Scientology's Fraud Conviction Upheld In France 321
schwit1 writes "France's top appeals court has upheld a fraud conviction and fines totaling hundreds of thousands of euros against the Church of Scientology, for taking advantage of vulnerable followers. France regards Scientology as a cult, not a religion, and had prosecuted individual Scientologists before, but the 2009 trial marked the first time the organization as a whole had been convicted. 'The head of a parliamentary group on religious cults in France, lawmaker Georges Fenech, hailed the ruling. 'Far from being a violation of freedom of religion, as this American organization contends, this decision lifts the veil on the illegal and highly detrimental practices' of the group, said Fenech. The court case followed a complaint by two women, one of whom said she was manipulated into handing over 20,000 euros in 1998 for Scientology products including an "electrometer" to measure mental energy. A second woman claimed she was forced by her Scientologist employer to undergo testing and enrol in courses, also in 1998. When she refused she was fired.'"
..everyone remember to post as AC ! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:..everyone remember to post as AC ! (Score:5, Funny)
i wonder if there are any high level Scientologists in the NSA?
Of course, they are known as Operating System Thetans.
Re:..everyone remember to post as AC ! (Score:5, Funny)
i wonder if there are any high level Scientologists in the NSA?
Of course, they are known as Operating System Thetans.
They even created the Scientology Operating System (SOS). They don't use terms like "cpu" and "reinstalling" anymore, but use more common terms like "brain" and "brainwashing".
Re:..everyone remember to post as AC ! (Score:5, Insightful)
And the "audit log" is something completely different.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:..everyone remember to post as AC ! (Score:5, Informative)
congratulations, I didn't think you could make those leaks even scarier.
Because that sort of thing definitely happened. [wikipedia.org]
Re:..everyone remember to post as AC ! (Score:5, Interesting)
And this isn't just a practice of the distant past either. One of the things that came out of the Scooter Libby/Valerie Plame trial, as a bizarre aside, was that Tom Cruise had actually been meeting with then-Vice-President Dick Cheney to urge him to put sanctions on Germany for banning Scientology. Those are the kind of lengths these people are willing to go to harass anyone that crosses them, even ENTIRE GOVERNMENTS. And that was just ten years ago. Scary shit.
Re: (Score:2)
Hey! My friend passed the Operating Systems class by disecting XINU, a lesser-know educational Unix-like system. And if he had XINU to learn from, maybe... He took the course on Operating Syscientology instead?
Environment for Bottom-feeders (Score:5, Interesting)
There are people in the Netherlands, who sink old fishing nets with attached bits to the bottom of the Oosterschelde estuary (it's a natural reserve, so it doesn't bother boats). Then they wait a few year, put on their diving suits, and go looking at those old fishing nets underwater.
You may wonder why people have this as a hobby.
They do it, because they fully expect that the extremely elusive and rare (in NL) Sepia [wikipedia.org] squids have found those fishing nets as a useful habitat, and found a mate in those murky waters, and have begun a family.
In a similar vein, your question seems really stupid and weird.
But I wonder what you get, if you create a habitat for extremely paranoid people, who like to sit in Captain Picard's chair, swim the murky waters of the Internet all day, unobserved by anyone else, give them the opportunity to meet and work with like-minded individuals, and take pride in manufacturing lies targetted for effect in the broader population. What would happen if you left such a habitat abandoned to the ebb & flow of the normal HR process of a large and rich organization for, say, 20 years. What kind of fascinating creatures would come floating to the top of the food chain?
Who knows. You're not allowed to find out. You'll never find out.
Scientology is the truth (Score:5, Funny)
Scientology is the truth! Both Tom Cruise _and_ John Travolta are scientologists. Do you believe me now?
Re:Scientology is the truth (Score:5, Insightful)
Scientology is the truth! Both Tom Cruise _and_ John Travolta are scientologists. Do you believe me now?
What, that it's been nothing but a sham and a glorified tax shelter for the elitists of society since inception?
A societal metric of ignorance by trying to present a known science fiction writer as a source of absolute truth and fact behind the origins of this "religion"? (as if there were a factual purpose behind the story of Xenu)
Fuck yes I believe you.
Re:Scientology is the truth (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Scientology is the truth (Score:5, Insightful)
It always looked to me like a third-rate science fiction author making up a religion that looks like his third-rate science fiction.
The amazing thing is that people have swallowed it, even people with lots of money, which might be taken as an indicator that they'd know better.
P.T. Barnum was right.
John Doe
(Son, brother, and father to those who wrote the "Closet" South Park episode.)
Re: (Score:3)
The amazing thing is that people have swallowed it, even people with lots of money, which might be taken as an indicator that they'd know better.
I think they have really excellent techniques to focus your mind, and to convince people. I've taken an Avatar course, whose founder was a former Scientology member. I haven't taken any Scientology courses, so I cannot tell from first hand, but I'm quite sure that the Avatar methods are based on what Scientology had to offer back then. I really don't like the Avatar organisation, but I really like their course. I did only the first week.
What I don't like about them? They want to "enlighten" the world with t
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
He wasn't a third rate science fiction author though. Read his book Final Blackout, about the war in Europe. In 1939, he correctly predicted which country would use the first nuclear bomb in warfare. (Spoiler, it was the US.) Back in the heyday of scifi, he was one of the biggest names.
Also, if you consider he knew enough about the human mind, as well as society, that he created a really crazy set of beliefs and got people to accept them. There are plenty of crackpot false messiahs out there. Not many build
Re:Scientology is the truth (Score:4, Insightful)
He wasn't a third rate science fiction author though. Read his book Final Blackout, about the war in Europe. In 1939, he correctly predicted which country would use the first nuclear bomb in warfare. (Spoiler, it was the US.) Back in the heyday of scifi, he was one of the biggest names.
Also, if you consider he knew enough about the human mind, as well as society, that he created a really crazy set of beliefs and got people to accept them. There are plenty of crackpot false messiahs out there. Not many build a system like his, and have it survive so well after the messiah's death.
He built a fictional world, and got others to believe in it. That's what writers do. So, please, don't consider him to be just another third-rate science fiction author.
You don't have to be a good author to make an occasional accurate prediction. Some really bad books have done as much. And how much of his fame was due to a talent for self-promotion I don't know; I never considered him one of the "big names" in SF.
Actually, I've only read one of his works, which was a Battlefield Earth volume I chanced to pick off the library shelf years ago. The main character reminded me of how the power figures often behave in Phillip K. Dick novels: corrupt, venal, self-serving, not very competent and prone to panic when their little worlds fall apart. But usually one can identify with the villains in a PKD story. LRon's nemesis was just an idiot. I don't even remember what the book was about, beyond an alien warlord tasked with softening up the Earth for invasion but actually wasting time feathering his nest.
So I'd have to call his writing third-rate. Forgettable.
Re: (Score:3)
Just for the record, I've read one or two of his stories, and I thought they were OK - I was, admittedly, about 11 years old at the time. And I can't honestly say that he was anything as good as Heinlein, Asimov or any of the other genuinely big names. Not by a lightyear. No, he was OK, just run-of-the-mill.
As for creating a religion - have you any idea how easy it is? Just look back at Mormonism, Spiritualism, Christian Science, Tarot, Astrology, etc etc. All you have to do is speak loudly and sound like y
Re: (Score:3)
I spent fifteen years working with, or near, a roomful of console operators on round-the-clock shifts. They had to man their consoles continuously, but had lots of dead time, so they were allowed to read.
One guy read one book, over and over, for the whole fifteen years. It was Battlefield Earth.
Re:Scientology is the truth (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Scientology is the truth (Score:5, Insightful)
What, that it's been nothing but a sham and a glorified tax shelter for the elitists of society since inception?
And this differs from other "legitimate" religions ... how?
Re: (Score:2)
It differs in that everyone in the upper levels knows that they get compensated on how much $s they extract from the newbies for their "courses."
Re:Scientology is the truth (Score:5, Insightful)
Cult: A small, unpopular religion.
Religion: A large, popular cult.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
forced abortions
slave labor
forceful breakups of families
fraud
murder
It's funny, 4 of the 5 things you mention are central to one of the world's major religions as well.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Pretty sure it's been central to all of the world's major religions from time to time.
Re: (Score:2)
The worst thing is that the scientology mytho isn't even his best work.
He wrote some interesting science fiction, but the Xenu story isn't really SF. It's bad fantasy.
Re: (Score:3)
A societal metric of ignorance by trying to present a known science fiction writer as a source of absolute truth and fact behind the origins of this "religion"?
So umm ... Did you mean L. Ron Hubbard or George Lucas? ;-)
Re:Scientology is the truth (Score:4, Funny)
Scientology is the truth! Both Tom Cruise _and_ John Travolta are scientologists. Do you believe me now?
If Scientology is the truth, does that mean that scientologists are truthers? That would make sense, mental disorders never come singly.
i get to watch (Score:5, Interesting)
those cult freaks swarm through the streets here, scuttling between the many local 'church' buildings... used to be that they would station young kids (many teenagers) at local flea markets to offer free massages and 'stress tests' to do recruiting...
lately, that approach has switched to the cult using immigrant and non-English speakers to entice other adherents...
CoS is a sickening, freakish cult that obfuscates real-estate and business ownerships, such as drug-rehab centers...
Re: (Score:3)
"CoS is a sickening, freakish cult that obfuscates real-estate and business ownerships, such as drug-rehab centers..."
All over Europe, they are considered an anti-constitutional movement and observed by diverse intelligence services.
In Germany by the 'Verfassungsschutz', translated literally as the 'Defender of the Constitution'.
Should have read their refunds policy (Score:5, Funny)
"one of whom said she was manipulated into handing over 20,000 euros in 1998 for Scientology products including an "electrometer" to measure mental energy"
she obviously wanted a refund because the meter reading was zero.
Hold hands and prey... (Score:5, Funny)
To be rid of these silly cults once and for all
Re:Hold hands and prey... (Score:5, Funny)
To be rid of these silly cults once and for all
Was the use of the word 'prey' instead of 'pray' deliberate?
Re:Hold hands and prey... (Score:5)
Now I don't know what stopped Jesus Christ
From turning every hungry stone into bread
And I don't remember hearing how Moses reacted
When the innocent first born sons lay dead
Well, I guess God was a lot more demonstrative
Back when he flamboyantly parted the sea
Now everybody's praying
Don't pray on me
Bad Religion
Scientology might be a cult (Score:3, Insightful)
But they don't behead unbelievers or crash airliners into buildings. Of course, that's probably why the French feel it's safe to fine Scientology.
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
Apparently you can cause all the social harm you want as long as it isn't in the form of a paramilitary action.
Re:Scientology might be a cult (Score:5, Informative)
There was a really crappy movie called The Profit which was about CoS. Even though the makers denied this, for obvious reasons, it just as obviously really was a biopic about El Ron.
CoS managed to get it banned because they argued it might influence the pending investigation if MacPherson's death, IIRC. Not sure what the status is now, but it goes to show the extent these people will go.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You comment is indeed a flamebait.
On the other hand, I just love your username, it's a fairly uncommon reference that's always nice to see mentioned.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Scientology might be a cult (Score:5, Funny)
Well, I'm an atheist towards the Dollar. I haven't seen one in so long, I don't believe they exist anymore.
Re:Scientology might be a cult (Score:4, Funny)
I think you have to go to The Street of Small Gods now.
Lol (Score:3, Insightful)
One Down (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:One Down (Score:5, Interesting)
What about those religions that aren't like Scientologists? For example, would the world really be a worse place off without Quakers or Jains or other strictly non-violent religions? How about those evil Unitarian Universalists, who basically have built their religion around "We may disagree about invisible beings in the sky, but that doesn't mean we should hate each other"? How about the deeply religious people who more-or-less invented philosophy, mathematics, physics, chemistry, genetics, astronomy, and a few other sciences - should we get rid of them too?
And atheists aren't immune from being the bad guy either: Communist atheists killed off a lot of people for being religious.
How about this for some morality: Killing people, except in defense of self or someone else, is wrong (and worshiping a different invisible guy or the same invisible guy differently isn't a very good reason). Torturing people is wrong. Raping people is wrong. Hurting people, except in defense of self or someone else, is wrong. Stealing (however done) is wrong, but less wrong than hurting, raping, torturing, or murdering. Groups that break those rules are bad, groups that don't are at worst harmless.
Re: (Score:2)
Some religions are strictly non-violent, but not perfect and have still harmed their followers, and families ...
Some Atheists are violent, just as some people are violent ... and remember most 'Communists' are/were Socialist republics and the atheist dogma was anti-religion mostly because then the only religion was the state, and the leader was the leader of a cult ....(Stalin, Mao ...)
Most/All religions say that killing is wrong, but almost all of the allow killing of certain people in the right circumstan
Re: (Score:2)
Most societies make the same claim about the allowable circumstances for killing certain people. They may define the circumstances differently but almost all allow it in some form.
Re: (Score:2)
Killing people is wrong, you say. How about killing someone who's murdered people in the past and who COULD (but not necessarily will) murder more? How about killing someone who wants to die, for instance for medical reasons? How about war, where your country may be on the defensive but you may be on the offensive? Heck, how
Re: One Down (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
So, geminidomino is claiming that it is ok to torture, steal, rape and murder as long as you wait until you are at least 7 years old?
SubjectsInCommentsAreStupid (Score:2)
CommentInSubjectAreBetter (Score:2)
Scientology is a religion (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Scientology is a religion (Score:4, Interesting)
That's not a definition I'm familiar with. What about cults without founders? Do the cargo cults automatically, or never, reach status of religion given that John Frum has never existed?
I prefer the standard "a religion is a cult with an army and a navy". It's an arbitrary definition to do with scale.
Re: (Score:3)
Mythical creatures are obviously not founders so the statement applies not to Mr. Frum, but to whoever invented him as an object to be worshiped.
looking at this [wikipedia.org] I don't think that Sikhs or any of the "medium sized religions" have an army or a navy which makes that definition somewhat problematic.
Re: (Score:3)
Well observed about Frum. I do wonder about cults where there isn't an easily assigned founder, they seem to have arisen spontaneously.
The point of my definition is to suggest that such a distinction is not as meaningful as it appears to be. In all seriousness, I think the distinction has more to do with age and therefore cultural acceptance and normalisation.
Scientology is a religion? Reeeeally? (Score:2)
Re: Scientology is a religion (Score:2)
Re: Scientology is a religion (Score:2, Interesting)
Hubbfart (Hubbard) himself said (direct unaltered quote) : "Scientology is no religion"
It was starter as Dianetics as self-help company to make him a lot of money. The pseudo-religious veneer was invented to protect its business in the 50/60s when the FBI and the IRS chased Hubbfart abs he was prosecuted.
It was a trick. But it is NOT a religion.
Re: (Score:2)
Sorry, but not all religions are created equal. It's not the "believe in sky wizards" part that's the problem. It's the "kill/murder/hurt anyone who dares question or refuses to believe in the sky wizards" part that's the problem. And on a scale of 1 to 10 of religions that scare me (1 being Unitarians and 10 being smelly Muslim goat farmers who think that God wants them to strap on explosives and blow themselves up in a mall), Scientology rates an easy 9 (at one time a 9.5, but they seem to be getting weak
Good! It's not a religion (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Good! It's not a religion (Score:5, Insightful)
All of the Abrahamic religions are based on about the same amount of proof and evidence. If you doubt one, you must doubt them all and for the same reasons. Just because Joseph Smith pulled the same stunt more recently and on this continent doesn't invalidate that the basis, principles and mechanics of the religion. So as you point to one aspect which is wrong with the LDS church, there is an analogue of the same problem in the other Abrahamic religions. And to be clear, they are all Abrahamic religions.
To me, that's the most ridiculous aspect of religious people. They are quick to point at others and completely miss that it's a huge matter of all the pots calling each other black. "Oh but my religion is different!" Yeah sure it is. If any of them are different, it's Islam and only because it was founded by a frikken murderous warlord.
My initial reaction to the story was "Good! Now maybe people will begin to see the others as stupid too!" Perhaps not. Religion holds back the potential of the human mind. So long as we can accept two opposing ideas as fact and so long as belief is more powerful than fact, humans will be crippled slaves and will not survive the next mass extinction event. We still can't get beyond our primitive need for monetary exchange because no one does anything "for mankind." Everything requires someone else get paid for something and we will continue to exploit workers until their miserable deaths. Religion is the distraction being used to keep people thinking about something other than reality.
Re:Good! It's not a religion (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Good! It's not a religion (Score:4, Insightful)
Scientology is a cult, it's entire story is based off a science fiction novel written by man who wanted to make a religion! All of that would be fine but then to charge your members fees to read from books is kind of messed up, that would be like the library charging you based on every book you took out. I don't see how any logical adult can honestly see Scientology as anything but a joke, it's only slightly more a joke then the Mormon based religion, both of which have near 0 evidence for what they take as fact.
And Islam is the "revealed truth" that its prophet made up. And Christianity reveals the "word of God" through the medium of a mystic who thought he was the messiah. And the Buddha came up with his own ideas for a religion. I guess a non-cult religion is one derived millenia ago from various polytheistic myths (Hinduism, Shinto, Paganism) but somebody, somewhere made that stuff up too.
Re: (Score:3)
The Buddah really came up with more of a philosophy and moral system. It just mutated very quickly into a religion with the usual compliment of traditional rules and rituals.
Re: (Score:3)
Congratulations! You've invented the book store... In a few years they won't exist, and you can rediscover them.
Re: (Score:2)
Place the beginnings of Christianity in current times and you would have the same reaction. Scientology just seems silly because it's so recent and easy to disprove. Hard to argue with the founders of Christianity now...
Two wrongs don't make a right.
Re: (Score:2)
"prevent errors in translation and copying" Nice, except the originals were mostly not written in Latin.
Re: (Score:3)
Sounds like Christianity. No evidence outside their single reference book, even when the Europe had been documenting everything for several hundred years, no a single Jesus entry has ever been found.
Simply not true [wikipedia.org]
The only difference between a cult and a religion (Score:5, Informative)
is the number of followers...
Re:The only difference between a cult and a religi (Score:5, Insightful)
"I have just as much authority as the Pope, but fewer people believe it."
George Carlin
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
In France, the difference between a cult and a religion is whether they preach being open to the rest of society, versus hiding what you're doing from others.
From a society standpoint, this is the only important criteria.
By that definition, CoS is a cult.
Regarded as a cult? (Score:4, Insightful)
Nothing about regarding, it is a fact. Scientology IS a cult.
How could anyone possible think otherwise considering what the founder said?
"You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion."
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/L._Ron_Hubbard [wikiquote.org]
Re:Regarded as a cult? (Score:5, Interesting)
France distinguishes between "legitimate" religious activity and predatory cults, and therefore how France regards Scientology is absolutely relevant to this news item.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Why discriminate against religions invented in this century vs the ones created prior? They're either all religions or they're all cults. The latter term is more apt in most cases. Take Catholicism. Excommunication: Come out as an atheist and the whole community, even ones family will shun you... 10% of your income in tithes, that's fucking expensive 'eh? In some cases moreso than CoS fees. The whole "you're unclean unless you do these rituals" and guilt trips... Same as CoS body thetans. Influencing
And yet on their wikipedia page... (Score:2, Informative)
4th paragraph [wikipedia.org]:
As if being convicted in a court of law for organised fraud is just an opinion of an unspecified number of critics...
How about this get added in the 2nd paragraph:
I used to be a Scientologist (Score:5, Funny)
but I ran out of money.
Obligatory (Score:5, Funny)
The Venn Diagram of Irrational Nonsense [jwz.org]
Slippery Slope (Score:2)
I HOPE this is a slippery slope that exposes all religions as cults. Scientology is just one or the more ridiculous and exploitive ones. Any organization that uses unprovable assertions without any reasonable scientific framework to exploit its gullible members should be shut down.
Comment removed (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
It shouldn't matter whether it's a cult or a religion; if someone got fired for not undergoing religious courses and testing, that should be treated the same way by the law.
Agreed. The only exception I can see that should be allowed is where a position would be concerned with ministering. e.g. fine if x religion doesn't want to employ a gay black woman as a priest, but not so acceptable if they require the janitor to sign a statement of faith.
To some extent, people need to be aware of the roles in to which they are going. If I were black, it'd be disingenuous to claim discrimination if I were applying to be a Mormon elder prior to the "Hey guys! God told me that he changed hi
So (Score:4, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
Freedom of religion is an issue here though, inasmuch that the disinclination to interfere with religious practices has broadened into a more general lack of oversight of the organisation. If it was a particular township or family that had a long history of abuse, it would be investigated very extensively. However the social obligation not to tread on Scientology's religious practices - such as handing over thousands and thousands of dollars - is trumping the social obligation to prosecute it.
That's a thorn
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
They're free to believe whatever they want, but what they're not allowed to do is harm others. If they harm people (scam them, physically harm them, cause them to die by giving them nonsensical advice on how to cure a disease or illness, etc.), they can be prosecuted for it. It has little to do with freedom of religion.
Re: (Score:2)
Well, exactly. The issue is that well-meaning efforts to protect religious freedom also shelter such harmful acts.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
The USA has a rather terrific record on Freedom of Religion. That's one tradition we haven't screwed up yet. France is another story, they have a truly dreadful record. This article is about France.
Re:Scientology: (Score:5, Informative)
Proof that freedom of Religion isn't always a good thing...
As always you need to judge people and organisations by their actions and not their words.
Re:Scientology: (Score:5, Insightful)
Tolerance means refraining from using coercion to stop people from doing things that piss you off. An enlightened society tolerates religious differences, but not crime.
Scientology pisses me off, but I am prepared to tolerate its existence. I will speak out against it but I do not want the government (French or my own) to forcibly shut it down or punish people just for following it. What I am not prepared to tolerate is criminal behavior by individual Scientologists. If they defrauded people, lock 'em up like Bernie Madoff. I am not ashamed to be intolerant of fraud.
So I don't think freedom of religion is a bad thing. The fraud is not a result of religious freedom, it's a result of immoral choices by members of a religious organization.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
There wouldn't be as many AIDS patients if the church hadn't condemned condoms as an unnatural perversion of God's law.
Re: (Score:2)
Freedom of Religion is irrelevant in this case since we only have the word of the obvious scammers themselves that it's a "Religion", while we also have their word that it's a good way to dodge tax and that they took up the "Religion" angle late in the game after "Dianetics".
Re:Scientology: (Score:5, Insightful)
99% of their scam is to pretend to be a religion to make it more difficult to stop their scam. They are no more a religion than My Little Pony fandom is. It's not as if we don't have dozens of clues that it's a scam.
Freedom of Religion is irrelevant in this case since we only have the word of the obvious scammers themselves that it's a "Religion", while we also have their word that it's a good way to dodge tax and that they took up the "Religion" angle late in the game after "Dianetics".
No, using the word "religion" is precisely what makes Freedom of Religion relevant - doesn't matter who says it, doesn't matter who believes it.
What is wrong, and what is not in the Constitution, is that any religions are tax exempt. They are all in business - might be the business of saving souls, but the only outward sign is that they're in the business of drinking wine, lighting candles and ringing bells for fun and entertainment. They all should be taxed just like any other nightclub.
Give nobody any perverse incentives to create one, and we'll have a lot fewer of them to deal with.
Re: (Score:2)
If by that you mean freedom to have different values and priorities than you do, then yes, that does seem pretty important. It's fine by me if you disapprove of faith, but do you seriously think people should not be free to have it?
Re:Still (Score:4, Informative)
Oh, piss off. If you're too stupid to differentiate between the religion and the extremist interpretation of the religion, then I really pity you. I'm also shocked that this has been modded *UP* rather than down as "troll" or "flamebait".
Scientology is, as has already been pointed out, a cult started by a Sci-Fi author who wanted to make a lot of money. Islam is a religion, and there are millions of truly faithful Muslims out there who are every bit as peaceful in their daily life as the millions of truly faithful Christians (or Hindus, or Buddhists, or Sikhs, or followers of x y or z other faiths).
Just in the same way most Irish weren't involved in blowing up each other / the British during the height of the Troubles (note this was a war about the difference between the two main groups of Christianity (Catholicism and Protestantism) and about occupation/independence, and *nobody* was saying shit back then about "all Christians are terrorists".
Those who blow themselves and other people up while claiming they're doing it in the name of Islam are idiots, and are delusional. The average suicide bomber has been brainwashed into it by the sorts of horrific people (i.e. Osama Bin Laden / Al Qaeda and other like-minded organizations) who recognize the power of religious belief and exploit that to their own ends - i.e. money and power. That's what it comes down to, not religion. If they can recruit young and impressionable enough people, and present themselves to these people as priests and clerics, and preach to them that God will reward them if they commit these acts, then it's far more likely to succeed then just placing a wanted ad for soldiers.
TL:DR version - I think you're an idiot - "terrorist" and "muslim" are not interchangeable terms.
Re: (Score:2)
for really morbid laugh search up buddhist deathsquads.
wackos are in every religion or rather wackos use every religion to further their agenda. that doesn't make every religion totally harmful.
scientology on the other hand is just about taking your money and selling you bullshit.
Re: (Score:2)
The same reason why alcohol is legally permissible while some less harmless drugs are illegal - cultural entrenchment.
The substantial difference I can see is in how Scientology is more up-front about charging for its services than some of the more established religions. Most mainstream Christian churches I've seen are more about optional donations (with obvious peer pressure) than offering a price-list. I'd give Scientology the benefit of the doubt if the services they offer to paying customers would be ava
Re: (Score:3)
http://atheisme.free.fr/Religion/Sectes_liste.htm
It's not really a "singling out", but yeah, Les Témoins de Jéhovah are on there.