Chinese Government Moves To Crack Down On Puns 156
FreedomFirstThenPeac (1235064) writes "A story in The Guardian tells us that in an Orwellian move to legislate language, the Chinese government is attempting to stop the use of puns because they are disruptive and may lead to chaos (not the mathematical kind) and as such are unsuitable for use. However, Chinese is rife with puns, with this example quoted in the story: "When couples marry, people will give them dates and peanuts – a reference to the wish Zaosheng guizi or 'May you soon give birth to a son.' The word for dates is also zao and peanuts are huasheng." The powerful date and peanut lobbies are up in arms, claiming that such a ban will cost them more than peanuts. Their claim? "If you outlaw puns. Only criminals will have puns."
Re:Surely, that's no pun (Score:4, Interesting)
What, did the Chinese government finally cotton onto the fact that the Lion-Easting Poet in the Stone Den [wikipedia.org] was mocking them? Not sure it's strictly speaking a lengthy pun, but it's at least a related wordplay, and was a protest against the choice of Pinyin vs other choices that would have presented more distinction when writing a tonal language.
IIRC, Wikipedia used to lead with the explanation that the poem was really an exercise in slipping one past the censors to protest the choice, disguised as an "exercise in constrained writing". Now the text doesn't seem to discuss the mockery at all, unless I'm missing it, making the joke image of "an uneaten stone lion" seem strangely out-of-place.
While The Hunting of the Snark [wikipedia.org] remains the greatest-ever exercise in slipping one past the censors (so much so that a non-dirty meaning of "snark" has become common!), Lion-Eating Poet was always a close second IMO. I notice Wikipedia doesn't give the obvious explanation of the Carroll poem either, but maybe that's just an elaborate exercise in avoiding spoilers, so I'll do the same here!
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Lion-Eating Poet in the Stone Den is from the early 1910s, meaning it pre-dates pinyin by 50 years. It does look especially stupid in pinyin, but the joke works just as well for theoretical Chinese people who aren't aware of roman characters at all - making puns of words with different tones is very, very common.
I'd need to see a little more background than this article gives, because (as the article does state), puns are just a basic part of Chinese culture. This is probably just an over-interpretation o
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Ah, thanks for the background! I hadn't heard of the 10 mythical species, but it's good to know creativity is alive and well.
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Boys and Girls, Google your Grand Parents about the use, and historical applications. Only say, "Nuts," to them and see their faces when you do. XD
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He mostly intended it as a linguistic joke - if you've ever read any of his works, he can be quite amusing - and as a demonstration of how Chinese has changed over the millenia. In ancient Chinese, the poem would be more or less comprehensible (alth
Confucius say... (Score:2, Funny)
Woman who fly upside down have hairy crack up.
The Chinese government can bite me now.
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I felt a great disturbance in the force... as if millions of old men suddenly cried out in terror, and then were suddenly banned from making bad puns...
Re:ConfucI see it nowius say... (Score:3)
This is the new word order :(
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learn to masturbate, come in handy
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Man who walk through airport turnstile sideways going to Bangkok
i for one say HARRO! to our PRC overlords (Score:1)
ah, the inevitable poorly-worded statement of false equivalence.
are definite articles really so fucking difficult to learn?
Well, Grass Mud Horse to them! (Score:3)
We'll see how that works out for them.
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We'll see how that works out for them.
One of the worst things a Government can do is make people laugh at it.
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One of the worst things a Government can do is make people laugh at it.
A tyrant fears the laugh more than the assassin's bullet. -Robert Heinlein
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They care if everyone laughs at them, because it means no-one fears them. Individuals laughing can be dealt with, um, individually.
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Umm... laughee or laughor? (Score:2)
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
Mahatma Gandhi
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First they march you through hundreds of miles of jungle without food or water, then they shoot you, then they disembowel you, then you lose.
Mahatma Gandhi, had Japan won WW2
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Actually, one of the worst things you could do TO a totalitarian government is to laugh about them.
Totalitarian regimes rely on fear and intimidation. Both go out the window once you see that the emperor has no clothes.
Nope. (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, one of the worst things you could do TO a totalitarian government is to laugh about them.
Nope.
Totalitarian regimes rely on fear and intimidation. Both go out the window once you see that the emperor has no clothes.
Also nope.
The actual quote mentions a TYRANT. A singular ruler whose power relies heavily on personal reputation.
Misapplying that to a regime at best makes you misinformed. At worst disappeared.
A totalitarian government is NOT one that NEEDS fear and intimidation to rule. It's a government that already HAS you by the balls.
It does not need fear or intimidation. That's for petty dictatorships. A totalitarian government has CONTROL over rules and laws.
I.e. It does not need to intimidate you into not drinking alcoholic beverages. It just makes it illegal.
So, because it is aware of its own power, it is perfectly fine with letting you get your rocks off at its expense - as it knows that all it has to do is squeeze for your laughter to become a squeal.
And it also knows that if it lets you bark at it you will never get frustrated enough to bite, while it can dismiss you with a wave of a hand "proving its openness to criticism".
If you do eventually bite... well, you're clearly a mad dog. Just look at all your history of constant barking.
It's totalitarian cause it already has all the power and control. It doesn't need fear nor does it fear ridicule.
Only those who DO NOT have absolute power, but pretend that they do, fear laughter.
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Nope.
psst.... We're having fun here. Isn't there a "Women in STEM careers" thread you can spread your sunshine around in somewhere? Otherwise, have some Pun! You know a good pun is it's own re-word.
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Pretty sure that's not true... (Score:2)
One of the worst things a Government can do is make people laugh at it.
In no particular order... war, recession, genocide, ecological disaster, government prescribed religion, concentration camps, fascism, disbanding of social services, police state...
All far worse and clearly in a different category from "make people laugh at it".
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Because most people's roommates don't speak mandarin,
link to explanation
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Ok I am bad at html apparently, good luck - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G... [wikipedia.org]
link attempt #2 [wikipedia.org]
It's a reference to an obscenity (Score:2)
Hadlock has the correct link to that 2009 meme, but that meme had existed way before the advent of the Net
The word "Grass", or in Chinese "Cao", sounds like another word, to put it in "family term", sexual intercourse
The word "Mud", or in Chinese "Ni", sounds a lot like the word that carries the meaning of "You"
The word "Horse", in Chinese "Ma", is a root-character in Chinese, for many Chinese characters has "Ma" (or Horse) embedded, including the character that represents "Mother" (also pronounce as "Ma" i
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Another fun pun, is that the word for "grandmother" is the same as the word for "boobs".
So, you can ask a girl "Can I see your grandmother?"
If she says yes, great.
If she gets upset, you can backtrack, and say that you just wanted to meet her family.
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Another fun pun, is that the word for "grandmother" is the same as the word for "boobs".
... I'd love to know how that happened ...
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It could be worse, in Japanese "daddy" is a homonym for "tits."
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Don Quixote, anyone ? (Score:1)
That "State Administration for Press, Publication, Radio, Film and Television" is nothing but a bunch of imbecile pencil pushers
If they think that they can change a culture which has 7,000 years of history behind it, with an "official edict" they better stand in front of a big mirror
Chinese history is filled with many attempt of cultural engineering - and in the 7,000 years of history, only two succeeded
Confucianism and chop-sticks
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Oh, come on, the Qin emperor, bless his tiny meglomaniacal heart managed at least two successful ones. His standardization of the written system and massive book burning were both hugely effective and influential to this day. (One could probably make some kind of argument around the great wall for a third, though casting something which was a massive defense project AND a means of disposing of malcontents as cultural engineering would at least take effort.)
The recent standardization of the spoken language i
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Could be that's why they're doing this, so that the next time someone starts talking about River Crabs [wikipedia.org] they can more easily do something about it, though if so I'm not sure what's stopping them already.
I call hoax! (Score:3)
I saw this article recently on ThePunion.com, I'm sure of it.
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I saw this article recently on ThePunion.com, I'm sure of it.
Agreed, this reminds of one of those times when a paper in China or Russia rips a story from the Onion.
It still might be legit, according to the article:
But the order from the State Administration for Press, Publication, Radio, Film and Television says: “Radio and television authorities at all levels must tighten up their regulations and crack down on the irregular and inaccurate use of the Chinese language, especially the misuse of idioms.”
Which is plausible as random bureaucrats sometimes issue brain dead rules which are quickly forgotten once the laughter dies down.
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Next up....
Strict prohibition against with life jail term or execution for: calling out hoaxes, creating hoaxes, pointing out lies by government or powerful companies, Hyperbole, Toilet humor, and Sarcasm.
I laughed (Score:5, Insightful)
"If you outlaw puns. Only criminals will have puns."
I'll admit, as a 2nd amendment proponent I laughed out loud at this one.
Re:I laughed (Score:5, Funny)
Thoes who pun will be PUNished.
That right I will be here all night. (Away from human contact like I should)
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I solve practical problems. Like how do I stop some mean-ol' mother-hubbard from [figuratively] tearing me a structurally superfluous behind?
The answer, is a pun.
And if that don't work... use more pun!
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Use a pun, go to prison.
Cheers,
Dave
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Use a pun, go to prison.
*Snerk*
Thank's everyone. I had work to do so I couldn't go on a gun = pun sloganfest, thanks for taking up the slack!
"This is my rifle and this is my pun; this is for fighting and this is for fun!"
Re:I laughed (Score:5, Funny)
Puns don't kill people, comedians with puns kill people.
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It's pathetic that a sporting club full of cowards who cannot properly manage their sport have bought so much influence in Washington.
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How did that military service as the price for military issue gun ownership go?
1. That's your requirement, not mine.
2. Besides, 'everyone' is part of the militia(pretty much).
3. Finally, the amendment specifies the people's right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. The militia clause more means that if the government felt the need it could call the appropriate people up(fit, not to old, etc...) for mandatory militia training, whether they owned a firearm or not. Matter of fact, in the early militia acts they could force you to purchase a suitable weapon once notified of
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How convenient. No responsibility required. Carry on then, maybe cut that flag into strips to clean your guns since it's not doing anything useful.
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How convenient. No responsibility required.
Ah, I suggest you have a talk with somebody if you think that responsibility only grows out of participation in the military, and or at the direction of the government.
It's probably shocking to you, but I think you should have demonstrated enough responsibility for a firearm by the time you're graduating high school, instilled by your parents, the schools, community, and life in general.
The military can only do so much, and has gotten out of most of the 'teaching responsibility' game. It's no longer big en
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Upon review, I'm going to conclude that you're just hurt that I have a sense of humor and you don't.
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The AC got it right. I've never worn a police uniform in my life.
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2A supporter like George Zimmerman and Michael Dunn?
Oh dear (Score:1)
From all over the internet, punsters will hear the call of this thread, and they will come. They will post. Puns.
It is the End Times, I'm afraid.
Definitely a new meaning for "Punishment" (Score:1)
-30-
This so funny ... (Score:5, Funny)
... I don't know whether to slap my chin or knees.
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hey (Score:5, Funny)
Hey 2 (Score:2)
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Unfortunately, american-ised puns like that while mildly humorous, are shallow at best - generally focusing just on mild word play.
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It was actually a legendary family. There was Dong Hung Lo who had two sons. One son was named Wang Hung Lo. The other, first one born in America, was named Richard.
That ministry is only a joke. (Score:1)
puns bypass censorship (Score:5, Funny)
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Without a pun, pundits would just be dits.
The way I see it, China's just banned a whole class of lame jokes, presumably for mental health reasons. Maybe this'll force people to start using proper double entendres instead. I for one am looking forward to a whole new generation of insults.
This is too meta. (Score:2)
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Whereupun (Score:2)
we must punish the puny pundits with punty of punalties
A question mark alone, isn't a subject I'm told (Score:2)
Guizi (Chinese: ; pinyin: guzi) is a Chinese slang term for foreigners, and has a long history of being used as a racially depreciating insult. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G... [wikipedia.org]
(Also posted below before it hit the front page)
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Need a new language (Score:1)
If they want to get out of puns they need to get a new language. My wife is Chinese and explains to me all the time about all the puns.
No, bite the wax tadpole (Score:2)
No, no, bite the wax tadpole [snopes.com]. Don't cook it with baking soda and smoke it.
Mao said it best (Score:5, Funny)
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Are you sure that one was from Mao? - wasn't Hitler the one who was always shooting his mouth off?
Next week, on Cracked... (Score:2)
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well slashdot.jp is only 2 days behind slashdot.org for news articles so when this story hits there in 2 days there will probably be another day for the asians to figure it out then another two days for them to translate back to english for cracked....
For China (Score:2)
stinks - you can tell if she hang high: a veritable fragrant harbour. I'd put money on it if, if I were to bet, but I have no mao money so I'll have to gweilo for a while.
Double Translation (Score:2)
Just so /. stays readable in China, can we have a list of phrases in English that translate into Chinese puns?
and of course... (Score:1)
offenders are sent to the punitentiary
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They're enacting punitive measures.
Wrong (Score:2)
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If news anchors run out of everything else they're allowed to say, they're liable to resort to actual journalism.
Hmmm.... Maybe the West should try that...
I'm Qing of the thread! (Score:2)
but not first post.
Hurts me tsu much.
bioue (Score:1)
Disambiguation (Score:2)
Mandarin works with one syllabus per character. There are 5000 characters (well, 2000 to read the newpaper), but 300 different syllabus. The language is extraordinary ambiguous.
Disambiguation often works by sticking synonyms characters together to form a word. I can understand puns are a threat to the language interoperability. It must be a serious threat for China to use law against it.
From the Tao Te Ching (Score:2)
Tones? Good luck with that! (Score:2)
I don't speak Mandarin, but a language where a variation in tones can generate a different meaning must be ripe for puns. Given such a puntastic environment, I don't the government stands a chance.
I don't know........ (Score:2)
I think there's a chink in their argument.
Next on the list is to outlaw inlaws. (Score:1)
When inlaws are outlawed only outlaws will have inlaws.
There once was a girl from Nantucket.. (Score:1)
I sometimes think... (Score:2)
...that these moves are feints, made to be fighted against and to distract from the more serious oppressions. No other "sensical" explanation comes to mind.
The best ever ... (Score:2)
Also (Score:1)
Outlawning puns? (Score:1)
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We should outlaw puns. If you want to tell a pun to Princess Leia, you should have a Permit to Carrie.