "aggregated" and "metadata" justifications for what they are; complete and total bullshit.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by adolf ( 21054 )

        Indeed, but this isn't anything new.

        Waze already knows where you are whenever you're using it. It's a critical part of the functionality that allows it to work.

        Furthermore, there's an excellent chance that Google also [google.com] knows where you are, whether you think they do or not.

        Personally, I'm OK with this at this time. Waze has saved me hours of waiting in traffic on the freeway, and Google's Location History helps me generate accurate invoices without wasting time on note-taking.

        Your opinion may (and perhaps s

        • This is the actual truth. You are 100% correct.

          It is actually proven that having real time traffic data to make traffic decisions is to the benefit of everyone driving. On the flip side, I don't really like how that equation works out for your personal privacy.

        • Indeed, but this isn't anything new.

          Waze already knows where you are whenever you're using it. It's a critical part of the functionality that allows it to work.

          Furthermore, there's an excellent chance that Google also [google.com] knows where you are, whether you think they do or not.

          Personally, I'm OK with this at this time. Waze has saved me hours of waiting in traffic on the freeway, and Google's Location History helps me generate accurate invoices without wasting time on note-taking.

          Your opinion may (and perhaps should) vary.

          Curious if you were aware of how your GPS statistics might be affecting your automobile insurance rates year after year.

          Oh, you have factual proof they are not manipulated by aggregating data from various sources?

          Curious if you were aware of how your medical insurance rates might be affected based on where you travel. Or what food you buy.

          Oh, you have factual proof they are not manipulated by aggregating data from various sources?

          I could go on here, but hopefully you see my point. The reality is you have

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dave562 ( 969951 )

        I agree with you that you are not anonymous to Google. That is easy enough to deal with. Stop using their services.

        The bigger question is whether or not Google anonymizes your data before sharing it. Just because the data is all there does not mean that it is being shared.

        While Google might provide data along the lines of, "Within the last 30 minutes, 5000 people have averaged 35mph over this 0.1 mile stretch of road" ... They are not going to provide a detailed list of who those 5000 people are, the las

    • Soo....are kidnappings such a common occurrence in L.A. that they need an app for this???

      :O

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by sinij ( 911942 )
        Considering amount of tracking it does, I think this is an app to facilitate kidnappings.

        • It's like "women parking spaces" in parking garages. All they really did around here was making it easier for the pervs to know where to find women, especially those that are easy to frighten.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dave562 ( 969951 )

        Yes. We usually see Amber Alerts at least once a month. They are usually 'child abductions'. The authorities share the year, make and model of the vehicle plus the license plate number.

        • Yes. We usually see Amber Alerts at least once a month. They are usually 'child abductions'. The authorities share the year, make and model of the vehicle plus the license plate number.

          Interesting.

          I'd heard of the amber alert thing, but didn't quite know what it was in practice. I thought it was something just broadcast on the news on TV at night in CA.

          Do any other states have this thing?

          Are child abductions a big problem in CA or is the fear and publicity of them bigger out there than in the rest of th

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by dave562 ( 969951 )

            We see them on electronic billboards over the freeways. I received one on my phone once upon a time, but it came with the option to unsubscribe from future alerts and I did that.

            I am not sure how big of a problem child abductions really are. My sense is that nine times out of ten they are just custody disputes. Mom / Dad gets upset with their spouse and takes the kid out to run errands / go to the bar. Spouse freaks out and calls the cops. Cops over react and issue Amber Alert.

  • Headline: "Traffic App Waze To Alert L.A. Drivers of Kidnappings and Hit-and-Runs"

    Someone seems to have forgotten that using a cell phone while driving is illegal.

    • Re:But ... (Score:4, Informative)

      by MobileTatsu-NJG ( 946591 ) on Thursday April 23, 2015 @09:52AM (#49536931)

      Someone seems to have forgotten you can legally use your cell phone as a GPS.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Someone seems to have forgotten you can legally use your cell phone as a GPS.

        And Waze has started to quickly grow to be exactly what it is, an app that distracts the shit out of a driver instead of just being a simple GPS.

        But it's cute you want to try and label it this way. I'll remember that when I'm reading about the next fatality due to distracted Waze surfing.

        • I use Waze every time I drive.

          The only alerts that come up are related to hazards you are approaching - which helps driving way mor than it hurts. Often I've been notified if dangerously large potholes, or other problems on the road - I was able to slow down a bit and create a larger gap between myself and other cars so I had room to maneuver.

          There are other ads that come up - but ONLY when you are stopped at a light, and vanish when you start moving. Those are in no way a hazard.

          A kidnapping alert is a t

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by adolf ( 21054 )

          Waze has never been a simple GPS, which is why I use it every time I drive instead of my completely adequate Garmin ("simple GPS") that I haven't used in years.

      • Here it's an offense even to even have the phone in your hand while driving - and they've just upped it to 4 demerit points. So no, unless the phone is in some sort of a mount, you can't use it as a GPS while driving. Pull over to the side of the road and take the time to figure out where you are so you don't cause an accident.

        • and they've just upped it to 4 demerit points

          They should just fine you 50 quatloos and be done with it.

        • Here it's an offense even to even have the phone in your hand while driving - and they've just upped it to 4 demerit points. So no, unless the phone is in some sort of a mount, you can't use it as a GPS while driving.

          I'm not sure why you're saying 'no' here. "In a mount" is exactly how people use their phones for GPS. In other words... yes you bloody well can use your phone this way and it works really well. In fact, California recently made it legal to put a suction cup on your windshield for exactly this reason.

          Pull over to the side of the road and take the time to figure out where you are so you don't cause an accident.

          Could you please go into detail about how you've taken the radio and environmental controls out of your car so you can teach us by example?

          • Radio and AC can be worked entirely by feel. You can adjust them without turning on the interior lights - you don't have to take your eyes off the road. Smartphones don't work that way. And the only people I've seen using a mounted GPS were using a tablet, not a phone. And they only used it to figure out their route - not to get instructions in real time.

            • Radio and AC can be worked entirely by feel. You can adjust them without turning on the interior lights - you don't have to take your eyes off the road. Smartphones don't work that way.

              Umm.... Yes, they do. Both Android and iPhone. I'd even wager that modern Windows and Blackberry phones do, too.

              And the only people I've seen using a mounted GPS were using a tablet, not a phone. And they only used it to figure out their route - not to get instructions in real time.

              Welp, that explains why you're so ill-informed on how smartphone-based GPS apps work.

              • I've tried to use the assistive tech on Android to use my phone by feel - even the learning mode is crap - you can't get out of it, even using your eyes. Have you?

                • No. I use Siri on my iPhone and in GPS mode it's completely eyes-free. Everything I've heard says that Android is significantly better in this department.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Not quite true. Using a cell phone needs to be "hands free".

      • True, but that's been proven to be just as distracting. And worse, most people with bluetooth don't even use it - "Too much of a hassle" - "I'll only be a few seconds (which is several hundred feet)" - "Haven't got caught yet" - "I'll duck my head low so that the cops can't see I'm using it while I'm driving"
  • How can a system at the same time aggregate and make data anonymous while purposefully alert about hit-and-runs and kidnappings?

    • The amber alert notices have license plates and car descriptions. is that what they mean by kidnapping alert? what would be the use of anonymized criminal activity alerts? "keep an eye out for a vehicle in the vicinity of downtown LA!".

      • Kidnappers are usually anonymous. That's sort of the key part of any crime, really. Get that wrong and you haven't got much of a career ahead of you.

        • Kidnappers are usually anonymous. That's sort of the key part of any crime, really. Get that wrong and you haven't got much of a career ahead of you.

          that only matters if you let the people go after the ransom is paid...

          alternatively, some people just kidnap themselves, especially if they owe money all over town.

        • Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • >> How can a system at the same time aggregate and make data anonymous

      Given existing PC-driven redaction of police reports, I'd expect it to read something like this:

      (race redacted) (gender redacted) (age redacted) adult or child wearing (clothing redacted) and (method of transportation redacted), possibly named (name redacted) wanted as a person of interest in the alleged (incident redacted) that was reported on (date/time redacted) at (place redacted). If you have any information about this alleged

  • This app, giving people real time updates on their smart phones, is probably not the best thing we could have for public safety. More than a few knuckleheads would likely think they were doing the right thing by putting it on their phone, until they try to read it while driving and end up causing an accident by way of their distracted driving.

    • This app, giving people real time updates on their smart phones, is probably not the best thing we could have for public safety. More than a few knuckleheads would likely think they were doing the right thing by putting it on their phone, until they try to read it while driving and end up causing an accident by way of their distracted driving.

      Good thing smart phones have speakers. Waze already make use of audio for turn alerts, they can do they same for Amber alerts.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by C0R1D4N ( 970153 )
      The numbers of fatal accidents has been decreasing the past thirty years. Cell phones have had no noticeable statistical effect.

      • The numbers of fatal accidents has been decreasing the past thirty years

        I understand that to have more to do with cars being safer than anything else. Anti lock brakes and air bags are now standard in the overwhelming majority of cars on American roads today, amongst other things.

        Cell phones have had no noticeable statistical effect

        If we're talking over the same period of time (30 years as you said earlier) it is impossible for them not to. There were quite nearly zero cell phones in 1985. We now regularly have serious - and sometimes fatal - accidents caused by idiots who believe they can safely read and write text messages on their phones while driving. It appears you are looking at the general downward trend of fatal accidents per capita, and then saying that nothing could possibly have a negative impact on that. That simply doesn't work.

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by C0R1D4N ( 970153 )
          You are assuming that those same people would not be distracted otherwise if they did not have their phone.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Nice cherry picking. You don't have to have a fatal accident for cell phone usage to be dangerous.

        And I can point out the people on the road who are using their cell phone and only paying half-attention to the road. All you have to do is look for behavior that used to be reserved exclusively for confused senior citizen drivers, and you've got your average cell phone talker right there. These days, its actually more rare for me to see a bluehair in that car, rather than some asian female who looks both ab

  • Escape from LA (Score:5, Interesting)

    by xxxJonBoyxxx ( 565205 ) on Thursday April 23, 2015 @10:33AM (#49537387)

    >> kidnappings

    If you live in a city where "kidnappings" is just considered another statistics...it might be time to move.

  • i Love L.A. (Score:3)

    by turkeydance ( 1266624 ) on Thursday April 23, 2015 @10:33AM (#49537389)
    this will be in constant alert status. sorta like a car alarm that no one pays attention to.

  • Amber Alert anyone? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Is this going to become an extension of the Amber alert system, which I believe research has shown is rarely of use in actual kidnappings and is used mostly in non-violent child custody arguments & runaways? I don't know if they've had a single case where the system has been proven to have saved a child's life.

  • Fix the city. Make the app unnecessary.

  • Just like the ability for phones to recieve network-wide notifications, when this capability was used in California, many people turned it off, because the notification was broadcast far too wide -- across all of California for something taking place in San Diego.

    I predict the same for this. The capability will be misused and then disabled by the users of the app.

  • If the data is as good as it is for accidents, it will be all but worthless... We use Waze in Los Angeles and it will frequently just show "accident" with no indication of exactly where it is, what side of the freeway, and what kind of accident... And more often than not, when you actually get in the area, the data is stale and the accident is long gone but still showing...

  • Most kidnappings are parental custody disputes, and the California system is biased, the legal backwash of the "deadbeat dad" movement.

  • Using Waze to navigate in LA is terribly unsafe - I live here, I've used it and what typically happens is it diverts you on to side streets, and then from those side streets has you try to make a left hand turn onto a major, busy 8-lane boulevard where there is no traffic signal to help you. In LA, that's legal, but most of us think its dangerous, if not outright suicidal. Worse, instead of left turns, sometimes it tells you to proceed on a side street across such a wide, busy boulevard, again where there

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by dave562 ( 969951 )

      They also seem to have implemented what I am calling the "Dick Move" algorithm. The dick move is using the exit lane to pass people.

      For example, I was traveling north on the 405 to Santa Monica. When I got to LAX, they told me to take Century Boulevard off ramp.... and then merge back onto the 405. It was a great move and let me bypass about a mile of bumper to bumper traffic. At the same time, I think most people agree that doing that is a dick move.

      • Interesting to know that, I've never seen it do that - in fact I'm surprised that it is aware of the difference in traffic congestion between two parallel lanes on the same freeway - usually people's cell phones can't determine their location with such precision as to differentiate between different lanes on the same road.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by dave562 ( 969951 )

          It is a bit of an interesting situation because the Century Boulevard exit shares the transition lanes from the 105 onto the 405. So from the Waze POV it probably saw it as the "105 Freeway" and noticed that it was less congested than the 405. Having said that, the instructions were "Take Century Boulevard exit" and not "Merge onto 105 transition".

          This should link to the area. The exit is basically at the 105 and I merged back onto the 405 near W Arbor Vitae St

          https://www.google.com/maps/@3... [google.com]

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by dfm3 ( 830843 )
            I have some experience editing the Waze map, but I don't have edit rights in LA. Waze has algorithms that are *supposed* to prevent routes like that from being generated (that is, you aren't supposed to be routed onto a ramp then back onto the same freeway you exited from) but sometimes in more complicated situations it doesn't always work right. We've also recently been seeing issues with drivers being directed to turn right at a traffic light and make a u-turn rather than wait for a left turn arrow, but t

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Ormy ( 1430821 )

        The dick move is using the exit lane to pass people.

        Although the slip roads (on ramps and off ramps for you yanks) are typically much shorter in the UK, people do this all the time, in London especially, and it is indeed a dick move. If one person does it they save a bit of time and it doesn't affect anyone else, but if more people do it they save less time and it slows everyone else down. I and a lot of other drivers just stubbornly refuse to let them merge back in, but there's always going to be someone idiot who will let you in.

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