Russia Bans Bitcoin 207
mask.of.sanity writes "Russia has banned digital currency Bitcoin under existing laws and dubbed use of the crypto-currency as 'suspicious'. The Central Bank of Russia considers Bitcoin as a form of 'money substitute' or 'money surrogate' (statement in Russian) which is restricted under Russian law. However, unlike use of restricted foreign currencies, Bitcoin has been outright banned. The US Library of Congress has issued a report examining the regulatory approaches national financial authorities have taken to the currency."
Which, of course, really means... (Score:5, Funny)
...if they catch you running an illegal operation using Bitcoins, the necessary bribe to the authorities just got bigger.
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...if they catch you running an illegal operation using Bitcoins, the necessary bribe to the authorities just got bigger.
And be sure to pay it with bitcoin.
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To put it more succinctly: in Soviet Russia, money spends YOU!
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Well, to be honest, this is not a Left or Right problem, this is a problem with not understanding what crime actually is. Wearing a mask, during a crime is not a crime, or even an extension of crime. They added a penalty because it makes it harder to identify the criminals. Boo fucking hoo.
But people want to punish the evildoers .... so we get crappy laws that make crimes that aren't crimes.
Re:Which, of course, really means... (Score:5, Insightful)
Speaking of libertarians. Where are all the property-is-everything, guns-and-freedom, company-defending people now? My opinion on the beta is, yes, it sucks. But do you guys really think you own this site?
No. They are owned by the site. They are the product, sold to ad agencies, and the site is the manufacturing facility. The Beta is a new manufacturing process line being constructed, and the complaints are product being rejected by quality control. If the issues are not resolved by the time the new line goes live, manufacturing volume will suffer, customers will not have anything to purchase, and profits will suffer.
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Speaking of libertarians. Where are all the property-is-everything, guns-and-freedom, company-defending people now?
Being libertarian doesn't mean you defend everything that companies do. It just means you think that if Dice wants to treat us like we're irrelevant there shouldn't be a law against it. It certainly doesn't mean those in the community can't express their negative opinion of Dice's behavior, boycott the site, etc.
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Here we are now (Score:3, Insightful)
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Wasn't that a Twilight Zone episode? Maybe Rod Serling will come in at the end with a little narration to tie it all together for us.
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The introduction of Beta is like a nuclear power plant disaster where the site is currently a ghost town with no real discussion anymore but lamenting souls crying out the pain.
Really, I'm pretty sure the former residents of Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, Fukushima would beg to differ and point out that the beta is nothing like nuclear power plant disaster.
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Really, I'm pretty sure the former residents of Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, Fukushima would beg to differ and point out that the beta is nothing like nuclear power plant disaster.
Save your outrage for sometime in which it is appropriate. Shaking your fist here won't change the fact that Dice has effectively nuked slashdot.
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Really, I'm pretty sure the former residents of Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, Fukushima would beg to differ and point out that the beta is nothing like nuclear power plant disaster.
Save your outrage for sometime in which it is appropriate. Shaking your fist here won't change the fact that Dice has effectively nuked slashdot.
I'm not outraged. While I see some issues with the beta, and have reported them, personally, I'm ambivalent to it. Basically with classic or beta, I can get the information I am looking for.
I think it's kind of like KDE 4, Gnome 3 or even Unity. People don't like change and they are quick to condemn it (although in fairness the developers of KDE 4.0 said it wasn't production ready). But for all of the hoopla over them, people sure seem to be using them. Change is inevitable and the whole "F*ck Beta" approa
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Change is inevitable. So is death. And in this case the change for the worst seems to be bringing the death of the community.
Also, I don't think that "counter productive" applies here. This looks suspiciously like a change driven by ulterior reasons; perhaps Slashdot Beta is some Business Genius's personal pet project, perhaps someone at Dice wants to shutdown Slashdot for political reasons, whatever. But
Fuck Bitcoin (Score:3, Funny)
I mean, err, Fuck Beta
Gay? (Score:4, Funny)
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Now that russians have banned bitcoin, Western press and media will rush to praise this currency and write statements about how russians want to destroy the western and are intolerants.
Western governments might have to admit they want to do as evil as the russians have done regarding Bitcoin or let people escape their monetary control with the propaganda of the "freedom and liberty in the western "
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In Soviet Russia, You make Bitcoins gay!
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Putin and Beta (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Putin and Beta (Score:5, Insightful)
Somewhat authoritarian?
Isn't that a lot like a little bit pregnant?
This isn't a Beta post (Score:5, Funny)
In the '80s Reagan banned Soviet Russia
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In 80's Russia, You ban Rayguns!
Pussy Riot joining Putin in ban... (Score:2)
That is an insult (Score:4, Insightful)
The Central Bank of Russia considers Bitcoin as a form of 'money substitute'
That is an insult. Regular money can be made "at will" by banks and the fact that it is only handed to society for usury ("interest") and some real-value things (like houses) as security, makes it drain any society at no cost to the banks themselves. The funny thing is that all banks can create money, but private persons are criminals when they do exactly the same.
Bitcoins do not come with built-in usury and cannot be made infinitely. Bitcoins do not have built-in discrimination about who can abuse who. Bitcoins are more than a money substitute: Bitcoins make sense. Our current money system does not.
Re:That is an insult (Score:5, Insightful)
The Central Bank of Russia considers Bitcoin as a form of 'money substitute'
That is an insult. Regular money can be made "at will" by banks and the fact that it is only handed to society for usury ("interest") and some real-value things (like houses) as security, makes it drain any society at no cost to the banks themselves. The funny thing is that all banks can create money, but private persons are criminals when they do exactly the same.
Bitcoins do not come with built-in usury and cannot be made infinitely. Bitcoins do not have built-in discrimination about who can abuse who. Bitcoins are more than a money substitute: Bitcoins make sense. Our current money system does not.
Money is whatever people use to pay for the exchange of goods and services. In prison, cigarettes are money. When the Europeans first set foot in North America, they gave the natives various trinkets in exchange for goods. The Dutch purchased the island of Manhattan for about $24US worth of beads. Money is whatever people say is money.
Re: That is an insult (Score:2)
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We've had sad experience though in some people pulling scams or abusing employees with fake types af money. So we've made laws about what can and can't be used as tender to protect ourselves from these wrongs.
Which turned out to be a mistake, because the use of fake-money scams has never been even approximated by anybody other than governments.
You do know that the Federal Reserve created a minimum of $17 Trillion new Dollars during "the crisis", right? That's the entire productive value of three hundred mi
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FTFY
> When the Europeans first set foot in North America, they gave the natives smallpox
> infected blankets in exchange for land.
No, they didn't give them that in exchange for the land. The land cost $24. The smallpox and the like was for free.
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Bitcoins are more than a money substitute: Bitcoins make sense.
Ah yes, a currency based on wasting electricity makes sense. What color is the sky on your planet, the planet in which you need more emissions to thicken your atmosphere? Because here on Earth, Bitcoin is fucking offensive and stupid.
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Ah yes, a currency based on wasting electricity makes sense.
What sort of currency does not require energy to create? Include all individuals required in ancillary roles for any given currency in your answer.
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> Ah yes, a currency based on wasting electricity makes sense.
So those precious metals deep underground just magically appeared on the surface?
Those printing presses, dyes, ink, and paper just magically transported themselves from the outside trees, other plants, and/or animals??
Methinks you need to re-think what you are railing against.
As I explained before, there are 3 levels to understand what money IS:
- the exchange of physical things aka barter,
- a token the exchange of a common unit (physical or di
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It's not a question of whether Bitcoin costs something; it's whether the inefficiencies associated with Bitcoin (the electricity and hardware costs to sustain the network) are more or less than the inefficiencies associated with other currencies.
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Beta (Score:3)
They've also banned /. beta. Not everything His Shirtlessness does is terrible.
What would Ronald Raegan do? (Score:5, Funny)
I believe he would say, "Mr. Gorbachev tear down this beta."
#IamSlashdot
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Positive effect of Beta (Score:5, Funny)
There is a serious benefit of Beta you are all ignoring. Productivity around the world is increasing due to people preferring to work instead of reading Slashdot.
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actually my work is suffering, because I cant stop reading all the beta comments
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If Beta stays and "classic" goes away, the Nerds That Matter will have so much free time practical cold fusion will be a reality within a week.
Example of things to come (Score:2, Troll)
If you can't get "Close and don't show me again" right, then you shouldn't be coding a whole new Slashdot. I see that fucking notice every time I come here and click "DON'T SHOW ME AGAIN" each time. Oh, yeah: FUCK BETA.
Excellent -- slows the US down (Score:3)
Russia banning Bitcoin will have relatively little effect on the use of Bitcoin there since enforcement is highly selective and not dependant on established law.
OTOH if Russia bans it, the US (and its hangers-on) will have to think twice about banning Bitcoin. Heaven forbid the old foe gets it right, and first. Absent strong motivation, the US does not want to be seen as supporting Russia, particularly not ideologically on some matter of principle.
US will ban if they can't tax it (Score:2)
If the US can't tax it, they'll ban it. Right now the IRS goes after every source of personal income, whether it was earned in the US or in any other sovereign nation. Think about that. You're a US Citizen living outside the US. Any income generated by you is subject to US taxation even though you may have not earned the money in the US and you're not living there. So if Bitcoin can't be tracked and taxed, ultimately the US govt. will ban its use because it goes contrary to their money-sucking dreams.
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Say I mine for silver as a business in a big plot of land, zoned to make it legal. I mine tons of ricks and those rocks have lots of silver in them. I let the rocks stay as rocks as long as i want. Can I be taxed by the IRS on the amount of silver in the rocks that sit in a pile? The silver amount hasn't been realized. They are a pile of rocks (raw material). They have no value until i separate the silver. The silver can be stored in a closet. It has no value until it is realized as a form of currency
bitcoin is an exchange mecanism (Score:4, Informative)
Indeed, bitcoin is a protocol used to push around numerical value (which are counted is bitcoins, BTC).
Your IRS or any other tax service shouldn't tax bitcoin, just the same way that they don't tax your paypal account (as is litteraly putting a tax on the e-mail address itself) nor (for a more extreme metaphore) put a tax on your credit cards (litteraly taxing the actual bit of plastic with a "Visa" or "Master card" logo on them).
Bitcoin protocol is a mean to exchange value (except that you don't directly push around any official currency, but instead you push BTC around and convert to/from BTC using exchanges, payment processors, etc.)
This is exactly the same as paypal is a service used to do online payment, and as a credit card is a mean to do payment.
At the end of the day, a merchant using BTC as mean of payment, will exchange them to a local currencies (USD, EUR, whatever is here around) usually in a completely automatic manner (using a payment processor such as coinbase, bitpay, etc.)
So at the end of the day, a merchant will make revenue in local currency (USD, EUR) and that what the merchant has to declare as a revenue:
the flow of USD/EUR/etc. going to the merchant's bank account. The tax service shouldn't give a fuck is that money was conveyed using paper money at a cash register, or using commercial centralised payment methods like PayPal or MasterCard, or a distributed crypto-currency as bitcoin.
What matter is at the end of the day, a merchant made XXXX USD/EUR and has to pay taxes, social charges, inssurances, etc. from this amount.
Also, to the poster above: please stop spreading the disinformation that bitcoin can't be tracked. In fact, the whole security principle of bitcoin lies on the exact opposite: every single transaction is broadcasted to the whole network, so every single node is able to verify it.
The closest thing the bitcoin protocol has is "pseudonymity". Identity of parties in a transaction aren't directly disclosed in the clear:
- it's not 'Mr XXX, living at adress AAA' has sent bitcoins to 'Ms. YYYY living at BBBB'"
- it's more like 'account [public key 1]' has sent bitcoins to 'account [public key 2]'
On the other hand, if Ms. YYYY happens to be a merchant, she has the name and address of Mr. XXX and can map it to a public address. Government have enough ressouces to do such mapping on a large scale and completely remove any anonymity.
But you're shielded from your neighbours accidentally discovering that you spent money at a sex-shop.
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Here is my view on it. I am not a CPA, so do not take this to IRS.
Goods cannot be taxed before they are sold. Your rocks with silver are safe. You may have them registered as inventory, or as raw product, or anything in between, but until your business sells them for MONEY you do not owe tax.
That would be the same case with BTC. However recently the US Government acknowledged that BTC is MONEY. This means that once you receive a Bitcoin in your possession, you may owe tax on the profits (if there are a
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Usually, income taxes in the US are on actual dollars made, and producing or acquiring something with the intent to sell it in the future is not taxable. If you start using some other sort of currency to buy and sell stuff, then that does become taxable. If you sell some good or service for BTC and convert it into cash, that cash is taxable, but not necessarily the BTC. The IRS will get its cut when you convert the BTC to cash. If you sell something for BTC and then buy something with that BTC, then th
It's a kleptocracy (Score:3)
Banning Bitcoin will make it much easier for the kleptocrats in control to take their cut.
And step 3? (Score:2)
No profit.
R.I.P. Slashdot (Score:4, Informative)
A missed opportunity (Score:2)
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One of the best features of Slashdot is that what's said remains said. You can make a new account and start over, but you can't take credit for the good while editing away the bad.
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Still, a 5 minute edit window isn't going to hurt anyone.
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The edit window should be configurable in Preferences. Once you click "Submit" the comment is posted ... but only for you. You can see it in the context, reread it, change if necessary... (editing restarts the timer.) Once the timer expires, the comment is posted for everyone.
This would be a function that is available ony to logged in users, since it's much easier to follow the identity with a cookie. AC comments are published instantly, and they cannot edit them (because they cannot be easily linked to
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Well, it's not over until the fat lady sings. I wouldn't set a death date yet. But I have to say the site is quite messed up right now with all the comments talking only about the suckiness of Beta.
I do see two problematic things:
1) They already asked feedback Oct 1, 2013 [slashdot.org] and didn't listen us. Why would they this time? "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
2) As you said, the Beta site is currently so far from something usable that they will have a lot of work ahead if they actually want
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For very small values of ready, no doubt.
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If you feel so strongly about this, why do you hide behind the anonymous coward?
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I think we should mark yesterday, February 6, 2014, as the day that Slashdot died.
Yesterday may be the day that the coroner declared the victim to be dead, but the fatal disease was contracted when Dice.com bought Slashdot. Slashdot is a vibrant community built around a tainted well, and Dice.com is the entity that poisoned that well.
Re:We get it you don't like the beta (Score:4, Insightful)
Honestly its been two days can we stop bitching about the fucking beta?
If the answers to these questions are "yes", there is a need to continue our picketing.
This better continue until the site is improved by scrapping Beta as the failed project it has proven itself to be, and until Shravan Goli [generalatlantic.com] has been replaced with someone who understands this particular business and why people (and thus advertisers) come here.
I care about Slashdot. A great deal. So much so that I don't want to see it run into the ground. Which is exactly what will happen with the Beta - it is broken by design, and cannot be "incrementally improved" until it works as well as the flawed system I use now.
As long as the managers are unwilling to see this, shout it. Shout it louder. Don't let Slashdot die due to someone's pride and a vision of "unified" experience from someone who doesn't even understand that this is a contributor site, not an audience site, and the fundamental difference between the two.
You have the power to change the site.
You do not have the power to change the contributors.
When the two clash, keep in mind what people come here for, which attracts advertisers. Hint: It's not to look at the design or headlines.
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I've been thinking that doing everything the old site does isn't a feature.
Being able to link to individual comments and showing your score, replies and a link back to your comments in the user space is important, but things like showing UID i don't think are.
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Being able to link to individual comments and showing your score, replies and a link back to your comments in the user space is important, but things like showing UID i don't think are.
Being able to tell Bill and BiII apart is useful. Especially if one is a trusted old community member and the other is an impersonator.
Before removing a feature, it behoves one to ask why it was put in place.
Re:We get it you don't like the beta (Score:4, Informative)
Proven track record innovating and improving iconic websites
(Slashdot.org,
She's the one claiming to be responsible for this fuck-up. She's the one who needs nuking from orbit (it's the only way to be sure).
Alice doesn't work here anymore (Score:2)
As I believe was pointed out in other comments, I think Alice Hill no longer has any association with Slashdot. In other words, she's an early adopter of "FUCK BETA". >:(
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Fuck Gaurav Kuchhal the fuckup, Head of Product at Slashdot.
http://www.diceholdingsinc.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=211152&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1781836&highlight=
That press release still mentions and quotes Alice Hill the fuckup. However it positions here clearly in "DICE" rather than Slashdot-anything.
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No
Re:We get it you don't like the beta (Score:5, Insightful)
Honestly its been two days can we stop bitching about the [expletive] beta?
Bitching about the beta actually still serves a useful purpose. It demonstrates that the primary use of the moderation system here is to push personal agendas rather than to objectively rate comments. Objectively speaking, your comment either should be left alone, because your point is obvious, or it should be promoted to +1, because it's valid. However, in terms of the prevailing agenda, your comment actually deserves its demotion from 0 to -1.
Moderators, thanks demonstrating the enforcement of Slashorthodoxy. I'm not sure whether or not my own comment is orthodox, but if you disagree with me that moderators here push their own agenda, feel free to demote it.
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www.slashdottersinexile.org
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I can only agree. I was first put off a bit by the beta, but after using it for a while I find it to be an overall improvement compared to the classic theme.
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Okay, mod parent troll. I had my fun. Yes, I suspect astroturfing no, I don't know it's true.
Yes, I cannot use the betas or the mobile site with my phone.
No, I loathe JS.
Yes, it appears dice is going to take a massive hit because no, they won't back down, and no, they don't understand the concepts in the book "the tipping point".
No, I suspect nothing can replace it, but it appears slashdot is dead. No, there's really nothing else I want to see discussed here, which means soon I'll get tired of this and leav
Buggy (Score:2, Offtopic)
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In Soviet Beta, you in a Rush!
Re:I love the new Beta! (Score:4, Interesting)
Beta Hater Redux (Score:3)
I found the response acceptable. I find your self-righteous power-trip mob-raising rebuttal more objectionable. Enjoy your last few days here, and I'll enjoy each day after that.
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On the desktop the front page looks more modern, but when browsing topics I can practically fit the same amount of content into my window as before. I don't see how the beta style negatively impacts my browsing or the usability of Slashdot in any way. This whole beta protest is making me think that a large portion of Slashdot users are close-minded retarded assholes just itching for a reason to troll and spam. As soon as you voice a different opinion not in line with the "fuck beta protest" you get modded t
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On my desktop you can only fit about half as much content, and it has definitely negatively impacted usability. Also it's missing some key infrastructure changes that should have been top priority that were ignored for making it just seem more modern.
These are very good reasons to be angry about it.
Also, you are a cur.
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And yes, I hate that Beta-thing too. (Dear Slashdot, bury it soon.)
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Yeah I got points and I'm going to dump them all on posts like this. To hell with you Dice bastards voting everything down.
Smart. Encourage Dice to get rid of the Karma and point system. That will benefit everyone.
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If it's going to die, the quicker they kill it, the less painful it is, as long as there's a Perens or an OkianWarrior, or whoever, to provide a substitute.
Why would a Perens or an OklanWarrior want to mess with this whiny group of people? All that can be surmised is that if they did do it but not do exactly what slashdotters want they will get flamed and runned into the ground, too.
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Anyway, we're not whiny, we're loud and obnoxious, there's a difference. We were whiny between 6 months and 3 days ago, while beta was just this thing they were dicking about with. Whiny was useless.
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The more you tighten your grip, the more the Slashdot community will fall through your fingers.
(BTW, we are a community and not "a audience".)
By definition, you are an audience. Even the banner for slashdot states that it is news for nerds. So, not only are you an audience, you are a targeted audience. A community is a group that holds common values. If you want to propose that slashdot viewers are a community, what are the common values that bind all of the viewers?
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The more you tighten your grip, the more the Slashdot community will fall through your fingers.
(BTW, we are a community and not "a audience".)
By definition, you are an audience. Even the banner for slashdot states that it is news for nerds. So, not only are you an audience, you are a targeted audience. A community is a group that holds common values. If you want to propose that slashdot viewers are a community, what are the common values that bind all of the viewers?
I'd say it's because of 'News for Nerds' chosen by Nerds and then commented on by Nerds in a relatively information dense way. Once in a while if you mine the comments then you can learn something interesting and useful. If there isn't anything worth reading you may have a decent opportunity to *write* something meaningful. Like bitcoin mining it becomes more difficult as time progresses and you have to put more energy into it.
I don't know what slashdot values mean to anyone else, however I know what they
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A community is a group that holds common values. If you want to propose that slashdot viewers are a community, what are the common values that bind all of the viewers?
Bitching. Bitching is the common value that unites us. ;)
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what are the common values that bind all of the viewers?
For starters .. how about the near universal hatred of the Beta Site??
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But anyway, I'm not making the same mistake twice. I bet the Slashdot beta will be a fucking smash. No, not with the current crowd crowd of users, but with the Bitcoin loving, Justin Bieber listening crowd. Dice will make bank, I'm sure of it. Now, if only there was a way to cash in on this knowledge...
Heraclitus said that "The only thing that is constant is change." Slashdot isn't immune to that, so people have the choice to embrace the change and help make it better or to fight it and be left on the sidelines.
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The only thing that is constant is change, but few rejoice when the end comes. Slashdot might be old and decrepit, but it is still a piece of history from the Internet revolution, and for many of us a long-time companion. Given the personal and cultural significance, the tone of the comments is un
Interesting Analogy (Score:2)
The attention span of a goldfish is already catered to ubiquitously on the internet. There is no end to mono-brow entertainment.
High brow, intelligent forum discussion is the endangered species here.
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It's only an increase if you convert it to something useful, like real currency before the market crashes. Which it will. Bitcoin wasn't "designed" to do anything useful. It's a science fair experiment. As with many other prototypes, it got rolled into production without any thought whatsoever, and it is causing chaos. I wish the experiment well. Perhaps the lessons learned after the inevitable crash and burn will inform the next digital currency, which may actually succeed.
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so you've read the white paper, then, I presume.
You know, the one that described the use case for the design and the foresight and theories of application.
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Bitcoin wasn't "designed" to do anything useful.
Are you sure you know what bitcoin is? Comments like yours would say otherwise. There is a laundry list of what is useful about bitcoin. To deny they exist is bias or ignorance. You may have issues with it, but that doesn't make your comment true.
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Yep. I'm so stupid to increase my money by 4X in less than a year...
No you are stupid to gamble. You will not be so lucky next time.
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Yep. I'm so stupid to increase my money by 4X in less than a year...
You can always trade stocks and foreign currencies. BTC is just one kind of foreign currency. However this trading is just speculation; you do not produce anything new in the process, you do not enrich the planet with results of your labor. All that you do is you transfer money from pockets of less lucky (or less wise) people into your pockets (assuming that you are more lucky or more wise.)
Humanity would thank you far more if you inst
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The linked official press release simply reiterates that bitcoins are getting more wide use including criminal use. That the bitcoins are not legal tender. That bitcoins are not backed by anything or anybody but speculative interest and that bitcoin holders are not afforded legal protection of their property rights in respect of their bitcoin investments. Is the word "banned" being misused here?
From the translation:
In accordance with Art. 27 of the Federal Law "On the Central Bank of the Russian Federation", "the official currency (currency) of the Russian Federation is the ruble. Introduction on the territory of Russia and other monetary units issue money substitutes is prohibited. " Certain distribution received anonymous payment systems and kriptovalyuty, including the most famous of them - Bitcoin are money substitutes and can not be used by individuals and legal entities.
I'm pretty sure the ruskies would have a strict interpretation of "can not be used by individuals." Sounds like it's a ban.
I'll be interested to see if BTC can hold above $500 at the end of the day.
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