Moscow To Track Cell-phone Users In 2015 For Traffic Analysis 63
An anonymous reader links to this story at The Stack (based on this translated report) that "The Moscow authorities will begin using the signal from Muscovites' cell-phones in 2015 to research patterns of traffic and points of congestion, with a view to changes in travel infrastructure including roads, the Moscow metro and bus services. The tracking, which appears to opt all users in unilaterally, promises not to identify individual cell-phone numbers, and will use GSM in most cases, but also GPS in more densely-constructed areas of the old city. The system is already in limited use on the roads, but will be extended to pedestrians and subway users in 2015. The city of 11.5 million people has three main cell providers, all of whom cooperate fully with authorities' request for information. A representative of one, Beeline, said: "We prepare reports that detail where our subscribers work, live, move, and other aspects."
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>all of whom cooperate fully with authorities' request for information.
You want what? Hahahahahaha. *chambers round* Uhhh...sure. No problem. Here ya go.
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Wow ... (Score:5, Insightful)
So, does this mean that Russia is finally catching up with the US in terms of monitoring its citizens?
The mind reels.
Papers please, comrade.
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So, does this mean that Russia is finally catching up with the US in terms of monitoring its citizens?
The mind reels.
Papers please, comrade.
In Putin's Russia the traffic watches YOU!
Re:Wow ... (Score:5, Interesting)
They're beating us in this one.
Current traffic monitoring systems use either CC video analysis, ramp meters, magnetic loop, or blue tooth detection. I've heard of systems to pick up tire pressure indicator signals also, but I haven't seen them first hand.
With all of that, we get ~5-7% of the vehicle speed data on select routes.
In 2017 new requirements go into effect to require all vehicles produced for use in the US to include V2V communications systems. Most of these systems also include V2I communications. Even if they don't, I'd expect detecting that a specific V2V entity just drove past is going to be trivial.
So by the end of 2017, we're going to be on parity with all of our current assorted solutions for penetration. By the end of 2018, we'll have double the penetration. By 2020, roughly 20-25% of all vehicles will contain V2V and/or V2I communications.
So what does that mean? It means we could generate optimum route data and re-route traffic based on travel time recommendations before they get onto a major road with limited access and a traffic issue on the desired route.
It also means we can identify true bottlenecks and take completely new approaches to road engineering and project prioritization. This alone is a multi-billion dollar a year industry, funded largely by tax payers. If we can find more efficient ways of taking on these projects, it means less expenditures (or more projects).
But it comes with down sides. A policing agency could in theory query the system to see where you currently are, or where your vehicle was at a specific time. It also makes it possible for the mile traveled road tax, where you can be taxed by mile driven, and those taxes can vary and be distributed by municipalities that own those roads. And of course there is a security concern that a hacker or malicious user could determine your driving habits and use the information to their advantage. I did even hear a member of the law enforcement community asking about such a system's ability to disable vehicles remotely in the case of excessive speed, chases, etc...
Basically, there's a huge shift coming in the US and how we (and the government) interact with our vehicles.
-Rick
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Er, no. I was playing around with the traffic feature in Google Maps (which shows you how bad traffic congestion is). I had always assumed they were getting their data from CalTrans cameras along the freeways or something. But then I zoomed in and no
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Sorry, I should specify that the -government- is currently monitoring traffic via those methods.
Private industry has access to things that elements of the government does not, like your cell phone's position and speed (assuming you have Google's positioning system enabled).
Now, the NSA/FBI/Police may have some way of hacking in to get that, or put up stingers to catch it, but for all of the state DOTs out there, individuals' cell phones are not available. And the systems we have available to measure traffic
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So, does this mean that Russia is finally catching up with the US in terms of monitoring its citizens?
The mind reels.
Papers please, comrade.
The only thing reeling in my mind is the ability for others to believe this type of monitoring hasn't been going on already.
For years.
This is Russia we're talking about. Control isn't just a fancy word thrown around at dinner parties at the Kremlin.
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Google does it: no Problem
Russia does it: OMG SURVEILLANCE STATE
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Re:So turn off your phone (Score:5, Insightful)
Why does your phone have to be on all the time anyway?
Uhm, in order to receive calls???
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Uhm, in order to receive calls???
Such an antiquated concept...
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Such an antiquated concept...
True. I should have written "Uhm, in order to receive SnapChats?" ;-)
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I think the point was if you need to be able to receive calls at all times. I don't. Especially when I know that whenever my phone is on, I am being tracked. Why don't they just mandate ankle monitors for all citizens anyway?
Given how hard a US citizen would be scrutinized if they chose to not ever carry a cell phone or have an email address, I'd say it IS pretty much mandated. You'll likely end up with your own FBI file otherwise.
However, that being said, I don't see the purpose of you even owning a phone if you're concerned about being tracked. It's going to become more and more impossible (or illegal) to own a dumb phone anymore, so even powering on a smartphone to make a call will likely result in a mass data dump from yo
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It's going to become more and more impossible (or illegal) to own a dumb phone anymore
What do you mean? How will owning a dumbphone tomorrow be any harder or more impossible/illegal than it was yesterday?
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It's going to become more and more impossible (or illegal) to own a dumb phone anymore
What do you mean? How will owning a dumbphone tomorrow be any harder or more impossible/illegal than it was yesterday?
Have you visited a phone store lately?
Finding a true dumbphone these days is about as easy as finding sports shoes without looking like a neon smurf puked all over them. Offerings have changed just a bit, and even my parents cheap-ass pre-paid phone is a smartphone.
As providers realize the potential revenue streams related to smartphones, the option of even offering a dumbphone option becomes more foreign to every provider.
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It's being tracked even if it is off. Only way to NOT be tracked is to remove the battery.
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its the rest of the folks that are wacko
for some folks if they can't contact you RIGHT THIS MOMENT they assume you are "dead in a ditch" somewhere.
I have a rule that if you are not on the following list i will not answer the phone
1 Did you give birth to me?
2 Do you currently employ me?
3 are you otherwise going to be giving me some sort of resource?
4 picking me up for something?
5 treating me for something?
6 arranging some sort of service?
the funny thing is most of those folks actually contact me by other mea
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Why? Since when was it required by law that I must have my phone in a state that anyone can call me AND I MUST ANSWER THEM?
I have a cell phone, and it is turned off 95% of the time. I turn it on when I need to make a call, it has a message service if someone needs to let me know something.
I don't understand this need to be contactable 24 hours a day as if life itself depends on it.
I grew up without a cell phone and did not die, I own a cell phone and turn it off and still I am alive. Why do most people feel the need to have a contact 24 hours a day? Are they that scared to just think for themselves.
Given the general "geek" feel on this particular forum, surely you must understand that your position on this is a rather foreign concept to those who livelihood might in fact depend on them being connected 24 hours a day. And quite often it has nothing to do with thinking for themselves. (I blame a shitty attitude towards work/life balance, and an overall sickening addiction to build monitoring devices for every damn thing in the universe, as if your fridge really needs it's own Twitter handle)
Feel fortu
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I don't understand this need to be contactable 24 hours a day as if life itself depends on it.
If you need me, you can contact my staff. If it's important, they'll put the call through or forward the message. People who are 'always on' tend to be lower on the social or organizational totem pole. People who will catch hell if they don't pick up NOW.
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If you need me, you can contact my staff. If it's important, they'll put the call through or forward the message. People who are 'always on' tend to be lower on the social or organizational totem pole. People who will catch hell if they don't pick up NOW.
You have personal staff that your family members are supposed to call if they need to talk to you? I think it's a pretty safe assumption that the vast majority of people are not as rich as you are.
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(If the phone was off, there would be no music coming from the stereo. Did you mean "airplane mode"?)
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I had wondered if it was supposed to be GRPS, and somebody didn't know what that was and shortened it to GPS assuming it must be a typo or something.
In Soviet Russia, traffic gets stuck in you! (Score:2)
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Seems a rather weak excuse (Score:2)
Yes, gathering anonymous data, (good luck with that) can be a very helpful and cheap way of gathering real-time data on traffic flows. However, as anyone who spent some time in Moscow can attest, the traffic is basically in gridlock everywhere most of the time, with the worst pinch points being damn obvious to anyone...
I don't have a problem with it ... (Score:2)
... Russia can do whatever it wants to do.
This is a shame, really (Score:2)
A shame that we fully expect this data to be used to track us personally (because, let's face it, it probably will). This kind of data would be a huge value to civil engineers and planners who design the roads and target maintenance, improvements, and new routes. It would cost in the tens of millions of dollars to collect just a fraction of this using traditional methods, and yet the data could be had for less than a 1/10 of that and be far, far more complete.
NSA says .... (Score:3)
Okay, then, move out of Moscow (Score:2)
Seriously, any Muscovites having problems w/ this and suspecting it to be anything other than traffic analysis, move. You could get really far from Putin by relocating to places like Vladivostok, Krasnoyarsk, Magadan, et al. Which may take a while to get that traffic analysis. Not to mention - all the problems that Moscow is famous for - you get to leave that behind
After all, it's not like your country is short on real estate: if anything, Siberia is badly underpopulated. So move there, and you'd prob
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I don't really see anyone complaining.
A big difference between Russia and the US is that people in the US expect the government to respect their privacy and then act righteously outraged when it turns out the government spies on them, but in Russia everyone expects the government to spy on them so they don't really get upset when the government says that they do just that.
Waze (Score:2)
Adding traffic analysis (Score:2)
We've been tracking your cell phones for years now but we're going to start using the data for traffic analysis this year.
Google Maps called (Score:1)
They want their near-real-time traffic-congestion reports back.
Yeah, riiiiiiight... (Score:1)
In Soviet Moscow (Score:2)
In Soviet Moscow the police track YOU!
just like they do here.