Hewlett-Packard Admits To International Bribery and Money Laundering Schemes 139
First time accepted submitter CP (1315157) writes "Hewlett-Packard has admitted to [bribery and money laundering] in order to profiteer off of lucrative government contracts in Russia, Poland, and Mexico, according to court documents. HP's guilty plea carries with it a $108 million penalty — a combination of SEC penalties, as well as criminal fines and forfeitures paid out to the Department of Justice. Thus far no criminal charges have been brought against American HP executives. The multi-agency investigation, which was conducted by multi-national law enforcement partners, the FBI, IRS, and SEC, has revealed kleptocracies in the three foreign governments and corruption and dishonesty among HP corporate fat cats."
Corporations are not people (Score:5, Insightful)
Corporations are not people. They don't make decisions. Executives make decisions.
Lock the bastards up.
Re: (Score:2)
Corporations are not people. They don't make decisions. Executives make decisions.
Lock the bastards up.
Hate to put it this way but considering the way HP has been failing so badly the past 5 years... saw it coming
Re:Corporations are not people (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Most of this happened longer than 5 years ago under different leadership. HP is still suffering from the mistakes of the past. HP was financially successful then but at a cost. This is the way people like Mark Hurd do business. Its all about short term gains. Being told your pay was being cut because of difficult times and it was necessary in order to survive, only to find out that 6 months later HP had record profits. That's why all the top performer's no longer work there.
So again, saw it coming
Re:Corporations are not people (Score:5, Insightful)
Then find the people responsible for the laundering and bribery five years ago and put them in jail.
Never happens, though. Two-tiered justice system. If you're rich, you get fined instead of going to jail. Just gotta make sure the government gets its beak wet. If you're poor, lock 'em up and throw away the key.
Re: (Score:2)
You got that right. The amounts hardly matter. A case where the bribes ran well into the hundreds of millions was simply dismissed altogether in the UK (because it would inconvenience the Saudis, who threatened to take their business elsewhere when pressed on this issue) and ended with a slap on the wrist (relative to the sheer scale of the crimes) in the US.
source [wikipedia.org].
Re: (Score:3)
$108 million in fines for HP, but when Halliburton was caught handing out over $100 million to Nigerian officials while Cheney was CEO there wasn't even an investigation in the US (and I think the suit in France eventually evaporated while he was VP).
Really, this is not likely to change the way HP or anyone else of that size do business. First, it is very unlikely that the fines amount to more than the profit generated by those sales. More importantly, the fines come long after the people involved have
Re: (Score:2)
GM is coming up with the same excuses. Nobody is accountable because the corporation went through bankruptcy. 13 people dead and many injured, and they are telling people to make their keychains lighter.
Long time ago, different leadership, company cannot be held accountable, blah blah.
Re: (Score:2, Redundant)
In federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Agree,
It wasn't the shareholders that did the bribing. Yet they're the ones that are going to be penalized. Everyone with a401(k) is essentially bribing the US government with the settlement to keep these executives from going to jail.
Re: (Score:2)
It wasn't the shareholders that did the bribing. Yet they're the ones that are going to be penalized.
In the end the shareholders might come out ahead, depending on how much HP "profiteered" in the first place.
Re:Corporations are not people (Score:4, Insightful)
Most likely one of the conditions of the settlement is that the executives are not prosecuted for their transgressions.
And the executives will have the fine paid from the corporate funds... business as usual.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Corporations are not people (Score:5, Informative)
Really.
Has there ever been a single documented case in the whole of history where the shareholders have ever successfully (or even unsuccessfully, for that matter) sued a company because the company wasn't doing enougl illegal stuff to bolster profits?
Re: (Score:1)
What makes you think bribing people in Russia is illegal?
Far as I can tell, it's pretty much part of doing business over there....
Re: (Score:1)
Not just in Russia, that's for sure.
Re: (Score:1)
I got asked by a CBP officer on one of the occasions I came in to the US last year if I paid bribes in India (I think it was at ORD).
I answered him honestly (I'm neither American nor Indian) to which he replied that I was brave for doing business there and sent me on my way.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Really.
Has there ever been a single documented case in the whole of history where the shareholders have ever successfully (or even unsuccessfully, for that matter) sued a company because the company wasn't doing enougl illegal stuff to bolster profits?
Interesting question. My guess would be no, for who would pursue expensive litigation on a premise so outrageous. On the other hand, I'll bet that more than one corporate officer has been quietly dismissed for exactly that reason.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:3)
Corporations are not people. They don't make decisions. Executives make decisions.
Lock the bastards up.
Of course, one of the purposes of a corporation is to limit liability. That way, if you start a business and fail, the creditors can't come after you personally. This is often seen as a good thing, encouraging risk taking without the fear of personal ruin. I might generally agree with that. But we are now seeing this limit on liability being used to shield decision-makers from the consequences of their decisions. This is especially true if the company is politically connected. What large company isn't
Re: (Score:3)
No, corporations exist to protect the OWNERS, not the executives or the board. In criminal cases the government is perfectly capable of prosecuting the individuals who committed or ordered others to commit crimes.
Re: (Score:2)
They quite often are the owners at least in part.
Re:Corporations are not people (Score:4, Insightful)
And this is the problem, isn't it? Corporations shield corporate officers from criminal prosecution. The is the reform that needs to happen in the U.S., and the world.
Criminal acts perpetrated by corporate agents need to be prosecuted. The agents, and their managers, up to the top level held responsible and subject to the criminal penalties.
Or, at the very least, if we're going to continue to wrong-headed assertion that "corporations are people", then corporations need to be held accountable. If the "corporation" commits a crime that a human would be sentenced to a prison term for, that corporation should be stopped from doing business for the time of the sentence. No production. No trade. No accounts receivable/payable activity allowed. Dead stop.
Corporate acts that result in human deaths, means the corporation gets the equivalent sentencing, whatever the normal human sentence is.
Re: (Score:1)
I agree that corporations need to be held accountable for their actions, but imagine what could happen if we do what you suggest.
Let's say it's your bank. Your ATM card, credit card, check book are now all useless. You can't pay your bills. You can't buy groceries.
Or maybe it's your power company. If they're not allowed to produce, your lights go out. All of the food in your refrigerator goes bad. You don't have heating/air conditioning. You may not have hot water to bathe in.
Or what if it was your e
Re: (Score:2)
Corporations are legally people. If a corporation commits a crime, it's corporate charter should be locked up for a few decades, and the corporation's freedoms should be limited to that given any other inmate. Do this, and suddenly you'll see a flood of individuals being held personally responsible.
$108 million penalty (Score:4, Insightful)
That equates out to like a $5 fine for those outside of the corporate bubble...
Re:$108 million penalty (Score:5, Insightful)
Even inside the corporate bubble it's actually less than what a teenager could get for sharing a few music files with his friends.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
How about killing the lobbyists? Would that solve the problem? If that drives the lobbyists underground, kill the senators... :\
No, it would not. Others would take their place. And if enough were killed it would bring the power of the state down on you.
Re:$108 million penalty (Score:5, Informative)
HP's annual revenue is on the order of $100Bn, so $108m is about 0.1% of their income. The median US household income is about $40,000, so this would be equivalent to you receiving a $40 fine.
For international bribery and money laundering.
Re: (Score:2)
HP's annual revenue is on the order of $100Bn, so $108m is about 0.1% of their income.
Revenue and income are two different things. Last year their revenue was $112B. Their income was $5B.
HP 2013 Financial Report [marketwatch.com]
OK, $800 then (Score:1)
Not that it looks better now. $800 for bribery and money laundering
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
However, in this case "household income" is pretty equivalent to a corporation's revenue. When someone asks how much I make a year, I don't subtract all the money I spend and tell them how much I have left over.
Re: (Score:2)
However, in this case "household income" is pretty equivalent to a corporation's revenue. When someone asks how much I make a year, I don't subtract all the money I spend and tell them how much I have left over.
So if a realtor sells a client's house for $500K, and earns a commission of 2%, then his income is $500K?
Re: (Score:2)
Only if he originally owned the home in the first place.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
I'm comparing gross to gross. If you want net-to-net, the quantity you probably want is the household discretionary income* which is about $20,000. HP were fined 2% of their net income which for our imaginary household is $400.
*After-tax income minus bills.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Play by the rules (Score:1)
Of course, when the rules are designed to sabotage you, it's no wonder that Huweii is growing. It's not all HP's ineptness.Yes, it's all greased in most of the world. Deal with it.
Re: (Score:2)
Yea, I am thinking that FCPA should probably be repealed.
And no charges will be filed (Score:3)
That's how justice works now in this third-world like corruption that governs business in the good 'ol USA.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
Ban HP products from sale in within the EU for a year. That's a proper and reasonable response.
Re: (Score:3)
So what? If the people charged with a crime ever go to Poland, this might actually mean something.
In the article (yeah, who bothers with that) you will note that it was several of the regional executives who were fired for bribes. They are not meaning the CEO level.
So yes, it is quite likely that some of those regional executives do live in the affected countries, and it will definitely mean something as they no longer have corporate ties to fund their defense.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
From TFA: "The Polish government has elected to charge several individuals — both from HP and the government — in criminal cases in an investigation related to the guilty plea from HP" . So charges in fact have been filed, just not in USA.
Kind of makes Fredrated's point, eh?
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Multitnationals refuse to do business is screwed up countries all the time. How much of a presence does Microsoft or Apple have in Zimbabwe?
If you want a concrete example, one incident that's actually pretty well known is Coca-Cola refusing to do business in India from 1977 to 1993 after the Janta government tried to extort the formula for Coke and tried to partially nationalize the company's Indian operations.
No subject. (Score:5, Informative)
It's cool if you want to take part of the story for the summary, but you dropped out an important part.
The Original:
Hewlett-Packard has admitted to creating and using slush funds for bribes, money laundering, and clandestine “bag of cash” handoffs in order to profiteer off of lucrative government contracts in Russia, Poland, and Mexico, according to court documents.
In most of the world... (Score:2)
That's called business. In many places such bribes, and expenditures are just simply part of business. Those in government get paid low wages. The take is considered acceptable as long as its within reason.
And many places like Eastern Europe, Asia, S. America. You're not building an office building without bribes.
Re: (Score:3)
oh.. ok. It's all right then. Never mind.
Re: (Score:2)
There is a danger the prevalence of corruption in big business and government will inure us all to expect no better from them, but those folks still paying attention should maintain their right to be outraged.
Even if most of the World were truly accepting of this bribery for business model, we are not beholden to lower our own fleeting morality
Re: (Score:2)
You missed the point and are being naive. Cultures and attitudes vary across the world - not every culture mirrors yours.
Comment removed (Score:4)
Re: (Score:3)
You missed the point and are being naive. Cultures and attitudes vary across the world - not every culture mirrors yours.
What does that have to do with US law? HP broke US law. They should be held to account for that. If your point is that HP couldn't do business in these countries without breaking US law, then perhaps HP shouldn't do business in these countries. However, from what I read, they broke the laws of these other countries as well. So it seems that this is not simply how business is conducted. I understand that you can't get a building built on Staten Island without the okay from the local boss. But that doe
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You're not building an office building without bribes.
Actually, the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act takes that into account.
They can pay people when it is made to an official to expedite his performance of the duties he is already bound to perform.
Walmart almost got in trouble for that a few years back for building permits, but since they claimed the buildings would eventually be built anyway rather than swaying from a yes/no position, everything went away.
This wasn't a normal "grease payment". A grease payment for a building permit is more like how you might
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
That's called business. In many places such bribes, and expenditures are just simply part of business. Those in government get paid low wages. The take is considered acceptable as long as its within reason.
And many places like Eastern Europe, Asia, S. America. You're not building an office building without bribes.
Right, as far as I understand it, you will not get business without bribes. However, thanks to Foreign Corrupt Practices Act this is illegal for US companies. Wat do?
From what I hear, it's ideal to partner with a local firm to place the bid. Said local partner firm will charge you various "consulting fees" and you don't ask questions when you pay these invoices to your partner firm. I mean, who knows what they are doing? You are relying on them for local expertise, after all.
Surprise, you win contracts with
and this is (Score:2)
news?
this shit is infuriating (Score:5, Insightful)
to someone who lives, on a a daily basis, with the discrimination and stigma of being a convicted felon for minor drug offenses, these kind of articles piss me off to no end.
these corporate douchebags can blatantly break federal, state, and international laws and not even lose their jobs, where people like me who got caught with some recreational substance see their entire careers and life go into the toilet.
fuck those HP crooks, AND the DOJ they rode in on.
Re: (Score:2)
Sometimes those criminals are even made governor of a state.
Rick Scott...
Re: (Score:2)
It reminds me of celebrities who can royally fuck up their lives with drugs and alcohol and still have an industry of enablers desperate to throw millions of dollars at them.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I would say you should read The Divide [amazon.com], but you're already living it.
I sincerely hope you're able to escape your past and find peace and happiness.
Re: (Score:1)
a convicted felon for minor drug offenses
Which is it? Felon or minor drug offense, because it can't be both. Possession is a misdemeanor. Intent to sell is a felony. I seriously doubt your sob story.
Re: (Score:2)
Which is it? Felon or minor drug offense, because it can't be both. Possession is a misdemeanor. Intent to sell is a felony. I seriously doubt your sob story.
seriously doubt this then buddy...
05-2008-CF-XXXXX-AXXX-XX DRUGS REOPEN DISP 03/20/2008 STATE VS [NOPE] DEFENDANT (1) 09/16/19XX ABCDEF
Cnt Record No. Charge Dt Statute Charge Disp Dt Final Disp Citation No.
2 1 03/19/2008 893.13.1.F-T POSSESSION OF HEROIN 04/17/2013 GUILTY 20116366GLK
3 1 03/19/2008 POSSESSION OF ALPRAZOLAM XANAX 04/12/2011 DISPOSED BY PROSECUTOR 20116367GLK
4 1 03/19/2008 POSS OF METHYLENEDIOXYM
DUI (Score:2)
If I am an employer I will look past the possession part, but the DUI, driving w/ license suspended etc probably call for some questioning of judgement.
Re: (Score:1)
So you were DUI (enough right there for me to pass you up for a job as I don't think you're a good person putting peoples lives at risk on the road) and 20 grams is certainly enough for any court to believe you had intent to sell it. Besides, you knew it was illegal but did it anyway. You now want to blame society for your stupidity.
Couple all of that with your obvious lack of intelligence and for the life of me I can't figure out why no one would want to hire you
Re: (Score:1)
Couple all of that with your obvious lack of intelligence and for the life of me I can't figure out why no one would want to hire you
Your blatant lack of empathy combined with a seemingly non-existent intention to give people a second chance - they may have changed a lot since the transgressions in the past - is depressing. Behavior such as yours makes things worse. I hope I have gravely misunderstood what you actually stand for.
For starters, he expresses no remorse. It's blame blame blame
So no, he isn't hirable under any circumstances. Neither are you from your attitude.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
People don't like flopping in sports. Sure guys that flop look like douchebags, but they are just taking advantage of the rule. So change the rules!
The corporate douchebags work VERY hard to influence lawmakers to pass laws that go easy on them....We unwashed masses do not do our due diligence....ie vote these crooked lawmakers out and elect officials who w
Re: (Score:2)
THREE FELONIES A DAY (Score:2)
http://www.threefeloniesaday.c... [threefeloniesaday.com]
I guess you remember every single law that was being enacted huh?
Big Government shill like you is the exact reason why Hitler, Mao and Stalin came to power.
Re: (Score:2)
Really, Greece less corrupt than Poland!!! You are on the crack pipe mate. The Corruption perceptions index 2012 has Poland scoring 58 and ranked 41 in the world, where as Greece manages just 36 and is ranked 94. Greece has the worst corruption problem in the whole of the E.U. including all the ex communist states. Greece can only dream of having as little corruption as Poland.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
even with the better offer they will be excluded if they don't provide some "oil" (that's how we call it in Greece)
The rest of the world calls it "Greece". Or was it "grease"? I wonder if there's a connection...
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:1)
Yes. It's wildly illegal to give or accept bribes in the US though the bit about failing to prevent it is left to the vagueries of the justice system. The main point of our anti-bribery laws is that jurisdiction more or less doesn't matter. I.e. if you go to Egypt on business and bribe a customs official to let you in on a tourist visa and get caught and charged, when you get home you'll be charged with bribing a foreign official even though the crime was not committed in the US.
Unequivocally, it is ille
Oh Boy (Score:2)
Here comes to layoff to make up estimated $200m shortfall in revenue. (Management will stay the same so we can increase revenue further)
Different justice systems... (Score:2)
Matt Taibbi from Rolling Stone was on the Daily Show a few nights back, pimping his book The Divide [amazon.com]. This is what happens in our two-tiered justice system. Steal big, and maybe you have to give some of the money you stole to the government, but no jail time. Steal small, jail.
Really, it comes down to whether or not you can bribe the government. So long as the government's gettin' its beak wet, they don't really care about international bribery and money laundering.
I have an idea (Score:2)
Vote Slashmydots for president, 2016 - "We'll bomb our way to a better tech world."
Re: (Score:2)
No, not that Homer (Score:1)
This is why people in those countries go into government in the first place -- so you can ge in the way of things so you can get paid to get back out of the way.
This happens in the US, too, but not as much (or, a lot more, based on dollars, but with a much more polished meme cover story).
"Well, look at that. Those oil or pharmas are having unconscionable profits agin', Homer!"
Do not hassle the people giving bribes (Score:1)
That would be wagging the dog. Nail the ones who take them. They are the criminals.
$108 million fine... (Score:2)
Employee ethics training time again! (Score:2)
Because every time an HP leader breaks the law the employees must take the training.
Globalization (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
This.
If its not illegal in the country the act was committed in, why should we bother with it? Or maybe Russia and Mexico should start inditing companies for participating in our corrupt patent system.
Re: (Score:2)
Why stop child killing, pedos traveling internationally to lands that don't care, recording their deeds and bringing the recordings home for later enjoyment.
Because possession of that material in this jurisdiction is illegal.
Do you actually know of any countries where this sort of activity is legal?
An alternative issue is what if it is only 'legal' due to the illegal activities of the company involved. See a number of large corporates stoking civil wars to get law changes through with a change of government.
As long as the civil war is won, the corporations activities are legal, or are pardoned by the new government. But how is this different than contributing to the GOP to help them regain control of both legislative houses and then getting laws changed and current programs canceled?