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United States Government The Internet Your Rights Online

FCC Posts Its 400-Page Net Neutrality Order 347

jriding sends word that the FCC has released new rules outlining its recently officialized role as internet regulator. Simply titled "Open Internet FCC-15-24A1," the order runs 400 pages. The actual text of the new rules is only 305 words long. [FCC head Tom] Wheeler said reclassifying broadband as an utility gives the FCC its best shot at withstanding legal challenges. The courts have twice tossed out earlier rules aimed at protecting Internet openness. The FCC chairman has said repeatedly the agency does not intend to set rates or add new taxes to broadband bills. More than 100 pages of the 400-page document released Thursday explain that forbearance. AT&T had hinted it would file a lawsuit once the new rules become public. The company's chief lobbyist, Jim Cicconi, didn't indicate Thursday when or even if AT&T would sue — only that the battle is far from over. "Unfortunately, the order released today begins a period of uncertainty that will damage broadband investment in the United States," Cicconi said. "Ultimately, though, we are confident the issue will be resolved by bipartisan action by Congress or a future FCC, or by the courts."
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FCC Posts Its 400-Page Net Neutrality Order

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 12, 2015 @01:53PM (#49243623)

    ....by whether or not AT&T sues.

    • What moron put the table of contents in paragraphs? How do I know what page a paragraph is on?
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 12, 2015 @01:54PM (#49243627)

    "Ultimately, though, we are confident the issue will be resolved by bipartisan action by Congress or a future FCC, or by the courts."

    AKA, We will get our way once we buy off enough people.

  • by oh_my_080980980 ( 773867 ) on Thursday March 12, 2015 @01:55PM (#49243637)
    Not for Google. I guess AT&T needs a new CEO who's not afraid to run a business.
  • by __aaclcg7560 ( 824291 ) on Thursday March 12, 2015 @01:56PM (#49243649)

    "Ultimately, though, we are confident the issue will be resolved by bipartisan action by Congress or a future FCC, or by the courts."

    What is he smoking and where can I get some?

  • Reason for delay? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by LoverOfJoy ( 820058 )

    Is there a reason this was not released sooner? It seems like a lot of drama could have been reduced if this was released to the public much earlier.

  • by Crashmarik ( 635988 ) on Thursday March 12, 2015 @02:00PM (#49243689)

    ATT hasn't invested in decades and does as little as it can get away with to maintain its existing infrastructure.

    As it stands they don't even replace failing equipment, just shift it around so the problems hit different customers.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      I'm no fan of AT&T, and they haven't been doing the investments they should have over the years, but your statement isn't entirely true.

      AT&T has been laying fiber for their U-Verse rollout. They dug up a whole bunch of land in town here a few years ago, and when they were done, the salesman came by to ask if we wanted to sign up for the newly available U-Verse.

      Given that they have U-Verse in a lot of places, I believe they've actually been investing quite a bit.

      • I don't know the location you are speaking of.

        I do know that in KC ATT didn't even plan to lay fiber until Google moved in

        http://www.businessinsider.com... [businessinsider.com]

        Whats more the only places they are targeting are those that Google is wiring, and they only match the price if you agree to be spied on by them.

        • Grand Rapids, Michigan got a bunch of Uverse in about five years ago with no Google stuff going on. Of course I moved out of range recently... bleh.
      • Oh also, I have watched their techs at work on repairing their "Advanced" products going back to ISDN. Nothing like watching a tech rotate a failing interface card through the rack.

      • Given that they have U-Verse in a lot of places, I believe they've actually been investing quite a bit.

        They have been investing a lot, because laying fiber is very expensive.
        But U-Verse is not in a lot of places.

        If you look at where fiber has been brought to market (not just by AT&T), it's almost exclusively in cherry picked areas that can afford high prices.

      • Yes and when they originally ran the Uverse, it was awesomely fast and awesomely cheap. A year later it was the same speeds and the same crappy prices as TWC was offering...

      • by NormalVisual ( 565491 ) on Thursday March 12, 2015 @04:20PM (#49244957)
        AT&T has been laying fiber for their U-Verse rollout. They dug up a whole bunch of land in town here a few years ago, and when they were done, the salesman came by to ask if we wanted to sign up for the newly available U-Verse.

        The AT&T sales guy came around a couple of weeks ago to tout the new fiber rollout in my area. Here's how it went:

        AT&T guy: "Did you know that AT&T is laying fiber in your area?"
        Me: "No, that's great. How fast is the fastest speed you'll be offering when it's in?"
        AT&T: "Let me look...[rifles through papers]...says here it will be 18 Mbps."
        Me: "That's already available here now over your copper lines."
        AT&T: "Really? What do you have now?"
        Me: "I've got a 12 Mbps U-verse business account with five static IPs. The 18 Mbps service is already too expensive for such a small bump, and it doesn't sound like the fiber offering is otherwise going to make any difference at all for me. The *only* reason I'm with AT&T is that Comcast has a ridiculous installation fee for business accounts."

        The guy hemmed and hawed a little bit more, and eventually left looking rather dejected. Seriously, only 18 Mbps over fiber?
    • Not entirely true.

      There is quite a bit of new gear rolling out to compete with Google, but infrastructure isn't really a standalone expense. I can drop epic pipe sized Sonet multiplexers all over the place, but you also have to house them, power them, protect them and feed them fiber. Then you get to upgrade the other parts of the network to handle the tidal wave of data that will be flowing across those systems. This all costs equally epic amounts of $$$$ to do so. Nor does it happen overnight on a tel
      • Last mile problem can be fixed with a BOND measure and building out Municipal Fiber, back hauled to a COLO were providers can fight for customers. IF we quit trying to fix the wrong problem it is much easier to fix.

  • by Pope Hagbard ( 3897945 ) on Thursday March 12, 2015 @02:03PM (#49243721) Journal

    So much for the ZOMG 300-ODD PAGES fucktards. Bet they don't come back and admit they were wrong either.

  • The Rules (Score:5, Informative)

    by Jason Levine ( 196982 ) on Thursday March 12, 2015 @02:07PM (#49243757) Homepage

    In case the 500 pages scare off anyone, he's the TDLR version:

    1) No Blocking - An ISP can't block legal content for any reason. So Comcast can't decide that you can't get to Disney's website anymore because they are having a cable TV dispute with Disney over ESPN.

    2) No Throttling - An ISP can't say "you have broadband Internet" and then tell you "you've used too much so now you're stuck at dial-up speeds." If they want to have caps - e.g. only 500GB of data per month - they need to clearly specify this limitation. ("the Order builds on the strong foundation established in 2010 and enhances the transparency rule for both end users and edge providers, including by adopting a requirement that broadband providers always must disclose
    promotional rates, all fees and/or surcharges, and all data caps or data allowances")

    3) No Paid Prioritization - An ISP can't tell a website that the website will be slowed down unless they pay for "fast lane access." (Note: This doesn't mean the ISP can't sell users faster speeds for more money. Just that ISPs can't try to double-dip by charging web content providers to allow/speed up their traffic through the ISP's network as well as charging users for the Internet access to get the web content.)

    All in all, pretty common sense stuff. It's a shame that it had to come down to a government agency saying this, but the ISPs only have themselves (and their greed) to blame.

    • How does this:

      3) No Paid Prioritization - An ISP can't tell a website that the website will be slowed down unless they pay for "fast lane access." (Note: This doesn't mean the ISP can't sell users faster speeds for more money. Just that ISPs can't try to double-dip by charging web content providers to allow/speed up their traffic through the ISP's network as well as charging users for the Internet access to get the web content.)

      Affect Netflix and that whole deal, if at all

      • 0. Netflix will charge the end ISP (Comcast, for instance) with throttling or pay-to-play.Lawsuit.

        1. ISP (Comcast for instance) will claim this is the fault of the lousy Netflix connection (through Cogent, for instance), and maybe even sue the connection provider.

        2. Netflix's provider (Congent, for instance) will disclaim any responsibility, maybe even sue Comcast (for instance), you know, slander.

        3. After a few years, customers will buy the higher tiers of service from Comcast (for instance).

        4. Before that

        • The only that works like the status quo is if Comcast throttles the user's Netflix traffic, which violates the "no throttling" rule.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by bhlowe ( 1803290 )
      And the minor detail that it puts the FCC in charge of regulating the Internet like it regulates utilities. (Under title II of the FCC.)
      • Re:The Rules (Score:5, Informative)

        by habig ( 12787 ) on Thursday March 12, 2015 @02:49PM (#49244137) Homepage

        Actually, this is the first thing to come out of Government in a while that actually makes senses ... and I generally lean pretty libertarian.

        Net access has a lot of parallels with other utilities (large infrastructure costs means little competition). In the case of phone companies, it's almost a one-for-one swap anyway: land lines are going the way of the dodo, but many of us now mostly use network packets for phone calls anyway (both actual voip phones and skype-like services).

        One can argue whether utility regulation itself is a good or bad thing: but network service quacks and waddles an awful lot like a utility-shaped duck, any way you slice it.

        • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

          by blue9steel ( 2758287 )

          Actually, this is the first thing to come out of Government in a while that actually makes senses ... and I generally lean pretty libertarian.

          I'm registered Libertarian and I agree. Generally the free market is pretty terrible at provisioning public goods. This decision makes sense for the same reason we don't have 20 different competing water companies. Of course some Libertarians like to argue that there is no such thing as public goods or that if the free market doesn't provide them then we're better off as a society without them but frankly I think they've been drinking a bit too much of the kool-aid.

          It's a bit frustrating that they fel

    • by OzPeter ( 195038 )

      1) No Blocking - An ISP can't block legal content for any reason.

      What is the definition of "Legal". For example, are online casinos not based in the US legal?

      • I took it to mean that ISPs can't be held accountable for blocking "Warez And Viruses R Us Dot Com" but can be held accountable if they block "Legal Video Streaming Service Dot Com."

        • Or an iSP can block all torrent traffic they think is illegal, and now that is sanctioned by the FCC unlike before where an ISP could not block traffic to you for any reason.

        • by OzPeter ( 195038 )

          I took it to mean that ISPs can't be held accountable for blocking "Warez And Viruses R Us Dot Com"

          But "Warez And Viruses R Us Dot Com" is legally registered and permitted to do business in outer Elbonia

    • In other words, #2 means they'll do away with unlimited and move to tiered access. #3 means that Netflix will flood and congest the rest of the network, meaning longer buffering times for all. And of course, #1 was never a realistic worry.

      • Hate to break it to you, but the ISPs who are most opposed to this regulation do not offer unlimited access. They have secret caps that will screw you over if you bump into them a couple of times.

      • The ISPs are already doing away with unlimited access. Unfortunately, many have been tight-lipped about how much access you get - cutting some people off at X GB while others download much more. This means they can institute caps but must say what the caps are. I haven't read the rules too closely, but there might be grounds to protest with the FCC if the caps are too low. (e.g. If Time Warner Cable decided everyone gets only 5GB a month.)

        • by Holi ( 250190 )
          Now with this they will actually have to tell you what the caps are, most likely hidden in some micro print at the end of your contract.
      • by Himmy32 ( 650060 )
        Or you know, follow up on offers to placed Content Distribution equipment at ISP sites. Just like they have at others, which would then allow just for delivering the bandwidth that the customers already bought and paid for. If the edge connections weren't just a manufactured issue to squeeze money out of the other side of the equation.

        If you can't deliver what you promised when you sold your service to your customers, don't sell it.
        • by HiThere ( 15173 )

          Did you read the contract you signed to get access to the ISP? Mine said "up to x megabytes per minute", which could only be violated if they delivered too fast a service. (Since I knew I'd never want to complain about that, I didn't bother to remember the details.)

          OTOH, I'm on a DSL line delivered by someone who isn't my ISP, so I probably wouldn't have standing to complain anyway. I would have moved over a decade ago, but my wife doesn't want to change her email address.

      • Except it's not Netflix flooding the network, it's the ISP's customers who are requesting data from Netflix. And if the ISP doesn't have enough bandwidth to deliver the services they're selling, then they should either upgrade their infrastructure or stop selling something they don't have.

    • Isn't this a work around for (3): As an ISP, you reduce the incoming pipe that your customers use. You then charge big data providers for various local hosting services/hardware, maybe even use a different incoming pipe to service this hardware. That's not technically a fast lane, but it should have the same effect.
    • 3) No Paid Prioritization - An ISP can't tell a website that the website will be slowed down unless they pay for "fast lane access."

      Wait until they find out about peering agreements.

  • "Unfortunately, the order released today begins a period of uncertainty that will damage broadband investment in the United States, ...

    ... our ability to rape, pillage and plunder our victims, I mean "customers", with impunity may be in jeopardy.

  • Well technically 7.5 pages. It is the appendix A. The rest of the document is just explanation for why the rules were needed, why implemented, precedence and other things.

  • by waspleg ( 316038 ) on Thursday March 12, 2015 @02:22PM (#49243903) Journal

    As posted by the Washington Post to Scribd. [scribd.com] Since my submission was rejected.

    The rules start on page 283.

  • "Unfortunately, the order released today begins a period of uncertainty that will damage broadband investment in the United States," Cicconi said.

    There is no uncertainty if everyone accepts the rules. You bring on the uncertainty when you sue. You can not blame the FCC.

A committee takes root and grows, it flowers, wilts and dies, scattering the seed from which other committees will bloom. -- Parkinson

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