German NSA Critic Denied Entry To the US 352
An anonymous reader writes "Major newspapers in Germany (FAZ, Die Welt, SZ, ...) and the Huffington Post report that the author Ilja Trojanow has been prevented from boarding a plane from Salvador da Bahia to the U.S. where he was invited to attend a conference. He had ESTA documents showing that his visit was approved as part of the Visa Waiver Program and was last year given a visa to teach at the university of Saint Louis. Trojanow was one of the initiators of an open letter (Google translation to English) urging Chancellor Merkel to take actions against NSA surveillance in Germany."
Arm Bands (Score:3, Interesting)
Since we are going full-on Totalitarian Police State, can we get cool Hugo Boss suits with colorful arm bands?
Time for DHS/FEMA to start filling up those Concentration Camps they've been building.
Re:Arm Bands (Score:5, Insightful)
The ones left over from when they imprisoned Americans of Japanese ancestry?
Re: (Score:2)
Yep. During the Roosevelt administration, if I remember correctly.
Re:Arm Bands (Score:4, Informative)
...and don't forget the good ol' Bellamy Salute [wikipedia.org], as American as apple pie.
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Since we are going full-on Totalitarian Police State, can we get cool Hugo Boss suits with colorful arm bands?
Time for DHS/FEMA to start filling up those Concentration Camps they've been building.
This is nothing new. I know a few people who were denied entry into the USA, none of them could think of a reason why and the embassy never gives a reason. All of these people are University graduates, all have clean criminal records, none of them was planning to the US on a tourist visa and stay illegally nor does any of them have ties to Al Qaeda... they aren't even moslems. The closest I have found to a reason is an engineer buddy of mine who was invited to an all expenses paid technical conference by a
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Hopefully we can use what he have learned at Gitmo to improve efficiency.
Fifty Shades of Gray for everyone!
Awesome (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Awesome (Score:5, Interesting)
Nothing you can do will bring about a faster or harsher reaction from Government than challenging their power. This is true of any Government. Though the US seems to be getting harsher and harsher about it.
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My diagnosis is that these are the desperate throes of a doomed regime.
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It's a declining empire, it's going to do more and more ridiculous things to maintain it's position at the top of the heap.
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Put it this way:
Yes, it's bad for the government to collect detailed individual histories on each of it's citizens. But if it's going to do that anyway it would be nice to get some benefit from it.
Re:Awesome (Score:5, Insightful)
Wrong on both counts there. For one, that's not an argument trotted out by anyone. It's a blatant strawman. I know of the argument you're referring to, and it's more complicated than that.
For two, even if it were an argument, this doesn't even refute it. You've had a suspicious event and a possible explanation that fits your worldview handed to you. The entire "refutation" comes from confirmation bias.
Not that I should have to say this, but please note I'm not saying the government is trustworthy. Power in the hands of humanity is inherently untrustworthy, and I think you'd be hard-pressed to find people who disagree there. I'm also not saying that the government isn't doing something shady here, or the explanation you've leapt to is wrong. But, for the sake human rationality, please think before leaping to conclusions.
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Power in the hands of humanity is inherently untrustworthy.
Can we stop concentrating power then? How about if we keep more power with individuals? Since the government has a military and a police force and uses violence and threats against people who oppose them, they should be the last "inherently untrustworthy" humans who should ever be allowed more power.
Re:Awesome (Score:5, Insightful)
I know it must be hard for some of you guys who have lived there all your life being brainwashed from birth all through school, etc - but your constitution and the right to bear arms was written specifically because the founding fathers wanted to ensure that you guys had an option if you didn't trust your government.
You've kept the right to bear arms bit so far, but it's about time you got around to that holding your government accountable to the people bit.
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You know that the U.S. Constitution really hasn't mattered ever since Lincoln wiped his ass with it and went to war with half the nation, right? The people who took up the option you allude to lost and this nation has been federalist in name only since the end of the Civil War. The government has just used more perverse interpretations of the Constitution since that time. For example, look at like 99% of the federal laws that rely on the Commerce Clause as their justification for existence.
At some point a n
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And this is my point. The founding fathers clearly could foresee this sort of thing happening and wrote into the constitution provisions for the people to oust a hostile government. For all the harping on a lot of people do about your rights over there, there's been a distinct lack of action with regards to keeping your government in check.
You can't have it both ways. If you want those rights, you need to ensure those in charge uphold them. And if they don't take action.
The fact that you guys have
Re:Awesome (Score:5, Interesting)
Ahh yes, exactly what we need. A dead document on delivery that lays out whats allowed and what's not, whatever happends next be damned.
The constitution was written the way it was for some very good reasons. What do you suppose is going to exist, say 100 years from now? Do you think 100 years ago anyone forsaw 3d printing? The Internet? Cell Phones? Nuclear weapons? Jet Fighters that can exceed the speed of sound?
If you write a document like that, ridged, unforgiving, you end up with something that works for about 10 years then needs to be rewritten. Abstract interpretation is very important. Its also clearly a huge problem when people take things like "secure in your papers in effects" to not cover things like Email and IM conversations, but thats more because we're a bunch of corrupt jerks than anything else.
We're just experiencing the very thing they forsaw when they wrote this thing, eventually people will corrupt anything you give them. Eventually, you're left with little choice than to take over and redo large parts of the goverment. The nice part is we have legal, non-lethal means to do that, right now. The problem is they're not being used, yet. It remains to be seen if they ever will be.
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This pretty much blows away the "trust the government - it would never abuse its power" argument the apologists like to trot out so readily.
Who the hell are those people? The only people I've heard make that argument were congressmen and pundits who religiously support their party.
Another Victory! (Score:4, Funny)
You can thank the NSA for stopping this wanton criminal before he can enter the US.
Re:Another Victory! (Score:5, Funny)
I knew it! He was really Chinese!
Re:Another Victory! (Score:5, Funny)
No, it's obvious he was planning to become an illegal immigrant and conceal himself in plain sight among the natives.
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they knew this. they knew that, an hour later, he'd just try to re-enter the country again!
Sigh ... (Score:5, Informative)
... the story only shows that German media outlets are not familiar with US entry regulations. He says that he was denied a visa last year [faz.net], which automatically disqualifies him from the visa waiver program. This is just a garden-variety ESTA issue, and most likely has nothing to do with his stance of the NSA surveillance.
Re:Sigh ... (Score:4, Informative)
From googles translate, but it doesn't to me like he was denied as it was eventually issued?
Untrue the visa was given afterward (Score:5, Informative)
Already last year had firstly denied the american consulat in Munic the request for work visa as guest professor in university st louis, and only after protest of the university et delay , with which made a part of the semester useless , gave the visa.
Therefore this is all US BS.
Re:Plus he had an ESTA confirmation (Score:5, Informative)
That, and he also had an ESTA confirmation. His name should not have been on the secret no-fly list and there shouldn't be a secret no-fly list in the first place.
the esta means that he wasn't on the no-fly list. that's pretty much the point of the esta. and also to extract money from everyone visiting but that's another thing.
that he was denied after that means that he is on some other secret list. isn't it wonderful to have multiple secret lists of "unwanted" people?
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What are you talking about? The article you link to doesn't say anywhere that his visum was denied. It says he had a printed confirmation that his ESTA status said "authorization approved".
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You mean secret police state like no fly list?
Is that what you are calling garden variety, comrade?
Re:Sigh ... (Score:4, Informative)
No, being denied a visa does not make you ineligible for the visa waiver program. You are however cautioned that if the immigration officer determines you're coming on a visa waiver to do whatever it was you needed a visa for, you can be denied entry.
I've been denied a visa in the past (and just like this German guy, my visa was ultimately issued after some extra paperwork round-trips) but I've never had any trouble entering the US under the visa waiver program.
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Government shutdown (Score:5, Funny)
Probably more due to the fact that there simply isn't anyone around to process his visa and let him into the country.
With that name ? (Score:3)
Sorry, but barring Trojans from entering your systems is just basic computer security.
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Yep, keeping those Trojans out is a vital security measure, as discovered the hard way by King Menelaus of Sparta.
Misleading article (Score:5, Insightful)
FTA:
"The woman told me curtly and without emotion that entry to the United States was being denied to me - without giving any reason," Trojanow told the German newspaper the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung on Tuesday.
It then later says that his co-author CLAIMS he was denied entry for his views. At no point does the article state why he was denied entry. Tying it to the NSA is the European Media trying to make a story out of nothing. It is largely an opinion piece based on very little evidence.
As for the Huffington Post article - well, it IS the Huffington Post. Whether you trust them or not is really more of where your personal views stand.
There just really is not enough information given. He was denied entry. That is all we know. Everything else is circumstancial evidence.
Denial (Score:2)
Who is in it now?
There is liberty (Score:3)
“When the people fear the government there is tyranny, when the government fears the people there is liberty.” - John Basil Barnhill 1914
In 1914 who could have predicted the NSA? Today it would write “When the people fear the government there is tyranny, when the government fears the people there is the NSA. America is what you get when you have both"
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In the USA, freedom of speech exercises YOU!
Ahh, Apologists (Score:2)
Apologists, please extract your heads from your own asses before your fellow citizens are compelled to do it for you. The NSA and many, many other revelations have firmly ripped away the curtain you're trying so very very hard to clutch about your loins. If we ever had representative democracy in this country, it is now surely gone. All of us have to take the measure of our own hearts and decide how much we're willing to do to get it back. Me, I'll gladly give my life if it means my kids won't grow up s
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No, but I do remember when artists critical of the war were denied entry into the United States under Bush...
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Yeah... During the last administration, dubya's critics and political opponents (Up to and including Ted Kennedy, for example.) just happened to mysteriously and "accidentally" find themselves accused of being terrorists and placed on the no-fly list.
Yup. No abuse of power or civil liberties there. Nosirrre bob.
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People randomly ended up on the list regardless of party affiliation. No targeted abuse of power, just a stupid program.
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If only it were the same situation. While some liberal groups were singled out for scrutiny, conservative groups received special treatment far beyond that, their applications put on hold simply because of keywords.
However, the illegal release of tax returns of a conservative group to liberal operatives was a simple mistake. The IRS employee was duped into releasing them. The release of the confidential applications was also likely clerical error.
Re:Remember all those times Bush blocked... (Score:5, Informative)
Adam Habib was denied entrance [washingtontimes.com] in 2006.
Re:Remember all those times Bush blocked... (Score:5, Interesting)
Once again, Obama proves he's a worse President for civil liberties than Bush ever was.
I had to Godwin this thread, but that's like saying Hitler wasn't so bad because Stalin killed millions more people. Obama, for the most part, has lost my support, but that certainly doesn't mean I wish Bush Jr. were still president. If I could choose any politician to appoint to the presidency, it would probably be Ron Wyden. Unfortunately, it looks like I'll probably be stuck voting for Rand Paul next election, despite the fact that I vehemently disagree with his economic beliefs, because civil liberties in this country have eroded so much and I don't think Wyden will be in the running (fucking Democrats will probably nominate another jackass who toes the establishment line similar to Obama).
Re:Remember all those times Bush blocked... (Score:5, Interesting)
IF GWB was president, the Democrats would pretend to care about civil liberties, there would be some real hearings on the NSA, Nixon's healthcare plan with the liberal parts stripped out wouldn't be the law, there would be blowback for spying on the press and prosecuting whistleblowers under the Espionage Act at a rate 3x that of all other presidents since it's enactment in the early 1900s, the president might still feel the need to trick or lie his way to getting Congress to approve a war but Libya basically killed the War Powers Act ... on and on and on.
What Obama has done, is take what was considered an abusive extension/usurpation of power by the Executive branch, and made it the bipartisan consensus. So yeah, Obama is worse than GWB because instead of rolling back the abuse, he embraced it, extended it, and with the silence of his supporters and party, cemented it forever as the new normal.
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Wait, so what you're saying is that if Bush were still in office and did this then the Democrats would call him out on it, but since Obama is doing the same thing but not being called out on it by the Republicans it makes Obama worse?
That makes absolutely no fucking sense. The only real difference is that the Republicans are fucking up extra hard because they can't be bothered to oppose totalitarianism even when its their alleged opponents that are doing it!
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Remember who created this program in the first place? The no-entry list has become a popularity list and it just gets longer.
Re:Remember all those times Bush blocked... (Score:4, Interesting)
...critics of the NSA from entering our country?
Me neither.
Once again, Obama proves he's a worse President for civil liberties than Bush ever was.
I'm not sure that the US believes that foreigners have civil liberties. Certainly not the Canadian that Bush had kidnapped and sent abroad for torture.
Actually, the US has always had a tendency to block people from entering the country, if the government didn't like what they had to say. These abuses didn't start with Obama (or Bush) or the NSA. Throughout most of the 20th century, it was communists and anarchists who were blocked from entering. And prominent opponents of [insert whichever war the US is engaged in at the moment. (This sort of abuse is not unique to the USA, either.)
The only way to completely prevent these abuses is to get rid of the border guards.
Re:Remember all those times Bush blocked... (Score:5, Insightful)
Thank you for immediately hijacking the conversation away from anything useful and steering it towards partisan politics. This is, of course, by design. Still, without people like you, the plan would fail from time to time, and real change might happen. Wouldn't want that! Divide and conquer works best when there is a innate DESIRE to be divided, when the subject WANTS to fight itself rather uniting to do anything productive. We really appreciate your efforts to keep our program safe. Keep up the good work!
Reguards,
The NSA
Re: (Score:2)
...critics of the NSA from entering our country?
No, but I remember the time he put Ted Kennedy on the Do Not Fly List. I guess there's no danger of that happening now.
Re:Remember all those times Bush blocked... (Score:5, Insightful)
No one is claiming he has a "right" to enter the US.
Quite a few of us are wondering what is happening to our land of the free, however. This guy was coming to attend an academic conference.
That said, TFA is not really journalism, and fails to even mention an attempt to contact American authorities for an explanation.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
One wonders where the Constitution specifically allows political parties to deny entrance to invited guests purely for speech reasons. Probably the same part of the Constitution that grants the government the power to search citizens' papers witbout permission as you enter.
Let these be lessons of wisdom at how quickly f
Re:Remember all those times Bush blocked... (Score:5, Insightful)
Since when
Until this guy was stopped. We are the country that hosts the damn UN. What the heck are we afraid of? This guy is totally non-violent.
Switzerland, Austria, Kenya (Score:5, Informative)
"We are the country that hosts the damn UN."
Except Switzerland, Austria, and Kenya.
Geneva - "The United Nations Office at Geneva (UNOG) is the second largest United Nations centre after the Headquarters in New York. UNOG is housed in the Palais des Nations, an outstanding testimony to twentieth century architecture, situated in a beautiful park overlooking Lake Geneva, with a splendid view of the Alps and, on a clear day, Mont Blanc.
The League of Nations was established in 1919 following the devastation caused by the First World War. It was decided to erect a building at par with the League’s aspirations for the creation of a more stable world. The Palais was erected between 1929 and 1938 and donations from Member States have largely contributed to its interior design.
The Palais stands in the 45-hectare Ariana Park among majestic trees many of which are over 100 years old. The City of Geneva has made the park available to the United Nations for its offices for as long as the United Nations exists."
Vienna - "Along with New York, Geneva and Nairobi, Vienna is one of the four headquarters of the United Nations. The Vienna International Centre (VIC), commonly known as "UN City", was designed by Austrian architect Johann Staber and construction costs were borne by the host country. Opened on 23 August 1979, it has been rented to the United Nations for 99 years at a symbolic rate of 1 Austrian schilling (7 Euro cents) annually.
The VIC complex, which covers an area of 180,000 m, has extraterritorial status; it accommodates about 4,200 international civil servants from over 100 countries and its 14 conference rooms host an average of 2,000 conferences annually. Located at the Centre are the United Nations Office at Vienna (UNOV), the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), the Preparatory Commission for the Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty Organization (CTBTO PrepCom), the United Nations Industrial Development Organization (UNIDO), the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC), the United Nations Office for Outer Space Affairs (UNOOSA), as well as a number of smaller UN Offices and entities.
On daily guided tours, visitors can learn about the work of the United Nations and experience the Vienna International Centre's striking architecture and vibrant, cosmopolitan atmosphere. Special programmes for children and school groups are available and visitors can also book a lecture or specialized tour on the art on display at the VIC."
Nairobi - "Established in 1996, the United Nations Office in Nairobi (UNON) is the only UN Headquarters in Africa and in the global south. The United Nations compound is located in Gigiri, on the outskirts of Kenya’s capital city, Nairobi, which is said to enjoy an almost perfect climate with warm sunny days and cool evenings.
The UN presence in Kenya dates back to the 1950s when Kenya was still a colony of the United Kingdom. After Kenya gained its independence in 1963, the UN expanded its presence in the country, especially when it became host to the fledgling United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) in 1973. Originally located at Uchumi House in the Nairobi city centre, UNEP was soon moved to the Kenyatta Conference Centre in 1974, before moving to its current location in Gigiri in 1975. In 1978, United Nations Centre for Human Settlements, now known as United Nations Human Settlements Programme (UN-Habitat) also joined UNEP in Gigiri.
The Visitors’ Service in Nairobi conducts guided tours on Mondays to Fridays, year-round. Visitors are briefed on the role of the United Nations as well as the functions of its funds, programmes and specialized agencies, especially those based in Nairobi. Special briefings by representatives of various UN offices in Kenya are also offered upon request. Following the briefing, visitors enjoy a walking tour of the complex which includes stops at various symbolic gifts donated to the UN, including the 1998 Bomb-blast Memorial Garden, which pays tribute to the in
Re:Remember all those times Bush blocked... (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, you mean like Castro, Ahmajinedad, and Gaddafi, right? Oops, must have been someone else.
Re: (Score:3)
That was my point - we let ANYONE in for the UN, so why would an obscure academic concern us?
Re:Remember all those times Bush blocked... (Score:5, Insightful)
"Since when does a foreign citizen who actively works AGAINST the interests of the US government allowed freedoms to enter the United States?"
Freedom means just that, allowing disagreements, if you let only people have freedom who agree with you, that's not freedom.
The NSA works against the interest of the US, since it makes millions of customer move their online business to Non-US entities.
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Can we PLEASE deport the NSA?
Yes, they will no doubt start spying for the highest bidder and we'll still have problems with them, but at least someone else will have to pay for it then.
Of course, but... (Score:2)
Where do you want them deported to? What is their country of origin?
(tip: It would seem "In Soviet Russia..." would make use of it, but no, they had their own. Quite different.)
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Gitmo. Send them there.
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Re:Remember all those times Bush blocked... (Score:5, Insightful)
"Since when does a foreign citizen who actively works AGAINST the interests of the US government allowed freedoms to enter the United States?"
Also, this is a very dangerous statement to make. Just because someone accepting this line could assume that every visitor and citizen of the US is willing to spy on another country (which in case you don't know it is illegal and punishable by the highest punishment in every country). It opens the door to preemptive deny of freedoms (which is actually the topic of discussion).
Re:Remember all those times Bush blocked... (Score:5, Insightful)
Since when does a foreign citizen who actively works AGAINST the interests of the US government allowed freedoms to enter the United States?
since you allowed dissident opinions. you used to. are you trying to argue that anyone who visits usa should be an active traitor to their own country in order to gain access? you got any idea how fucked up that sounds between supposedly friendly nations? you really want to lose all international business, all international relevance as being a hub for conferences?
that's why UN is in the USA among other things. of course it can also be easily argued that what the NSA is doing isn't in the best interest of USA government, it's becoming increasingly easily to argue that USA government isn't doing things in the interest of USA government or even USA.
that being an NSA critic has turned into being the same as having a communist party membership in the '50's is quite telling of how your nsa-stasi is running and ruining your country. their gathering for intelligence is increasingly aimed at just keeping their agency going. welfare? "fuck that, as long as we can keep tabs on who is complaining about lack of welfare".
and now you just bomb people with dissident opinion even if they don't enter USA - along with whoever has to associate themselves with people having those opinions. go sit in the corner in shame.
The UN is in the USA... (Score:5, Interesting)
Because, in the late 1940s, it was basically the only industrial power not deeply into reconstructing their torn economy and infrastructure. Not because any other country recognized the moral supremacy of the USA's national definitions, not because the USA grants anybody guarantees to dissent.
The United Nations is juridically akin to the various embassies. It is international territory, not USA territory. It might be phisically located in Manhattan, New York, but is not because New York is (or ever was) the hippest place to talk freely about the evil bad guys.
Re:Remember all those times Bush blocked... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, it's really horrible that he doesn't want his own country spied on.
A real bad actor, this guy.
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What if you were banned from entering the EU for saying that? Maybe you don't care about the EU and don't want to travel there. Or maybe you do.
At any rate, you might like to hear an explanation.
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There are several americans banned from entering eu countries for speech.
Anyways, bush had no problem (at least publically) with chavez and that iran president who called him satan entering the country and spewing thier crap.
Re:Remember all those times Bush blocked... (Score:5, Insightful)
He is also actively working for the freedom of the US population, but I guess you consider that unamerican.
Re:Remember all those times Bush blocked... (Score:5, Insightful)
Since when does a foreign citizen who actively works AGAINST the interests of the US government allowed freedoms to enter the United States?
If he was encouraging people to make bombing attacks on US soil, or encouraging the southern states to take another crack at secession, I'd concede your point but this guy is being denied entry for exercising freedom of speech. If another country, your ally, is spying on you, surely you are well within your rights to petition your own leader to do something about it? Or perhaps you think that it would be acceptable for the UK government to deny entry to any US citizen who criticized BP over the Deepwater Horizon oil spill? This is a clear case of sore-loser syndrome.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the whole FREEDOM thing pertain to the citizens specifically?
You are wrong. Freedom is endowed by our creator, not by the US government. Therefore, everyone is inherently free, not just Americans.
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Anyone or anything you want, except the government.
The Government Whisperer (Score:2, Interesting)
The people's and country's interests are always going to be against the government's interests. Recognizing that, and then having the government submit to us all, is kind of the whole point of America.
Unfortunately, we've become a nation of bad dog owners. Our dog misbehaves and doesn't submit. Cesar Milan tells us to use calm assertive energy (i.e. votes) to dominat
Re:Remember all those times Bush blocked... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Remember all those times Bush blocked... (Score:5, Insightful)
Right now, the Republicans are actively working against the interests of the united states. We don't just let them stay here, but we let them vote in congress as well. In fact, they shut down the country over a law they don't like. This should be considered terrorism and a denial-of-service attack (Liberal version)
Right now, the Democrats are actively working against the interests of the united states. We don't just let them stay here, but we let them vote in congress as well. They are socializing our United States. (Conservative version)
Either way, participation in a a dialog is natural discourse and should not be grounds for non-admittance.
Re:Remember all those times Bush blocked... (Score:4, Interesting)
Since when does a foreign citizen who actively works AGAINST the interests of the US government allowed freedoms to enter the United States?
Maybe so we don't look like hypocritical petty assholes who don't actually believe in things like freedom of speech, freedom to peacefully assemble, and freedom to voice our grievances.
The American principals that some of us were taught are that these aren't simply rights granted to citizens by the generosity of the state, but fundamental human rights and the state is specifically recognizing as such, and vowing to protect.
This isn't about left or right. Bush's administration had peaceful critics who were American citizens on no-fly lists. There has been abuse of power by the government in general.
I'm super critical of tea-party and libertarian types, but they aren't wrong about everything. They are speaking the truth when they say government is becoming too powerful and oppressive.
Re:Remember all those times Bush blocked... (Score:5, Informative)
The last time I checked US embassies principally do not dispense explanations for refusing visa applications denied for political reasons. All you get is a politely worded letter that boils down to a big fat NO.
He's German. He doesn't need a visa....
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Not a visa, but he does need to register with, and be accepted through, the visa waiver program.
Which he supposedly was, so in theory someone within the US security theatre system had approved him already.
(But then again, I've used that ETSA/visa waiver program website, and it's remarkably piss poor, you get very very little in the way of any acknowledgement or notification of what your status is under the program, and on the whole feels more like a tourist tax than anything else.)
(ESTA = Electronic System
Re:Remember all those times Bush blocked... (Score:5, Insightful)
Precisely. The amount of personal authority given to border personnel in the U.S.A. is utterly absurd, such that even the slightest notion in the person's mind towards denying entry is sufficient grounds to bar a person for life, all in a matter of seconds, with no oversight, no due process, nor any recourse to appeals nor review. It has become a situation of "little Hitlers" at the U.S. border.
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I wasn't the first Godwin-er in this thread. I was only following orders.
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The last time I checked US embassies principally do not dispense explanations for refusing visa applications denied for political reasons.
Not that I expect journalism at HuffPost, but most news organizations would at least make an attempt to contact the US. That's why every AP story like this includes the words "The _fill_in_the_blank_ could not be reached for comment." All we are getting is one guy's story. He could be correct, or he might not be correct. He may have been denied entry for political speech, or he might have just used the visa waver web site wrong.
Re:Remember all those times Bush blocked... (Score:5, Funny)
there is no right to enter the USA unless you are a Native American
There, fixed it for you.
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So you somehow prefer the first, second and third wave of immigration over subsequent ones?
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Maybe we shouldn't have laws that treat people differently depending upon where their great-to-the-tenth-power grandfathers lived.
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Call one generation 20 years (Historical ages of reproduction being younger than today), 20 generations gives us 20*20=400years.
Your numbers seem a little off. Even if you double the time between generations and err in the other way, it's still not even close to long enough.
Re:Remember all those times Bush blocked... (Score:4, Interesting)
Western Hemisphere? Hell, the entire human race should go back to Ethiopia where they came from.
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Wrong and Missing the Point (Score:5, Insightful)
there is no right to enter the USA unless you are a citizen
That's factually wrong - "resident aliens" to use the US governments description have a right to enter the US. This was the only reason I got a green card when living in the US because my job required travel to academic conferences and after one incident where I was almost denied entry with my J-1 visa simply because I was married to an American we applied for a green card because then it was impossible for them to refuse me entry and my job depended on being able to return.
However it also misses the point which is that your government thinks it is fine to exclude people from the US who disagree with its policies. If it is willing to do that to foreigners coming for rational academic debate how much longer do you think it will be before they find a way to silence your criticisms too?
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You don't have a right. You have permission.
Re:Wrong and Missing the Point (Score:5, Informative)
a country is soveriegn and its right to refuse access to any non-citizen is absolute.
this cannot really be argued, and i wont really argue against that concept.
however, this case isn't really about that.
this is man who has in the past been allowed to come and speak, indeed he was doing it again. and he happens to be critical of the NSA and its spying, and he has influence (apparently) in his home country, and so called on his governemtn to call the US on their NSA spying of the entire internet and say "wtf, eh?!"
so while the right to deny access is absolute, the reasons behind this particular case being denied at this particular time, when he hasnt been int he past, are very VERY suspect, and ultimately likely intended to silence dissent and criticism. and THAT is something i can and will argue against: the willful exclusion of dissenting voices, when many of those same voices already exist inside our borders, the willful exlcusion of an intelligent man here to speak on that very topic, etc. that isnt right, and is an attempt at damage control, at keeping the dissent within from spreading. that aint right.
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I would never travel to Afganistan, Iraq, North Korea, US and Iran.
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You have an inherent right to go where you please (without trespassing, or possibly even with) and free association. It's just that governments restrict that.
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You do realize that free speech is only for American citizens, right?
There is no free speech in America for non-Americans. Never has been.
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I misphrased what I said.
I meant to say that free speech WAS only for American citizens, and never was for anyone else.
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Also, putting aside the specific letter of the law, free speech is considered to be an inalienable right to all men. So, you would have to claim that non-Americans aren't human in order to deny them a human right.
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There is no free speech in America for non-Americans. Never has been.
In that case, surely you will concede that the country whose citizens love to call it "land of the free" would more correctly be called "land of the assholes".
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Not overzealous. Entitled. U.S. border personnel are judge, jury, and executioner all in one, with no means for victims to appeal nor seek any form of recourse. Thumbs up, thumbs down, that's all she wrote.