Study Suggests Link Between Dread Pirate Roberts and Satoshi Nakamoto 172
wabrandsma writes "Two Israeli computer scientists say they may have uncovered a puzzling financial link between Ross William Ulbricht, the recently arrested operator of the Internet black market known as the Silk Road, and the secretive inventor of bitcoin, the anonymous online currency, used to make Silk Road purchases."
Weasel Words: (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Weasel Words: (Score:5, Insightful)
Unfortunately, the US government will probably try to find a way to do just that. If they can allege a link between Satoshi and DPR-or-Ulbrich, that gives them a better excuse to try to pry information out of anybody involved with Bitcoin, either through legal process in the US or through possibly-illegal wiretapping overseas.
... and if they do that ... (Score:2)
Unfortunately, the US government will probably try to find a way to do just that.
And that, will be a BOON to Bitcoin as a whole.
Re: Weasel Words: (Score:2)
Re:Weasel Words: (Score:5, Informative)
No, the evidence is really pretty clear. You can trace the history of any coin. Here's what they show:
* some extremely early coin, from parts of the block that virtually never has exchanged hands, found its way into Silk Road.
* It was a considerable amount, too.
This might be just the slip-up that unmasks the inventor(s) of the currency.
I'm not sure it was an investment, though, as the article suggests. I think Silk Road was profitable enough that they wouldn't really need an investment, at least not in the form of bitcoin.
Re:Weasel Words: (Score:5, Informative)
The guy who owned that transaction was already located. His name is Dustin and he is not Satoshi [reddit.com]. What's more, these transactions had aroused interest before, been researched, the guy who owned them was not really trying to hide his identity and publicly confirmed they were his. And all this was available just by doing a google search on the address in question.
This is the second time Shamir has associated his name with research which contains elementary mistakes, makes wild claims and is funded by the Citi Foundation (as in, Citibank). What is going on?
You keep using that name (Score:4, Funny)
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
When a person attempts to steal notorieity by using a famous name as a pseudonym, don't feed their ego (and ruin a good movie) by calling them the name they chose. Pick an unused name that implies disrepect to the person, and call them that. e.g. Inept Pirate Doofus.
Re:You keep using that name (Score:5, Funny)
A link between DPR and an early Bitcoiner (Score:5, Interesting)
tl;dr: At least one person who used Bitcoin in the first month also used Silk Road, so we made a news story about it. Could be DPR himself, who knows.
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From the article, that one person made a BTC transfer of an equivalent 60,000 USD (at the time of the transfer being made).
It's not likely just a case of an early bitcoin user buying some drugs on silk road.
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Re:A link between DPR and an early Bitcoiner (Score:5, Insightful)
Regardless if there was an official link, it is probably true that Bitcoin really took off when illegal/quasi-legal enterprises like Silk Road started using them. That's not to say Silk Road created Bitcoin or that all Bitcoin commerce is illegal, just that it would never have grown to real prominence without it.
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That was always going to be true.
Persecution increases pressure, which drives evolution. Criminals are under a survival-pressure to avoid detection, which means they will actively be looking for/experimenting with ways to avoid detection. The general population is under no such pressure, and so adopts more slowly. I'm willing to bet that child pornographers, or other criminals whose crime is generally one of communication, adopted encryption before the rest of the general population, too, for the same reaso
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However it is a pretty sure sign that the US government is working on generating a publicly acceptable reason to launch an all out attack on bitcoin. Now might well be the opportune time to cash in those bitcoins before an NSA/CIA/SS (secret service) attack nullifies their value.
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>it is a scam
Nope.
>Once the governments shut down
And how are they going to do that? It's decentralised, and there are hundreds of clones (LTC for example).
>the illegal transactions
In some jurisdictions. Other jurisdictions rule these transactions are completely legal. If the buyer, the seller, and the marketplace are in a jurisdiction where their actions are legal, what right does the government of another sovereign body have to stop these transactions?
Bitcoin does matter. It may not matter to you,
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Bitcoin can be run over tor so you have to block tor too to accomplish that. Of course, tor is made to help users subvert blocking so good luck.
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Bitcoin matters because it fills a need in the digital era: small cheap transactions that don't take days to complete (banks), depend on the goodwill of untrustworthy entities (PayPal, Visa) nor require a monthly fee to participate in (Visa). Even if a government were to shut it down a new one would simply pop right up, thus all said governmen
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Not really. It is an imaginary currency mainly set up by crooks. I see no need for it and no trust in it.
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Pretty much any kind of hard to track payment service has been used for illegal means. Western Union was the staple of bank fraud money exit a while ago, does that mean that WU supports it? Far from it.
Criminals simply want to use means that are easy to use and hard to track. Whatever fits that bill will be used. If the salvation army ran such a service, it would be used by criminals.
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The Silk Road indictment reveals that their sales only amounted to 4.5% of the total bitcoin transactions over the period it operated. That is about the same ratio as paper US dollars used for drug purchases worldwide vs. total spending of paper dollars for all kinds of purchases.
The indictment also mis-values the total Silk Road sales by taking the total number of bitcoin sales (the only currency they accepted) x the market price at the time they seized the site. Bitcoins were worth much less on average
No, PayPal always for eBay, not porn (Score:5, Informative)
PayPal never was popular for porn. On any given day of your choice, there was 100 times as many PayPal transactions on eBay than PayPal transactions for porn.
Porn went from AdultCheck and other AVS systems to iBill and a few iBill competitors. With the fall of iBill, CCBill took over the adult sector.
specific, popup free, not weird. Girls Gone Wild (Score:2)
As you mentioned, people pay to get exactly what they want, something specific. Not so much sick and depraved, but specific. Either specific niches like Amelia G's work, or a specific style like Perfect 10. Girls Gone Wild is just flashing of boobs and they have a LOT of customers. See also Netvideogirls.com, a specific style / story line.
Aside from that, the megasites offer a plethora of porn with no popups, no viruses, no bullshit. The value proposition is there for anyone whose time has value.
Re: Early Paypal (Score:4, Informative)
Paypal's primary niche in the early days was being a popular way to pay sellers on eBay using credit cards. The seller could accept Paypal much more easily than opening merchant accounts with multiple credit card services, and the buyer didn't have to give the seller their credit card number, and the transaction fees were competitive. It was way better and faster than buyers having to mail sellers a check, waiting for the post office, sellers having to wait for the check to clear, buyers hoping the seller wasn't scamming them; it cuts a huge step out of the non-credit-card market.
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There's a comment on TFA that says:
"It is well documented in the bitcoin blockchain that Satoshi Nakamoto famously gave away most of the early bitcoins to encourage adaptation."
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> "It is well documented in the bitcoin blockchain that Satoshi Nakamoto famously gave away most of the early bitcoins to encourage adaptation."
Actually, it is easy to prove this is false. Look up any random block number below 25,000, which is in the first 6 months of bitcoin's existence. For example:
https://blockchain.info/block-index/20000 [blockchain.info] (vary the number 20000 up and down to see other blocks)
Follow the "newly generated coins" transaction (the first one in the block) to the destination address, and
Re:A link between DPR and an early Bitcoiner (Score:5, Insightful)
I think the more interesting part is the fact that we have some decent mathematicians (in this case Adi Shamir among others) are setting about pulling the entire bitcoin transaction graph and doing some serious data-mining on it. The reported result sounds like a mildly interesting result that happened to pop up in the first pass.
Given the advanced tools available these days for graph mining (largely developed for social network analysis among other things) I suspect some rather more interesting results may start coming out soon. What may seem hard to track on an individual basis may fall somewhat more easily to powerful analysis tools that get to make use of the big picture. I bet there's some interesting info on cliques and exchanges that could be teased out by serious researchers with some decent compute power at their disposal. Pseudonymity may be even weaker than you might think.
Serious(ly incompent) data mining (Score:1)
Unfortunately their paper was mostly fail and confusion: https://gist.github.com/jgarzik/3901921 [github.com], since academia has mostly been steadfastly ignoring Bitcoin there is not any really competent peer review yet and you can basically make anything up you want and get it published, especial if you have a name like Shamir on the paper.
every transaction can be analyzed (Score:3)
I think the more interesting part is the fact that we have some decent mathematicians (in this case Adi Shamir among others) are setting about pulling the entire bitcoin transaction graph and doing some serious data-mining on it.
The more disturbing fact is that bitcoin makes this kind of analysis possible in the first place.
A currency where every transaction can be analyzed and data-mined! Yow.
NSA must love this.
Zerocoin (Score:5, Informative)
Zerocoin should be launched soon. It uses zero-knowledge proofs to add in a lot of anonymity that bitcoin lacks.
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The net result of zerocoin is only that of a distributed mixing service. Since mixing services have fundamental problems of a non-technical nature, it just won't work.
But it's true to the bitcoin dream. Krugman accused bitcoin fans of trying to divorce the concept of economic value from the mess of human society. I expect zerocoin will just make it even clearer how nonsensical that dream is.
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> Since mixing services have fundamental problems of a non-technical nature, it just won't work.
OK, interesting. What are these problems? Isn't Tor just a "mixing service", yet the documents from the NSA which have been revealed up to now claim that even that bastion of binary processing power is capable of de-anonymizing only a small fraction of the Tor network's throughput?
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No, Tor is not a mixing service, there's a big difference between anonymizing communication and anonymizing payment tokens.
The fundamental problem with mixing services is that no matter how it works, some people need to put clean coin in. What's in it for them?
Also, if the mixing service can be identified by the authorities as a mixing service, you have a problem. You can be charged with helping to "disguise the source, ownership, location or control of proceeds of a serious crime" - the definition of money
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Re:every transaction can be analyzed (Score:5, Interesting)
A currency where every transaction can be analyzez and data mined by anyone... That puts everyone on a level playing field.
With traditional currency only a small group of organisations can get access to transaction data, which includes the NSA but doesn't include you.
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With traditional currency only a small group of organizations can get access to transaction data, which includes the NSA but doesn't include you.
I didn't know that where's george [wheresgeorge.com] was some secrete conspiracy. Oh your meant those silly electronic record updates not real currency. If you are really paranoid about people tracking your use of money use cash. It is hard to trace and hangs around in anonymous circulation for a while (bills smaller than a $20) before getting deposited at a bank. Also if you are really paranoid filter your cash through a casino, put it into a slot machine, cash out (don't play) and get your tokens or pay ticket and then rede
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tl;dr: Silk Road is for illegal drugs & Bitcoin is how you pay for them
So the fact you can pay for drugs and other illegal things means we should ban it or at the very least treat it as extremely suspect?
Alright.
Let's do the same to the dollar, the Euro and ruple. I am fairly certain that more drugs and illegal things get bought for those in an hour than gets bought with BTC for an entire day.
Let's ban the dollar, c'mon, seriously, let's do it.
i didn't say "ban bitcoin" (Score:2)
You, and whoever modded me as "-1 Flamebait" is putting words in my mouth
I said Silk Road was for drugs and Bitcoin is how you pay for them....**THATS TRUE**
I never said we could solve th
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You, and whoever modded me as "-1 Flamebait" is putting words in my mouth
I said Silk Road was for drugs and Bitcoin is how you pay for them....**THATS TRUE**
Aight...yes Silk Road Was a place for buying drugs and bitcoins were how you paid for them, that is true. Noone ever said that Silk Road didn't sell drugs or that you didn't pay for said drugs with BTC, so, what's your point?
I mean saying that you buy drugs on SR and pay with BTC is just stating already known facts you aren't really making any point.
I don't think that anyone thinks that Silk Road was innocent, I mean the admin was obviously raking in tons of cash on commisons from the illegal transactions going through SR and there is no way in hell that he wasn't aware what his site was being used for.
However, I fail to see how what SR was using BTC for says anything about Bitcoin other than "it was used". If you are trying to make it seem like Bitcoin is somehow inherently bad because it was used to pay for drugs, that same logic sould apply to any other currency curretly in use.
Yes, you paid for drugs with BTC when you used SR, that's just stating the obvious.
So make a point.
see the bottom of previous comment (Score:2)
listen...man...this is decaying fast...
i said, in text written at the bottom of the the comment you responded to [slashdot.org] what my point was
I said it in plain language:
it's right there...highlighted for you...with bold, italic, and **'s
respond coherently now
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**my comment was about the reality of what Silk Road is and how pretending its anything else hurts our profession!!!!!**
Who is pretending Silk Road didn't sell drugs? Haven't seen anyone say "Silk Road didn't sell drugs". At best I've seen people say "Silk Road sold OTHER stuff too."
Also: What proffession?
that's not a response (Score:2)
alot of people are pretending Silk Road & Bitcoin are not used in conjunction for the drug trade...
look man, my original post, which I linked to has my full comment...
you can't pick one fragment of a sentence, retort with the categorical opposite statement of that fragment, and call it an 'argument'
my point is easy to understand: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4480863&cid=45511411 [slashdot.org]
also: all tech professions, esp internet of any kind
Find Andy Kaufman (Score:5, Funny)
and you'll have found Satoshi Nakamoto.
The interesting question (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: The interesting question (Score:5, Funny)
Keyser Soze
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seems an apt guess given the greatest trick he ever pulled was to convince the world that his hard to find digital apples were worth money (after picking all the low hanging fruit for himself first).
Re: The interesting question (Score:5, Interesting)
Personally, I cashed out several times, like when it hit $6, then again at $20, then again at $110, a few at $210, then more at $140ish a couple months ago, at which time I gave up on mining and mostly stopped trading. We were all optimistic but few of us were patient enough to really amass huge wallets for the long term, nor did most of us really see the huge recent price spike coming, unfortunately. If there is any evidence that Satoshi somehow took advantage of BTC in a secretive, underhanded way, please enlighten us.
Just for shits and giggles, what if DPR and Satoshi were indeed in cahoots at the beginning, with DPR having the balls and skills to build a huge black market and Satoshi providing him with the means to make it work? Sounds unlikely to me, but it is conceivable that Satoshi created bitcoin not only knowing that it would be abused for illegal transactions, but also intending it to be used as such. Hmm...
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I'm not suggesting it was pre-mined, I'm suggesting that the exponential difficulty curve is a gold rush, and when you establish what constitutes gold you have a significant advantage over "the world".
It reeks of both insider trading and tulips.
Re: The interesting question (Score:4, Interesting)
Mostly tulips. I still wait for the day when someone tries to cash in a sensible amount of money. Not some 100s but rather some 100,000s. If that holds, the currency will hold water. If that doesn't go down well and causes the price to plummet, it's a tulip.
Well, as long as the FBI keeps taking money out of circulation in busts, it just might work out too...
Re: The interesting question (Score:4, Interesting)
Hasn't this happened several times already? Someone sells a large number of Bitcoins, the market crashes, then recovers in hours or days.
The thing is, unlike tulips Bitcoins have utility (easy value transfer over long distances), so the "natural" price tends to go slowly up as the market and with it that utility grow. With tulips that never happened, so once the bubble burst the price plummeted back to "pretty decorative flower" level.
Compare with gold, which is basically a 10,000 year bubble: people hoard it because they expect other people to hoard it too. Most of the utility comes from this speculation; while there's some utility beyond that, it accounts for a tiny fraction of the price. Yet gold is usually considered a safe investment, and that very belief makes it so.
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Re: The interesting question (Score:4, Insightful)
Just for shits and giggles, what if DPR and Satoshi were indeed in cahoots at the beginning, with DPR having the balls and skills to build a huge black market and Satoshi providing him with the means to make it work?
Have you read the details of how DPR got caught? Satoshi may be some kind of genius, but if Ross Ulbricht really is DPR then he definitely does not have the skills to run any kind of criminal enterprise. As for balls, stupidity can convince a person to do all kinds of things.
Re: The interesting question (Score:5, Insightful)
Satoshi effectively anticipated all kinds of attacks on bitcoin. Ulbricht co-lo'ed Silk Road in San Franscisco (USA).
'nuff said.
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If you doubt that, I doubt you really read up the details of the case
Ah, that explains it.
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I write for El Reg [theregister.co.uk]
Ah, that explains it.
It does, actually. As a member of the press operating under the jurisdiction of UK libel law, I'm not going to say he committed any crime until he's convicted.
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Does anyone profit anymore with GPU rigs, or do you have to shell out $10K and then wait a year for a Butterfly Labs box.
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Ah I suspected as much. Many thanks.
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sure you can.
as long as you steal the electricity.
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sure you can.
as long as you steal the electricity.
What if you produce the electricity yourself (e.g. solar panels)?
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sure.
as long as you steal the solar panels.
Try mining the other *coins (Score:2)
Trying mining other cyrptocurrents. They should have a lower barrier of entry than something as "over"-mined as Bitcoin. The trick, however, is to know which can be traded for a profit or not too great a loss with Bitcoin or maybe even directly to the fiat currency of your choice (dollars, yens, etc.). Litecoin seems attractive at the moment.
Also be careful of very, very recently forked Bitcoin alternatives. They might be fly-by-night operations designed simply to suck-er in users who want to buy their way
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"Sounds unlikely to me, but it is conceivable that..."
Actually with Dread Pirate Roberts, it's inconceivable.
Steve (Score:2)
the greatest trick he ever pulled was to convince the world that his hard to find digital apples were worth money
Are you talking about Mr. Nakamoto or Mr. Jobs?
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Mr. Jobs' apples were not hard to find. Indeed, he made sure that everyone knew where to get them.
Re:The interesting question (Score:5, Funny)
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Paul is dead, man. Miss him, miss him.
Re:The interesting question (Score:4, Funny)
If you keep missing him, how the heck did he die?
Ash Ketchum (Score:2)
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We still do not surely know who is Satoshi Nakamoto.
Who is Satoshi Nakamoto? He is supposed to be Turkish. Some say his father was German. Nobody believed he was real. Nobody ever saw him or knew anybody that ever worked directly for him, but to hear DPR tell it, anybody could have been Nakamoto. You never knew. That was his power. The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. And like that, poof. He's gone.
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Clearly he's Jean-Baptiste Mardelle.
Bitcoin is not anonymous. (Score:1)
Bitcoin is not anonymous. Bitcoin has never bean anonymous. Bitcoin has never been intended to be anonymous.
Stop pretending that anything otherwise is or has ever been true.
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Bitcoin itself is of course not anonymous, otherwise its name would have not been known.
Its use on the other hand...
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Its use on the other hand...
It's use leaves an indelible trail of A paid B paid C paid D ... from the creation of every BTC to it's current holder. The exact counterpoint to anonymous.
While there is bitcoin services that provide money laundering services, the use of those money laundering services also ends up in the indelible history of your BTC. So while it might no longer be clear who you received your BTC from, it is now irrevocably known that your BTC came from a money laundering service, which is illegal under US law.
Also, as in
NSA Running Silk Road??? (Score:1)
Or was it a CIA front operation???
Bitcoin is US government.
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And so the FUD begins (Score:3, Insightful)
Here is yet another attempt at spreading FUD around bitcoin for it is not a government regulated currency.
FTA:
"Although the authors state that they cannot prove that that account belongs to the person who created the bitcoin currency, it is widely believed that the first accounts belong to a person who identifies himself as “Satoshi Nakamoto,” but who has remained anonymous and has not been publicly heard from since 2010."
Weak and suggestive... but a perfect opportunity for the powers that be to try to stop Bitcoin from becoming a success.
Obviously these people have not understood that the the true value of Bitcoin lies not in it's function as a currency but in the validation mathematics of the blockchain that wrestles validation control out of the hands of the few and creates a distributed validation system...
The powers that be have much to gain from this FUD
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Outside conspiracy theories and an inflated sense of self importance, I have seen nothing to indicate that banks and governments are all that worried about BTC outside a few very narrow issues that are just new versions of old problems.
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Not weak and suggestive. "Satoshi Nakamoto" is by definition the person or group of people who invented bitcoin. If you had bitcoin in the first month, you were either that person/in that group or very close to them - which is exactly what Shamir & co says.
Anyway, I don't think Shamir is revealing anything NSA doesn't already know. DPR left very obvious traces before starting SR, but NSA could probably find far more subtle traces, and I'm sure SN left those. There are only a handful of people with the c
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I've been saying something very similar for a few weeks.
Governments have a habit of disliking things that involve vast amounts of money flowing around that they can neither control nor tax. Yet Bitcoin is the perfect currency for allowing uncontrolled, untaxed transactions worth billions. The instability might be a bit of a problem, but if I'm going to top up a Bitcoin wallet now and use it to pay for goods within the hour, I don't really care what it's doing a week next Tuesday.
How it'll ultimately play o
On the off-chance that they were in cahoots... (Score:4, Funny)
On the off-chance that they were in cahoots, and this guy helped start an international currency, in large part, to make silk road a reality... he totally just won drug-dealing.
Oh sorry I thought it said Dead Pirate Robots (Score:1)
nevermind...
well, there you have it (Score:1)
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Well, I don't know the origin of Man's control of fire, nor who first did it, but I,m still quite happy to use it for keeping warm and smelting.
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You're mad! How can you possibly use fire, it's just waiting for the right moment to turn on you and destroy you!
Re:Correct Me If I'm Wrong (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Correct Me If I'm Wrong (Score:5, Interesting)
It's not like Satoshi is controlling the system from the shadows or something - Bitcoin is open-source. You don't need to trust its creators.
The only thing that Satoshi controls in the protocol is a hash code which would allow somebody to insert a broadcast message to all "standard" clients. This was presumably done to broadcast something like "the Bitcoin client has been compromised... please upgrade to version x.x!"
Of course it could have any sort of message including publishing a URL, a political message, or even just "Satoshi lives!". Without the hashcode, clients (this isn't even miners) are not supposed to pass on the message in the network. The core group of developers supposedly received this hash code from Satoshi and is guarding its use for things deemed appropriate for all Bitcoin users.
The interesting thing is that this is a distributed network messaging protocol, so such a message could conceivably be inserted by any computer on the network and would in theory be untraceable as well. Other miscellaneous data could also conceivably be put into Bitcoin, but Satoshi deliberately put in some poison pills to keep that from happening in the protocol.
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I don't mean to get all "Minority Report" on your ass, but if I set a large boulder rolling down a hill towards a village, with the intent to destroy it, how much control of the system do I need? Oh, it's an open-source boulder, so everyone can chart its position and velocity over time. Big deal.
I know it's not very popular these days to conceive of "prime movers" effectively controlling the future by setting the initial conditions. But if you can conceive of that, you can also see how such a system can
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...or at least wouldn't have vaguely bragged about it on LinkedIn.
LinkedIn, ffs...those guys would spam their moms' email if they could convince investors that it would increase their market cap. Don't trust them to hide your shadowy marketplaces either.
Not the person, it's the office (Score:5, Interesting)
What's this got to do with Cary Elwes character from "The Princess Bride"?
In the novel (and movie), it was discovered that the "Dread Pirate Roberts" was not a single person.
One person started the legend, got rich and retired. His replacement kept the name in order to take advantage of the reputation, got rich, and retired... and this continued for several generations of the name.
From Wikipedia: "It is revealed during the course of the story that Roberts is not one man, but a series of individuals who periodically pass the name and reputation to a chosen successor. Everyone except the successor and the former Roberts is then released at a convenient port, and a new crew is hired. The former Roberts stays aboard as first mate, referring to his successor as "Captain Roberts", and thereby establishing the new Roberts' persona. After the crew is convinced, the former Roberts leaves the ship and retires on his earnings."
The original SilkRoad founder used the pseudonym "Dread Pirate Roberts", got rich, and turned over the name to his successor (who was sloppy and got arrested). The original founder's choice of name was probably an homage to a popular character, but it has mirrored the backstory of the book character with some measure of irony. (Or maybe it's not irony, it's just unexpected - I can't really tell.)
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Don't know if that's entirely conclusive - consider a hypothetical situation:
Person A builds website, writes journal keeping track of the process of doing so.
Person B wants to take over and run website, doesn't know how it all works.
Person A could spend X amount of time mentoring Person B, but couldn't be assed and so just says "Look, here's the diary I wrote when building it, that should get you sorted".
I would want to see something more than the fact that it was on his computer (i.e. the style it's writte
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L4$T p0$t (at the time of writing)