How the NSA Is Harming America's Economy 330
anagama writes "According to an article at Medium, 'Cisco has seen a huge drop-off in demand for its hardware in emerging markets, which the company blames on fears about the NSA using American hardware to spy on the rest of the world. ... Cisco saw orders in Brazil drop 25% and Russia drop 30%. ... Analysts had expected Cisco's business in emerging markets to increase 6%, but instead it dropped 12%, sending shares of Cisco plunging 10% in after-hours trading.' This is in addition to the harm caused to remote services that may cost $35 billion over the next three years. Then, of course, there are the ways the NSA has made ID theft easier. ID theft cost Americans $1.52 billion in 2011, to say nothing of the time wasted in solving ID theft issues — some of that figure is certainly attributable to holes the NSA helped build. The NSA, its policies, and the politicians who support the same are directly responsible for massive losses of money and jobs."
tough love (Score:5, Interesting)
#include "grumpycat"
printf("good!\n");
seriously, I would not trust US hardware and software, either.
but then again, those routers are already at every choke-point on the internet. the US owns the internet (public one, anyway) in all practical ways.
but for private networks when you can pick which routers and switches you want to deploy, picking a US based vendor would not be wise. I would not do it if I was in charge of a private network.
maybe its time we consider going back to software (oss) based networking gear. it will be much slower than hardware based ones but we can't verify hardware designs like we can software ones.
there is also no way to put this genie back into the bottle. once your cred is gone, its gone. and the US has lost ALL cred when it comes to safeguarding your privacy.
sad but true. as a US citizen, I am sorry for how badly we have botched the world's trust.
Re:tough love (Score:5, Informative)
maybe its time we consider going back to software (oss) based networking gear. it will be much slower than hardware based ones but we can't verify hardware designs like we can software ones.
That software has to run on hardware and if you can't trust the hardware you are screwed anyway, it's like trusting your software (oss) encryption when there's a hardware keylogger installed. Send the right magic numbers and the hardware could start doing anything it wants like mirroring traffic, dumping memory, whatever the attacker needs to completely compromise the box. The only advantage would be that it could run on more generic hardware that you hopefully could buy from a more trusted supplier.
Re:tough love (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe was the spying that did the damage.
Re:tough love (Score:4, Insightful)
Snowden is a giant monkey wrench in that; He's done more to harm America than pretty much anyone since the turn of the century
way to blame the messenger, there!
everything you wrote is junk since you blame the guy who was the whistleblower instead of the actual criminals (ie, the nsa).
fuck you! snowden was one of the best things to happen to the US! a breath of fresh honesty.
Re:tough love (Score:5, Insightful)
In today's multi/transnational corporate world the USA does not exist. The famous Authur Jensen speech from 1976 comes to mind. There is nobody that's going to protect us from this anywhere in the world. Anybody who tries will be 'liberated'. And the biggest part of the problem is that people keep on blaming policy and politicians for this, and nobody will look in the mirror and admit that they voted for it, To them I say, *you asked for it, thankyouverymuch.* The ball is in our court.
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Nope.
Re:tough love (Score:4, Insightful)
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That "Trust" should be no-where in your security plan.
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Where does that leave us really?
Not relying on any one brand, presumably.
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Re:tough love (Score:4, Insightful)
It's not a about 'cred'... dude.
When your government puts its own institutional interests above those the people from which it derives its democratic legitimacy, it's no longer acting democratically. So, technically, once the US began operating imperially, back in the 19th century, the slow withering rot of oligarchy began to emerge as the driving farce behind the facade of electoral chaos.
Take the case of Teddy Roosevelt who believed that the US naval superiority should be used offensively to increase domestic political power by use of force or the ease by which Truman chose to drop not one but two weapons of mass destruction on the Japanese. These actions were neither expressions of democracy of altruism. They were imperial. Not that we should overlook the covert actions of the Dulles brothers when they used the Dept of State and CIA to prosecute the interest of US corporate business around world in the 50s.
The players have changed but the song remains the same, and now that the world is largely developed and includes 7 billion people who tend to get in the way, either legally or by their mere presence, there's nothing left to do but degrade the wealth of those who share the same nationality. So get ready for the 21st Century. It's going to be a bumpy ride if you still believe in the fairy tale of Democracy for all or self determination for anyone.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
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AFAIK, the U.S. only had enough material for the 2 bombs (after testing), which of course was not made public.
Uh, not true. They were pumping out new bombs on a production line, and the third bomb would have been ready to go soon after the second was dropped; Truman vetoed any further use. If I remember correctly, they were up to about one bomb a month by that point, and accelerating.
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Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
all not true (Score:3, Informative)
I've personally seen the declassified war documents written by the leaders of the DoD at the time.
Japan was on the verge of surrender before we bombed them. The USA knew this. It was a conditional surrender to USSR. The USA demanded an unconditional surrender to the USA, for strategic and practical reasons. The cold war was already ramping up. The USA President and War Secretary decided to drop the bombs to force this surrender.
You can read about all of the above in these docs. Copies of them are located at
Re:tough love (Score:4, Insightful)
Truman was trying to end the war between Japan and the U.S. before it could become a long, drawn out ground war costing millions more lives. AFAIK, the U.S. only had enough material for the 2 bombs (after testing), which of course was not made public. Japan did not immediately surrender after the first A-Bomb attack, and that's when the 2nd bomb was used, and only then did Japan surrender. Thank God that Japan did not know that Truman was bluffing his poker hand, or the war could have gone on far longer.
Oh yes, please continue to to repeat that mass-murder-justifying state propaganda. It does wonders for our society's ability to think clearly about moral issues.
Re:tough love (Score:5, Interesting)
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> sad but true. as a US citizen, I am sorry for how badly we have botched the world's trust.
Don't worry, you never have been trusted as a nation. Individual Americans, sure, I am likely to trust them more than my countrymen, but collectively all political entities behave the same. Our interests first.
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Fortunately most secure internet protocols are designed on the assumption that you can only trust the end points, not anything in-between them. As such replacing the end-point routers with non-US hardware/software will improve security.
Re:tough love (Score:4, Insightful)
Just goes to show what I asked a few weeks ago. Back in Oct I posted a comment that this may lead to a IT revolution of sorts because of all of this.
No surprise that when I commented about it before I was labeled 1:Redundant.
Think ahead people. If I were a competitor from outside the USA I'd be asking Snowden to release more details. Heck, I if I were a CEO of one of them I might be writing him a "thank you" check. The worse the NSA spying appears to be(or even that looks plausible to do with financial resources) the more people will want to avoid US companies that might be in bed with the government.
At this point, it doesn't really matter "how much" worse it gets. Everyone's already figured they can source hardware from outside the USA. What would be an interesting twist is if decades later we find out that all these people started buying from China or some other country and those do actually have backdoors while the US companies actually didn't.
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started buying from China or some other country and those do actually have backdoors while the US companies actually didn't.
You do know they've already been found, right? It's how the NSA hacked google.
Re:tough love (Score:5, Insightful)
What trustworthy country do you want to buy them from? China? Russia? One of the major US allies?
sigh
Just give me the Cisco one. :(
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What trustworthy country do you want to buy them from? China? Russia? One of the major US allies?
sigh
Just give me the Cisco one. :(
Tell you what: get a RasberryPi and a USB-to-Ethernet adapter (USB2.0 - max rate - 480Mbps - I thing it's enough for a home user).
There, for under $70, you have the base for your very own router, under you control. VPN capable, no less.
Buy Chinese... (Score:3, Funny)
Let Brasil and Russia buy Chinese then. They deserve only the best.
Re:Buy Chinese... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Yeah, right.
And exactly from where do you think all that "good and cheap" goodies you buy around you there in America comes from? Or do you think that Cisco have any manufacturing on EUA?
Speaking frankly, buying stuff directly from China will just cut off the man-in-the-middle money sucker on the manufacturing chain, also known as U.S.A.
*OF COURSE* that most of these devices are *INVENTED* by americans on America, and on the long run these same goodies will be deprecated without a proper (modern) replacemen
The long term damage will be enormous (Score:5, Insightful)
As soon as software catches up and makes it practical, the rest of the world is going to dump the US cloud forever.
I'm the only one smelling BS here? (Score:4, Insightful)
How much taxes is Cisco paying to the US government? Because if they pay like every other corporation (1%), then the fact that they now sell less won't have any repercussion on the tax income.
I still hate NSA, but this looks like two ass-holes pointing fingers at each other.
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Employees pay taxes, if they sell less gear they will employ fewer people that will collectively pay less in taxes.
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Cisco sales go in the toilet -> Employees laid off -> no income/FICA tax from them.
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Stop measuring the economic contribution of an event solely in terms of tax revenue. Cisco pays salaries, purchases goods and services from subcontractors, pays dividends, etc. All contributions to the economy before the gov't takes its cut.
Re:I'm the only one smelling BS here? (Score:4, Informative)
"Cisco’s techniques cut the effective tax rate on its reported international income to about 5 percent since 2008 by moving profits from roughly $20 billion in annual global sales through the Netherlands, Switzerland and Bermuda"
cite [bloomberg.com]
Re:I'm the only one smelling BS here? (Score:4, Insightful)
"Tax-to-profit"?
So if a corporation actually loses money in a year, they shouldn't pay any tax?
Why not tax-to-revenue?
I have to have a place to live, stuff to eat, transportation, and all sorts of other little stuff. Cost of living. Yet I'm taxed on my income. All of it.
Corporations have buildings, employee wages, recurring costs. It's all just cost of doing business. And as a business expense, they aren't taxed on it.
If a corporation has a major breakthrough and makes a billion bucks, they can finally sell off some of that crap investment stock (which was really a sweetheart deal to a friend) and report zero profit. Meanwhile, if I work hard and get a bonus, or a second job, or win the lotto, it's taxed at the top rate, and if I make extra payments on the house, or credit card debt, or pay off some medical bills, that's all out of my wallet.
It's not that these are tax cheats, it's that the game has all of it's rules written for, and by, the big corporations. And since they're international, they avoid as much of the game as possible by moving profits overseas.
"A hungry man is an angry man" (Score:3)
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Quoting Bob Marley, economy is the bloodline of any society. It's where the buck stops. I hope that our "patriotic"(nationalist) Orwellian ways can play a second fiddle to our economy. If not, we are paving our path to our own demise.
As long as it doesn't backfire in the public opinion, a lot of Americans might be sympathetic to exposing the extensive spying on others but when it starts hurting their own wallet is that anger going to be directed at Snowden or the NSA? I mean in the whole "Snowden - hero or traitor?" debate tanking the US economy is probably not a plus. Personally I think you'll get a lot of first-order reaction and the second-order reaction "But should we really have been spying in the first place?" will be much weaker,
Collateral damage (Score:3)
Misleading Title (Score:5, Funny)
Harming America's economy? This is more about affecting Cisco's profits. And color me unsympathetic, as they are an "American" corporation (in scare quotes since it shifts as it suits them) when it comes time to complain about something, but they are apparently Swiss http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-28/biggest-tax-avoiders-win-most-gaming-1-trillion-u-s-tax-break.html [bloomberg.com] when its time to pay taxes.
Re:Misleading Title (Score:5, Interesting)
This isn't just Cisco. No-one can trust US technology any more; they've got from the most trusted on the planet to, at best, no better than the Chinese, in the space of a few months.
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That's to be expected. Security of data is critically important to all businesses, even the American ones who are also affected by the NSA scandals. I would expect politicians to be in an uproar and call for the dismantling of the NSA and for all their secret projects to be disclosed and security holes patched up so America can once again be trusted.
Lol, who am i kidding. I expect people to be silenced, jailed, tortured and publicly humiliated if they dare speak the truth again, and for the NSA's budget
Re:Misleading Title (Score:4, Funny)
And they're Greek when it comes to sex, if you know what I'm saying.
Edit: for those that don't know what I'm saying, Cisco likes to fuck you in the ass.
No shit ... (Score:5, Insightful)
If the American security infrastructure is going to turn American corporations into de-facto arms of the intelligence process, then nobody has any choice but to not trust them.
Anything involved in the security of the internet that's been tainted by being complicit with the NSA et al can't be trusted. So Cisco is going to feel the pinch.
Anything in 'the cloud' ran by a US company is subject to PATRIOT Act demands. So Oracle, Microsoft, Amazon ... they're all going to feel the pinch. And Google's hosted solutions for email is also something you can't trust.
When the NSA undermines security for their own ends, then anything they've had a hand in can't be trusted.
So the end result is most governments and companies in other countries more or less have to look at any US player as not trustworthy, or actively hostile to your goals.
As long as you keep acting like your security trumps the sovereignty of everyone else ... well, the only answer is to say "OK, fuck you" and cut you out of the picture entirely.
All of your big corporations are more or less presumed to be lying (because they can't admit to participating in this), complicit with collecting data to send back to Big Brother, and violating local privacy and data access laws.
And since 'Murica has been railing about how the Chinese are infiltrating their stuff (while doing the same thing), and complaining about countries which restrict a free internet ... they've lost a position of having the moral high ground. The US is doing everything they accuse other countries of doing, only they're apparently doing it on a massive scale.
So, yes, this should have an impact on the US economy. And you can choose to stay the course and see it keep happening, or you can fix the problem. And so far, we've seen no evidence whatsoever there's any contrition or accepting that what they did was going to piss off everyone else.
But when all of those orders start getting cancelled, and new ones stop coming, don't stand around wailing about how unfair it is that people have decided they can't trust you and don't want your stuff.
But in a country which is actively ignoring its own Constitution and freedoms, I'm not expecting any meaningful introspection on behalf of the US. I'm expecting more bluster, claims about how everyone else is doing it, and continuing with the status quo.
Re:No shit ... (Score:5, Insightful)
" And so far, we've seen no evidence whatsoever there's any contrition or accepting that what they did was going to piss off everyone else."
Stratfor hacker Jeremy Hammond sentenced to ten years in jail [rt.com]
I'd say sneering contempt rather than contrition.
I'm out! (Score:4, Interesting)
When SOPA was a looming thing, I was in the market to move from shared hosting to a VPS, and so I made it a point to chose a VPS that was in another country.
Sadly, I chose the Netherlands, who are NSA collaborators. I'm just waiting for a specific piece of software to be released, and I'm out of there and on to a new server in a new country - I'm thinking Switzerland right now. Iceland is too expensive.
go to bed with the pigs.... (Score:2)
So they are countering... (Score:2)
So they are countering this bad press by open sourcing the system and inviting everyone to verify that their hardware is ait-tight secure, right? Right?
*crickets*
perspective (Score:2)
its policies, and the politicians who support the same are directly responsible for massive losses of money and jobs
How does that compare to, say, the policies that have made offshoring lucrative, or the changes to depression-era rules that allowed the 2008 global economic meltdown?
True at least partially (Score:4, Funny)
This is The Cost of Freedom (Score:2)
If these other Countries don't want to buy All-American products with Freedom® and Democracy® built-in, then they stand against us in our Global War of Terror
Encrypt everything (Score:5, Insightful)
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Things like SSL are possibly out of question as NSA has corrupted the root certs.
[citation needed]
You're all going to jail! (Score:3)
Yours sincerely,
The government of North Korea^W^Wthe USA.
If its made in the USA - I don't trust it (Score:5, Interesting)
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Unfortunately, current trends suggest there are not enough people who give a damn about their privacy to make a dent in the bottom line.
It's corporations who buy Cisco's routers, and they do care, because they have trade secrets and business plans to protect. But regular consumers? They *want* to be spied on by Google and Facebook.
Taste of their own medicine (Score:2)
What goes around, comes around...
TSA also hurting US economy (Score:4, Interesting)
Not just the NSA, but the TSA aswell. Myself and many other Canadians that I know refuse to vacation in the States anymore because of the invasive border checks.
Which begs the bigger question (Score:2)
And evoking Reagan 's speech writer, how the hell would you verify anyway?
"HAHAHAHAHAHA (Score:4, Insightful)
HAHAHAHAHA Yes this is so perfect! It just keeps getting better and better!" - Bin Laden's ghost
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lol! show me the proof?
are you serious?
you can't be serious. you just can't be.
how exactly do you expose exploits in routers when no one will ever admit they exist, but we all are pretty damned sure they DO exist?
besides, if you do find an exploit, you can expect a NSL that will stop you from telling people about it.
Re:Certainly attributable? (Score:5, Informative)
> So the particular statement referring to the NSA making identity theft easier is flat out BULLSHIT.
How so? I thought it is pretty much fact. They introduced some weak encryption, and most of all they introduced weak random number generators, which means any key generated using it should be considered compromised. If the NSA can break it, the hackers will learn how to break it, too, especially if there is money behind it.
SHOW ME THE PROOF (Score:5, Insightful)
SHOW ME THE PROOF
I would, but look what happened to the last brave American who tried that. I don't want to have to seek asylum in Russia and ask some crime ridden South American country to take me in, nor watch my back every minute for the U.S. agents trying to kidnap or kill me. The President talked big about protecting whistle blowers before this happened, but then all of that was quietly removed from his website Everyone of us that actually has the proof knows better than show it to you.
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Well since the NSA started its movement the free Internet we knew and loved has changed utterly, so I'd say some kind of identity theft has taken place.
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dunno about that, but I don't get why bother with nsa created holes when the legislation allows the holder of information needed for such id theft to sell it and some have been selling them(credit check companies).
and about cert authorities with usa operations being coerced to co-operate? fucking no shit sherlock! that's not even news, that's just a direct consequence of the powers the agencies have.
Re:Certainly attributable? (Score:4, Informative)
A bit hard to prove a case of it but not too hard to show the possability. Google around for the documented cases in Greece and (IIRC Italy) where organized crime used U.S. mandated back doors into telephone switches to spy on their government.
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Re:Certainly attributable? (Score:5, Insightful)
SHOW ME THE PROOF
Ok...
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/05/nsa-gchq-encryption-codes-security [theguardian.com]
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130909/11430124454/john-gilmore-how-nsa-sabotaged-key-security-standard.shtml [techdirt.com]
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/06/us/nsa-foils-much-internet-encryption.html?hp&_r=0 [nytimes.com]
I think you're just failing to understand the scope of what they've done. The NSA planted people in standards bodies to deliberately weaken those standards. Not only do we have eye whiteness's from those standards committees that have complained about this for years, but we've got leaked documents from the NSA bragging about doing it. One of their primary goals seems to have been to dissuade broadening the use of encryption in general. By making the standards complicated, hard to understand, a lot of people just gave up and didn't implement them. In other cases they tried to block standards from using encryption by default. All of this leads to a less secure network. Without a doubt those actions of made crime and identity theft much easier. Can we find some guy and say that his identity was stolen because of the NSA? No... but what we can say is that without the NSA's interference, there would be more, and better encryption... and more and better encryption would have definitely reduced the numbers of identity thefts in the world.
Re:And everyone on Slashdot cares about Cisco (Score:5, Interesting)
From one perspective some of us do care - they do make stuff that works reasonably well.
But my suspicion is that there's more to this than just abandoning Cisco. In many cases it's a lot cheaper to set up a router based on a PC and Linux, which probably is what happens in "emerging markets".
As for the NSA - they could probably do a lot better for the economy if they did put their effort into tracking down and nuking scammers, spammers and other internet pests - and their karma would be better. And they better use the CIA and others to really "take care" of those problems.
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"Emerging markets" (and god knows what the scare quotes are for) likely need enterprise class equipment too.
Emerging markets can use hand-me-down SOHO equipment in their houses, classrooms and hotels, but those machines connect to something bigger, and throwing Vyatta on a used PC doesn't compare to a 6500 for your campus or 9000 for your new ISP.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyatta [wikipedia.org]
SDN is coming with or without Cisco's blessing (Score:5, Insightful)
Emerging markets ... likely need enterprise class equipment too.
Well, yes and no, but reportedly 98.9% no [businessinsider.com] in the case of at least one huge deal that fell through.
SDN is coming, and the likes of Cisco are terrified of it. So would you be if your own executives thought it was going to cut your company's value in half and there was little you could do about it.
The main thing they've got left to compete with is the trust in their brand, the idea that they're a safe bet and no-one ever got fired for buying Cisco. They're in trouble even without all the NSA publicity, but if their own government is damaging their established brand, it doesn't exactly help their situation.
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Emerging markets ... likely need enterprise class equipment too.
....snip....
SDN is coming, and the likes of Cisco are terrified of it. So would you be if your own executives thought it was going to cut your company's value in half .....shop....
Hmmm..... SDN... I cannot comment on the "cut value in half" but they
seem to have a toe in the waters. Of interest big Cisco hardware has
few if any honest competition. One of the keys issues is provisions for
"legal" wiretaps. Legal taps in contrast to the NSA vacuum it all up problematic
processes.
http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/cisco-sdn-splash-coming [networkworld.com]
The high end seems secure(ish} but the machine room is under attack.
Note the interesting project that Facebook has undertaken where a router
Re:And everyone on Slashdot cares about Cisco (Score:5, Insightful)
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From one perspective some of us do care - they do make stuff that works reasonably well.
But my suspicion is that there's more to this than just abandoning Cisco. In many cases it's a lot cheaper to set up a router based on a PC and Linux, which probably is what happens in "emerging markets".
As for the NSA - they could probably do a lot better for the economy if they did put their effort into tracking down and nuking scammers, spammers and other internet pests - and their karma would be better. And they better use the CIA and others to really "take care" of those problems.
Yup. NSA knows where all the child porn distributors are, what they are using to do it, and who the people are.
But do nothing about it.
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Oh - they do something about it - it ends up in their fap stash.
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To paraphrase McCarthy, "I have here in my hand a list of 205—a list of names that were made known to the government as being members of child trafficking rings and who nevertheless are still working and operating in the United States."
If you've got actual evidence to back up your claim, set the wheels in motion - but don't get trigger-happy. As much as I'm disgusted with government, we do not want or need another red scare.
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Poor Cisco (Score:5, Funny)
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every vendor who rises above a certain level of market share is going to be 'asked' to install backdoors in their networking and infrastructure gear.
I can't say how I know this, but I know this. I'm pretty sure I know this... ;)
its not just cisco. its all networking gear that the US gov would want to buy and operate.
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A decent company would have outed the requests (if allowed, or ideally even if not). The problem is, I would guess that they're promised government contracts, etc, in exchange for their 'patriotism'. Global companies should think globally and not let local greed endanger their business.
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LOL at 'if allowed'.
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every vendor who rises above a certain level of market share is going to be 'asked' to install backdoors in their networking and infrastructure gear.
I can't say how I know this, but I know this. I'm pretty sure I know this... ;)
its not just cisco. its all networking gear that the US gov would want to buy and operate.
Well, supposing I don't just take your word for that... I'll still be basically convinced by now that your statement is true. I don't think your assertion surprises many at this point. The question is, will these economic bottom-line implications succeed where public outrage so far failed to materialize, and curb this outrageous level of policing the nation/world?
That would be so bitter sweet. And an entirely typical way for America to do the right thing for the wrong reasons...
Re:Poor Cisco (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, nobody knows how much of a choice they have in the matter. If the NSA come rolling in with a National Security Letter, comply and keep quiet it's rather hard to refuse. It's not like they'd just make a corporate fine for leaking it, they'd be going after individuals to put them in prison. Are you ready to do a Snowden and screw your whole life for the sake of not complying with a government order of questionable constitutionality? If the government wants to put you over a barrel, they can.
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Good question. Obviously a NSL can require them to hand over *customer* data, and to keep quiet about it.
But how about secret keys? It seems that the NSA is trying to get those, too. So all hardware made in the US is compromised.
And can they demand a company to lie to customers? To manipulate computer systems? To install back doors? I am not usually one for primary virtues, but this seems to be crossing a line.
Re:And everyone on Slashdot cares about Cisco (Score:4, Informative)
I don't know who is interested in cisco, but you missed the big picture.
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It will take time, not happen all at once (Score:5, Interesting)
Microsoft, Google, Amazon and Apple all go bankrupt at once because of this.
That is extremely unlikely. What is more plausible, however, is:
1. They continue to lose the confidence of international customers.
2. Those customers seek alternative arrangements that they consider more trustworthy, possibly ad-hoc ones at first.
3. Over time, a new generation of more structured alternatives begins to develop to supply the new market demand, offering similar services and products to the big name US brands.
Some of these may be direct commercial competitors, but that's not really the concern for the current market leaders, because the barrier to entry for anyone trying to compete head-on is huge. Probably the greater risk is collaborative movements, whether Open Source tools or simply a degree of standardisation and compatibility between smaller vendors that means you can build (for example) a heterogenous network using a pool of specialist vendors and have a good chance of it working.
This is potentially toxic to broad US vendors such as Cisco in the networking space or the big cloud services companies who ideally want you to outsource almost your entire IT infrastructure to them alone. Which brings us on to...
4. Even in the US, long-time and lucrative customers start second-guessing whether they still need US IT Brand X, and those brands start losing serious money to both the foreign movements and, over time, also to new competitors in the US who are riding the open/collaboration wave to get a disruptive foothold in the market.
And at that point, the big US vendors are really in trouble.
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Yeah, as if it's just limited to Cisco, and certainly won't have an effect on the rest of the tech industry (like Cloud Computing) going all the way down to programmers... dumbass.
Re:And everyone on Slashdot cares about Cisco (Score:5, Informative)
But even if you pop the champagne and throw a party when Cisco is hurt, I wouldn't be surprised if all other U.S. companies suffer similar harm, and that's no cause for a party.
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I wouldn't be surprised if all other U.S. companies suffer similar harm, and that's no cause for a party.
For a lot of people and a lot of different reasons, it would be cause for celebration if these markets opened up and weren't dominated by a few giants any more. That's the heart of the problem for the giants.
The related problem for the US government is that new entrants in the markets won't necessary be based in, or even operate in, the United States. Aside from any potential security concerns that might give them, it's going to hit the US tax man right in the spreadsheet.
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Personally, I despise Cisco for their heavy handed business practices. They lost my business a long time ago, but from the "what's good for the U.S. economy, they do still count. So it sucks, hard, to see our government's misguided policies affect them, not to mention just about every other U.S. tech company with an international market.
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Dude, it's agreed that slashvertizements are in bad taste...like asking a girl for sex when you go to pick her up for a date (i.e. it's super rude), but having said as much (seriously editors, do something about this), everything this blurb is talking about was predicted. NSA goes on privacy knifing binge, other Powers decide not to trust the US with their secrets, the businesses of the US cry out. Predicted, known, and they still didn't care. And now they want our trust, again, so they can betray it, again
Irrational Fear, Fear, FEAR!!!! (Score:2)
We don't like what the US does. So we boycott this company because they may be working with the NSA...
However... the NSA can work with many "foreign" companies as well, As in today global economy the difference between a foreign company and a US company, is the location of the CEO's most used office.
Plant an operative, in the manufacturing area, when he installs the code of the firmware to flash, he puts in a slightly different version.
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Exactly, that's the part these self-professed "patriots" don't get. Ideology and nationalism doesn't put food on the table.
Actually, it would.
If everyone in the US would stop buying foreign goods or sending money oversees, the US can sustain itself. There is more than enough farmland, more than enough industrial capacity to produce everything needed and the world's most innovative area (silicon valley) is in the US.
So while I'm not at all one of those "the US is the best" folks, it is certainly true that the US will survive should the world decide to hate it.
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Idiot. Without export there will be no import. Who is going to sell you petrol
The US produces more oil than Iran
Or iPad
Can easily be manufactured in the US. It will just be a bit more expensive
Or precious metals?
Discovery channel has at least 5 different series of "Gold Rush Alaska" etc...
Or steel?
You're kidding, right?
Or lithium for you convertible's batteries?
http://www.mining.com/web/new-wyoming-lithium-deposit-could-meet-all-u-s-demand/ [mining.com]
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Not really. Having demonstrated that American firms can't be trusted (because due to the PATRIOT Act they can't), American firms will see declines in sales from outside of America.
If American firms see declines in sales, they lay off people. So you get the double whammy of companies making less money, and having fewer people on the payroll.
All those consultant
Re:You mean Massive Increase in jobs and spending (Score:5, Interesting)