GNOME Project Seeks Donations For Trademark Battle With Groupon 268
Drinking Bleach writes Groupon has released a tablet-based point of sale system called Gnome, despite the well-known desktop environment's existence and trademark status. This is also not without Groupon's internal knowledge of the GNOME project; they were contacted about the infringement and flatly refused to change the name of their own product, in addition to filing many new trademark applications for theirs. The GNOME project is seeking donations to help them in a legal battle against these trademark applications, and to get Groupon to stop using their name. They are seeking at least $80,000 to challenge a first set of ten trademark applications from Groupon, out of 28 applications that have been filed.
If this were ten years ago, I would have (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:If this were ten years ago, I would have (Score:4, Informative)
"The Phoenix name was kept until April 14, 2003, when it was changed because of a trademark dispute with the BIOS manufacturer, Phoenix Technologies (which produces a BIOS-based browser called Phoenix FirstWare Connect). The new name, Firebird, met with mixed reactions, particularly as the Firebird database server already carried the name. In response, the Mozilla Foundation stated that the browser should always bear the name Mozilla Firebird to avoid confusion with the database software. Continuing pressure from the Firebird community forced another change,[1] and on February 9, 2004 the project was renamed Mozilla Firefox (or Firefox for short)."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Firefox
Just because you don't agree with the desktop environment's choice doesn't mean that they are in the wrong here, or that this wouldn't have lasting implications in the open-source community. Even if you aren't using Gnome-shell, chances are very strong that you are running something requiring GStreamer or GTK 2/3 that comes from the Gnome project. Open-source products have been bullied in the past (see the Firefox example above, or $4/device to Microsoft for their "development" of Android) by well-funded campaigns that seek to ride the coattails of a community-oriented product for their own profit. Dozens of community sites, Gnome-look.org, Worldofgnome.org, etc. and system libraries stand to lose of Groupon presses their trademark.
This is an assault on open-source software, and regardless of what you feel about the direction that Gnome is taking, it the project is still very relevant and this action should not be tolerated. It's okay to debate among the community about the direction of the project, but the community needs to have clear resolve to combat outside threats to its right to exist.
Re:If this were ten years ago, I would have (Score:5, Insightful)
Hear hear. If one of the biggest and best known names in the FOSS world can't defend themselves from something so blatant it just encourages other big corporations from abusing smaller groups.
Red hat, we're looking at you to step up here.
The Systemd and GNOME3 toxic manouvers are irrelevant.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Do you realize that XFCE uses Gtk+ and a host of other software developed by GNOME?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Well if we were being informed on the history of GTK we would know that GTK was developed by The GIMP so they could have a pretty GUI for their nice image manipulation software, then Gnome happend to like that GIMP Tool Kit and used it to create Gnome, but whatever floats your boat.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
That is exactly not what that message says. He starts:
Important disclaimer: I am now stating the de-facto situation, not the
situation I wish for.
and continues:
GTK 3 at this point really is just the GNOME toolkit. There is absolutely zero
involvement from anyone else.
He's complaining that nobody else helps develop GTK, not saying that GNOME doesn't want other people to use GTK.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
No, what they are saying is that they are the major contributors, which is actually true. So GTK is catering more and more to THEIR needs. Of course, this being Slashdot we should force their developers do things that WE like, despite us not contributing a single line of code.
I disagree with many of the design principles of the new gnome, but they are not obligated to focus their resources on a path that they don't want to follow. I don't see anyone giving shit to the people at Englihtenment desktop for wri
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, this is pretty much the worst project for this to happen to. Gnome is pretty much the poster child for what's wrong with open source these days.
At the very least it's groupon on the other side, who I for whatever reason hate more. I'm not even sure what it is with them, their advertising and corporate vibe just really rub me the wrong way.
Re:Both are a POS (Score:5, Funny)
Soon everything will be a POS - Poettering's Operating System.
Re: (Score:3)
How about a Linux windowing system... (Score:5, Funny)
...called Groupon
Groupon Window System will take the best of windowing system technologies, mix it all up in a big bit bucket, and then start a flamewar followed by a schism. Just like all of the others.
Huh? (Score:3, Informative)
Unless Gnome is selling PoS systems, how would this infringe their trademark?
Huh? (Score:5, Funny)
Gnome is certainly a PoS.
Trademark breadth (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Trademark breadth (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Trademark breadth (Score:4, Informative)
...to name one of the few things Coca Cola doesn't stick their name on yet AFAIK...
Couldn't resist. [strapya-world.com]
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Trademarks are usually valid within a specific field of use.
Yes, and the mark's specified goods and services don't overlap with this PoS system.
But the more famous the mark becomes, the broader the judge will construe exclusivity.
GNOME isn't that famous.
For example, something like "COCA-COLA" is so famous that Coke's lawyers will have no trouble making a prima facie case for dilution if the mark is used for any other product.
Wrong. are numerous registered marks that are "COCA-COLA" that are not from the Coca-Cola company. [uspto.gov]
Mozilla had to rename Firebird to Firefox even though database software and web browser software aren't exactly the same field.
But the actual registered goods and services for the mark could have overlapped.
But whether the "GNOME" mark applies to useful computer software in general or to GUI frameworks in particular is for a judge to decide after the GNOME project's counsel presents its case.
This isn't a GUI framework. It's a tablet PoS system. It does not fall under any of GNOME's registered goods and services.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Trademark breadth (Score:5, Informative)
For example, something like "COCA-COLA" is so famous that Coke's lawyers will have no trouble making a prima facie case for dilution if the mark is used for any other product.
Wrong. are numerous registered marks that are "COCA-COLA" that are not from the Coca-Cola company. [uspto.gov]
Your link doesn't work. And a search on TESS for "coca-cola" as the full mark and "NOT Coca-Cola Company" as the applicant returns one hit, an abandoned application by a pro se "sovereign citizen": "Harvey W. Wiley DBA We The People INDIVIDUAL UNITED STATES 900 Georgia Ave Chattanooga TENNESSEE 37402". Searching for "coca-cola" in the description of the mark with "NOT Coca-Cola Company" as the applicant returns one hit, a design for an author's business card that uses the same red color as Coke: "The color(s) coca-cola red is/are claimed as a feature of the mark. The mark consists of a coca-cola red kneeling fisherman." But it's also abandoned.
Finally, searching for "coca-cola" anywhere in the application, but NOT the Coca-Cola Company as the applicant turns up a pile of applications... from people with addresses at "Coca-cola Plaza" or "Coca-cola Park" in various cities - i.e. tenants in Coke's industrial parks. Is that what you searched for and thought you found?
Re: (Score:3)
> Yes, and the mark's specified goods and services don't overlap with this PoS system.
Except this "POS system" is really just a general purpose computer with a GUI. The point of Trademarks is not splitting legal hairs or finding loopholes but addressing genuine issues of consumer confusion.
Specialty computer system named foo versus GUI software named foo.
Re:Trademark breadth (Score:4, Insightful)
Quote from the first link : "When it's complete, Gnome will serve as an operating system for merchants to run their entire operation and enable them to create real-time promotions that bring customers into their business when they need them the most."
It's really a top-level, self-contained GUI versus a top level, self-contained GUI.
Both have significant underlying libraries, GUI toolkit probably, built-in apps - Gnome speaks of "Gnome OS" even. (a rough analogy would be like it's Windows 3.1 on top of DOS. Groupon must be using something be it linux, a BSD variant, QNX etc.)
Re: (Score:3)
Unless Gnome is selling PoS systems, how would this infringe their trademark?
I agree that if it was in a different domain they might not have a very strong case but a PoS is basically a simplified
GUI so I think there is a very strong case that there could be potential confusion between a computer running gnome desktop
and a computer running gnome PoS. I have no idea why groupon would want that confusion unless they think they
can steal some of gnome desktop's reputation.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Groupon's SEO Ekssp3rt suggested that "Gnome POS" has so many google results that it makes their product look popular.
Re:Huh? (Score:5, Funny)
Any way, it shouldn't be a problem; they could just use a translation of the word 'Gnome' - for example, in Swedish: Nissan. Problem solved.
Why feed the lawyers? (Score:4, Insightful)
One is a desktop environment. The other is a tablet-based point of sale system. Who's going to confuse the two? "I wanted to install GNOME on my laptop, but instead it's asking me if I want to redeem a coupon."
Is GNOME going to challenge anyone who calls anything a gnome?
Re: (Score:3)
Is GNOME going to challenge anyone who calls anything a gnome?
You mean the desktop environment? Or the tablet-based point of sale system.
Re: (Score:3)
Heh. I see what you did there.
In all seriousness, were GNOME-the-desktop to have some major security incident and it affects the viability of GNOME-the-PoS with potential customers by associating the brand with security problems in search engine results, someone will start to appreciate the merit of avoiding name collisions.
Re:Why feed the lawyers? (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Huh? What does that have to do with anything? Was GNOME marketing Lowes POS system under the name GNOME? No. Someone just happened to use the GNOME desktop manager to make a POS system (not called GNOME).
Re: (Score:2)
Huh? What does that have to do with anything? Was GNOME marketing Lowes POS system under the name GNOME? No. Someone just happened to use the GNOME desktop manager to make a POS system (not called GNOME).
For all we know, Lowe's (or a software vendor contracted by Lowes) may have marketed (or may choose in the future to market) their POS to other parties as a GNOME-based product. It wouldn't be the product name, but it could be trumpeted in the feature listing. For that matter, the GNOME project may reasonably identify an opportunity to produce a POS-specific version of their product and want to call it "GNOME-POS" or something.
The Lowe's example definitely shows the overlapping and competing uses of the
Re: (Score:3)
One is a desktop environment. The other is a tablet-based point of sale system.
A Slashdot audience may understand, but I think you are massively overestimating how obvious the distinction would be to the general public. It will be about as clear as GNU versus Linux.
Re: (Score:2)
And the general public is pretty much oblivious to Gnome, unlike the /. population. To paraphrase what people around here are fond of frequently stating, Gnome should be glad for the advertising they get from people searching for a POS system.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Why feed the lawyers? (Score:4, Insightful)
If they called it "Windows", do you think they would last a nanosecond before the orbital lawyers opened fire?
Re: (Score:3)
These days, is there anything that's NOT on a computer?
IANL (Score:5, Informative)
Re:IANL (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
I'm not a lawyer, but a POS and a desktop environment don't seem like overlapping categories for Trademark purposes.
How do you figure? They are both the frontend GUI, window manager, and most visible portion of the environment.
If you asked an uninformed newbie what OS they were running on either system the most likely answer would be "gnome"
though neither "gnome desktop" nor "gnome PoS" are operating systems when a normal thinks of an operating system
they think of the window and gui management system. Yes, gnome is a full fledged desktop environment but that's like
saying I can market bottled water under the name "coca
Re: (Score:3)
One must protect their trademark or risk losing it. That is why we now have Jello brand gelatin and Band-Aids brand bandages. Apple Computer successfully defended it's trademark against Apple Records which was founded by the Beatles and those two categories were a lot further apart than Gnome the desktop environment, GnomeOS (put out by the Gnome foundation) and Gnome the point of sale operating system.
Re: IANL (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
But you must still defend your mark and Gnome the open source project desktop environment and also GnomeOS the operating system are pretty similar sounding to the GNOME point of sale system which includes the GNOME operating system per the article. While most of us could see that Apple Records and Apple Computer were two unrelated things, the courts found Apple Records to infringe on Apple Computer's mark. Likewise, McDonalds has fought very hard to protect its mark and also to expand it. Or, when Starwar
Re: (Score:3)
>the courts found Apple Records to infringe on Apple Computer's mark
You have that backwards. It was Apple Corps (the Beatles) who sued. Apple Corp was never found to be the infringing party.
Re: (Score:2)
>the courts found Apple Records to infringe on Apple Computer's mark
You have that backwards. It was Apple Corps (the Beatles) who sued. Apple Corp was never found to be the infringing party.
You are correct, that's what happens when you don't actually review after hitting the preview button! :)
Re: (Score:3)
and part of the settlement was that Apple Computer Corp agreed to stay out of the Music business ... until a bunch of years later when they renegotiated.
Re: IANL (Score:2)
The GNOME guys have worked hard to ensure that their UI is only useful on tablets. Now along comes Groupon (aka the Hindu god of small business destruction) wanting to put out a tablet by the same name.
Based upon my twenty years experience with linux desktops, I can safely say that GNOME is no longer useful as a desktop environment and is exclusively focused on tablets now. They can show this post to their judge as my contribution.
Re: (Score:3)
The GNOME desktop guys need to stop acting like they own the word "gnome".
Said the poster quoting executives inside Groupon!
As far as operating systems are concerned, they do in fact "own" the word "gnome." That is by definition of what a trademark is.
The gnome foundation does have a right to be concerned. With an point of sale system that offers a "gnome" operating environment, end users could easily confuse the two. And it seriously could affect the Gnome Foundation's ability to conduct any business in the future as their mark would be seriously diluted.
What is also disturbing
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
The end user would see it as part of an operating system - which it does become. All I'm seeing here on Slashdot is what must be a bunch of Groupon employees trolling Slashdot trying to defend their company. But they will lose this trademark case.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
GNOME: Desktop Environment recently focused on a GUI optimized for touch/tablet interfaces.
Gnome: Point Of Sale running on a tablet with customized GUI.
Two different GUI's running on a tablet with the same name. That's overlapping to me.
Re: (Score:2)
And neither Apple (the music company) nor Apple (the computer company) was able to prevent the other from using the name, even after the computer company dove into the music world (though they settled that without a trial). "General Motors" is a unique and specific enough combination of words (e.g., it isn't such a great name for a software company), that I don't think they could easily be used by another company in a nonconfusing way.
I just don't see confusion with GNOME as a likely outcome of allowing Gr
Re: (Score:2)
There was a settlement between the companies about the use fo the name long before Apple Computer went into the music business.
Gnome did the same thing to KDE, even worse (Score:3, Interesting)
Gnome had no problem usurping the KDE term "Activities" as a synonym for "Virtual Desktops" even though KDE had been using the term to mean something else for years:
http://aseigo.blogspot.co.il/2... [blogspot.co.il]
The Gnome move is even more confusing than the Groupon move as the new Gnome term _replaces an existing term_ and additionally is also a UI term similar, but not quite exactly, like the KDE term. At least nobody is likely to confuse a Gnome tablet with a Gnome desktop environment.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Did KDE have a registered Trademark for "Activities"?
From a legal perspective your point is made. However, from a usability perspective, Gnome has never cared about user experience and this move was one of the first to show it.
Re: (Score:2)
Actually, I'm a KDE user and I hardly ever touch the mouse. I'm not even sure if it is plugged into the particular machine I'm on right now.
How is their infringment? (Score:5, Informative)
How would this be infringement? GNOME's trademark lists only the following goods and services:
Downloadable computer software tools and libraries used for the development of other software applications; downloadable computer software development tools; downloadable computer software for creating and managing a computer desktop; downloadable computer software for use as a graphical user interface; downloadable computer software for word processing, database management, and use as a spreadsheet
None of which this tablet system falls under other since this isn't "downloadable computer software". And:
Computer software development; computer software design; computer programming for others; technical consulting services in the field of computer software; licensing of intellectual property
Nor this.
I know this will not be popular of me to say, but this looks like IP trolling.
Re: (Score:2)
How would this be infringement? GNOME's trademark lists only the following goods and services:
Downloadable computer software tools and libraries used for the development of other software applications; downloadable computer software development tools; downloadable computer software for creating and managing a computer desktop; downloadable computer software for use as a graphical user interface; downloadable computer software for word processing, database management, and use as a spreadsheet
None of which this tablet system falls under other since this isn't "downloadable computer software". And:
Unless they are developing on the target tablet then it is...
Re: (Score:2)
Unless they are developing on the target tablet then it is...
No one is going to be doing that and even if they were that would be a humongous stretch as their mark is clearly for desktop computers not tablets.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Unless they're burning the software into ROMs, it IS downloadable to the device, hence covered by the term "downloadable computer software for use as a graphical user interface ... database management", because a PoS needs to have a GUI and to interface with a database.
And even if they're developing on the target tablet, they still have to move the final image to each tablet (unless they do a make on each one individually, which I can't see them doing).
I'm not a fan of gnome since they screwed up, but the
Re: (Score:2)
This isn't a patent. Technical details like that do not matter. What matters is how the name is used when it is marketed. If they are marketing it as 'a point of sale system', the fact that the software is downloaded is immaterial, what matters is the likelyhood of a consumer thinking that the POS system has been made by the GNOME desktop people.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Any software that can be copied and installed over a network is "downloadable".Groupon's hardware product is a case for an iPad and I'll bet you their software is installed on those iPads over a network.
Groupon is applying for trademarks in a broad array of areas, such as "contact management software used to organize and retrieve customer contact information; electronic commerce and transaction applicatio [uspto.gov]
Re: (Score:2)
GroupOn's software is most definitely "downloadable", since it is most certainly installed over a network (and frankly, even a data transfer over cable will probably be legally seen as a "download"). An iPad is also certainly a "computer". The GroupOn software also most definitely is used as a "Graphical user interface". So there now exists a second downloadable computer GUI software called "Gnome" which is also being agressively trademarked by GroupOn.
What happens when GNOME the desktop environment eventua
Let lawyers do it free, in exchange for % damages? (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't understand. It seems that there is a clear-cut case for GNOME, that should guarantee victory.
How come in the USA with its huge surplus of lawyers, they aren't some willing to take the case for free, in exchange for a percentage of damages against a publicly traded company like GroupOn? I am surprised that a publicly traded company would take such a risk which could diminish shareholder value.
Or it only scumbags like SCO/Novel which are allowed to sue?
Re: (Score:3)
It seems that there is a clear-cut case for GNOME, that should guarantee victory.
In what way is it "clear-cut"? Their trademark registration does not involve goods and services that involve either tablets or PoS systems.
Re: (Score:3)
Their trademark registration does not involve goods and services that involve either tablets or PoS systems.
In what way is a tablet not a computer?
Re: (Score:2)
It seems that there is a clear-cut case for GNOME, that should guarantee victory.
In what way is it "clear-cut"? Their trademark registration does not involve goods and services that involve either tablets or PoS systems.
Gnome's trademark is for "software for creating and managing a computer desktop" which a PoS definitely is.
Gnome's trademark is also for "software for use as a GUI" which again clearly describes a PoS.
A PoS is definitely a GUI, a rather simplistic one but definitely a gui. The fact that gnome also runs on multiple tablets
and has also been previously deployed as a PoS should only strengthen their case. It seems very clear-cut to me.
Re: (Score:2)
A POS is most certainly NOT "software for creating and managing a desktop". A POS is a thing used to make sales transactions.
A POS is not "software for use as a GUI". A POS is a thing used to make sales transactions.
Is a house 'clearly' a hammer just because a hammer was used to build it? Is a house 'clearly' a nail just because it contains nails?
Re: (Score:2)
Both are software and a tablet is most definitely a computer.
Re:Let lawyers do it free, in exchange for % damag (Score:4, Informative)
How come in the USA with its huge surplus of lawyers, they aren't some willing to take the case for free, in exchange for a percentage of damages against a publicly traded company like GroupOn?
Because, if GNOME prevails, there wouldn't be damages, just the rejection of Groupon's trademark applications.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It may seem clear cut to you, but it does not seem so to me nor several other contributors.
A Trademark does not provide a universal protection for the word, only within a limited, named, commercial field. Sun Oil and Sun Computers co-existed using the name Sun. Gnome has trademarked the word for software and seoftware related services. Groupon's tablet is not software. No overlap.
Re: (Score:2)
Try to create a computer hardware brand called Windows, advertise your new Windows machine and tell me how many seconds it lasts until you have Microsoft's lawyers on your ass. The criteria is commercial confusion and a system called Gnome is very confusingly similar to a point of sale system using GNOME the desktop environment. Me, not knowing too much of POS systems would probably think that's a GNOME spin-off. If they complain about their shitty Gnome system, I might say "Yeah should have gone with KDE"
Re: (Score:2)
Windows is a bad example. Just look a the history of Lindows/Linspire. Microsoft paid for the name to be changed to Linspire.
Re: (Score:2)
Groupon's tablet is not software. No overlap.
That isn't true. They're calling the tablet's software "Gnome(TM)" as well:
Groupon (www.groupon.com) today announced Gnome, a new tablet-based platform...
"When it's complete, Gnome will serve as an operating system..."
Groupon Launches Gnome(TM) — A Tablet Solution that Helps Merchants Run Their Business and Connect with Customers [groupon.com]
Even if they were carefully using the name to refer to just the table rather than a "platform" (which would also describe GNOME(TM)), just imagine the hilarity which would ensue if some random company decided to market a "Windows(TM) tablet" without first clearing it with Microsoft(TM). Also note that there are existing Point-of-Sale terminals running the GNOME(TM) desktop environment.
Re: (Score:2)
Priorities (Score:4, Interesting)
So.... now they suddenly care about their users.
Re: (Score:2)
Does Groupon know what it is taking on? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You could cause a lot of damage to Groupon personally. If their board of directors read your post they might all die laughing.
Re: (Score:2)
At least one Gnome committer works for Groupon Engineering.
GNOME is the mascot for Travelocity ... (Score:2)
... I saw that on Amazing Race way before I saw this article.
I think we know who has dibs on GNOME.
Huh? What trademark? (Score:5, Insightful)
Thought they already changed the name of the desktop environment to MATE
English word (Score:2)
You shouldn't be able to trademark any word that's commonly used in the English language to mean something entirely different than the product in question. Especially one that's likely been in use for hundreds of years like "Gnome"
Don't waste your money (Score:2, Informative)
Gnome is a poorly managed charity which has diverted most of its revenue away from its chartered purpose (as listed in its IRS Form 990) to become a SJW cause. According to its 2013 990 report, Gnome had $506,477 in expenses, while having only $201,034 in revenue. It has high administrative costs -- the pay of the executive director was $91,180 plus another $56,111 in compensation from the organization and other outside sources. The amount spent on its biggest event promoting actual free software, GUADEC, c
Shame Groupon! (Score:2)
Trademarks (Score:2)
On to a loser.
Gnome is a generic word, so we'll just lose all trademark ability.
Just being in "computer-related" trademarks isn't broad enough to cover everything from POS down to specific desktop environments. If they used "For GNOME" or based it on GNOME or were creating a desktop environment called Gnome, then yes, possibly.
But really, this is nothing more than Apple Computers vs Apple Records.
what's the point? (Score:3)
It looks like GNOME has long outlived its usefulness of working around Qt being under an unsuitable license way back when KDE was the de facto standard DE. With its current contributions of pouring fuel onto the fire of the init system debate and now wanting to fund a pissing match over trademarks, it looks like the project is doing more harm than good.
Travelocity? (Score:2)
In other news... (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
I think it's one of the best ideas to hit the web in the last ~5 years. Win for small businesses. Win for cheap-ass consumers. Well implemented. What's your beef?
Non-issue (Score:2)
GNOME stands for (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
GNU Network Object Model Environment
It's only recursive if you are dumb enough to expand GNU for no apparent reason.
Re: (Score:2)