Retail Stores Plan Elaborate Ways To Track You 195
Velcroman1 writes "Retailers are experimenting with a variety of new ways to track you, so that when you pick up a shirt, you might get a message about the matching shorts. Or pick up golf shoes at a sports store and you see a discount for a new set of clubs. New technologies like magnetic field detection, Bluetooth Low Energy, sonic pulses, and even transmissions from the in-store lights can tell when you enter a store, where you go, and how you shop. Just last year, tracking was only accurate within 100 feet. Starting this year, they can track within a few feet. ByteLight makes the lighting tech, which transmits a unique signal that the camera in your phone can read. The store can then track your location within about 3 feet — and it's already in use at the Museum of Science in Boston."
Does anyone actually... (Score:2, Informative)
...leave Bluetooth turned on? Seems like a pointless way to run your battery down...
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Ahem. Geeks age too, or die trying. Bluetooth is a popular feature in hearing aids, although I don't use 'em yet, but will before 2050.
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I'll be 98 in 2050, I'm sure I'll need them. Or maybe not, dead men don't need hearing aids. As to the tracking, as long as it's on their own property, why not? They know what I buy at their store anyway, unless I pay in cash.
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Yes, what is this about cash not being tracked? When are we going to get out of the dead tree age with money and replace it with smart cars, like what is happening with license plates.
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When are we going to get out of the dead tree age with money and replace it with smart cars
Your future vision then :- bartering for everything with a car ! What will we use for loose change? Bikes? Toy cars?
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Good gawd, Rage Much?
You seriously can't be proposing a speaker phone as a replacement for a bluetooth!??
Why do you think everyone around you needs to hear BOTH sides of your pathetic the conversation about picking up a dozen eggs, and when are you going to clean up your room?
There is nothing wrong with bluetooth, its very handy, you can answer a phone call without taking the phone out of your pocket and exposing it to snatch-and-run artists, or having to do something as douche bag as turning on the speaker
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So
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So your rage against bluetooth while driving should be equally directed at using speakerphone while driving.
I honestly think using a phone in the car is a very bad idea no matter what, speakerphone or not. But I would think if you just crank the volume and set the phone down with the speaker facing you, there are two less likely things to cause a distraction/accident:
1. You can't drop it, because it's not in your hand, and
2. It won't fall out of your ear leaving you scrambling to catch it like a headset.
No doubt though, I fully agree that talking on a phone while driving is just dumb. I think it's equally dumb
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If you are about to hit something a passenger will shut up, or better yet, warn you. The person on the phone will not do either.
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If you are about to hit something a passenger will shut up, or better yet, warn you.
Depends on the passenger. You don't know my sister-in-law, who is totally oblivious of anything except what she is talking about - usually her shopping experiences from the previous day. I reckon she would still be talking about it after the crash.
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"your brain for some reason treats the two different" [citation needed]
"and the passenger has their own eyes to compensate or add attention to the road" This is generally only the case if the passenger happens to also regularly drive. or otherwise do not place any implicit trust on the driver.
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"and the passenger has their own eyes to compensate or add attention to the road" This is generally only the case if the passenger happens to also regularly drive. or otherwise do not place any implicit trust on the driver.
Children are an obvious example of this. I see mums driving along while remonstrating with thier children because they are fighting each other or something. I would not rate the concentration on the road very high for either driver or passengers in those scenarios.
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That's kind of my point.... I'd be willing to bet that there's a negligible statistically significant difference between talking with somebody who isn't in the car and talking with somebody who you can't see, and is otherwise not concerned with what else may be going on outside the vehicle.
For myself, although I realize that this evidence is anecdotal, I find no difference at all between using my car's speaker that connects wirelessly to my cell phone and talking to somebody next to me. I realize that
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It's not just the driver's brain treating a person on the phone and a passenger differently, it's also who the driver is talking to. On the phone, people expect immediate responses, while, as you say, a passenger can realize that maybe they shouldn't expect a response straight away. And so the person on the phone will be going, "are you still there?" because you've stopped talking to navigate around a large truck or whatever.
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I use Bluetooth headphones on the bus all the time - it's a lot more convenient than corded earpieces when the bus is jammed (which it usually is).
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I've done it a few times, the results were hilarious, if almost hitting pedestrians on the sidewalk is your version of hilarious.
Maybe it's the reefer, but I laughed for a long time about that. Thank you, sir!
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if almost hitting pedestrians on the sidewalk is your version of hilarious.
If only the cellphone hadn't been distracting you you could have scored enough points to enter the big race.
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I've done it a few times, the results were hilarious, if almost hitting pedestrians on the sidewalk is your version of hilarious.
you need to work on your aim. Play Carmageddon, GTA and similar a bit more.
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I also drive a manual, so I couldn't use a phone without it in the car even if I wanted to. I've done it a few times, the results were hilarious, if almost hitting pedestrians on the sidewalk is your version of hilarious.
Hey now, it's not that hard. Both of my cars are manual, but only one has Bluetooth. Hold the phone in your left hand (presuming you're in a LHD country) and plan your shifts to avoid needing them mid-corner (which is something you should be doing anyways.
That said the Bluetooth is a lot nicer. I don't talk and drive often (unlike apparently most I pay more attention to the road than the other party, requiring a lot of repeated information and usually resulting in them deciding to call back later). I'd
Shopping for clothes . . . (Score:5, Funny)
"Are you looking for something in particular, sir . . . ?"
"Yeah, you got any tinfoil clothes . . . ?"
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Unlikely (Score:3)
I find it unlikely that the Salvation army or Value Village would bother with this technology, let alone actually be able to offer clothes that match.
Just sayin....
Re:Unlikely (Score:4, Funny)
...let alone actually be able to offer clothes that match.
Clothes that match? I'm sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about.
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Well, let's start with the primer [garanimals.com], and once you've mastered the basics we'll move on to lesson #2. ;-)
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Over a decade ago on Slashdot there was a story about PDAs being given to waiters in restaurants to take orders and beam them directly to the kitchen. Someone made pretty much the same comment as you - it would never take off in low cost establishments, it wouldn't be worth giving them to minimum wage staff etc.
About five years ago I was in a cheap chain restaurant in Osaka and the young waitress took my order on a little PDA. A few second later the chef shouted "hai, katsu desu!" from the kitchen.
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You were in JAPAN, dude. What did you expect?
Minority Report (Score:5, Interesting)
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Any store like this would be one that I would not shop in. A Minority Report-type world makes me want to live off the grid.
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So where do you shop? Online? Where every retailer online is getting analytics data already? This is offline retailers gathering analytics.
And yes, online retailers ALL capture analytics. Even if you don't order anything, they're tracking what you looked at, what you clicked more information on, what you clicked add to cart, what else you looked for, etc.
No, when I say "you" I don't mea
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You are quite correct that all stores are collecting analytics on your movements
The problem is they have no clue as to what to do with them. Take amazon. They have a record of everything I have purchased from them for the last 15 years yet they still can't send me advertising that is relevant to my interests. Why?
if I buy something I generally don't need it again, exceptions are food and clothes. Clothes change styles so buying the same clothes 10 years later is worthless.
Styles, life, everything change
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Of course, this is only one metric that can be used for tracking. This ByteLight thing where the LEDs interact with your phone's camera requires an app, so it'
Yet another sensationalist summary (Score:5, Informative)
Yay, more hype and wank trying to whip up the /. crowd into a frenzy.
According to TFA (yeah, I read it, suck me) all the things listed here are features of a store-wide network that interfaces with an app on your smartphone. Yes, that's right, you have to manually add an app to your phone for these establishments in order for any of this 'tracking' to work. An app whose primary function is delivering ads and coupons to you.
Seriously, aren't things already bad enough with the whole NSA thing? Is fear mongering and just plain making shit up really necessary?
[captcha: congress]
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You must be new here - the hourly Two Minute Hate is a regular feature of /. nowadays.
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Because it's the only way to inflame the populace enough to do something.
Inflamed? Better go do shit.
How Annoying (Score:2)
If I found out a store used this, I'd go somewhere else. I do, actually, have choices.
Re:How Annoying (Score:4, Informative)
Based on what little info is on ByteLight's website - wouldn't you, as a customer, have to be running the store's app on your phone for this tracking to work? If so, just don't run the software.
The other tracking method they listed was wi-fi fingerprinting. Annoying, but not very accurate - and you can completely defeat it just by turning wi-fi off, I assume (something I usually do anyway).
That said, I'd still complain loudly to the management of any store I shop at if I found they were using the technology.
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That sounds reasonable until the company starts paying app developers to sneak the code into their apps as part of the advertising that makes it free. You could be walking through a store and receive what appears to be a text message with the coupons or whatever and not know it was from the store's app doing this.
what some of these free apps require in the form of access is amazing. A flashlight app that wants to read the phone state, contact information and location information is absurd but they are out t
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"Based on what little info is on ByteLight's website - wouldn't you, as a customer, have to be running the store's app on your phone for this tracking to work? If so, just don't run the software."
Well, that's a good point I suppose. But because of the prior use of rather sneaky tactics (using your ",insert store name here> points card" as a way to track your purchases for example), I do tend to assume it's not obviously an opt-in.
But if it's a store-specific app, which you have the option to not run, it might not be so bad. On the other hand, if it becomes "use this app to get better prices" in exchange for privacy, I'll just be pissed off again. It's coercion, which I do not approve. Mild coe
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You call it coercion, but others might simply call it entering into a mutually beneficial agreement with the store.
So long as it is optional and you have the choice not to lose your privacy, I don't see what your complaint is. Other shoppers, obviously, have the choice to give up their shopping habits to the store and get cheaper prices as a result. As we have seen from store loyalty cards, it is clearly a very attractive proposition to many people.
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If people are not fully informed, then they cannot validly be said to have consented. Instead they have been coerced.
I cant wait... (Score:2)
I can imagine shopping and having a paper clip pop up on my shiny new windows phone that states, "it looks like you are trying to copy queer eye for the straight guy. Would you like some help?"
Clippy .... (Score:2)
Do not want. (Score:2)
Do not want your creeping salespeople shadowing me.
Do not want your club card / loyalty program tracking me.
Really do not want your tracking app.
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Do not want your creeping salespeople shadowing me.
That's why I, and everybody else, gave up shopping at Best Buy. Their combination of annoying and incompetent was just too much.
Do not want your club card / loyalty program tracking me.
That made me switch from Walgreens to CVS. Walgreens' pricing on many items is more than doubled unless you sign up with their tracking card. At CVS, they'll scan a generic card at checkout and you get the "card" price.
Really do not want your tracking app.
Yes.
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I agree with you.
But like i said before: I run a shop. People WANT a salesperson creeping behind you. I think it makes them feel important. I've learned that you have to get up from your chair and start following them around, grabbing things from the shelves, and putting them in their hands. They buy a lot more when you do that.
Not all people are into the full self-service thing.
Designed to drive customers *away*, it seems (Score:2)
I have two rules when I go shopping, especially for clothes: I don't want to spend too much time on it, and I don't want to be asked if I can find "it". Yes, thank you, I'll use my eyes and I will ask you if absolutely necessary (and yes, I'm a man). Absolutely the last thing I need is the electronic equivalent of an overly eager employee store, especially since I can't tell it to bugger off.
Granted, not everybody shops like me. But image you are shopping and every 2 minutes an employee pops up next to you
Only visible to paired devices (Score:2)
My phone has this setting enabled. How is this little nuisance supposed to work in this case?
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My phone has this setting enabled. How is this little nuisance supposed to work in this case?
you think visibility means that the app _you_install_ couldn't talk to their bt devices? doing that link is trivial once you have agreed to install the shit.
Simple solution (Score:2)
Don't buy anything.
Visit a "frugal living" website and "tune in and drop out".
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Don't buy anything.
Grow your own crops and raise animals? The form of barter called "cash" works just as well if you don't want corporations stalking you.
Low tech solution... (Score:2)
Or, they could, you know, go low-tech and just have a sign by the shirts that says, "Matching Shorts - 20% Off". Or even better, put the shorts on the next table.
Want to *really* upsell me? Have a pretty girl at the door hand me a coupon for an extra 10% off any purchase of $25 or more at the register. Good for two days.
Even lower tech solution to increase sales (Score:2)
How about stocking all the sizes? Or maybe go crazy and even ad some sizes based on the new body types that exist in society. You know, tall or far or even tall AND fat people.
And maybe I am insane but how about stocking clothes for the season we are IN? I am male, I buy clothes when I need new ones... well... several months after I need new ones and the concept of shopping a season ahead is both alien and repulsive to me.
Or how about actually putting clothes for men in at least 1% of clothing stores? We
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I have a friend who worked in a shoe store. I asked him WHY is it so hard to find shoe sizes in my number (I'm 45 EUR/12 US). He gave me a very simple explanation:
ALL women are shoe size 36 or 37. And women that are 38 wear a 37 (I think that's about US size 6).
Men have an incredible distribution: ANY shoe size from 36 to 46. And men make up for less than 10% of sales.
So unless you're an incredibly busy shop, it's just impossible to stock all models in all sizes for men. And even if you do, it's amazingly d
Sensationalist Fox News Story (Score:5, Informative)
In theory, if you're downloading the retailer's app and using it in their store on your phone, you are looking for "something extra" from the retailer. What they're talking about here is the app acting as a salesperson, noting where you are in the store and possibly what you might be looking at to suggest items you might want. It's a gimmick, though. The app may know where you are within a few feet, but it doesn't know what item you have in your hand, so it can't properly suggest products based on what you're about to buy while you're still in the store. All it can do is say "I see you're by the polo shirt table... want two of these? We'll give you a coupon for two for $20." This is no more effective than putting a dead tree sign on the table that says "polo shirts: 2 for $20." Dead trees are cheaper, and everyone can see them, resulting in more sales than limiting your promotion to the <1% of customers who are walking through your store running your app and paying attention to it.
The way to make it somewhat more effective would be to tie it into what safeway is doing, where they keep track of everything you buy with your Safeway card and the highest prices you've historically been willing to pay for those items. Then they offer you a discount based on what they know your threshold is... and they offer the person 10 feet away from you a deeper discount on the same item because they see that she only buys the item when it's below a certain price. That systematic price discrimination is the greater concern, but the article doesn't mention that because the author doesn't get it.
Dog bites man (Score:2)
We're no longer the consumers. We're the consumables.
In the marketplace, in the workplace, at home and in public.
McDonalds "tested" a program where they pay their employees with gift cards. The number of internet service providers who do not require access to your data and your eyeballs is shrinking.
And the concentration of the wealth of the world in the hands of a small number of people continues to increase, already well past the point of sustainability.
And people who put up the smallest resistance to t
One store tracking is bad... (Score:2)
The worst would be if the cellphone company jus
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Tracking me in a store is one thing. But getting my ID and selling information about what products I looked at to another store crosses the line. And yes, I am more concerned about other businesses having that info than I am about the NSA having that info (though I am sure they are wanting to know who is looking at buying a lot of pressure cookers).
I have to bring my phone with me??? (Score:2)
Interesting Submitter (Score:5, Interesting)
Even more interesting is that stories submitted by MarkWhittington come up on Velcroman1's slashdot page as if they were Velcroman1's submissions... If you look at MarkWhittington's slashdot page [slashdot.org], all of his submissions link to his own articles or opinion pieces on voices.yahoo.com or examiner.com. ALL of them. And also no comments. MarkWhittington apparently contributes his own content to these sites as a freelancer and submits them to slashdot to drive traffic.
On page 2 [slashdot.org] of Velcroman1's slashdot profile Nerval's Lobster (nkolakowski@slashdotmedia.com, nkolakowski@geek.net) submissions start to show up. We've [slashdot.org] already [slashdot.org] established [slashdot.org] that Nerval's Lobster is Nick Kolakowski, a slashdot employee submitting paid content as user-submitted stories...
It would be interesting to see what percentage of published slashdot stories are genuinely submitted by people who have no financial interest in the submission.
here is the problem (Score:2)
Stores cant keep their stock in any fucking sort of order, havent been able to with a small army for the last 30 some odd years
now they expect you to pick up a shirt from section A-1 and flash you to shorts in B-2, really? HAVE YOU SHOPPED FOR CLOTHING IN YOUR ENTIRE LIFE?
sure its in some order, but for god's sake if a clothing store cant keep brand Y off the same rack as brand B and manage to match size numbers from tags to hangers do you seriously thing THIS is going to work, going to macy's is WORSE than
tracking good, advertisements bad (Score:2)
I have no trouble with being tracked, and with the environment being modified towards my likes. However I'm royally sick of constantly being offered shopping opportunities. Hey guys, if you're tracking my actions and my likes, you should notice that actively trying to sell me stuff makes me go away, and stop doing it so much.
which transmits a unique signal that the camera... (Score:2)
can pick up.
A intransparent Bag should help.
salespeople (Score:2)
>you pick up a shirt, you might get a message about the matching shorts.
That is what well trained sales people are for.
umm, old school (Score:2)
there could have always been a sign under the shirt to promote the shorts. pickup the shirt, see the sign. it was never hard.
but there's always been technology to do all of that stuff. it used to be called a salesperson. they've gone extinct in most stores these days. but if you have a fist of cash, and you walk up to a human with a name tag, you can still get all of that old-school service at no additional cost.
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And assuming that your phone does something with that signal useful to the retail store. I'm at a complete loss at what they're going at there.
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And assuming the phone isn't in your pocket or purse.
OTOH, if I want directions to the shoe department at some big box store, being able to follow an arrow
on my phone is probably more useful than asking some snooty clerk. But I'll be damned if I'm installing
one app per store, so they better get their act together and find one opt-in solution.
Re:Nothing to see here (Score:4, Insightful)
This is what Shopkick is. The users earn points called "kicks" for entering the participating stores. One app, many stores.
It's certainly not my cup of tea, but there are lots of people who voluntarily install these kinds of apps, especially when they get free stuff for doing so.
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OTOH, if I want directions to the shoe department at some big box store, being able to follow an arrow on my phone is probably more useful than asking some snooty clerk.
IKEA have that sorted for you already. Their stores are laid out like a linear FPS, where you must walk past every item in the place between entering and leaving. A sales guy in the Bristol (UK) IKEA told me it was nearly a mile walk through there. So keep walking, you will find your shit eventually.
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Small town kids are so cute.
Let me know when you save up enough money to visit the big city son, I'll take you to some stores you'll have to dial 911 just to get out of.
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I was at this mall in Buenos Aires. The shops are arranged in a labyrinth fashion! All the floors look the same, and it's hard to find the bathrooms. Once you get out of the bathroom, it's complicated to find your way back. Because stairs going up are accessed from one side of the mall, and the ones going down are accessed through another side. Yes. It's very possible to get lost even in a small shopping mall.
This other mall has different sets of levels you access through different sets of stairs. You can't
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Apparently they don't have Fire Marshalls in Argentina. I can't think of a single place in North America where that would be legal.
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There are emergency exits and all, but if you're looking for a store... good luck.
Also, casinos in Las Vegas are like that too. Designed to hide the exits so you can't even tell if it's day or night.
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Well you won't find a clock in Vegas or many windows, but you will see exit signs everywhere.
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And assuming that your phone does something with that signal useful to the retail store. I'm at a complete loss at what they're going at there.
well.. museums seem like the obvious only reasonable use case for the stuff.
extra info, multimedia etc links.
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How about ratings and reviews for products? DIY projects for tools at the home improvement store? Fashion tips? Behind the scenes making of info? Get Satisfaction links? Instruction manuals?
This could be useful.
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" which transmits a unique signal that the camera in your phone can read."
Assuming everyone has a smartphone...
Don't worry, it is only aimed at those iPhone fanbois who wave their phone around to show they've got one. Anyone sensible keeps their phone in their pocket, for all sorts of reasons.
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If they can't do their job properly to begin with--stocking the shelves with what people want--then what makes you think that tracking you will change anything? They are supposed to keep track of inventory, and if they just don't carry something, then that kind of is up to the customer to either look elsewhere or ask a manager if they can get it in. Automatic tracking will not solve anything... all it will do is violate your privacy even further. But hey, it's not like they don't have dozens or even hund
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Maybe if they did a little tracking of their customers, they would stock something in the sizes or styles this customer actually wants.
Last week I was trying to buy medium size trousers (US =pants) in the Bristol Cribbs Causeway BHS store. I need a medium size. I liked one style, but all they had was exra small and extra large. In other words their statistical distribution was the inverse of the expected population distribution.
They should not need tracking to realise how dumb this is; they need to grow a brain cell instead. I guess they stock up with a level distribution of sizes and then the medium sells out first.
Anyway, how w
That's not tracking, that's a crystal ball. (Score:2)
Hey [beep thwunk], looks like Lord Lardass is going to pay us a visit next weekend [whirr click]. Better tell the system to put a few XXXXXXFat's on the next truck to Blobville [clunk].
Re:Going to the leave the phone at home (Score:5, Insightful)
Shopping will be an event to put on facial makeup. Black lines for beneath the eyes and above the eyebrows (I think a tube of black lipstick will do nicely).
Why inconvenience yourself by leaving your phone at home, when you can just avoid those store that use this tech?
If I get a text message when I walk into a store I will never set foot in that store again. There are plenty of on-line
shops that sell the same thing. I don't like busybody sales clerks hovering over my shoulder while I shop and I sure
as hell don't expect to put up with some computer doing the same thing.
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That only works as long as there are stores that don't do this.. Inevitably this will become cheap enough that every store will have it. what then?
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Outlaw the practice as an invasion of privacy or DMCA violation?
Pass opt in laws?
Demand phones that won't reveal any personal information?
Apps that sense attempt and block them, or spoof random mac addresses?
Personal jammers?
Shop online?
Picket the store?
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1. good luck getting laws passed that actually protect citizen rights
2. ditto
3. ditto
4. good luck enforcing this consistently
5. might work.. better off just not carrying a phone, period.
6. that invites its own form of tracking...ala amazon's custom pricing schemes etc.
7. if you're actually successful enough to affect its bottom line, the cops get called and you get labeled a terrorist.
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How about this scenario.
You've browsed a store online. Added something to your cart but didn't buy. Now you are at the store and you get a message that the item you were looking at is available with a 15% discount.
Another: you go to a store and look at stuff then leave. Later at home you see an email with a discount code for that item at the online store.
The goal isn't to track you. The goal is to sell you something and keep you from buying it on Amazon from a grey market middle man who got ahold of a lot o
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I'll go with Amazon every time, as well as their so called gray market dumpers, thank you very much.
Any retailers making enough profit to fund the type of tracking you posit are gouging too deeply anyway.
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And I totally agree. Though I am considering keeping a Faraday bag in my car for shopping expeditions.
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Why does everyone love to throw out the Faraday solution for devices that have OFF switches?
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Name one phone where off is not in fact OFF.
That would be illegal in the US.
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I run a shop. Some customers expect you to be over their shoulders all the time, and they actually get offended if you don't. I usually greet them and tell them to look around, and ask if they have any doubts. They look lost, get scared, and go away without even saying goodbye. A while later you hear from them saying "the service there is really bad".
You can't please everybody.
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It takes about a week for the average "hired off the street" sales staff to learn which customers need hand holding and which don't.
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or leave your phone at home.. it is possible to survive without one for a few hours..
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Well, eventually your mom will get tired of doing all your shopping and you will have to go to a store sometime.
I suppose you could find a woman to love who will wait on you hand and foot in this regard but don't hold you breath on it. Most mature women will send you to the store so they don't have to go- even when it's for feminine hygiene products that would make you blush if you were caught buying by your friends.
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And then you buy the wrong ones, which means you're obviously playing around - they must be the kind that she uses.