Ukrainian Protesters Receive Mass Text Message Ordering Them To Disperse 233
schneidafunk writes " Dear subscriber, you are registered as a participant in a mass disturbance.' was the message sent to thousands of protesters as a new law prohibiting public demonstrations went into effect."
From NYTimes: "... Protesters were concerned that the government seemed to be using cutting-edge technology from the advertising industry to pinpoint people for political profiling. Three cellphone companies in Ukraine ... denied that they had provided the location data to the government or had sent the text messages, the newspaper Ukrainskaya Pravda reported. Kyivstar suggested that it was instead the work of a 'pirate' cellphone tower set up in the area."
Re:Remember how the NSA is worse than the Stasi? (Score:5, Interesting)
the NSA is, on pro rata of the population, 20 times smaller than the Stasi.
Translation: It's okay, as long as we do it more efficiently.
they don't have any enforcement arm
Translation: Outsourcing is the new black.
they don't systematically create files on their citizens
Translation: It's not a file if you never look at it! And it's not systematic because... we... uh... use computers to do it!
Nor to they hire informant among the public.
Translation: Paying people is SO 1980. We have Facebook now.
they don't seem to be politically active
Translation: Outsourcing is the new black.
Re:Remember how the NSA is worse than the Stasi? (Score:5, Interesting)
> FUD. Pure and unstrained. You might consider that if we didn't shoot/bomb/torture so many people and left them the fuck alone, they might not hijack a plane and crash it into our buildings.
Those two things are not mutually exclusive, so I don't really know what's your point.
> Why have it in-house? What do you call an organization that prepares material for the Commander-In-Chief and supplies data to lawenforcement agencies? Do you imagine the the NSA operates in a magical box, all alone, cut off from the rest of the US government, and the US government has no desire to use their information?
I never said that they were completely isolated. But there clearly was a willingness to enforce a separation of dutie on this matter (which makes a lot of sense), this separation of duties has clearly influenced the relationships between these organisations, and this is also clearly a difference between the NSA and the Stasi (and I'm kind of surprise to see people jump on THIS difference in particular).
> Fucking jackboot licking shill
Three persons called me shill on this thread; the three were AC. Now, I'm sure it must feel very edgy from your POV, but trust me, you guys don't sound edgy at all. You guys sounds like excited dicks who would say anything for a reaction, and can't handle a real discussion when faced with someone calling your ignorance.
Re:In other Kiev news (Score:5, Interesting)
The mess started with Ukraine basically being forced to choose between economic deal with EU, or economic deal with Russia. Right now, they have a deal with Russia. Problem is that if they also make a deal with EU, it would allow exporters to basically push their EU>Russia exports which are extremely lucrative though Ukraine to avoid tariffs.
A very large part of Russia's budget comes from these tariffs, so Russia explicitly stated that it will not allow for such an obvious loophole, and that if Ukraine does make a deal with EU, current deal with Russia is off.
At the same time, Ukraine is effectively divided along the linguistic lines. About half the country speaks russian, and another half speaks ukrainian. Kiev is in the ukrainian-speaking region, so it's always a mess when a pro-russian speaking government is in power and does something that ukrainian speaking leaders don't like.
There are some other rather nasty issues, like the nature of current protests. Lviv, the home city of the current waves of protests is the home of extreme right movement in Ukraine, borderline nazi movement that wants to purge everyone ranging from russian-speaking minority to jewish and polish minorities. They have about 8% popular support across Ukraine but well in excess of 20% in their hometown of Lviv. They have been a very important power behind mobilizing the current protests, and they also appear to be the ones turning them violent.
Majority of those protesting just want a more EU-like rule. Less corruption, more wealth to the citizens. This is actually one thing that likely unites both the part of the nation protesting and one that is not - they all agree that government is corrupt and want better rule. It's just that pro-Western leaders that were in power for years before showed to be even more corrupt then current leadership, so options are pretty slim.
Also Eastern russian speaking part of the country is calm - it's actually industrialized and manufactures a lot of high tech things such as military helicopter engines for Russia's Mil helicopters. They have a very healthy export economy and they need good relations with Russia - Russia proposed an economic union similar to EU which would bring massive economic boon to that region. This is also why most of the Ukraine's oligarchs who own the heavy industries support the moves to approach Russia, and why they are against the EU deal - they need the current deal with Russia so that their heavy industry exports can continue. In light of the mess in Ukraine, Russia has already made some steps to isolate itself from potential fallout and parts shortage that breaking of their trade agreements with Ukraine would cause, such as laying down a new helicopter engine factory near St. Petersburg. This is very worrying for Ukrainian exporters located in the East for the obvious reasons.
On the other hand Western ukrainian speaking half is mainly agricultural, and of those exports, they want to send as much as possible to EU as it's a very lucrative market. Right now, tariffs keep that trade low, while on Russian market they have to compete with EU companies AND Asian ones. Russian agricultural market is very lucrative, but also extremely competitive and Ukraine doesn't really have the ultra-efficiency of EU competitors, nor extremely cheap labour of the Asian countries. The deal with EU would bring at least some potential prosperity to that part of the country as Ukraine would be able to supply cheap labour-based agricultural products to EU. It's highly unlikely that any of the high-tech exports would be allowed in EU however.
So there you have it. A country split among the linguistic, economic and ideological lines. And split is fairly even, right now it's something around 55% pro West and 45% pro East. No matter who wins in the current political struggle, half of the country will feel it lost. It's a mess. And in addition to that, no matter who it chooses economically, half of the country will likely get economically hit.
On a final note, t